FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Did you miss the carry on of two of Heathers senior cumann members?

Wonder what a list of the weird and wonderful characters of FF FG over the years would look like.

Was the Kingsmill pan man mentioned , or did I miss him.

Were they involved in Garda murders?

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

That's dodging again Blanch. You ignored my queries and just went for a deflection. Hypocritical.

Your query was about standards and applying them equally.

Before answering, I asked the same of you. You have refused to answer, that tells me all I need to know.

As far as I know Humphreys has been accused of wrongdoing, but nothing proven. In most of the examples I gave, the wrongdoing is known and proven. If you are willing to vote for a party with Houlihan and McElduff, Adams, Ferris and Ellis not to mention the widely travelled Mary -Lou in its ranks, why are you casting stones at others?

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Did you miss the carry on of two of Heathers senior cumann members?

Wonder what a list of the weird and wonderful characters of FF FG over the years would look like.

Except that nearly all of the ones I mentioned are still senior SF members and/or current representatives, not like some far-distant relics that you might recall from FG or FF, or if they are more recent, like Bailey, Murphy and Cowen, have been removed from office or from the party.

All I am pointing out is the people hypocritically throwing stones in glasshouses.

Falling asleep in the Dail chamber is junior infants stuff compared to the senior inter-county wrongdoing of Sinn Fein, or the silly pubescent schoolboy antics of FG.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Your query was about standards and applying them equally.

Before answering, I asked the same of you. You have refused to answer, that tells me all I need to know.

As far as I know Humphreys has been accused of wrongdoing, but nothing proven. In most of the examples I gave, the wrongdoing is known and proven. If you are willing to vote for a party with Houlihan and McElduff, Adams, Ferris and Ellis not to mention the widely travelled Mary -Lou in its ranks, why are you casting stones at others?

You dodged and hid behind a shinner rant.
It was proven she passed the letter. That's all I've ever referred to.
Never said I wouldn't vote FG over HH. That's the latest in a long line of things you make up to suit your argument(?).

Bowie wrote: »

So is it youse don't think Heather did anything wrong or the fact the team still hasn't seen bad press yet?

Is that the win or would you not want answers from her even if you were a colleague or a member? Is trying to ignore problems a good practice?

Heather?

smurgen

Leo's spokesman giving a rebuttal of a Ruth Morrissey's husband's written statement. Talk about scraping the barrel. Some bunch. Stay classy Fine Gael.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1284937864984371207?s=19

James Brown

smurgen wrote: »

Leo's spokesman giving a rebuttal of a Ruth Morrissey's husband's written statement. Talk about scraping the barrel. Some bunch. Stay classy Fine Gael.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1284937864984371207?s=19

FG don't do sincerity or empathy.
Just look at the lad they have as leader quoting films during a covid speech for a bet and a laugh.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

You dodged and hid behind a shinner rant.
It was proven she passed the letter. That's all I've ever referred to.
Never said I wouldn't vote FG over HH. That's the latest in a long line of things you make up to suit your argument(?).



Heather?

Again, what did Heather do that was worse than the examples I gave.

Let me bel clear, I am not defending her, I am trying to find the level standard that we should judge all politicians by.

If passing on a letter is bad, does that mean attending a fake funeral during lockdown is fine? You are casting stones at only one side. It must be a draughty glasshouse that you inhabit.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Again, what did Heather do that was worse than the examples I gave.

Let me bel clear, I am not defending her, I am trying to find the level standard that we should judge all politicians by.

If passing on a letter is bad, does that mean attending a fake funeral during lockdown is fine? You are casting stones at only one side. It must be a draughty glasshouse that you inhabit.

Again, deflect.
No you're not you're dodging my questions.
No I'm not. I'm in a FG thread asking questions about a FG minister. All the rest is all you.

FrancieBrady

Bowie wrote: »

FG don't do sincerity or empathy.
Just look at the lad they have as leader quoting films during a covid speech for a bet and a laugh.

I wasn't going to use her tragedy, her whole family's tragedy to criticise. I thought Varadkar would have had the decency to shut up for a week or two. Just ineffably sad and typical of the coldness that he would issue that statement now.

I hope the country goes to town on him tomorrow, I really do.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

Again, deflect.
No you're not you're dodging my questions.
No I'm not. I'm in a FG thread asking questions about a FG minister. All the rest is all you.

Again, that is lies and deflection.

If I judge Heather by Sinn Fein standards, she is an Angel, done nothing wrong.

If I judge her by Green standards, she has a problem if allegations are true.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Again, that is lies and deflection.

If I judge Heather by Sinn Fein standards, she is an Angel, done nothing wrong.

If I judge her by Green standards, she has a problem if allegations are true.

I asked some questions regarding HH. Any SF talk is deflection.

Show me the lie.

Your opinion of SF's standards is you own and irrelevant to my HH queries.

No idea what the Greens have to do with it either.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Again, that is lies and deflection.

If I judge Heather by Sinn Fein standards, she is an Angel, done nothing wrong.

If I judge her by Green standards, she has a problem if allegations are true.

I asked some questions regarding HH. Any SF talk is deflection.

Show me the lie.

Your opinion of SF's standards is you own and irrelevant to my HH queries.

No idea what the Greens have to do with it either.

To recap:

So is it youse don't think Heather did anything wrong or the fact the team still hasn't seen bad press yet?

Is that the win or would you not want answers from her even if you were a colleague or a member? Is trying to ignore problems a good practice?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Again, that is lies and deflection.

If I judge Heather by Sinn Fein standards, she is an Angel, done nothing wrong.

If I judge her by Green standards, she has a problem if allegations are true.

So the new standard is to find somebody who you think is worse and point at them, thus exonerating the person you are defending?

Here's a novel idea, how about taking what the person did on it's own terms.

JohnnyFlash

A lot of very angry people in the outrage engine rooms of social media this weekend. Highly amusing to see.

Lashing out at Neale Richmond for being a Protestant, Leo for taking a few days holidays with Matt down in Clare, still dishing out abuse to Regina Doherty etc.

Good to see Eilish O’Hanlon become the latest journalist to speak out about how followers of one particular party are hiding behind anonymous online accounts to vomit up their vile hate and abuse. Another good article in the Examiner by Mick Clifford as well.

FrancieBrady

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

A lot of very angry people in the outrage engine rooms of social media this weekend. Highly amusing to see.

Lashing out at Neale Richmond for being a Protestant, Leo for taking a few days holidays with Matt down in Clare, still dishing out abuse to Regina Doherty etc.

Good to see Eilish O’Hanlon become the latest journalist to speak out about how followers of one particular party are hiding behind anonymous online accounts to vomit up their vile hate and abuse. Another good article in the Examiner by Mick Clifford as well.

Clifford's article on the flag?

Basically saying, any use of the flag I don't approve of is wrong. I laughed at the poor chap while thinking it must be silly season or writer's block.

Didn't notice any of the rest of the stuff you are talking about.
What about Leo 'hiding behind' a spokesperson when getting coldly huffy about Ruth Morrissey's husband's heartfelt words?

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So the new standard is to find somebody who you think is worse and point at them, thus exonerating the person you are defending?

Here's a novel idea, how about taking what the person did on it's own terms.

Actually, that is what I am trying to do.

The only way of dealing with actions on their own terms, is to establish some standards as to what is acceptable or unacceptable. We can then judge all politicians and parties by those standards.

Without setting some standards, you will get partisan accusations, and hypocritical threads, with some posters attacking only one side, or refraining from attacking because of problems in their own ranks. You only have to look at Mary-Lou in the Dail, who backed away from criticising Cowen, presumably because she has Pat Buckley in her ranks, who was guilty of much worse.

Let's agree some things that are unacceptable, and apply those standards. Otherwise you get stupid threads with people posting bile about a tired TD falling asleep.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Actually, that is what I am trying to do.

The only way of dealing with actions on their own terms, is to establish some standards as to what is acceptable or unacceptable. We can then judge all politicians and parties by those standards.

Without setting some standards, you will get partisan accusations, and hypocritical threads, with some posters attacking only one side, or refraining from attacking because of problems in their own ranks. You only have to look at Mary-Lou in the Dail, who backed away from criticising Cowen, presumably because she has Pat Buckley in her ranks, who was guilty of much worse.

Let's agree some things that are unacceptable, and apply those standards. Otherwise you get stupid threads with people posting bile about a tired TD falling asleep.

FF FG and Greens have laid down the marker here, if you do something wrong/make a mistake in life and pay the penalty/take the punishment, that is the end of it, you should be allowed continue your career.
That would be my attitude to life in general actually, nobody leads a life without mistakes and doing things they regret.

If a Minister lies to his leader or another Minister intervenes in something they shouldn't, that can and should be looked at on it's own terms.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

FF FG and Greens have laid down the marker here, if you do something wrong/make a mistake in life and pay the penalty/take the punishment, that is the end of it, you should be allowed continue your career.
That would be my attitude to life in general actually, nobody leads a life without mistakes and doing things they regret.

If a Minister lies to his leader or another Minister intervenes in something they shouldn't, that can and should be looked at on it's own terms.

I don't accept that can apply to every circumstance.

For example, if someone is guilty of covering up child abuse, or lying about child abuse, they should resign from public life. No just getting on with your career. Similarly, serious crimes, and I don't mean getting your driving licence taken away, should mean an end to your political career. Similarly, abuse of social housing, social welfare, tax fraud etc. should mean an end to a political career. The way that FG expelled Lowry is an example of what should happen. Other reasons to end a political career would be homophobic, racist and sectarian comments.

I do agree that lesser issues shouldn't result in careers being ended.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

I don't accept that can apply to every circumstance.

For example, if someone is guilty of covering up child abuse, or lying about child abuse, they should resign from public life. No just getting on with your career. Similarly, serious crimes, and I don't mean getting your driving licence taken away, should mean an end to your political career. Similarly, abuse of social housing, social welfare, tax fraud etc. should mean an end to a political career. The way that FG expelled Lowry is an example of what should happen. Other reasons to end a political career would be homophobic, racist and sectarian comments.

I do agree that lesser issues shouldn't result in careers being ended.

Expelled him but quite happy to include him as a member when the vote is tight. Sure.

Sorry, I thought you wanted to seriously engage on this topic, but clearly the boogeymen under your bed are up and about and stalking you.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Expelled him but quite happy to include him as a member when the vote is tight. Sure.

Sorry, I thought you wanted to seriously engage on this topic, but clearly the boogeymen under your bed are up and about and stalking you.

He is expelled from the organisation, as was Bailey, as was Murphy.

I am setting out some principles around behaviour and consequences that can be applied to multiple situations.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

He is expelled from the organisation, as was Bailey, as was Murphy.

I am setting out some principles around behaviour and consequences that can be applied to multiple situations.

Expelled for optics...there when he is needed. We get it.

JohnnyFlash

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Expelled for optics...there when he is needed. We get it.

So expelled, but not really expelled? Is that it, dude?

FrancieBrady

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

So expelled, but not really expelled? Is that it, dude?

Well, it isn't being very honest with the electorate. Expel somebody but then depend on them when 'the party' is under pressure.
A bit like pretending you are off the drink but having two whiskeys a night for 'medicinal purposes'.

Expel them and have nothing to do with them. That's what real expulsion means to me anyway.

jesus lads

this thread is pure drivel

why do ye engage

fg up high in the polls, twas obvious the line would go out from central to launch the usual paltry one note repeat attacks

counterproductive to bother responding dye not think

RandomViewer

blanch152 wrote: »

He is expelled from the organisation, as was Bailey, as was Murphy.

I am setting out some principles around behaviour and consequences that can be applied to multiple situations.

He has been pictured at FG events, he's attended briefings, wouldn't be surprised if he's e-mailed updates from Terri. No one believes he's not FG

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

A lot of very angry people in the outrage engine rooms of social media this weekend. Highly amusing to see.

Lashing out at Neale Richmond for being a Protestant, Leo for taking a few days holidays with Matt down in Clare, still dishing out abuse to Regina Doherty etc.

Good to see Eilish O’Hanlon become the latest journalist to speak out about how followers of one particular party are hiding behind anonymous online accounts to vomit up their vile hate and abuse. Another good article in the Examiner by Mick Clifford as well.

I know JF. Sure you can't even respond or query a post on a FG minister in a FG thread without fits from the gallery. Lots of anger.

Deleted User wrote: »

jesus lads

this thread is pure drivel

why do ye engage

fg up high in the polls, twas obvious the line would go out from central to launch the usual paltry one note repeat attacks

counterproductive to bother responding dye not think

Agreed. A few lads posted on Heather Humphreys and when I asked a few questions it all kicked off about shinners. You would think if they raised a FG topic in a FG thread they'd be willing to discuss it. Seems when FG folk do something untoward, change the topic.

James Brown

Sums up the attitude of the Fine Gael Party and it's current leader:

On today's programme she said, "When I met with the Taoiseach that August I was so angry that Ruth was being brought through the court and he promised that that would not happen. The State and the HSE sat side-by-side with the labs and fought that case tooth and nail."

She described the statement issued by Leo Varadkar yesterday after the death of Ms Morrissey as "insensitive" to have referenced "as Taoiseach, Mr Varadkar gave a formal state apology to all women and their families affected by the cervical check crisis in October 2019."

Ms Phelan said she believes it is too late for a formal apology for Ruth and her family, but that a fitting legacy for her friend would be "to bring screening home."

"There should have been an apology sent by both the State and the HSE at the end of March when the Supreme court came to its decision to Ruth and her family on the harm and the ordeal that they put her through", she said.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0720/1154340-lorraine-walsh-ruth-morrissey-tribute/

More interested in point scoring and saving face than making an effort to do the right thing.

Bishop of hope

Bowie wrote: »

Sums up the attitude of the Fine Gael Party and it's current leader:



More interested in point scoring and saving face than making an effort to do the right thing.

I have to admit this is farcical, that a govt and the HSE can apologise and admit they were wrong and still fight the victims of this terrible scandal.
There is no doubt about Leo's words ringing very hollow and even absurd in this case.
These women and their families deserve their justice without having to go through the courts for it.
Shame on all involved in the treatment of these ladies, sometimes all you can do is shake your head in disbelief at what went on and is going on.

Brendan Bendar

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

A lot of very angry people in the outrage engine rooms of social media this weekend. Highly amusing to see.

Lashing out at Neale Richmond for being a Protestant, Leo for taking a few days holidays with Matt down in Clare, still dishing out abuse to Regina Doherty etc.

Good to see Eilish O’Hanlon become the latest journalist to speak out about how followers of one particular party are hiding behind anonymous online accounts to vomit up their vile hate and abuse. Another good article in the Examiner by Mick Clifford as well.

Lot of anger in the steam rooms today, John.Well observed.

The ‘castrati’ seem to have gone top note at the prospect of not being able to hang anything on poor Heather.

Seems she was their odds on favourite to be outed with the corruption stick.

Must be the prospect of the economy in recovery that has them all riled up,like a nest of hornets.

Someone needs to stop ladling water on the stones or they’ll be casualties.

RandomViewer

Heathers buddies farm straddles the border, RSPCA will have him on the other side of the border and her letters will be wasted on them, 93% conviction rate