FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

efanton

blanch152 wrote: »

Not at all, this only shows your lack of understanding of politics.

Fine Gael were faced with three poor choices after the election.

(1) The best choice they had was to go into opposition. This would allow the party to rebuild, to regroup and to re-energise. This was the preferred choice for those reasons and why it was signalled so quickly after the election. However, it became apparent over about a fortnight that the party who proclaimed victory on election night - Sinn Fein - had no real interest or appetite in forming a government, to the extent that four months later they never had any serious discussion with any party about a programme for government. At the same time, the need for real leadership in the country became apparent as the implications of Covid-19 took hold. So, after that first fortnight, Fine Gael had to consider whether to change tack in the national interest in light of the inability of other parties to step up to the plate.

(2) The second choice was to do a deal with Sinn Fein. Fine Gael correctly never explored this choice because of what Sinn Fein are, a party of terrorist supporters without even the first clue about economic management, and a real threat to democracy with their support for good republicans. This one went nowhere for those obvious reasons.

(3) The third choice was to do a deal with Fianna Fail and someone else. I am sure this was distasteful to many in Fine Gael, but to be fair to them, they stepped up to the plate. I for one am delighted that they did, as the Greens now have a chance to be in government with a sensible partner.

That is the narrative, that is how it happened, that is why Varadkar has an approval rating of 75% and why Fine Gael are on 37% in the polls. They are doing what the electorate want. Similarly, the Greens are also up 4%. I hope that you are right that people won't forget what happened. Given the figures, an FG/Green coalition, with a stronger Green presence would be a real possibility after the next election.

As for those who protest and revolt, isn't that what they always do and isn't that just about the only thing that they are any use at?

I do love a bit of comedy, and fair play to you blanch you always deliver.

FG had two choices.
Keep SF out of government at all costs, or see a future where neither FF or FG would never get a majority in the Dail again.
It really is that simple.

With SF getting the same or a greater number of seats as FF and FG they priority is to try anything, do anything to destroy them, or diminish the share of the votes they are getting. Its all about self survival and absolutely nothing to do with with the good of the country. If it had been any other party, PBP, the SD's, even the Greens the same tactic would have been adopted.

Micheal Martin was very vocal that FG should not be in government before the election under any circumstances, what changed?

FG were totally against borrowing substantially for housing before the election, what changed?

Brendan Bendar

SF in govt. is certainly nothing to do with the good of the country.

James Brown

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Have a look on the CSO site, Homeless figures are there.

Your on another thread, saying people said things and when they ask you when they said it, you dont know :cool:

Away and annoy someone else

CSO stats are only relevant if they back the pro FG narrative. If they don't they're not.

FrancieBrady

Bowie wrote: »

CSO stats are only relevant if they back the pro FG narrative. If they don't they're not.

Same as allegations...if they are made against a shinner, they are unquestionably true...'throw away the key', anyone else and it's 'prove that slanderous lie'

JohnnyFlash

I see the Republic of Ireland have won a seat on the UN Security Council. Huge achievement for such a small country. Kudos to our ambassador, Enda Kenny, Eamonn Gilmore, Simon Coveney, Leo etc for all the work they put into the campaign.

Brendan Bendar

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I see the Republic of Ireland have won a seat on the UN Security Council. Huge achievement for such a small country. Kudos to our ambassador, Enda Kenny, Eamonn Gilmore, Simon Coveney, Leo etc for all the work they put into the campaign.

Won’t mean much to the lads with the bang of heather off them John.

JohnnyFlash

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Won’t mean much to the lads with the bang of heather off them John.

It's a huge achievement for the country, Brendan. I'd agree that it doesn't mean much to the lads who think about the parish pump, the next Wolfe Tones gig, and the price of diesel.



But on an international stage this is a big deal. Well done to our civil service (I know you might not agree with that one).

blanch152

smurgen wrote: »

To conclude you're happy that Leo chose Michael Martin to be Taoiseach and this is the least worst option? Someone he compared to John Delaney a few months back?
Was Varadkas approval rating taken before or after the details of PFG came out?

God no, I am just glad that the Greens went into government with anyone other than Sinn Fein.

smurgen

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I see the Republic of Ireland have won a seat on the UN Security Council. Huge achievement for such a small country. Kudos to our ambassador, Enda Kenny, Eamonn Gilmore, Simon Coveney, Leo etc for all the work they put into the campaign.

Great achievement fair play.
Did Leo have much of an input? Between that and the half days doing phone consultations it goes some distance to explaining why we're in the top ten Covid deaths internationally. Maybe he should have focused and less people would have died.

blanch152

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Have a look on the CSO site, Homeless figures are there.

Your on another thread, saying people said things and when they ask you when they said it, you dont know :cool:

Away and annoy someone else

No, they are not. They have some stats from the census, but the CSO don't produce the homeless stats, as I have already shown you. You appear to be making things up again.

Bowie wrote: »

CSO stats are only relevant if they back the pro FG narrative. If they don't they're not.

There are no CSO stats, have a look yourself. The stats are produced by the local authorities based on the work of the local authorities.

FrancieBrady

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

It's a huge achievement for the country, Brendan. I'd agree that it doesn't mean much to the lads who think about the parish pump, the next Wolfe Tones gig, and the price of diesel.



But on an international stage this is a big deal. Well done to our civil service (I know you might not agree with that one).

Yeh, it really changed our lives when we were on it last time, in 2001.

Can you point to anything that changed?

smurgen

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

It's a huge achievement for the country, Brendan. I'd agree that it doesn't mean much to the lads who think about the parish pump, the next Wolfe Tones gig, and the price of diesel.



But on an international stage this is a big deal. Well done to our civil service (I know you might not agree with that one).

Sure Simon tried the parish pump,couldn't cut it. Couldn't even sort the Events Center fiasco in Cork he posed for a picture with. Best he gets involved in stuff that are harder to measure objectively. That way his lack of achieving won't be as noticeable.

https://twitter.com/PieceOfPi552/status/1195747177160683520?s=09

NovemberWren

a stationary Helicopter, 20 mins. high in the sky, (i.e.going nowhere) over Waterford city, today. F.F. have started a circus show early. Then it (and another one?), was lower down, flying around.
And, some 'Moorehead Report' that will give an extra E8,000 to all Councillors, so they jump from E17K to E25K. ya couldn't make it up.
was something said today also about a general public sector pay rise?

Fann Linn

NovemberWren wrote: »

a stationary Helicopter, 20 mins. high in the sky, (i.e.going nowhere) over Waterford city, today. F.F. have started a circus show early. Then it (and another one?), was lower down, flying around.
And, some 'Moorehead Report' that will give an extra E8,000 to all Councillors, so they jump from E17K to E25K. ya couldn't make it up.
was something said today also about a general public sector pay rise?

Yep. Payrise in Sept, no new taxes, new housing, Slainte Care and on and on. Looks like FFG have found the SF money trees.

NovemberWren

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Same as allegations...if they are made against a shinner, they are unquestionably true...'throw away the key', anyone else and it's 'prove that slanderous lie'

the grip old best motto of S.F.: "Pushers Out". "Shinners In".

Idbatterim

Fg get destroyed in the election and varadkar currently has an approval rating he will never come near again, and cant capitalise on it. Karna for his betrayal of workers!

How can the homeless numbers ever be sorted ? It's a choice between free housing or extortionate housing....

NovemberWren

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

The average Rent in Dublin at the end of 2019 was 2,044 a month.

If you work 5 days a week for a month 8 hours a day minimum wage you earn 1616.

Where are you suppose to find the extra money?

That is one legacy the Govt have left, Young people have nowhere to turn apart from the airport.

so, that's about 400 p.w.

Yet, (in September? there is to be a public sector pay rise). So, a permanent Local Auth. employee, and in a Union, on E950 p.w. (and there are a lot of them) will now receive 2% extra? And they don't even reply to an e-mail.

I understand that public sector employees in areas such as Internal Revenue - that it is absolutely essential that they be remunerated very well. But the interaction between local authority employees and the very general public, is Deliberately slanted, (however rotten), to the political parties; and overseen with no qualms, by these employees.

And, it seems to me, that the increase of employees in these 'Label' jobs is probably just an increase of votes for these parties.
Maybe there needs to be different Unions, for such absolutely different trades of white-collar, in the very different white-collar areas of the public sector.

satguy

It's not a done deal yet,, not even close.

There is still the whiff of another GE in the air,, and if there is, and with the amount of poll toppers SF have, most with huge majorities.
This may well be state changing in ways we can't imagine,, because, more than likely SF will add 9 or 10 more seats this time around.

I would bet that SF will run running mates in at least 15 of their biggest constituencies that had poll toppers with votes to share.

Then you look and see how many FG big names barely made it over the line on count 6 or even 7 in some constituencies,, While SF had guys in on first counts. Guys that had gigantic surpluses that more than likely will change Irish Politics for ever.

markodaly

efanton wrote: »

Keep SF out of government at all costs, or see a future where neither FF or FG would never get a majority in the Dail again.
It really is that simple.

Comedy is right. FG never had a majority in the Dail, so to claim something that will never again when it never happened in the first place is a comedy in of itself.
The last time FF got a majority was in 1977. 43 years ago.....

In other words majority single-party governments are no more, nor will it ever be.
SF will NEVER get enough seats to enter power without talking to other parties.
The time will come at some stage that SF will actually have to get off their twitter accounts and talk to other parties about forming a program for government.

With SF getting the same or a greater number of seats as FF and FG they priority is to try anything, do anything to destroy them, or diminish the share of the votes

markodaly

satguy wrote: »

It's not a done deal yet,, not even close.

There is still the whiff of another GE in the air,, and if there is, and with the amount of poll toppers SF have, most with huge majorities.
This may well be state changing in ways we can't imagine,, because, more than likely SF will add 9 or 10 more seats this time around.

I would bet that SF will run running mates in at least 15 of their biggest constituencies that had poll toppers with votes to share.

Then you look and see how many FG big names barely made it over the line on count 6 or even 7 in some constituencies,, While SF had guys in on first counts. Guys that had gigantic surpluses that more than likely will change Irish Politics for ever.

Are you still telling us that FF will outpoll FG if there was going to be another election? :pac::pac::D:D

Keep it up. I need a good laugh sometimes.

satguy

markodaly wrote: »

Are you still telling us that FF will outpoll FG if there was going to be another election? :pac::pac::D:D

Keep it up. I need a good laugh sometimes.

By about 11 seats..

Bishop of hope

satguy wrote: »

It's not a done deal yet,, not even close.

There is still the whiff of another GE in the air,, and if there is, and with the amount of poll toppers SF have, most with huge majorities.
This may well be state changing in ways we can't imagine,, because, more than likely SF will add 9 or 10 more seats this time around.

I would bet that SF will run running mates in at least 15 of their biggest constituencies that had poll toppers with votes to share.

Then you look and see how many FG big names barely made it over the line on count 6 or even 7 in some constituencies,, While SF had guys in on first counts. Guys that had gigantic surpluses that more than likely will change Irish Politics for ever.

I think SF will lose some votes actually if there is an election now, the last 3 months haven't helped them at all, they haven't been good through this virus at all.
There's a new crisis now, overarching housing by a mile and people wont trust them to steer u s through that.
More candidates now could lose them seats.
Their best option is a new Govt and hang in there whinging for another 3 or 4 years and hope that this Govt fcuks up.
A fresh election now will only benefit FG and perhaps FF imo.

McMurphy

Bishop of hope wrote: »

I think SF will lose some votes actually if there is an election now, the last 3 months haven't helped them at all, they haven't been good through this virus at all.
There's a new crisis now, overarching housing by a mile and people wont trust them to steer u s through that.
More candidates now could lose them seats.
Their best option is a new Govt and hang in there whinging for another 3 or 4 years and hope that this Govt fcuks up.
A fresh election now will only benefit FG and perhaps FF imo.

You serious?

Wasn't it the dire state of our housing and health services that inspired the whole revolt against fg and FF to begin with?

There's going to be a bit of a kerfuffle to deal with surrounding the nursing/care home controversies here and the death rate they experienced during the pandemic.

Siteserv inquiry due to reach its conclusion in less than a fortnight.

If it reveals "certain abnormalities" surrounding FG and a state contract's yet again with a certain wealthy businessman - I'd certainly not want to face a fresh election in the short term wake of that.

Bishop of hope

McMurphy wrote: »

You serious?

Wasn't it the dire state of our housing and health services that inspired the whole revolt against fg and FF to begin with?

There's going to be a bit of a kerfuffle to deal with surrounding the nursing/care home controversies here and the death rate they experienced during the pandemic.

Siteserv inquiry due to reach its conclusion in less than a fortnight.

If it reveals "certain abnormalities" surrounding FG and a state contract's yet again with a certain wealthy businessman - I'd certainly not want to face a fresh election in the short term wake of that.

I doubt there will be adverse findings actually.
Our health service has coped admirably, Leo's ratings are through the roof, FG well up in opinion polls, people fed up of SF constantly retreating when there's problems to be sorted and despite their vote making no serious effort to form a Govt.
Giving out about FF and FF running the country and whinging then that they aren't included to join with FF or FG.
They're a joke of a joke sort of, people are copping on and if they increase their candidates it could well cause them to lose seats.
So yes, I'm serious.

McMurphy

Bishop of hope wrote: »

I doubt there will be adverse findings actually.
Our health service has coped admirably, Leo's ratings are through the roof, FG well up in opinion polls, people fed up of SF constantly retreating when there's problems to be sorted and despite their vote making no serious effort to form a Govt.
Giving out about FF and FF running the country and whinging then that they aren't included to join with FF or FG.
They're a joke of a joke sort of, people are copping on and if they increase their candidates it could well cause them to lose seats.
So yes, I'm serious.

Not long to go to find out thankfully.

On the other stuff, FG have been at the helm of the housing and trolley crises for the last nine years, they are currently enjoying a bit of a bounce for how they handled the pandemic, they can be applauded for some of, but not all of their handling of it.

I just don't see how you think their housing record will be brushed aside by the electorate if a new election is called.

I don't see how leo or Simon can bat away any past transgressions with "but covid 19", but if you're serious, have at it.

Mortelaro

Regarding the pandemic, there was a 46 year old farmer had it in cork university hospital in February
Before the italy cases
That was on morning Ireland the other day
He had no foreign travel or contacts
They've no idea how he got it but that in February it was proof even then it was in the community
He died R.I.P
It may well have arrived here in December when it is now known to have been in France and just got conflated with flu
Doubtless in my opinion people will have died pre crisis without diagnosis
The french found it by going back and testing post mortem samples
But of course that was too late
It was just an education exercise
Our nursing homes hadn't a hope
All this will come out in any analysis done in a year or two

Bishop of hope

McMurphy wrote: »

Not long to go to find out thankfully.

On the other stuff, FG have been at the helm of the housing and trolley crises for the last nine years, they are currently enjoying a bit of a bounce for how they handled the pandemic, they can be applauded for some of, but not all of their handling of it.

I just don't see how you think their housing record will be brushed aside by the electorate if a new election is called.

I don't see how leo or Simon can bat away any past transgressions with "but covid 19", but if you're serious, have at it.

My opinion is based on a fresh election now and with the country still coming to grips with covid and getting over this and getting the economy back on track, I think people will have more dependence on FG and (spit) even FF for that.
SF won't win their seats as emphatically I feel and a couple of their TD's have been shown to be shams.
If they run more candidates, as was suggested in the post I replied to, it could cause a split vote and actual seat losses.
They'd be hoping for a few years of opposition before fresh elections themselves I'd say.

dundalkfc10

Bishop of hope wrote: »

My opinion is based on a fresh election now and with the country still coming to grips with covid and getting over this and getting the economy back on track, I think people will have more dependence on FG and (spit) even FF for that.
SF won't win their seats as emphatically I feel and a couple of their TD's have been shown to be shams.
If they run more candidates, as was suggested in the post I replied to, it could cause a split vote and actual seat losses.
They'd be hoping for a few years of opposition before fresh elections themselves I'd say.

Nonsense, Sinn Fein will easily up their numbers by at least 5.

Leo and Martin it looks like have failed to deliver a Govt (thank ****ing God)

Roll on an election.

Id also expect a major increase in the numbers of Under 30s voting. As social media shows, enough of this same old same old, look after ourselves and the Rich and worry about everything else after.

McMurphy

Bishop of hope wrote: »

My opinion is based on a fresh election now and with the country still coming to grips with covid and getting over this and getting the economy back on track, I think people will have more dependence on FG and (spit) even FF for that.
SF won't win their seats as emphatically I feel and a couple of their TD's have been shown to be shams.
If they run more candidates, as was suggested in the post I replied to, it could cause a split vote and actual seat losses.
They'd be hoping for a few years of opposition before fresh elections themselves I'd say.

Last time I looked I think it was 2-1 on a second election in 2020. Given the current state of play and how many (seemingly including the caretaker govt) did not take into consideration the revolt against the proposed Coalition between their own members, their youth wings and (hilariously) the fact the greens in the north get to vote on govt formation here, it looks like free dosh from where I'm sitting this morning.

Few bob, keeps things interesting.

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

I think SF will lose some votes actually if there is an election now, the last 3 months haven't helped them at all, they haven't been good through this virus at all.

I think you could be right about 'losing votes'. But the polls show SF holding steady at 25%

If there is another election I think all of the parties will have to adjust their approach.

The theme of another election will centre(or should at least) around what you are going to do if you receive a mandate.
Parties are going to have to be very clear about that imo.
It won't be good enough to say 'we won't go into coalition' with x...nudge nudge wink wink' nor 'we will form a left wing government'.