FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

NovemberWren

Bowie wrote: »

You'd need post some links.
I just recall the furor over nurses allegedly taking too many holidays and being paid too much, it being disputed, then them being the salt of the earth and now it seems their time in the sun is over? We did have HSE workers with the blessing of their unions volunteering in private hospitals.
We did learn nothing for Covid number 19 it seems. If we return to business as usual we have failed ourselves.

yep. it was the "3,000" that flustered me and the words after that i'm a bit hazy about. it Definitely was in a discussion about 'nursing'. as leeway, could it be maybe that that person was referencing [also/and including] some Admin. staff? I just hope some programme presents the real situation as it pertained.

I do reckon though, that many public sector Admin. people worked from home, on full pay, though this may have been reading e-mails, i.e. were e-mails ever answered? Although, if library staff worked from home, how would that affect their pay.

NovemberWren

Hubertj wrote: »

What about the SF TD that broke the travel limit to attend a funeral?

and no votes in that.

FrancieBrady

Hubertj wrote: »

What about the SF TD that broke the travel limit to attend a funeral?

They shouldn't have done it.

Leonard Hofstadter

Hubertj wrote: »

There are too many civilised people in this country for the likes of SF to have a majority.

As we saw in the recent election, that argument holds no sway.

Watch as the Greens, aided and abetted by their amigos in FF and FG decide to knock the stuffing out of rural Ireland with no roads, carbon taxes and all the other utter drivel and horse manure.

For those who still find Sinn Féin morally repugnant, there are always Labour, the Social Democrats and rural independent TDs to take their place instead.

The leadership of FG have made a MASSIVE mistake in agreeing to this. They have gifted Mary Lou the office of an Taoiseach at a time of her choosing (and it will be, because with a majority of just four, this Government won't last kissing time). I didn't realise that those at the top of Fine Gael were so morally bereft of principles like this. I thought the selling of one's soul out for power and privilege was the key difference between FF and FG - the latter is supposed to be an economically competent and policy principled version of the former.

It's one thing pissing off your political opponents and those on the left and far-left, it's quite another to single-handedly alienate your own voters and those on the centre and centre right, i.e. middle Ireland and rural Ireland (you know, the people that usually bother to vote and can usually be relied on to vote for FG or FF).

Nobody who claims to espouse Fine Gael (or even Fianna Fáil) values could, in all conscience, vote for this utter insanity.

There isn't ONE Fine Gael policy in here if the Programme for Government if is as reported in the media today. Not one.

Don't tell me, as the Irish Times has kindly spun it for Fine Gael - that a 'jobs plan' is a FG achievement - sure even the Shinners and Greens think we need one of those after this crisis. Or that Sláintecare is being delivered - sure all the political parties agree on that.

There's some empty platitudes about the deficit and the pension age - but that's all they are. Whether or not political parties like it, the markets will intervene anyway if we do excess borrowing and that would force even the Shinners to (eventually) cut the country's cloth to suit its measure.

There's no tax cuts or anything Fine Gael like about this agreement at all.

I hope with every fibre of my being that there are enough sane people in the party to put a stop to it before agreeing to sign the party's death warrant.

JohnnyFlash

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

As we saw in the recent election, that argument holds no sway.

Watch as the Greens, aided and abetted by their amigos in FF and FG decide to knock the stuffing out of rural Ireland with no roads, carbon taxes and all the other utter drivel and horse manure.

For those who still find Sinn Féin morally repugnant, there are always Labour, the Social Democrats and rural independent TDs to take their place instead.

The leadership of FG have made a MASSIVE mistake in agreeing to this. They have gifted Mary Lou the office of an Taoiseach at a time of her choosing (and it will be, because with a majority of just four, this Government won't last kissing time). I didn't realise that those at the top of Fine Gael were so morally bereft like this. I thought the selling of one's soul out for power and privilege was the key difference between FF and FG - the latter is supposed to be an economically competent and policy principled version of the former.

It's one thing pissing your political opponents and those on the left and far-left, it's quite another to single-handedly alienate your own voters and those on the centre and centre right, i.e. middle Ireland and rural Ireland (you know, the people that usually bother to vote and can usually be relied on to vote for FG or FF).

Nobody who claims to espouse Fine Gael (or even Fianna Fáil) values could, in all conscience, vote for this utter insanity.

There isn't ONE Fine Gael policy in here if the Programme for Government if is as reported in the media today. Not one.

Don't tell me, as the Irish Times has kindly spun it for Fine Gael - that a 'jobs plan' is a FG achievement - sure even the Shinners and Greens think we need one of those after this crisis. Or that Sláintecare is being delivered - sure all the political parties agree on that.

There's some empty platitudes about the deficit and the pension age - but that's all they are. Whether or not political parties like it, the markets will intervene anyway if we do excess borrowing and that would force even the Shinners to (eventually) cut the country's cloth to suit its measure.

There's no tax cuts or anything Fine Gael like about this agreement at all.

I hope with every fibre of my being that there are enough sane people in the party to put a stop to it before agreeing to sign the party's death warrant.

Twill be short and difficult, dude.



You'd nearly let the Shinners in for a while to give them a dose of the art of realpolitik. The best cure for nationalism and populism is a bit of government.



The Minister for Justice role would be what would worry you.

FrancieBrady

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The Minister for Justice role would be what would worry you.

Be grand, he/she won't be trying to sneak in a state commemoration of the Black and Tans anyway.

NovemberWren

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Just looking at them all this evening on the news, the body language is bad.
FF and FG up **** creek, every fibre of their bodies must despise having to work with the other.
And even then they have to pander to the greens!
Coveney looking out of his car looked like he couldn't give a fcuk if it went ahead or not.
Ryan arrived pushing his bike, MM looked like a little desperate to complete his destiny.
Bad body language.

yep. those two are really weird and feuds go back to their very beginnings in villages.
Fianna Fail though are Uriah Heep. And, can the country stand any more of their monumentally bland architecture. They may continue with their "ever so 'umble" approach, to their "Master F.G.". But now may be their opportunity to be the Luscious butterflies. (difficult, for vipers).
The stuff of nightmares.
And F.G. are just as arrogant.

JohnnyFlash

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Be grand, he/she won't be trying to sneak in a state commemoration of the Black and Tans anyway.

It would be far more serious than that, Francie.


Not going to lie to you about that. Nasty auld stuff. Young lads beaten to death in a shed and left outside the parents house sort of thing.



Long way to go.

FrancieBrady

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

It would be far more serious than that, Francie.


Not going to lie to you about that. Nasty auld stuff. Young lads beaten to death in a shed and left outside the parents house sort of thing.



Long way to go.

That the one that the MOJ, PSNI and Gardai all know who did it? Not a lot can be done about cases like that when there isn't convicting evidence.

JohnnyFlash

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That the one that the MOJ, PSNI and Gardai all know who did it? Not a lot can be done about cases like that when there isn't convicting evidence.

The Free State know plenty as well. :eek:

Jinglejangle69

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That the one that the MOJ, PSNI and Gardai all know who did it? Not a lot can be done about cases like that when there isn't convicting evidence.

Who did it?

blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

How many wanted to see Mary Lou enter as a new Taoiseach?

Martin v Varadkar?

That's like asking what flavour of a turd sandwich you'd prefer.

If the choice is between which flavour of a turd sandwich or starving to death, you will pick one of the turd sandwiches rather than the other option.

JohnnyFlash

The '50' properties would also be an issue.

Good of young Eoin O'Byrne to be so vocal about the issue of housing. How's the houses up in Longford/Cavan/Monaghan doing for ye?

Mortelaro

https://twitter.com/JohnCleese/status/1271535485467283457?s=19

Bishop of hope

A Green flavoured policy document, only one winner.
Makes politics look ridiculous lads really, the smallest of the big four parties, 12% vote virtually dominating our economic policies going forward.
Now you can shudder at the thought of a SF involvement in government, but looking at the ratio of voting percentages as to policy implementation, then this is desperation stuff.
Rural Ireland will have been sacrificed again no doubt.

Leonard Hofstadter

Bishop of hope wrote: »

A Green flavoured policy document, only one winner.
Makes politics look ridiculous lads really, the smallest of the big four parties, 12% vote virtually dominating our economic policies going forward.
Now you can shudder at the thought of a SF involvement in government, but looking at the ratio of voting percentages as to policy implementation, then this is desperation stuff.
Rural Ireland will have been sacrificed again no doubt.

Those so and sos got 7% of the vote, not 12. Beyond ridiculous that the needs of the 7% are being placed ahead of the 43%.

FF and FG will pay a very heavy price if their memberships agree to this utter insanity and all out assault on rural Ireland.

Mortelaro

Bishop of hope wrote: »

A Green flavoured policy document, only one winner.
Makes politics look ridiculous lads really, the smallest of the big four parties, 12% vote virtually dominating our economic policies going forward.
Now you can shudder at the thought of a SF involvement in government, but looking at the ratio of voting percentages as to policy implementation, then this is desperation stuff.
Rural Ireland will have been sacrificed again no doubt.

I have a copy of the 'agreement '
It's the Agriculture section
It's not the worst I've ever read but copper fastens environmental stuff that will bankrupt larger newly expanded or new entrant dairy farmers in my opinion unless supports to them are massively increased
There are 'sustainable ' ways of doing this but its complicated
Doing this alongside the UK importing all sorts of un regulated food in competition with our increasingly regulated and frankly uneconomic sphere and in the light of the rest of the world not doing this especially china and the U.S is wacky to say the least

efanton

Well it seems that FG will be doing next to nothing for the next 5 years, they have voluntarily handed control over to the lunatic Greens, and it will not end well.

FG suggesting that there might be tax cuts towards the end of this government's term has to be a sick and cruel joke.


I cannot understand FG or FF agreeing to this. Are they so desperate to be in power that they risk being totally decimated at the next election?
They have handed on a plate a term of government for SF when this sorry mess of a government collapses or somehow crawls it way through the next 5 years. Seriously, I have no love for FG or what they stand for, but what are you guys thinking to allow this to happen?
This government is going to split the country between Dublin and the rest of rural Ireland and there will be consequences. both political and economic.

If BREXIT goes badly, we might be looking at one almighty recession when this is all over.

Never again will a FG/FF TD or supporter be able to make the argument that another parties policies are irresponsible, uncosted, or ill thought out.

markodaly

efanton wrote: »

Well it seems that FG will be doing next to nothing for the next 5 years, they have voluntarily handed control over to the lunatic Greens, and it will not end well.

I have to love it. A few weeks ago you were jumping up and down and complaining that FG was somehow trying to stop a government from forming as if it was some coup.
Now, there appears to be an agreement to form a government, its... yes you guessed it FG's fault.

Anyway, seeing at FG will have 6 ministers and Leo will be Taosieah at the end of 2022, yes, they are at least standing up.

Meanwhile, SF have done and will continue to do **** all.

Seriously, I have no love for FG or what they stand for, but what are you guys thinking to allow this to happen?
This government is going to split the country between Dublin and the rest of rural Ireland and there will be consequences. both political and economic.

Ah, spare us your faux outrage.

efanton

markodaly wrote: »

I have to love it. A few weeks ago you were jumping up and down and complaining that FG was somehow trying to stop a government from forming as if it was some coup.
Now, there appears to be an agreement to form a government, its... yes you guessed it FG's fault.

Anyway, seeing at FG will have 6 ministers and Leo will be Taosieah at the end of 2022, yes, they are at least standing up.

Meanwhile, SF have done and will continue to do **** all.




Ah, spare us your faux outrage.

Its not outrage. If a government has been formed in a democratic way I am quite happy to accept that.
I would prefer not to see FG in government, I haven't hidden that.
For those of us that would prefer FG not be in government we will have to wait five years, unless this government collapses.

As regards fault, if indeed there is any in this government , well you would have to agree that fault will be equally the responsibility of all three parties.
We will have to wait and see what this government does or does not do first though wouldn't we.

Still can see how FG could even be thinking of tax cuts with Michael Martin at the helm for two years and the Greens going on a spending spree.

Podge_irl

Spending more capital expenditure on public transport than road building over the course of one government is not going to come even close to equalising the absolute massive gap in spending on the two.

efanton wrote: »

I cannot understand FG or FF agreeing to this. Are they so desperate to be in power that they risk being totally decimated at the next election?

For anyone with an ounce of concept of responsibility there is no alternative. We are not yet in a position to be running another general election and you in particular seemed outraged at the concept of FG continuing in a caretaker role for much longer.

Edgware

Podge_irl wrote: »

Spending more capital expenditure on public transport than road building over the course of one government is not going to come even close to equalising the absolute massive gap in spending on the two.



For anyone with an ounce of concept of responsibility there is no alternative. We are not yet in a position to be running another general election and you in particular seemed outraged at the concept of FG continuing in a caretaker role for much longer.

Its allright. Martin will be Taoiseach. If in a couple of years the tree huggers start wondering why their policies are not being implemented they can pull the plug and get a hammering from the electorate. Martin will have been Taoiseach and Sinn Fein will be another two years into deep cleansing and FF might even give them a spin on the gravy train.

Brendan Bendar

Podge_irl wrote: »

Spending more capital expenditure on public transport than road building over the course of one government is not going to come even close to equalising the absolute massive gap in spending on the two.



For anyone with an ounce of concept of responsibility there is no alternative. We are not yet in a position to be running another general election and you in particular seemed outraged at the concept of FG continuing in a caretaker role for much longer.

Podge, these coins don’t understand ‘doing it for your country’.

Responsibility duddnt figure with these folks.

They are like a bunch of scrotes who steal a top of the range Beemer and take it out to the park and run the bollox out of it, then leave it burned out and wrecked, and walk away.

The Shinners were nowhere to be seen when the heavy lifting was required, as for the Bullhorn Brigade, nowhere to be seen, too busy trying to ensure they buttressed their wedge to bleed the taxpayer for another 5 years.


Game is up.

efanton

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Podge, these coins don’t understand ‘doing it for your country’.

Responsibility duddnt figure with these folks.

They are like a bunch of scrotes who steal a top of the range Beemer and take it out to the park and run the bollox out of it, then leave it burned out and wrecked, and walk away.

The Shinners were nowhere to be seen when the heavy lifting was required, as for the Bullhorn Brigade, nowhere to be seen, too busy trying to ensure they buttressed their wedge to bleed the taxpayer for another 5 years.


Game is up.

you guys make me laugh, you seriously do.

The only thing burned out and wrecked unfortunately will be rural Ireland and its economy, might even be the entire economy.
How is it going to be at all possible for this government to deliver on the housing, recover from the Covid outbreak and yet still have billions to spend on the Greens public transport schemes and public infrastructure.
4 months ago FG were laughing at SF wanting to spend an additional 6 billion building homes, now they have signed up to this and far more.

How FG are going to sit there watching the Greens and FF spend all the money on novelty and vanity projects knowing that's the tax cuts and economy going up in smoke is going got be interesting to watch.
But hey, thats what FG are agreeing to and in 5 years time, or less if this government collapses, they will not be able to use the excuse it was the Greens that did it. FG are going into this with their eyes wide open.

blanch152

efanton wrote: »

Its not outrage. If a government has been formed in a democratic way I am quite happy to accept that.
I would prefer not to see FG in government, I haven't hidden that.
For those of us that would prefer FG not be in government we will have to wait five years, unless this government collapses.

As regards fault, if indeed there is any in this government , well you would have to agree that fault will be equally the responsibility of all three parties.
We will have to wait and see what this government does or does not do first though wouldn't we.

Still can see how FG could even be thinking of tax cuts with Michael Martin at the helm for two years and the Greens going on a spending spree.

What is undemocratic about this government?

This is unbelievable nonsense. A majority of people cast their votes for the parties forming this government.

Those who didn't want FG in government had the numbers, but they couldn't agree among themselves. In particular, Sinn Fein proclaimed from the mountain-top that they were ready to form a left-leaning government and promptly went into hiding for the next four months.

blanch152

efanton wrote: »

you guys make me laugh, you seriously do.

The only thing burned out and wrecked unfortunately will be rural Ireland and its economy, might even be the entire economy.
How is it going to be at all possible for this government to deliver on the housing, recover from the Covid outbreak and yet still have billions to spend on the Greens public transport schemes and public infrastructure.
4 months ago FG were laughing at SF wanting to spend an additional 6 billion building homes, now they have signed up to this and far more.

How FG are going to sit there watching the Greens and FF spend all the money on novelty and vanity projects knowing that's the tax cuts and economy going up in smoke is going got be interesting to watch.
But hey, thats what FG are agreeing to and in 5 years time, or less if this government collapses, they will not be able to use the excuse it was the Greens that did it. FG are going into this with their eyes wide open.

I have to laugh at this. There is no consistency of thought other than Fine Gael are wrong. They are wrong to spend money, they are wrong not to spend money.

You wanted Sinn Fein policy on housing implemented, but when Fine Gael do it*, it is somehow wrong. The futility of consistency, as Brian Lenihan might say. It is wrong for Fine Gael to change their mind on policy, but it is ok for efanton to oppose them when they have changed their policy to suit his agenda.


*I don't necessarily agree that FG are copying SF policy, but you have claimed it, now you need to own it.

StackSteevens

blanch152 wrote: »

What is undemocratic about this government?

This is unbelievable nonsense. A majority of people cast their votes for the parties forming this government.

Those who didn't want FG in government had the numbers, but they couldn't agree among themselves. In particular, Sinn Fein proclaimed from the mountain-top that they were ready to form a left-leaning government and promptly went into hiding for the next four months.

On the bright side, it's good to see that Big Mac is greased up and ready for battle!

Sinn Féin will provide “the most effective opposition in the history of this State,” party leader Mary Lou McDonald has said.

Speaking after the emergence of the draft programme for government, she described the document as “very long, very wordy” and said the content was “vague.”

Although I can't help wondering whether she has the stamina to keep fighting for five long frustrating years, when she has to traipse up to West Belfast every few weeks to receive instructions from the Party bosses meet Michelle and tell her what to do in Stormont as well attending IRA commemorations.

Brendan Bendar

blanch152 wrote: »

I have to laugh at this. There is no consistency of thought other than Fine Gael are wrong. They are wrong to spend money, they are wrong not to spend money.

You wanted Sinn Fein policy on housing implemented, but when Fine Gael do it*, it is somehow wrong. The futility of consistency, as Brian Lenihan might say. It is wrong for Fine Gael to change their mind on policy, but it is ok for efanton to oppose them when they have changed their policy to suit his agenda.


*I don't necessarily agree that FG are copying SF policy, but you have claimed it, now you need to own it.

Correct Blanch, unfortunately those who support SF just want ‘results’ without any background action or planning.

blanch152

StackSteevens wrote: »

On the bright side, it's good to see that Big Mac is greased up and ready for battle!




Although I can't help wondering whether she has the stamina to keep fighting for five long frustrating years, when she has to traipse up to West Belfast every few weeks to receive instructions from the Party bosses meet Michelle and tell her what to do in Stormont as well attending IRA commemorations.

She is unbelievable. Been hiding under a rock for months now to avoid government formation talks, and only comes out when it is safe.

Some nerve.

Podge_irl

efanton wrote: »

The only thing burned out and wrecked unfortunately will be rural Ireland and its economy, might even be the entire economy.
How is it going to be at all possible for this government to deliver on the housing, recover from the Covid outbreak and yet still have billions to spend on the Greens public transport schemes and public infrastructure.
4 months ago FG were laughing at SF wanting to spend an additional 6 billion building homes, now they have signed up to this and far more.

Ringfencing 2/3 of the transport budget for public transport over roads does not require increasing the transport budget.