FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

FrancieBrady

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What it shows is Mary Lou isn’t a leader

Sinn Fein “won “ the election according to Sinn Fein and its supporters

And they did in terms of finishing with the highest vote. Why would you try to misrepresent it any other way?

and have ended up with nothing, even the few parties that would have joined with them have been dumped while Mary Lou was too busy running after FF and Fg, PR disaster

Maybe in the North the mud slinging works but you can start to see people in Rep have got sick of it every quickly. Yes you will have the few but in majority give it another few weeks and they will soon see what it is

If this was any other party, they would be sacking Mary Lou in morning, two elections now she has made a balls of, but Sinn Fein have who to take over?

The only poll/data we have says that FF's vote has plummeted...not by a few % points either...fecking freefall. But SF ...something... something.

SF put themselves into the driving seat, they cannot lose here and are more than happy to play the long game in opposition like Leo and his merry FGers were.

James Brown

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What it shows is Mary Lou isn’t a leader

Sinn Fein “won “ the election according to Sinn Fein and its supporters and have ended up with nothing, even the few parties that would have joined with them have been dumped while Mary Lou was too busy running after FF and Fg, PR disaster

Maybe in the North the mud slinging works but you can start to see people in Rep have got sick of it every quickly. Yes you will have the few but in majority give it another few weeks and they will soon see what it is

If this was any other party, they would be sacking Mary Lou in morning, two elections now she has made a balls of, but Sinn Fein have who to take over?

So you think Varadkar should be shown the door? I mean compared to Leo, Mary Lou is on the up seat wise.
And let's not forget Leo's taking the ball and going home moment of relishing going into opposition. Now playing second fiddle to FF.

Shefwedfan

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And they did in terms of finishing with the highest vote. Why would you try to misrepresent it any other way?



The only poll/data we have says that FF's vote has plummeted...not by a few % points either...fecking freefall. But SF ...something... something.

SF put themselves into the driving seat, they cannot lose here and are more than happy to play the long game in opposition like Leo and his merry FGers were.

In terms of power in Ireland, you have
FF
FG
Greens
DUP
Sinn Fein


Sinn Fein have lost everything. They "won" the election and a party with 7% of the vote now have more power. Seemingly they can do nothing in Northern Ireland because they are bullied by DUP.



Anyone seeing this as a win need to take a good hard look at themselves. I know a few years of looking at Violet Anne and her like, poor old Mary Lou will be cursing the day she switched from FF


P.S. the only poll that counts is the one in Feb, seems like FF/FG/Green won it

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

So you think Varadkar should be shown the door? I mean compared to Leo, Mary Lou is on the up seat wise.

Why would Varadkar? he has FG at the table of power even after a poor election.

As Francie loves those polls, I don't count them myself but seeing as he brought it up. What was the result for FG in the last one?

FrancieBrady

Shefwedfan wrote: »

In terms of power in Ireland, you have
FF
FG
Greens
DUP
Sinn Fein


Sinn Fein have lost everything. They "won" the election and a party with 7% of the vote now have more power. Seemingly they can do nothing in Northern Ireland because they are bullied by DUP.



Anyone seeing this as a win need to take a good hard look at themselves. I know a few years of looking at Violet Anne and her like, poor old Mary Lou will be cursing the day she switched from FF


P.S. the only poll that counts is the one in Feb, seems like FF/FG/Green won it

The party that gets the highest vote...'wins' the election, the same as a football team that gets the highest score.

It is not untrue to say that.

'Lost everything'...what the hell is that about? Sure this government might not last a year.

The party that needs to worry going into this coalition is the party that said they would never do it..FF. Down to 12% in the polls and in freefall from before an election they thought they were gonna get 50 seats out of.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

No matter how many times it is demonstrated on here that the facts show that Ireland is one of the least corrupt countries in the world as recorded by all of the NGOs who monitor this, we still get these type of conspiracy-theory like posts that somehow proclaim that Ireland is rife with this.

Ireland ranks 18th on this list, way ahead of countries like Greece, Cuba and Venezuela, all held up as exemplars by those who criticise Ireland.

https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2019/results/table

It is also a fact that there are more people who are defrauding social welfare, defrauding revenue, refusing to pay their local authority rent, etc than who are benefitting from cronyism and bribery.

Of course, don't let these facts interfere with the uninformed rants that make these boards so entertaining.

Your nothing to see here spin is always fun.
We've gone from my suggesting it happens and we should be vigilant towards it, to your misrepresentation to create your own narrative.
Yes Blanch, others not in office do it too.
Cronyism need not be illegal Blanch. FG look after their own after all.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And they did in terms of finishing with the highest vote. Why would you try to misrepresent it any other way?

Let's have a look at this claim more closely.

According to your criteria, Fianna Fail won the 1973 general election

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Irish_general_election

Funnily enough, they also won the 1954 general election

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Irish_general_election

And they even won the 1948 general election

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Irish_general_election

More recently, they also won the November 1982 general election

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_1982_Irish_general_election

As well as the 1981 general election just before that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_Irish_general_election

All in all, it appears that there are at least five general elections that Fianna Fail won, in the same way that Sinn Fein won the most recent election. In every single case that I have highlighted, the result was considered a failure for Fianna Fail. It is puzzling therefore that you consider the most recent election a success for Sinn Fein.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

Your nothing to see here spin is always fun.
We've gone from my suggesting it happens and we should be vigilant towards it, to your misrepresentation to create your own narrative.
Yes Blanch, others not in office do it too.
Cronyism need not be illegal Blanch. FG look after their own after all.

Can you give me a good example of legal cronyism in Ireland?

James Brown

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Why would Varadkar? he has FG at the table of power even after a poor election.

As Francie loves those polls, I don't count them myself but seeing as he brought it up. What was the result for FG in the last one?

I hope you are joking and not so ill-informed.
SF keep increasing their share of seats. SF don't have the numbers.
FG lost seats.
FG are looking to be a junior partner to MM's FF, yes, very shrewdly played. Just shows me how desperate FG are for power, so much for the well being of the country.
If SF gaining seats but not being able to form a government means MLM should go, Why not Leo who lost seats and is now needing FF of all parties?
Ignoring facts repeatedly spelled out to continue spinning party political yarns seems to be a pro FG trait on here.

Shefwedfan

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The party that gets the highest vote...'wins' the election, the same as a football team that gets the highest score.

It is not untrue to say that.

'Lost everything'...what the hell is that about? Sure this government might not last a year.

The party that needs to worry going into this coalition is the party that said they would never do it..FF. Down to 12% in the polls and in freefall from before an election they thought they were gonna get 50 seats out of.

No the party with the most seats wins the election.

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

I hope you are joking and not so ill-informed.
SF keep increasing their share of seats. SF don't have the numbers.
FG lost seats.
FG are looking to be a junior partner to MM's FF, yes, very shrewdly played. Just shows me how desperate FG are for power, so much for the well being of the country.
If SF gaining seats but not being able to form a government means MLM should go, Why not Leo who lost seats and is now needing FF of all parties?
Ignoring facts repeatedly spelled out to continue spinning party political yarns seems to be a pro FG trait on here.

Sinn Fein prior to election, in opposition

Sinn Fein after election, in opposition.

If you don't understand that in two elections now, local and general, Mary Lou has made a complete mess then no hope. In the general, she had no idea what was going on so reduced the politicians she ran so ended up with not enough. Then to compound the error has failed to negotiate with a single party.

This on the back of a local election which really was a disaster for Sinn Fein.

Not sure what the positive spin on this is, maybe you can put one but I certainly cannot see it.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Can you give me a good example of legal cronyism in Ireland?

I have not got all day....but:

Bertie Ahern added the name of his former girlfriend to a State board after the list had been announced by Enterprise Minister Micheal Martin.

Mr Kenny said he could not say if Arts Minister Heather Humphries knew John McNulty was a nominee for the upper house when he was controversially appointed to IMMA – a position he resigned from within the hour.

Hilary Quinlan lost Waterford city seat last May and has since been hired as a ministerial driver by Minister of State at the Department of the Environment Paudie Coffey.

New Senator: Giving Enda's daughter a J1 job in Chicago 'not cronyism'

Sitserv deal, (still under investigation).

I mean that's off the top of my head. Can you just skip to your point, if you have one and stop with the games?

FrancieBrady

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Sinn Fein prior to election, in oppostion


Sinn Fein after election, in oppostion.

And growing the party.

Anyone would think listening to you that politics was all over. It isn't. You are witnessing the final throw of the dice of the power swap party's - a desparate coalition which will only enhance SF's chances next time out. You could even see a majority single party government again, because FG and FF and the Greens have all proven how much of a mess they can make.

Quotations

Shefwedfan wrote: »

In terms of power in Ireland, you have
FF
FG
Greens
DUP
Sinn Fein


Sinn Fein have lost everything. They "won" the election and a party with 7% of the vote now have more power. Seemingly they can do nothing in Northern Ireland because they are bullied by DUP.



Anyone seeing this as a win need to take a good hard look at themselves. I know a few years of looking at Violet Anne and her like, poor old Mary Lou will be cursing the day she switched from FF


P.S. the only poll that counts is the one in Feb, seems like FF/FG/Green won it

The largest vote on this island (north and south) goes to Sinn Fein by a long, long way.

This is the sole reason both FFG have zero interest in a boarder pole or re-uniting the island.

The slander FFG have engaged in for the past 50+ years against the people they abandoned in parts of Ulster because they had the audacity to defend themselves against British state terrorism will see FFG out of power for a very long time when the inevitable does happen. Everyone knows it. This is why their the FFG billionaire backers, the asset strippers of the state, are trying to give it one final hurrah before there all sent on their way.

Denis, Larry, Michael 'cecil rhodes' O'L, pack up you bags, you're done. No more asset stripping for you or your FFG failures.

The people have voted for change and its coming.

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

I have not got all day....but:

Bertie Ahern added the name of his former girlfriend to a State board after the list had been announced by Enterprise Minister Micheal Martin.

Hilary Quinlan lost Waterford city seat last May and has since been hired as a ministerial driver by Minister of State at the Department of the Environment Paudie Coffey.

Sitserv deal, (still under investigation).

I mean that's off the top of my head. Can you just skip to your point, if you have one and stop with the games?

You don't like people to go on about IRA and North and Sinn Fein links but you think it is ok to go on about Bertie who has left politics now how long?



So which is it?

Shefwedfan

Quotations wrote: »

The largest vote on this island (north and south) goes to Sinn Fein by a long, long way.

This is the sole reason both FFG have zero interest in a boarder pole or re-uniting the island.

The slander FFG have engaged in for the past 50+ years against the people they abandoned in parts of Ulster because they had the audacity to defend themselves against British state terrorism will see FFG out of power for a very long time when the inevitable does happen. Everyone knows it. This is why their the FFG billionaire backers, the asset strippers of the state, are trying to give it one final hurrah before there all sent on their way.

Denis, Larry, Michael 'cecil rhodes' O'L, pack up you bags, you're done. No more asset stripping for you or your FFG failures.

The people have voted for change and its coming.

Sinn Fein have zero power across the whole of Ireland but you are saying they have the largest vote? how does that work?

Or just another display of poor management by Mary Lou?

Yes some people voted for change. 70% or more didn't. Do we just forget these people?

James Brown

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You don't like people to go on about IRA and North and Sinn Fein links but you think it is ok to go on about Bertie who has left politics now how long?

So which is it?

That's more blarney from you. In context is always welcome.
I was asked for examples in Ireland.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

...
Not sure what the positive spin on this is, maybe you can put one but I certainly cannot see it.

IMO, you are raking over well covered ground to move the conversation from FG to SF. Count me out, it's not genuine IMO and boring to me.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Let's have a look at this claim more closely.

According to your criteria, Fianna Fail won the 1973 general election

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Irish_general_election

Funnily enough, they also won the 1954 general election

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Irish_general_election

And they even won the 1948 general election

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Irish_general_election

More recently, they also won the November 1982 general election

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_1982_Irish_general_election

As well as the 1981 general election just before that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_Irish_general_election

All in all, it appears that there are at least five general elections that Fianna Fail won, in the same way that Sinn Fein won the most recent election. In every single case that I have highlighted, the result was considered a failure for Fianna Fail. It is puzzling therefore that you consider the most recent election a success for Sinn Fein.

Failure to form a government is an entirely different thing. Don't start the silly buggers again.
FG accepted the loss and were heading to opposition in a huff. Then they saw an opportunity to capitalise and they did. The electorate have no say in that, they have to sit back and watch.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Then they saw an opportunity to capitalise and they did.

As a last resort

Quotations

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Sinn Fein have zero power across the whole of Ireland but you are saying they have the largest vote? how does that work?

Or just another display of poor management by Mary Lou?

Yes some people voted for change. 70% or more didn't. Do we just forget these people?

Add the Sinn Fein vote, north and south (imaginary borders etc) together, then do the same for ff, fg, dup et al. Its not complicated. They pull more votes on the island 3:1. Hence some parties delight in imaginary borders.

Yeah poor management......

Where are you pulling this 70% didn't nonsense from? FG, the previous government + friends(indies) , got less than 35% of the vote at the most recent election. Do you understand maths?

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

I have not got all day....but:

Bertie Ahern added the name of his former girlfriend to a State board after the list had been announced by Enterprise Minister Micheal Martin.

The arrangements for the filling of positions on State boards was changed by the Fine Gael/Labour government a few years ago, and this situation can no longer happen.

https://www.publicjobs.ie/restapi/documents/Guidelines_on_Appointments_to_State_Boards_Jan2015.pdf

Bowie wrote: »

Mr Kenny said he could not say if Arts Minister Heather Humphries knew John McNulty was a nominee for the upper house when he was controversially appointed to IMMA – a position he resigned from within the hour.

See above, this has been corrected.

Bowie wrote: »

Hilary Quinlan lost Waterford city seat last May and has since been hired as a ministerial driver by Minister of State at the Department of the Environment Paudie Coffey.

Didn't know this, but that is probably one area where there has to be an exception. If you can't trust your driver, you can't do your work in the car. Don't have a problem with that.

Have much more of a problem with Sinn Fein hiring party lackeys to work in Leinster House.

Bowie wrote: »

New Senator: Giving Enda's daughter a J1 job in Chicago 'not cronyism'

Sorry, what?

Bowie wrote: »

Sitserv deal, (still under investigation).

I mean that's off the top of my head. Can you just skip to your point, if you have one and stop with the games?

You have mentioned Siteserv time and again on here, yet I have asked you many many times to explain what problem you have with the procurement process and what complaint you have made to the European Commission about it. As always, the answer has been blank. If there was something wrong with the Siteserv deal, then it wasn't legal. But that doesn't stop you whinging about it all the time.

So basically, my point is that there isn't much if any legal cronyism in Ireland, neither is there much corruption. Of course we must keep our guard up, but there is no need for little boys to be crying wolf everything they see the big bad Denis O'Brien wolf in the news.

Brendan Bendar

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

So they have not done an excellent job if the Nursing Homes and Meat Factory's are still in trouble. They still havnt even got them all under control yet

Have they done a good job getting childcare sorted for front line workers?

You stated "Our excellent control of the pandemic must seriously disappoint you"

We have no controlled it in either the above settings, so no we have not controlled it excellently.

He didn’t, I did. And it still stands.

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Failure to form a government is an entirely different thing. Don't start the silly buggers again.
FG accepted the loss and were heading to opposition in a huff. Then they saw an opportunity to capitalise and they did. The electorate have no say in that, they have to sit back and watch.

What opportunity was that Francie???

Do explain.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

The arrangements for the filling of positions on State boards was changed by the Fine Gael/Labour government a few years ago, and this situation can no longer happen.

https://www.publicjobs.ie/restapi/documents/Guidelines_on_Appointments_to_State_Boards_Jan2015.pdf



See above, this has been corrected.

Didn't know this, but that is probably one area where there has to be an exception. If you can't trust your driver, you can't do your work in the car. Don't have a problem with that.

So what? I gave examples. Being vigilant to cronyism is more a civic duty than being worthy of some tin foil hat sneer.

You did. He's the same chap said FF had us practically eating out of bins and how FG looks after it's own. I've mentioned it to you a number of times. You don't recall ever discussing Irish Water and the personal driver getting an appointment to the board? Maybe you need reevaluate a few opinions on things so.

blanch152 wrote: »

Have much more of a problem with Sinn Fein hiring party lackeys to work in Leinster House.

All parties hire family members and friends. Not excusing it, telling you it exists. You asked for legal examples, you got them.

blanch152 wrote: »

Sorry, what?


You have mentioned Siteserv time and again on here, yet I have asked you many many times to explain what problem you have with the procurement process and what complaint you have made to the European Commission about it. As always, the answer has been blank. If there was something wrong with the Siteserv deal, then it wasn't legal. But that doesn't stop you whinging about it all the time.

So basically, my point is that there isn't much if any legal cronyism in Ireland, neither is there much corruption. Of course we must keep our guard up, but there is no need for little boys to be crying wolf everything they see the big bad Denis O'Brien wolf in the news.

It's about a newly appointed senator sorted Enda Kenny's daughter with a J1. Title gives it away.

Very dishonest of you. It's been discussed and explained how the tax payer got a bad deal and the company just sold at a loss got a state contract. It's worthy of investigation and is being investigated. There's a reason we should be suspicions anytime FG do a deal for Mr. O'Brien. The tax payer likely loses out.
On the one hand we should keep our guard up, but if FG are under suspicion such vigilance is to be ridiculed, got it.

There has been cronyism, there will always be. The levels will vary.

Shefwedfan

Quotations wrote: »

Add the Sinn Fein vote, north and south (imaginary borders etc) together, then do the same for ff, fg, dup et al. Its not complicated. They pull more votes on the island 3:1. Hence some parties delight in imaginary borders.

Yeah poor management......

Where are you pulling this 70% didn't nonsense from? FG, the previous government + friends(indies) , got less than 35% of the vote at the most recent election. Do you understand maths?

Ahh maths, what percentage voted for Sinn Fein? What percentage didn’t?

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

So what? I gave examples. Being vigilant to cronyism is more a civic duty than being worthy of some tin foil hat sneer.

You did. He's the same chap said FF had us practically eating out of bins and how FG looks after it's own. I've mentioned it to you a number of times. You don't recall ever discussing Irish Water and the personal driver getting an appointment to the board? Maybe you need reevaluate a few opinions on things so.



All parties hire family members and friends. Not excusing it, telling you it exists. You asked for legal examples, you got them.



It's about a newly appointed senator sorted Enda Kenny's daughter with a J1. Title gives it away.

Very dishonest of you. It's been discussed and explained how the tax payer got a bad deal and the company just sold at a loss got a state contract. It's worthy of investigation and is being investigated. There's a reason we should be suspicions anytime FG do a deal for Mr. O'Brien. The tax payer likely loses out.
On the one hand we should keep our guard up, but if FG are under suspicion such vigilance is to be ridiculed, got it.

There has been cronyism, there will always be. The levels will vary.

I went on a J1, am I part of the cronyism?

Quotations

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ahh maths, what percentage voted for Sinn Fein? What percentage didn’t?

A simple no would suffice. You don't understand maths.

More people voted for change in the last election than those that voted status quo. Its a fact. Are you going to hold voters responsible for FF and FG and the greens braking their promise to the voter post election?

Lying to the electorate. Is this your dodgy logic?

Most first preference votes went to SF. What their final vote share was I don;t know because most of them qualified first count across the country.

FF and FG got many, many vote transfers on the 5th, 6th, 10th recount ect so maybe this is clouding the issue. Some didn't even reach the quota; Simon Harris for example. Could not even get 11,000 votes out of his constituency. Absurd really that Leo has rewarded such a failure with continuity. Particularly when he was the one who brought down the government.

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

What opportunity was that Francie???

Do explain.

The bounce from handling the pandemic well. It surprised everyone even if they have made characteristic mistakes.

Quotations

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The bounce from handling the pandemic well

Well? Smokes and mirrors. 8th worst per million in the world. One higher than France, two below Italy I think the WHO chart states.

Here's a question; Remove all the unnecessary care home deaths from the official figures and where would (should*) Ireland be?

(*If there was a competent government and administration instead of the legacy of FFG croyism?)

Simon and Leo threw the most vulnerable under the bus on day one. Everyone and their dog knew what was coming weeks in advance and they let it happen. Shame.

smurgen

Quotations wrote: »

Well? Smokes and mirrors. 8th worst per million in the world. One higher than France, two below Italy I think the WHO chart states.

Here's a question; Remove all the unnecessary care home deaths from the official figures and where would (should*) Ireland be?

(*If there was a competent government and administration instead of the legacy of FFG croyism?)

Simon and Leo threw the most vulnerable under the bus on day one. Everyone and their dog knew what was coming weeks in advance and they let it happen. Shame.

Don't you understand? Those homes were privately ran and you know that FG refuses to interfere with privately run organisations at anytime! Those old people had to die.