FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

satguy

I can only imagine what FG would be doing now, if one of Dinny's companies built respirators,, But on the bright side.

Even I can admit they are doing a good job,, it's just a shame there'er so corrupt..

all about the mane

smurgen wrote: »

You seem delighted at a global pandemic and potentially thousands of deaths because it helps quash the popularity of political rivals.

smurgen wrote: »

You're the one who said they're manifesto is useless now. All manifesto are useless now. The caretaker government is caretaking.lets have another election after all is said and done.until then let's all pull together and not single out political opponents to take cheap shots against.

take your own advice

Has there even been a thread title so inaccurate? Do nothing except lead the country through the greatest public health crisis since TB was brought under control?

all about the mane

Deleted User wrote: »

Has there even been a thread title so inaccurate? Do nothing except lead the country through the greatest public health crisis since TB was brought under control?

Its a laughable OP but the thread has plenty debate as there is plenty participation from all sides

smurgen

olestoepoke wrote: »

Leo's speech went well and the govt seem to be doing a great job so credit where it is due but lets not forget the state FG left us in prior to the election. One charismatic speech does not write the last 4 years off.

His speech was probably written by at least 2 consultants and then ran past a focus group.lets not backslap too hard until they make hard decisions and put FG skin in the game.

satguy

all about the mane wrote: »

Its a laughable OP but the thread has plenty debate as there is plenty participation from all sides

Once again, let it be pointed out that, this thread pre dates the coronavirus outbreak..

smurgen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Has there even been a thread title so inaccurate? Do nothing except lead the country through the greatest public health crisis since TB was brought under control?

What did they do?they asked people to do things but didn't actually change any laws.can I please get an actual list. No Cheltenham banned.no consultantation with UK government until recent.no bailout of households.no bailout of business.no banning of Patricks day festivals. No flights stopped.no borders closed. Can I get a list of actual stuff that they enforced instead of requested? Until now I'd argue they're reliant on social pressure that Irish people have enforced themselves.

all about the mane

smurgen wrote: »

What did they do?they asked people to do things but didn't actually change any laws.can I please get an actual list. No Cheltenham banned.no consultantation with UK government until recent.no bailout of households.no bailout of business.no banning of Patricks day festivals. No flights stopped.no borders closed. Can I get a list of actual stuff that they enforced instead of requested? Until now I'd argue they're reliant on social pressure that Irish people have enforced themselves.

Where is Cheltenham? Seriously

And if you had a clue about how negotiation works you would know that it is far easier to get people to play ball if they want to and are not forced to. Especially when we are facing into an indefinite period.

Jinglejangle69

Michael Martin could be Taoiseach next week.

Mad times.

all about the mane

satguy wrote: »

Once again, let it be pointed out that, this thread pre dates the coronavirus outbreak..

Doesn't matter. you claimed that they would do nothing. They haven't. you claimed that people who voted for them would regret it. They haven't. And in fact, others are saying that they should have voted for them now. Just look at the covid thread.

smurgen

all about the mane wrote: »

Where is Cheltenham? Seriously

Did they insist on it being stopped or discuss the need to stop it with the UK government? Just checked arrivals in Dublin airport. Flights in arrivals due in from highly infected areas the next week straight. None from Italy though so fair play to FG. Oh wait no. It was the Italian government than done that. I guess that's one the FG lads can't claim

Bullocks

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Michael Martin could be Taoiseach next week.

Mad times.

Yeah , mad alright . Hope Leo stays

smurgen

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Michael Martin could be Taoiseach next week.

Mad times.

Is this some spin unit fairy tail setting scene? You guys must be fans of Reese Moggs old man writing his books "Blood in the streets" a guide on how to make gains during times of disaster.

all about the mane

smurgen wrote: »

Did they insist on it being stopped or discuss the need to stop it with the UK government? Just checked arrivals in Dublin airport. Flights in arrivals due in from highly infected areas the next week straight. None from Italy though so fair play to FG. Oh wait no. It was the Italian government than done that. I guess that's one the FG lads can't claim

It wouldn't matter what they insisted on. Cheltenham is in England!FG are not trying to claim anything. They are just trying to keep the show on the road. Stop your bashing and realise the predicament WE are in.

For me the priority is to try and work with north of the border. I think that will decide if we win or lose this war. And be very certain, it is a war.

https://www.ted.com/talks/bill_gates_the_next_outbreak_we_re_not_ready?language=en

Lord Nelson

Can't help noticing that the Shinners have gone very quiet all of a sudden? A few weeks ago they were screaming to get their hands on the levers of power. Now that there's a health crisis and real work to be done, they don't seem so anxious to lead us all to the promised land!!

Jinglejangle69

smurgen wrote: »

Is this some spin unit fairy tail setting scene? You guys must be fans of Reese Moggs old man writing his books "Blood in the streets" a guide on how to make gains during times of disaster.

They are resuming government formation talks tomorrow.

Why are you always so aggressive and so argumentative?

smurgen

all about the mane wrote: »

It wouldn't matter what they insisted on. Cheltenham is in England!FG are not trying to claim anything. They are just trying to keep the show on the road. Stop your bashing and realise the predicament WE are in.

For me the priority is to try and work with north of the border. I think that will decide if we win or lose this war. And be very certain, it is a war.

https://www.ted.com/talks/bill_gates_the_next_outbreak_we_re_not_ready?language=en

You're bashing SF and have been. A bit rich.i realize the predicament we're in which is why I want decisive action taken now.

efanton

orchard farm wrote: »

In times of crisis the country loves fine gael because of there prudent policies in good times the people think there too boring.in my opinion there the only party capable of running this country been proven time and again since they founded the state.imagine having SF wreckless manifesto in government these days

Financial prudence should be pretty far down the list especially when it comes to dealing with this virus outbreak.

FG have been far from fiscally prudent. Spending 1 billion a year renting private accommodation for social and emergency housing use, year on year, is far from prudent.
Signing contracts for hospitals and other capital projects with no fixed costs, no penalties and no deadlines is hardly prudent either, especially when these projects end up costing twice as much or more than planned.
Enforcing a recruitment ban in the health services could hardly be called prudent, especially when the money they gave away in tax breaks would have easily covered the recruitment costs. We still have empty beds in our hospitals that cant be used due to under staffing issues, exactly what we do not need in current circumstances.
There a huge long list of thing FG have done that have not been prudent, unless what you mean by prudent is that you subsidise businesses at the expense of national services so that you can see GDP grow and that's all you care about.

The forced closure of Pubs, restaurants and other public venues was the right thing to do. But to believe that these are temporary measures that will only last until the end of the months is pure lunacy.
Those measures are likely to be in place for months at a minimum, and possibly longer depending on how close the laboratories are to getting a vaccine and how quickly the virus spreads.

Those measures, and further measure yet to come, will also have significant consequences. Landlords might be minded to forbear missed rent for a month or two, but once it goes beyond that what happens then? The government have yet to put in place any protection for tenants nor address where the rental payments are going to come from.
Similarly for those with mortgages. The banks might tolerate a few missed payments, but whats to stop them initiating action to terminate a mortgage in 3 or 4 months time.
Both the banks and landlords can not survive months of non payment, and it would be unrealistic to expect them to do so. If no money is going into the banks where do you think the money is going to come from for small business overdrafts and loans necessary to keep those businesses afloat until they can recommence trading.

The problem here is the fair and best thing to do would be for the government to step in and make interim payments and claw that money back later over an extended period of time once the virus crisis has passed. Those payments will enable the country to be up and running as soon as it is possible, allow banks to continue to support small businesses so that people actually have jobs to go back to, and prevent evictions of tenants and mortgage holder unable to make payment. There's a few billion in surplus that could be used and that should be enough to tide the country over for a number of months
But this probably is not the most prudent thing to do.

So is prudence a good thing? Maybe not in current circumstances.
The question is will FG, protect the landlords and the banks at the expense of the people that were made jobless through government action? will they make some form of interim payments? or will they do as little as possible and let small businesses, mortgage holder and tenants fend for themselves because that might be the most financially prudent thing to do?

What good will prudence do if the country has mass unemployment, thousands of businesses going bankrupt, and people potentially losing their homes?

smurgen

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

They are resuming government formation talks tomorrow.

Why are you always so aggressive and so argumentative?

Very rich from yourself in particular.I've seen yourself and blanch attack anyone not singing from the FG hymn sheet rabidly for months. I will remain on point on call out the spin by yourself and others all day and night. I tired to give the benefit of the doubt but the cynical approach I've seen lately as stomach churning.i genuinely thought Irish politics was better than this.

all about the mane

smurgen wrote: »

You're bashing SF and have been. A bit rich.i realize the predicament we're in which is why I want decisive action taken now.

I'm not bashing SF. I said they were flying and this couldn't have come at a worse time for them (as a party). Stop being so bloody sensitive!

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

I see what’s happening here.

The sh1t is hitting the fan now, and you are running scared of a Sinn Fein government, if you really had faith in Mary-Lou, you would be calling for her to form a minority government with C&S from the others. However, deep down, like most normal people, you realise she is not up to the task, and are crying out for real leaders.

We need a government that has the skills and experience to manage the country - that government shouldn’t include Sinn Fein. Man up and admit it.

I repeat, I couldn't give a fcuk if it's FF FG SF or anyone else giving out the orders - the country needs national governance now, not the likes of blanch or other cheerleaders roaring along scoring points.

You have, over the course of a number of weeks now since the election results exposed yourself as the complete and utter cretin you are.

smurgen

all about the mane wrote: »

I'm not bashing SF. I said they were flying and this couldn't have come at a worse time for them (as a party). Stop being so bloody sensitive!

If you genuinely put the optics aside so will the rest of us. I will give pats on the back where and will give praise. But until then I will call out the ****e and call out those taking credit for things they'd no hand in.
We've an extremely long and treacherous road ahead. Here's hoping everyone in the Dail is pulling together and fighting in our interest. We could have tens of thousands of our country men and women in the ground within the next 6 months. Let's hope we pull out all the stops to reduce the impact. There's going to be extremely hard decisions to be made. Life will not be the same again after this is finished and we will need to re-evaluate where we are as a country afterwards.

all about the mane

smurgen wrote: »

If you genuinely put the optics aside so will the rest of us. I will give pats on the back where and will give praise. But until then I will call out the ****e and call out those taking credit for things they'd no hand in.
We've an extremely long and treacherous road ahead. Here's hoping everyone in the Dail is pulling together and fighting in our interest. We could have tens of thousands of our country men and women in the ground within the next 6 months. Let's hope we pull out all the stops to reduce the impact. There's going to be extremely hard decisions to be made. Life will not be the same again after this is finished and we will need to re-evaluate where we are as a country afterwards.

This:)

efanton

smurgen wrote: »

If you genuinely put the optics aside so will the rest of us. I will give pats on the back where and will give praise. But until then I will call out the ****e and call out those taking credit for things they'd no hand in.
We've an extremely long and treacherous road ahead. Here's hoping everyone in the Dail is pulling together and fighting in our interest. We could have tens of thousands of our country men and women in the ground within the next 6 months. Let's hope we pull out all the stops to reduce the impact. There's going to be extremely hard decisions to be made. Life will not be the same again after this is finished and we will need to re-evaluate where we are as a country afterwards.

That sums it up perfectly.

Petty political squabbles or point scoring as seems to be the norm on this forum really are out of place at this time.

I dont like what FG stand for but I am sure as hell rooting for the existing government at the moment. They have done a good job so far by leaving the politics aside and just implementing expert advice, lets hope they continue like that.

The really tough decisions are yet to be made where there will be choices in how the government spends or refuses to spend very substantial sums of money. Let's hope those too are based on expert advice rather than political dogma or beliefs.
It would be nice to think that was everyone else's opinion at the moment.

tobsey

smurgen wrote: »

What did they do?they asked people to do things but didn't actually change any laws.can I please get an actual list. No Cheltenham banned.no consultantation with UK government until recent.no bailout of households.no bailout of business.no banning of Patricks day festivals. No flights stopped.no borders closed. Can I get a list of actual stuff that they enforced instead of requested? Until now I'd argue they're reliant on social pressure that Irish people have enforced themselves.

Wtf? They closed schools last week. Advised everyone who can work from to do so. Paddy’s day events cancelled. All outdoor events over 500 people cancelled. All indoor over 100 also. Closed all pubs. Opening testing centres all over the country. Hiring healthcare staff. Redeploying public sector workers to critical services. Implemented a massive publicity campaign on social distancing. That’s all in the last 5 days!!!!

They haven’t enacted legislation purely because the Dail hasn’t been sitting. There is legislation lined up and ready to go when the Dail opens on Thursday. And before you criticise them for not calling the Dail in sooner I haven’t heard anyone else doing that either.

Also don’t read Boards and assume that’s the general Irish public’s stance. I was in a golf club on Monday and a guy who knew some of my playing partners went to shake my hand. I’m a match secretary with a badminton club which means I organise match fixtures and I was asked by an opposing team if we wanted to try organise a match that still needs to be played. There are plenty of absolute idiots in this country who aren’t listening to what’s being said. The pubs were jam packed at the weekend until the government decided to close them. Don’t pretend the Irish people made them do it. It was mostly Irish people in those pubs.

tobsey

smurgen wrote: »

If you genuinely put the optics aside so will the rest of us. I will give pats on the back where and will give praise. But until then I will call out the ****e and call out those taking credit for things they'd no hand in.
We've an extremely long and treacherous road ahead. Here's hoping everyone in the Dail is pulling together and fighting in our interest. We could have tens of thousands of our country men and women in the ground within the next 6 months. Let's hope we pull out all the stops to reduce the impact. There's going to be extremely hard decisions to be made. Life will not be the same again after this is finished and we will need to re-evaluate where we are as a country afterwards.

You’re second paragraph is 100% correct, but your first is completely at odds with it.

didnt think there was anythin special about the speech, some of if was tbh a bit of a cringefest

but i think the govt is doing well in general

not sure that martin would be doing any better

having a govt with experience of running things undoubtedly a benefit to us all right now

formation of new govt should absolutely wait

the absence of the shinners in anything but a heckling capacity since all this started is very noticeable.

i hope the 12 odd % voters that ran to them agree, but thats democracy

all about the mane

Deleted User wrote: »

didnt think there was anythin special about the speech, some of if was tbh a bit of a cringefest

but i think the govt is doing well in general

not sure that martin would be doing any better

having a govt with experience of running things undoubtedly a benefit to us all right now

formation of new govt should absolutely wait

the absence of the shinners in anything but a heckling capacity since all this started is very noticeable.

i hope the 12 odd % voters that ran to them agree, but thats democracy

For me, Leo just doesn't come across as genuine. He never has. He is a bad choice of leader for FG.

michealkc

Fine Gael took power post Fianna Fail catastrophe in 2010 and delivered the economy back to stable condition and country back to a relatively good place. (There will always be things that got messed up but overall the 10s was a decade of improvement) I could not understand how that good work was forgotten in the recent election results. They are now effectively a caretaker govt. back dealing with an unforeseen pile of poo before they are out the door. Nobody's fault. The chips are down again as they were 10 years ago and I am impressed with all the actions taken so far and the timing of these actions. I am not loyal to a party but just talking about what I am seeing. I am sure Micheal Martin would be a good leader but he had turned a blind eye to the absolute disgraceful and irresponsible leadership that Bertie Ahern delivered which in turn lead to the recession and hard times for working people. Bertie was trained up by Haughey and the less we say about that man the better. He was not a good human.

Last option is Sinn Fein. Would everybody be comfortable and reassured right now if Mary Lou was leading us through this covid challenge and in the aftermath over the next year? Do we all think she is the best candidate in terms of experience for the potential crisis of a generation.

I know I would prefer Coveney, Harris and Donohue etc. to get us out of the mire. FG has a track record of recovery. After this next 6 to 12 months, if the country wants change/SF etc. I would accept that.

I am just a citizen who has worked through the boom, struggled through the recession, got a bit of stability in my life over the last 10 years (and it took the full 10). Just hoping that this challenge doesn't hit us too hard.

Idbatterim

all about the mane wrote: »

For me, Leo just doesn't come across as genuine. He never has. He is a bad choice of leader for FG.

agreed, but I dont rate any of them POD, Coveney, Varadkar etc, the only one I rated at all, they kicked out of the party :rolleyes: