FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

For Forks Sake

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Meant to say Cancer Screenings my apologies.

Schools should be back open now and before now (like they have been all over Europe)

We can all go pub in 2 weeks, get pissed with our mates and come home to our kids, but dont you dare send them to school

Primary school term ends next week anyway so it would be pointless re-opening at this stage (plus evidence from the UK seem to show that rushing schools back has been a bad idea). Best to plan for getting things right for September at this point (and I say this as a parent)

Secondary and third level terms are long over so not sure why you'd be re-opening them in a hurry.

RandomViewer

Augeo wrote: »

Most of them are minimum wage jobs +20% ........... that's not reasonably well paid .......... if your job can be done by a student on their summer break you can't expect to be paid overly fantastically tbh.

Back in 1996/1997 where I worked (retail, DIY stores etc) many of the folk were on under IR£160/week and they found it hard to pay their way also........ you get experience and you move on to better things.

Lots of folk on low wages qualify for HAP btw so they can be doing better then folk paying the higher rate of tax.

Economy needs all the workers whose jobs are currently low paid, you say they need to move on but the job still needs to be done so the job is still there at low pay, A realignment of the workplace wher pay rates are modernised,
I don't know anyone working who qualifies for HAP

efanton

Geuze wrote: »

OK.

The 45-50% figure excludes CB, as just weekly payments are included.

So how does that square with the statistics the government itself releases. Only this month Leo claimed unemployment was now down to less than 120,000

https://extra.ie/2019/06/05/business/jobs/leo-varadkar-hails-big-story-of-the-day-as-irish-unemployment-hits-14-year-low

‘The seasonally adjusted number of males unemployed in May 2019 was 60,800, down from 63,200 in April 2019. In May 2019 the seasonally adjusted number of females unemployed was 47,300 a decrease of 800 when compared to April 2019.’

Or indeed how does it square with what the CSO say. CSO statistics states only 224,900 were claiming unemployment benefit in 2018

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/lr/liveregistermay2018/#:~:text=There%20were%2023%2C121%20new%20registrants,and%20595%20%E2%80%9COther%20Registrants%E2%80%9D.

I have got a lot respect for you Gueze but now you are playing semantics, and it doesnt become you.

My original post said this

EAPN has cautioned against austerity politics, warning that almost 700,000 people were at risk of poverty before the current crisis.

There certainly was not 700,000 on the dole or living of social welfare before the covid crisis, and it is those that do work but are included in that number that have made the swing away from FF/FG so significant.

And I thought it was oblivious and very clear that the point I was making is those at risk of poverty are no longer only those on social welfare payments,

Poor_old_gill

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Primary school term ends next week anyway so it would be pointless re-opening at this stage (plus evidence from the UK seem to show that rushing schools back has been a bad idea). Best to plan for getting things right for September at this point (and I say this as a parent)

Secondary and third level terms are long over so not sure why you'd be re-opening them in a hurry.

He doesn't care about the schools - he just whinges about everything that parties other than SF do.
He is of his party

RandomViewer

RandomViewer wrote: »

Economy needs all the workers whose jobs are currently low paid, you say they need to move on but the job still needs to be done so the job is still there at low pay, A realignment of the workplace wher pay rates are modernised,
........

........... they get replaced by other inexperience workers, also not all move on. Some are happy not to progress, better themselves etc but you don't usually get rewarded financially for doing unskilled work that most folk can do with no to little training.

RandomViewer wrote: »

........I don't know anyone working who qualifies for HAP

That's neither here nor there, plenty of low paid workers qualify for HAP.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/housing-assistance-payments-bands-need-to-be-changed-1.3525963#:~:text=In%20band%201%2C%20covering%20the,for%20a%20family%20with%20children.


"In band 1, covering the four Dublin local authorities as well as Cork City, Meath, Kildare and Wicklow, the maximum annual net income thresholds are €35,000 for a single person and €42,000 for a family with children."

Plenty low paid folk are on HAP, plenty folk who don't qualify have no idea how generous the income limits are......... the numbers above are net iirc, not gross.

RandomViewer

Augeo wrote: »

........... they get replaced by other inexperience workers, also not all move on. Some are happy not to progress, better themselves etc but you don't usually get rewarded financially for doing unskilled work that most folk can do with no to little training.



That's neither here nor there, plenty of low paid workers qualify for HAP.

There's a very finite number of well paid jobs, how many Lawyers or IT consultants will any country need,
Telling everyone they must upskill but the more who upskill the less that skill is worth
. It has to stop being about money, the notion that you can't have a life unless you have some silly job title that in reality involves pressing "enter" a few times an hour.

blanch152

NovemberWren wrote: »

public sector workers. They have their Diplomas, Certificates, BA's. And Labels (for Votes) are dreamed up...CEO., Clerk 1, Clerk grade 3, Supervisor 1, Deputy Supervisor - there is barely a ha'paworth of difference between most of these 'Labels'.
Fine Gael (and F.F. etc.), when in Govt. then dream up More 'Labels' (Votes).
This rebounds then on Fine Gael, as, there is such a massive stock of these fabricated Labels (in HSE, etc.).
So, it is not then that Fine Gael, etc. are 'left'; it is that they have deliberately made the 'left' Voted so massive.
And these parties need to give these 'Labels' (Votes), Material to deliberate on, to work on; the poor.

What is a Supervisor 1 or a Clerk 1?

Never heard of these, are you basing your post on something you read somewhere, or is it real experience?

RandomViewer

RandomViewer wrote: »

There's a very finite number of well paid jobs, how many Lawyers or IT consultants will any country need,
Telling everyone they must upskill but the more who upskill the less that skill is worth
. It has to stop being about money,...........

There's a level between €12/hour and being a Lawyer or IT consultant.
A couple on €25k each is a household income of €50k ........ if you want/chose/have to work for €10/€12 an hour, don't want to upskill and remain single then like anyone else you need to cut your cloth bla bla bla .......... but all that said look at the HAP net income limits........... they are catering for folk on way more then €12/hour.

RandomViewer wrote: »

...........the notion that you can't have a life unless you have some silly job title that in reality involves pressing "enter" a few times an hour.

I don't know what that waffle is about but please do detail where the silly & presumably well paid jobs are ?

blanch152

efanton wrote: »

So how does that square with the statistics the government itself releases. Only this month Leo claimed unemployment was now down to less than 120,000

https://extra.ie/2019/06/05/business/jobs/leo-varadkar-hails-big-story-of-the-day-as-irish-unemployment-hits-14-year-low




Or indeed how does it square with what the CSO say. CSO statistics states only 224,900 were claiming unemployment benefit in 2018

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/lr/liveregistermay2018/#:~:text=There%20were%2023%2C121%20new%20registrants,and%20595%20%E2%80%9COther%20Registrants%E2%80%9D.

I have got a lot respect for you Gueze but now you are playing semantics, and it doesnt become you.

My original post said this



And I thought it was oblivious and very clear that the point I was making is those at risk of poverty are no longer only those on social welfare payments,

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/report-gives-stark-warning-were-a-welfare-nation-862072.html

"There are 1.3m people in receipt of a weekly social welfare payment in respect of two million beneficiaries."

That suggests that at least 600,000 of the weekly social welfare recipients are not at risk of poverty.

James Brown

Bishop of hope wrote: »

No they're going to magic it up, just like SF:).
Of course SF are going to spend their own money, not the taxpayers, much better.

He's literally comparing like with like.
So you don't care about any costings? You just want your team in? And you think SF are unfit for the same reasons you ignore from FG?
Hypocrisy my friend.

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

There's gonna be a massive budget deficit after covid. There's gonna be taxes. Simples.

Yes, but will they go toward society or a quango? Will we see austerity while FG engage in crony deals at a lost to the tax payer?

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

The Green Party conference must be going badly for the naysayers, the smell of desperation in here is palpable.

That's how you describe democracy in your own party? So only Green party members who agree with you are true decent Green party members? Maybe the Green party members and activists are secret Shinners Blanch? Isn't everyone has issue with FG?
Is it democracy or free will you don't like?

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

That's how you describe democracy in your own party? So only Green party members who agree with you are true decent Green party members? Maybe the Green party members and activists are secret Shinners Blanch? Isn't everyone has issue with FG?
Is it democracy or free will you don't like?

What are you on about? Where are you getting that from?

It is a bit early to be on the sauce, making things up.

Geuze

efanton wrote: »

So how does that square with the statistics the government itself releases. Only this month Leo claimed unemployment was now down to less than 120,000

Sorry, my reply was referring to all those on all welfare payments, sorry.

The 45%-50% of the pop figure refers to all recipients and all beneficiaries of weekly payments.

To be clear, before COIVD, there were way less than 700,000 unemployed.

But there were way more than 700,000 on welfare payments.


I may have joined the discussion late, so I may have replied out of context.

Bishop of hope

Bowie wrote: »

He's literally comparing like with like.
So you don't care about any costings? You just want your team in? And you think SF are unfit for the same reasons you ignore from FG?
Hypocrisy my friend.



Yes, but will they go toward society or a quango? Will we see austerity while FG engage in crony deals at a lost to the tax payer?

As am I.
Anything any of them do is at the taxpayers expense.
FG, FF, SF etc etc aren't doing anything for anybody at their own expense, it's at taxpayer expense.
They may have different methods, but if they beg borrow or steal the money for their promises, the taxpayer always foots the bill.

James Brown

Bishop of hope wrote: »

As am I.
Anything any of them do is at the taxpayers expense.
FG, FF, SF etc etc aren't doing anything for anybody at their own expense, it's at taxpayer expense.
They may have different methods, but if they beg borrow or steal the money for their promises, the taxpayer always foots the bill.

But is it spent in the tax payers interest?
I still believe most people want value for tax payer money and a better society. I can't say the same for FG the party, (I know some of the supporters are very decent people).

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

But is it spent in the tax payers interest?
I still believe most people want value for tax payer money and a better society. I can't say the same for FG the party, (I know some of the supporters are very decent people).

It all depends on your perspective.

Everyone wants value for tax payer money and a better society. Some believe that can be achieved by reducing tax, cutting social welfare and getting layabouts to get back to work. Others believe it can be done by taxing the rich and having a universal basic income equal to the average wage. Even Hitler would argue he was working for value for tax payer money and a better society.

The rhetoric spouted on here that FG or FF or the Greens are not out for the betterment of society is both more than a little tired and most certainly completely disingenuous.

Your view of what is a better society is your view, no more, no less. It is different to my view which is different to the view of Fine Gael. That doesn't make you morally superior or them morally inferior and it certainly doesn't justify your characterisation of them above, which is a broken record at this stage.

The different views of what is better for society are why we vote.



P.S. If you want to get into moralising about which party is out for the betterment of society, consider which of them most recently supported the killing of Gardai in this country. It certainly wasn't FF, FG or the Greens.

efanton

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/report-gives-stark-warning-were-a-welfare-nation-862072.html

"There are 1.3m people in receipt of a weekly social welfare payment in respect of two million beneficiaries."

That suggests that at least 600,000 of the weekly social welfare recipients are not at risk of poverty.

So would it be fair to say without the aid of some welfare payments, even though these people work, they still would be at risk of poverty?

smurgen

Christ. Lieo with the verbal diarrhoea once again. He's worse than his good old buddy Trump for the hyperbole.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1274039765562728454?s=19

FrancieBrady

smurgen wrote: »

Christ. Lieo with the verbal diarrhoea once again. He's worse than his good old buddy Trump for the hyperbole.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1274039765562728454?s=19

Did he get down and funky with the kidz this time? Or did he stick in an auld Heaney quote?

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

It all depends on your perspective.

Everyone wants value for tax payer money and a better society. Some believe that can be achieved by reducing tax, cutting social welfare and getting layabouts to get back to work. Others believe it can be done by taxing the rich and having a universal basic income equal to the average wage. Even Hitler would argue he was working for value for tax payer money and a better society.

The rhetoric spouted on here that FG or FF or the Greens are not out for the betterment of society is both more than a little tired and most certainly completely disingenuous.

Your view of what is a better society is your view, no more, no less. It is different to my view which is different to the view of Fine Gael. That doesn't make you morally superior or them morally inferior and it certainly doesn't justify your characterisation of them above, which is a broken record at this stage.

The different views of what is better for society are why we vote.



P.S. If you want to get into moralising about which party is out for the betterment of society, consider which of them most recently supported the killing of Gardai in this country. It certainly wasn't FF, FG or the Greens.

But they don't Blanch. Some have written off sections of society, disagree some exist in any amount worth bothering with.
Value for money needs to relate to society and everyone in it. You are not successful if one section is doing well while another suffers. A growing economy in tandem with record breaking crises is a good example.
The Jews, Gays and disabled would disagree with Hitler on that.

It's based on the track record of FF/FG. The Greens? Not seen that claim on them. At least they seem to have an ideology outside of themselves.

Never claimed to be morally superior.
It's based on what they (FF/FG) do.
Yes because they play the same old tune. If they never change why would any criticism?

You nearly made it. So close.
I don't think FF/FG put the tax payer first. I think FG housing policy is god awful and can see no reason why despite it making matters worse, they continue as is. Are they thick or on the make? Who knows. I'd guess maybe a little from column 'A' and and large portion from column 'B'.

Idbatterim

P.S. If you want to get into moralising about which party is out for the betterment of society, consider which of them most recently supported the killing of Gardai in this country. It certainly wasn't FF, FG or the Greens.

Fg are proven soft on law and order, have done nothing to improve it! Throwing money at skangers on the outside, but not arsed spending money to put them inside! :rolleyes:

Loafing Oaf

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Did he get down and funky with the kidz this time? Or did he stick in an auld Heaney quote?

Did he ever, quoting Mean Girls this time:cool:

JohnnyFlash

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Did he ever, quoting Mean Girls this time:cool:

I love how angry these innocuous quotes make some people. Pouring over his speech looking for something to be angry about.

mattser

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I love how angry these innocuous quotes make some people. Pouring over his speech looking for something to be angry about.



Wasters, Johnny. Nothing to do and all day to do it.

FrancieBrady

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I love how angry these innocuous quotes make some people. Pouring over his speech looking for something to be angry about.

'innocuous' that was the word I was looking for.

NovemberWren

@Bowie. that "Some have written off sections of society", I agree.

And more than just written off, but have thrown people to the alligators of Sinn Fein.
They have handed over almost, Lock, Stock and Barrel, some Housing estates, to Sinn Fein.
Communication from people is ignored (as policy?) at Loc.Auths., [whilst these public sector employee voters are well-paid]; and Sinn Fein are free to Police these estates as the Owners - of all of the houses; and as owners of the people.
This is well know to FFG, (Lab.), etc.
Though Leo seems a decent person, I would not be too sure of re-election.
And Fianna Fail have been consistently facilitating Sinn Fein since c.1996?

smurgen

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I love how angry these innocuous quotes make some people. Pouring over his speech looking for something to be angry about.

You sound pretty angry. I'm more confused/bemused.Trump's lack of professionalism and demeanor must have rubbed off on him! We'll file this next to the Kylie fan mail in under harmless/cringe inducing stuff he done.

RandomViewer

Idbatterim wrote: »

Fg are proven soft on law and order, have done nothing to improve it! Throwing money at skangers on the outside, but not arsed spending money to put them inside! :rolleyes:

Burning evidence and letting people walk when there's clear CCTV evidence, in the pocket of well known Dublin drug dealer?

RandomViewer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Did he get down and funky with the kidz this time? Or did he stick in an auld Heaney quote?

I'm waiting for the Scooby doo quote,

Poor_old_gill

The irony of the shinner supporters getting hepped up over speech etiquette is great reading.

So shouting “Up the ra & up the provos” while proclaiming you want a 32 county republic whereby a unionist population will have to be integrated is not at all idiotic.

However Leo including a movie quote means he should be tarred & feathered?

There’s plenty of stuff to take aim at without having to lower yourselves to such pathetic pedantry