FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

efanton

Tea Shock wrote: »

Absolutely not true

They have EXACTLY the same powers to carry out existing legislation. They have no powers to introduce new legislation without the agreement of opposition TDs sufficient in number to create a majority. The likes of Regina Doherty, Shane Ross, Mary Mitchell O’Connor and Katherine Zappone, while they are still ministers in their respective departments with the same powers pertaining to legislation that existed at the end of the 32nd dail, they are no longer TDs. Having lost their seats, they do not re-enter the dail to cast a vote on new legislation. Nor do the plethora of back-bench Fine Gael TDs who lost their seats. Therefore the caretaker government do not have a dail majority of 1....or anything else!

Hence, you have Varadkar talking about what he needs to get the dail to agree to - without a murmur of public response from those who can offer the public the needed clarity (i.e Martin and McDonald).

Fair point, I'll give you that.

I cant see what the problem is though. If the government wanted to introduce reasonable legislation with regards the virus outbreak, I cannot see ANY opposition party killing it. In fact I would find it hard to believe that any party would vote against.

The telephones still work. All Leo has to do is pick up a phone, explain what legislation he want to put forward and get other party leaders opinions and whether they would support it. They would probably totally agree or suggest slight modifications but at the present time it would be a very brave party leader that would shoot down reasonable legislation if it was required to help combat this virus. He could then present it before the Dail and the legislation would be passed quickly and without drama.

beggars_bush

The opposition need to be able to scrutinise the legislation before they vote on it though

FrancieBrady

beggars_bush wrote: »

The opposition need to be able to scrutinise the legislation before they vote on it though

A sobering thought on this St. Patrick's Day...had the UK no opposition and no voices of dissent, they would not have changed direction and would be on their way to kill even more people.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51915302

So fair play to the government here on what they have done well so far but also fair play to those brave enough to stand up and be counted too.

all about the mane

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A sobering thought on this St. Patrick's Day...had the UK no opposition and no voices of dissent, they would not have changed direction and would be on their way to kill even more people.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51915302

So fair play to the government here on what they have done well so far but also fair play to those brave enough to stand up and be counted too.

I’ve never seen such reverence to the hurlers on the ditch

is_that_so

beggars_bush wrote: »

The opposition need to be able to scrutinise the legislation before they vote on it though

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/reduced-dail-will-sit-to-pass-emergency-legislation-relating-to-covid-19-987840.html

all about the mane

is_that_so wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/reduced-dail-will-sit-to-pass-emergency-legislation-relating-to-covid-19-987840.html

That article says a min of 1 metre between members. Has this not been increased to 2 now?

fly_agaric

efanton wrote: »

I did not vote FG in the election, nor do I ever intended to do so.
But a national government is the very last thing this country needs at the moment. There would be too much talking, arguing and criticising and very little doing.

Yes, this is a crisis/emergency situation.

Did not vote FG but the ministers in there now, whatever one may think of them or their politics & ideology (me - not much!) at least they have experience & understand their own departments/briefs.
We don't need and can't really afford a load of debating about a "national government" during this period (which could last for the next few of months) or a load of new ministers coming in.
The govt. seem to be taking their lead on this completely from the health experts here + internationally in other EU countries and from senior civil servants etc in the various departments & that is good enough for me. If there is "emergency" legislation that these experts deem necessary that needs to be passed through the Dáil it likely (unless I misunderstand?) can be once FG/ministers/officials have explained it sufficiently to the other parties.

Unfortunately we are in for a period of technocratic government to deal with this where normal politics takes a back seat.
Another quite unpleasant aspect of this time to go along with all the others.

blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

This John. We seldom agree, but this is spot on.

It takes some level of acting the bellend to try and score cheap political points over a health crises, the likes of which the world has never seen before.

Time for the numptiness to end, national govt needs to be formed to deal with this because everyone down the graveyard vote for the same party.

I work in an industry that would be deemed as an essential service, in other words without people in my line of work the country would quickly grind to a halt, and from what we have been briefed, the sh1t is really about to hit the fan big time, and with that in mind - petty squabbling micky measuring competitions about what colour your political party of choice is is insignificant in the extreme.

They all need to step up now, and row in behind each other more than ever.

I've 4 kids and a wife (also a frontline worker) who depend on me getting home every evening, so with that in mind, I could not give a flying flute if it's FF FG SF or whoever else is directing the country out of the impending sh1tstorm, now isn't the time for it.

I see what’s happening here.

The sh1t is hitting the fan now, and you are running scared of a Sinn Fein government, if you really had faith in Mary-Lou, you would be calling for her to form a minority government with C&S from the others. However, deep down, like most normal people, you realise she is not up to the task, and are crying out for real leaders.

We need a government that has the skills and experience to manage the country - that government shouldn’t include Sinn Fein. Man up and admit it.

Plumbthedepths

blanch152 wrote: »

I see what’s happening here.

The sh1t is hitting the fan now, and you are running scared of a Sinn Fein government, if you really had faith in Mary-Lou, you would be calling for her to form a minority government with C&S from the others. However, deep down, like most normal people, you realise she is not up to the task, and are crying out for real leaders.

We need a government that has the skills and experience to manage the country - that government shouldn’t include Sinn Fein. Man up and admit it.

You really have displayed how pathetic you truly are. Now as Johnny has said is not a time for division or point scoring. If you can't see that then I can only assume you have no interest in your country only that your 'team' prevails no matter what.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

I see what’s happening here.

The sh1t is hitting the fan now, and you are running scared of a Sinn Fein government, if you really had faith in Mary-Lou, you would be calling for her to form a minority government with C&S from the others. However, deep down, like most normal people, you realise she is not up to the task, and are crying out for real leaders.

We need a government that has the skills and experience to manage the country - that government shouldn’t include Sinn Fein. Man up and admit it.

There is no need for upheaval through this. All that is required is the spirit of a national government.

That requires the acting government not to be so arrogant to think that it has all the answers and to listen to other parties and people who spot lapses and failures.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There is no need for upheaval through this. All that is required is the spirit of a national government.

That requires the acting government not to be so arrogant to think that it has all the answers and to listen to other parties and people who spot lapses and failures.

Yes, because in the middle of all this we want more upheaval, change, and opinions on what to do and not to do.

The caretaker government is doing an excellent job the past week. SF missed their chance, them the breaks.

all about the mane

markodaly wrote: »

Yes, because in the middle of all this we want more upheaval, change, and opinions on what to do and not to do.

The caretaker government is doing an excellent job the past week. SF missed their chance, them the breaks.

Couldn't have happened at a worse time for SF. They were flying. FG will get a serious bounce from this. That said, it was similar with Brexit and then they shot themselves in the foot, in both feet! Nothing to say they won't do the same again.

smurgen

all about the mane wrote: »

Couldn't have happened at a worse time for SF. They were flying. FG will get a serious bounce from this. That said, it was similar with Brexit and then they shot themselves in the foot, in both feet! Nothing to say they won't do the same again.

You seem delighted at a global pandemic and potentially thousands of deaths because it helps quash the popularity of political rivals.

road_high

all about the mane wrote: »

Couldn't have happened at a worse time for SF. They were flying. FG will get a serious bounce from this. That said, it was similar with Brexit and then they shot themselves in the foot, in both feet! Nothing to say they won't do the same again.

Completely different to brexit as it’s hugely emotive and touching people and families personally. Brexit was abstract and didn’t resonate.
SF are looking farcical now- for several reasons- their bankrupting manifesto looks like a very bad comedy script now and the car crash up North where Mary lous protege is failing miserably. Can’t even get a few schools shut just endless excuses and hiding behind others. SF leadership in action.
Biggest of all nearly, SF are completely irrelevant

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Yes, because in the middle of all this we want more upheaval, change, and opinions on what to do and not to do.

The caretaker government is doing an excellent job the past week. SF missed their chance, them the breaks.

The caretaker government have done a good job, no doubt.

BUT, this is the easy bit. They need to keep responding to their mistakes and lapses being pointed out as they have been doing.

Plumbthedepths

road_high wrote: »

Completely different to brexit as it’s hugely emotive and touching people and families personally. Brexit was abstract and didn’t resonate.
SF are looking farcical now- for several reasons- their bankrupting manifesto looks like a very bad comedy script now and the car crash up North where Mary lous protege is failing miserably. Can’t even get a few schools shut just endless excuses and hiding behind others. SF leadership in action.
Biggest of all nearly, SF are completely irrelevant

Other than gobsh*tes on this thread do you think anyone gives a flying f**k about party politics when they are facing the possible loss of their own life ,that of loved ones or serious financial headaches. Absolute bunch of clowns on this thread. Btw I dislike him but I was impressed by Leo's honesty tonight.
Sorry in advance to the Mods.

olestoepoke

blanch152 wrote: »

I see what’s happening here.

The sh1t is hitting the fan now, and you are running scared of a Sinn Fein government, if you really had faith in Mary-Lou, you would be calling for her to form a minority government with C&S from the others. However, deep down, like most normal people, you realise she is not up to the task, and are crying out for real leaders.

We need a government that has the skills and experience to manage the country - that government shouldn’t include Sinn Fein. Man up and admit it.

Leo's speech went well and the govt seem to be doing a great job so credit where it is due but lets not forget the state FG left us in prior to the election. One charismatic speech does not write the last 4 years off.

Idbatterim

yeah! no he came across fine tonight, but you just cant look past the last few years...

road_high

olestoepoke wrote: »

Leo's speech went well and the govt seem to be doing a great job so credit where it is due but lets not forget the state FG left us in prior to the election. One charismatic speech does not write the last 4 years off.

Yes they left us in great shape economically whereby we can fight a very bad situation as best we can. Realty check re public spending and expenditure badly needed because some quarters seem to think it all just falls out of the sky and we just spend spend spend money we don’t have. This is the rainy day the rest of us have been warning about but others danced all over for dishonest political gain

olestoepoke

road_high wrote: »

Yes they left us in great shape economically whereby we can fight a very bad situation as best we can. Realty check re public spending and expenditure badly needed because some quarters seem to think it all just falls out of the sky and we just spend spend spend money we don’t have. This is the rainy day the rest of us have been warning about but others danced all over for dishonest political gain

There is more to running a country than looking after the economy. Do we need to talk about their many failings again?

orchard farm

In times of crisis the country loves fine gael because of there prudent policies in good times the people think there too boring.in my opinion there the only party capable of running this country been proven time and again since they founded the state.imagine having SF wreckless manifesto in government these days

smurgen

orchard farm wrote: »

In times of crisis the country loves fine gael because of there prudent policies in good times the people think there too boring.in my opinion there the only party capable of running this country been proven time and again since they founded the state.imagine having SF wreckless manifesto in government these days

So will FG stop job losses that are coming? They've been prudent right? Will they pay mortgages going forward and force the banks that the people bailed out to give the people a bail out? They will in their holes. They've been weak and haven't made any hard decisions.our borders are still open. His speech was incredibly light on detail and cliché riddled. It's all optics . Typical FG.

Idbatterim

orchard farm wrote: »

In times of crisis the country loves fine gael because of there prudent policies in good times the people think there too boring.in my opinion there the only party capable of running this country been proven time and again since they founded the state.imagine having SF wreckless manifesto in government these days

the problem is, when you are the other side of rip off property prices, believe me, you would see that as wreckless and would not be singing from the same hymn sheet!

road_high

orchard farm wrote: »

In times of crisis the country loves fine gael because of there prudent policies in good times the people think there too boring.in my opinion there the only party capable of running this country been proven time and again since they founded the state.imagine having SF wreckless manifesto in government these days

Only show in town. Having SF in now would be akin to sawing off all limbs. Was all for sticking them to show us how “great” they’d be but delighted in this crisis MLM bottled it completely. Politically it would bury SF but some things are far more important, for now

efanton

road_high wrote: »

Completely different to brexit as it’s hugely emotive and touching people and families personally. Brexit was abstract and didn’t resonate.
SF are looking farcical now- for several reasons- their bankrupting manifesto looks like a very bad comedy script now and the car crash up North where Mary lous protege is failing miserably. Can’t even get a few schools shut just endless excuses and hiding behind others. SF leadership in action.
Biggest of all nearly, SF are completely irrelevant

It annoys me intensely when supposed grown mature people drop to a schoolchild level of reasoning and glee during event like this.

Sf dont look farcical, they are not in government and have no role to play but support government and health service actions, which is exactly what they are doing.

Their manifesto was not bankrupting, It was well with the existing fiscal space. Would you care to show how it was bankrupting?

The Northern Ireland executive is NOT a government. Nor do SF or any other party have complete control. At best it could be viewed as a super county council where the British Government controls legislation and taxation along with budgets.
Sf have been calling on the for schools to be close for well over a week now. THe DUP are still supporting the UK view, which according to the news today is about to do a complete about turn. Without DUP support, or the British government declaring that all UK schools should be closed, there is nothing they can do.

Why are you at all worried about the support levels for SF. Are you afraid that FG and FF cant get agreement for a program of government? Are you still worried there will be another general election?

If there is another general election the opposite for what you suggest wold be true. Now more than ever housing will be the next biggest issue besides the virus outbreak. There are people now at this very moment reading this who have lost their jobs and are probably wondering how they will pay their rent or mortgage at the end of the month.
I notice FG have yet to put in any concrete measures to protect tenants and mortgage holders who are unable to pay their rent/mortgage. Things have been rapidly evolving so you would forgive them for not addressing this sooner, but it is the next big time-bomb on the list.

The reality still is if there is a second general election SF will grab yet more seats and a bigger share of the vote.

The only thing that's irrelevant is childish posts like your still trying to make political potshots that are either inaccurate or completely pointless.

Until there is a new government formed, EVERYONE, should be supporting the current government. I say that as someone who has never voted FG, nor do I ever intend to do so in the future.

But making silly political potshots is neither helpful or supportive at this time. Thankfully opposition parties have had the good sense to go silent, and let the existing government for as long as it lasts, along with state agencies get on with the difficult task facing them. Instead of criticising SF and other parties you should appreciate that they are doing exactly what they should be doing in the current situation.

road_high

smurgen wrote: »

So will FG stop job losses that are coming? They've been prudent right? Will they pay mortgages going forward and force the banks that the people bailed out to give the people a bail out? They will in their holes. They've been weak and haven't made any hard decisions.our borders are still open. His speech was incredibly light on detail and cliché riddled. It's all optics . Typical FG.

No but a bad situation will be a lot less bad than it could have with a busted flush like SF having fiddled the economy for a few years. For all the Shinners crowing about the crisis being apolitical they seem awfully determined to make it political about FG perceived past shortcomings!

road_high

efanton wrote: »

It annoys me intensely when supposed grown mature people drop to a schoolchild level of reasoning and glee during event like this.

Sf dont look farcical, they are not in government and have no role to play but support government and health service actions, which is exactly what they are doing.

Their manifesto was not bankrupting, It was well with the existing fiscal space. Would you care to show how it was bankrupting?

The Northern Ireland executive is NOT a government. Nor do SF or any other party have complete control. At best it could be viewed as a super county council where the British Government controls legislation and taxation along with budgets.
Sf have been calling on the for schools to be close for well over a week now. THe DUP are still supporting the UK view, which according to the news today is about to do a complete about turn. Without DUP support, or the British government declaring that all UK schools should be closed, there is nothing they can do.

Why are you at all worried about the support levels for SF. Are you afraid that FG and FF cant get agreement for a program of government? Are you still worried there will be another general election?

If there is another general election the opposite for what you suggest wold be true. Now more than ever housing will be the next biggest issue besides the virus outbreak. There are people now at this very moment reading this who have lost their jobs and are probably wondering how they will pay their rent or mortgage at the end of the month.
I notice FG have yet to put in any concrete measures to protect tenants and mortgage holders who are unable to pay their rent/mortgage. Things have been rapidly evolving so you would forgive them for not addressing this sooner, but it is the next big time-bomb on the list.

The reality still is if there is a second general election SF will grab yet more seats and a bigger share of the vote.

The only thing that's irrelevant is childish posts like your still trying to make political potshots that are either inaccurate or completely pointless.

Until there is a new government formed, EVERYONE, should be supporting the current government. I say that as someone who has never voted FG, nor do I ever intend to do so in the future.

But making silly political potshots is neither helpful or supportive at this time. Thankfully opposition parties have had the good sense to go silent, and let the existing government for as long as it lasts, along with state agencies get on with the difficult task facing them. Instead of criticising SF and other parties you should appreciate that they are doing exactly what they should be doing in the current situation.

I don’t have the time to reply to all this but one point stood out- SF winning more seats? For jasus sake wake the fcuk up. The whole thing has been completely ripped up and turned on its head. It’s survival we are talking about here and people get used to it and adjust expectations accordingly

all about the mane

smurgen wrote: »

You seem delighted at a global pandemic and potentially thousands of deaths because it helps quash the popularity of political rivals.

You are paranoid. I am not delighting in this at all. If anything I was criticising FG and their talent for messing up. look how popular they were due to Brexit performance and then look how quickly they fell.
try to read a post for what it is and try not to overthink things.

(delighted at the thought of deaths...grow up)

orchard farm

road_high wrote: »

I don’t have the time to reply to all this but one point stood out- SF winning more seats? For jasus sake wake the fcuk up. The whole thing has been completely ripped up and turned on its head. It’s survival we are talking about here and people get used to it and adjust expectations accordingly

100%correct

smurgen

road_high wrote: »

I don’t have the time to reply to all this but one point stood out- SF winning more seats? For jasus sake wake the fcuk up. The whole thing has been completely ripped up and turned on its head. It’s survival we are talking about here and people get used to it and adjust expectations accordingly

You're the one who said they're manifesto is useless now. All manifesto are useless now. The caretaker government is caretaking.lets have another election after all is said and done.until then let's all pull together and not single out political opponents to take cheap shots against.