FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

Mortelaro

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Your literally agreeing with me!!

I never said FFG were far right,but they are most deffo centre right??



Much like how shinners despite much protesting and house wailing by the media and those who fancy emselves as big shots here(all this is a prime example of cultural hedgemony btw),are in fact,just a left of centre,typical european party policywise

No FG are centre
So are SF
One is towards the more free market door to the right of centre,the other more towards the left of centre more government intervention part of centre

Being in the centre is a scale

Centre right and centre left are not short for being in the centre of the left or in the centre of the right
Centre right means you are on the more right part of centre
Centre left,the closer to left part of centre

Parties can and do move in that scale outside of centre sometimes directly into solely right or left
Corbyn's labour party were an example

RandomViewer

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

39 million owed to the tax payer? ?= irrelevant?

Wow, you've changed your tune about tax payers getting screwed ay!

Like you wax lyrical about here every day.

Unbelievable.

How much has Dinny got from the state in the last 9 years? FG crying about welfare payments when they actually pay out as much in corporate welfare.

Mortelaro

Mortelaro wrote: »

No FG are centre
So are SF
One is towards the more free market door to the right of centre,the other more towards the left of centre more government intervention part of centre

Being in the centre is a scale

Centre right and centre left are not short for being in the centre of the left or in the centre of the right
Centre right means you are on the more right part of centre
Centre left,the closer to left part of centre

Parties can and do move in that scale outside of centre sometimes directly into solely right or left
Corbyn's labour party were an example

Tbh,we'll have to agree to disagree,

To me centre right,is right wing and vice versa with centre left

Mortelaro

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Tbh,we'll have to agree to disagree,

To me centre right,is right wing and vice versa with centre left

[url] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre-right_politics[/url]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre-left_politics

Bishop of hope

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Tbh,we'll have to agree to disagree,

To me centre right,is right wing and vice versa with centre left

To me both moderates.
SF have evolved from the left and are getting closer to the center All the time.
FG and FF are more or less right of that, FG more so than FF, but none of them are clearly either one or tother.

Mad_maxx

PommieBast wrote: »

A very big if there. So far they have little to show for.



I gave the SDs 2nd or 3rd preference last election. If there is another election in the near future I will not be voting for any of the smaller parties.

the Soc Dems are not a party for adults , they are for virtue signalling dopey teenagers ( and PC journalists ) who have yet to understand real life
despite the media love , they are going nowhere , that and roisin shorthall has never been good for anything bar appearing on radio panels three times per week , professional waffler and "hurler on the ditch "

smurgen

Great to see simple Simon is finally getting serious about this pandemic thing after over 1500 deaths. What an absolute joke.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1263870461034840071?s=19

Mad_maxx

efanton wrote: »

Dont know to be perfectly honest, would like to think that SF will deliver.

I see it this way, They know they will only ever get one chance to prove themselves once they actually form a government. With that on their mind they are likely to deliver or try their very best. Not to do so will mean going back to the political margins of Irish politics

One thing is certain, we cant go on as a country the way we have. A country is not only an economy, and if your only measure of success is GDP or GNP, the you are doing something horribly wrong.

What I simply cant understand is why FG are hell bent on their neo-liberal thatcherite policies that have been shown to be a disaster in those countries that vigorously adopted that stance. I lived and worked in the UK. it was a great country to work in until Thatcher destroyed it. Margaret Thatcher absolutely decimated that country and look at the state it is in now. Politicians there cant even agree with other politicians in their own party. Now we have a Taoiseach who idolises Margaret Thatcher and Winston Churchill, ignoring the sorry fate that both ended up in.

Just look at the UK, first it was sell all the council houses, then allow property developers and landlords to go rampant, then cut spending on services especially the health service, then see the basic standard of living for most people in the country drop through the floor until many have to have two jobs just to get by, and many finding they have a better standard of living on social welfare that actually working for a living. What did they expect, if ordinary people with no professional qualification or trade cant survive on minimum wage its obvious they will refuse to work for a pittance that barely pays their rent and groceries.
That sounds all too familiar doesn't it. Ireland is currently just a decade or two behind the demise of the UK. But Leo and his cohort will plough on regardless just like Thatcher, and never have learnt a thing from the mistake of others.

I think FG have cooked there goose a little too much, and they will wither away just like the labour party. FF might survive if they get rid of those at the top and all those who oversaw the financial collapse of this country and swing back to the centre or left again but somehow I think they too are too blind to see what is happening as well and will never regain their strength.

I hope SF do get a chance to form a government. What this country needs now more than ever is a left of centre government or a realignment of what is considered nationally important for a government. If they do a good job, then they will continue to grow, if they fail then they will have only themselves to blame. But the one thing you have to admire about SF is that they are tenacious, they strive and thrive on achieving their goals. If they bring that tenacity to a government then there might be hope for this country yet. I am willing to give them my support and that chance.

what on earth had FG done under LEO which is remotely like the kind of path Thatcher pursued ?

ireland has never been remotely thatcherite , we are big government and then some

Mad_maxx

Deleted User wrote: »

Nearly sure,hes talking about the uk


Like,its generally accepted varadkar a fan of neo-lib.....look at the uk/us,that is where we are headed under them??


Do irish people,just not comprehend medium to long term.planning

(lads thinking housing sorted lomg term,because collaspe in tourism has seen air bnb back into rental.market,would suggest so)

accepted by who apart from the left wing media and people before profit ?

Mad_maxx

Mortelaro wrote: »

No FG are centre
So are SF
One is towards the more free market door to the right of centre,the other more towards the left of centre more government intervention part of centre

Being in the centre is a scale

Centre right and centre left are not short for being in the centre of the left or in the centre of the right
Centre right means you are on the more right part of centre
Centre left,the closer to left part of centre

Parties can and do move in that scale outside of centre sometimes directly into solely right or left
Corbyn's labour party were an example

FG are at best centrist

FF have always been centre left ( largely rural - think healy raes )populists and have never been more left than under MM , he is as socially liberal as anyone in labour or the greens and just as keen to spend , a party can have many rural conservatives on social issues while still being centre left

labour and the soc dems are middle class socialists

SF are far left , eoin o broin is a marxist

PBP are communist

we haven no centre right in this country comparable to the conservatives in the uk or the republicans in the usa or even the liberals in australia

ireland is undoubtably a centre left country, we love big government

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

FG are at best centrist

FF have always been centre left populists and have never been more left than under MM , he is as socially liberal as anyone in labour or the greens and just as keen to spend

labour and the soc dems are middle class socialists

SF are far left , eoin o broin is a marxist

PBP are communist

we haven no centre right in this country comparable to the conservatives in the uk or the republicans in the usa or even the liberals in australia

Just aswell noone takes the usa seriously,its a joke of a country,its leader is a testament to this


FFG by european standreds (last i checked,we were in the EU),would be regarded as centre right and shinners as centre left??

Mortelaro

[Deleted User] wrote: »

FFG by european standreds (last i checked,we were in the EU),would be regarded as centre right and shinners as centre left??

Yes
But both in the centre
Basically centre is a spectrum allowing a party to display some few aspects that you'd also see in either far left or far right parties but still be mostly centre

The wikipedia links in my last post actually explain it well
It's a common misconception but still a wrong view to read centre right as being in the centre of the right politically and centre left being in the centre of the left

Mortelaro

Mortelaro wrote: »

Yes
But both in the centre
Basically centre is a spectrum allowing a party to display some few aspects that you'd also see in either far left or far right parties but still be mostly centre

The wikipedia links in my last post actually explain it well
It's a common misconception but still a wrong view to read centre right as being in the centre of the right politically and centre left being in the centre of the left

Centre-left politics or center-left politics (American English), also referred to as moderate-left politics, are political views that lean to the left-wing on the left–right political spectrum, but closer to the centre than other left-wing politics.

???

Like its in your link provided...much like FFG arent mouth-breathing racists,but in my eyes are right wing

Similar to how shinners arent communist,nor particularly socialist in their policies,but are undoubtfully left wing (basically think.centrism only amounts to centre right tbh and centre left are demonised by media/establiahment -cultural hedgemony- )






Like the whole world is fcuked up,if you view it,through prism of a country that elected trump,what passes for left there,would be FFG here.

You have lads openly saying pbp are communist ffs,quite what hyperbole adds is beyond me :pac:


Though best phrase i seen was someone refered to eamonn ryan and the greens as marxist in trees

Mad_maxx

Deleted User wrote: »

Just aswell noone takes the usa seriously,its a joke of a country,its leader is a testament to this


FFG by european standreds (last i checked,we were in the EU),would be regarded as centre right and shinners as centre left??

who are you comparing them to in the EU ?

Mad_maxx

Deleted User wrote: »

???

Like its in your link provided...much like FFG arent mouth-breathing racists,but in my eyes are right wing

Similar to how shinners arent communist,nor particularly socialist in their policies,but are undoubtfully left wing (basically think.centrism only amounts to centre right tbh and centre left are demonised by media/establiahment -cultural hedgemony- )






Like the whole world is fcuked up,if you view it,through prism of a country that elected trump,what passes for left there,would be FFG here.

You have lads openly saying pbp are communist ffs,quite what hyperbole adds is beyond me :pac:


Though best phrase i seen was someone refered to eamonn ryan and the greens as marxist in trees

PBP believe in nationalising industry and property , what exactly is missing from my description of them ?

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

who are you comparing them to in the EU ?

Feast your eyes upon the groupings they align with,inside the euro parliment (this is the FG aligned grouping)

https://www.epp.eu/

Brendan Bendar

Mad_maxx wrote: »

PBP believe in nationalising industry and property , what exactly is missing from my description of them ?

They believe in nationalizing everything, having the state pay for everything, keeping themselves in jobs, bleeding anyone who either provides employment for others , or takes any risks,white, and finally making sure they accept no responsibility for anything themselves.

There is plenty more but that should be enough for openers.

Mad_maxx

Deleted User wrote: »

Feast your eyes upon the groupings they align with,inside the euro parliment (this is the FG aligned grouping)

https://www.epp.eu/

those groupings are extremely varied in terms of make up , they tell us very little


SF sit with the communists by the way

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

those groupings are extremely varied in terms of make up , they tell us very little


SF sit with the communists by the way

You asked for comparison,this it

There is nothing particularly communist about this group imo

https://www.guengl.eu/about-the-group/

Mortelaro

[Deleted User] wrote: »

???

Like its in your link provided...much like FFG arent mouth-breathing racists,but in my eyes are right wing

Similar to how shinners arent communist,nor particularly socialist in their policies,but are undoubtfully left wing (basically think.centrism only amounts to centre right tbh and centre left are demonised by media/establiahment -cultural hedgemony- )






Like the whole world is fcuked up,if you view it,through prism of a country that elected trump,what passes for left there,would be FFG here.

You have lads openly saying pbp are communist ffs,quite what hyperbole adds is beyond me :pac:


Though best phrase i seen was someone refered to eamonn ryan and the greens as marxist in trees

What are you asking?
Yes centre left lean to the left in the centre spectrum and centre right lean to the right
But they are both in the centre
Corbyn's labour is an example of a party that left the centre to position on the left in their last election
SF is centre left
Fg is centre right
That's what I said

Mad_maxx

Mortelaro wrote: »

What are you asking?
Yes centre left lean to the left in the centre spectrum and centre right lean to the right
But they are both in the centre
Corbyn's labour is an example of a party that left the centre to position on the left in their last election
SF is centre left
Fg is centre right
That's what I said

SF are further to the left of corbyns labour in the uk

Mortelaro

Mad_maxx wrote: »

SF are further to the left of corbyns labour in the uk

I don't think they are
Corbyn's 2019 manifesto was radically the most left wing since Foot including nationalising BT and the rail companies

Mad_maxx

Mortelaro wrote: »

I don't think they are
Corbyn's 2019 manifesto was radically the most left wing since Foot including nationalising BT and the rail companies

ireland is much more left wing than the uk

Mortelaro

Mad_maxx wrote: »

ireland is much more left wing than the uk

I don't think so
We didn't privatise some of our utilities
We invented a fudge called semi state bodies
Ergo parties here aren't calling for as much nationalisation
PBP and independents for change are full left wing
I'd much prefer SF's manifesto if it was a straight choice
Arguably social democrats and labour are somewhat to the left of centre but not centre left

Mortelaro

Mortelaro wrote: »

What are you asking?
Yes centre left lean to the left in the centre spectrum and centre right lean to the right
But they are both in the centre
Corbyn's labour is an example of a party that left the centre to position on the left in their last election
SF is centre left
Fg is centre right
That's what I said

Either yous are left or right (or both)to varying degrees


Like im agreeing with yous....shinners are left,FFG are right leaning attach the word centre to it,if you want,just seems pointless to me


When you attach centre to both,it cancels each other out?

Mortelaro

Mortelaro wrote: »

I don't think so
We didn't privatise some of our utilities
We invented a fudge called semi state bodies
Ergo parties here aren't calling for as much nationalisation
PBP and independents for change are full left wing
I'd much prefer SF's manifesto if it was a straight choice
Arguably social democrats and labour are somewhat to the left of centre but not centre left

Your dealing with a country,that is building vital national infrastructure and handing ownership/running of it to private business?


We can hand also BAM a effective blank chequebook to build most expensive hospital in the world,

while our political leaders openly specualte those who are getting welfare to stay home and stop spread of a highly contagious virus are defrauding the state

Mad_maxx

Mortelaro wrote: »

I don't think so
We didn't privatise some of our utilities
We invented a fudge called semi state bodies
Ergo parties here aren't calling for as much nationalisation
PBP and independents for change are full left wing
I'd much prefer SF's manifesto if it was a straight choice
Arguably social democrats and labour are somewhat to the left of centre but not centre left

How are the soc dems and labour anything but centre left?

Edgware

smurgen wrote: »

Great to see simple Simon is finally getting serious about this pandemic thing after over 1500 deaths. What an absolute joke.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1263870461034840071?s=19

Its about time something was done about the travellers

Paddygreen

Edgware wrote: »

Its about time something was done about the travellers

Absolutely, but I think they should quarantine settled people too.

Mortelaro

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Your dealing with a country,that is building vital national infrastructure and handing ownership/running of it to private business?

The national broadband plan? I don't care who owns it
I'd prefer its built now and benefiting the 500,000 homes with slow internet

We can hand also BAM a effective blank chequebook to build most expensive hospital in the world,

At least it's being built
We could have prevaricated endlessly like the way we were and never have one

while our political leaders openly specualte those who are getting welfare to stay home and stop spread of a highly contagious virus are defrauding the state

Honestly, there are people riding the pandemic payments
They are doing us a disservice as we will all pay for that
Arguably though,nothing should be done about it,the payments will soon cease anyway ,job done