FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

efanton

post deleted. replied to wrong thread

Shefwedfan

efanton wrote: »

Yes, and then some

NTR the private company that had a stake in the M50 toll recouped its costs of building the M50 bridge all the way back in 2007/2008.

The bridge cost NTR €58m to build, and they have been making in excess of to €40m a year profit since. Apparently the bridge is now in sole ownership of the state, but the tolls have not gone away.

From 2005 to 2020 it is estimated that the tolls generated €936 million in revenue, of which €616 million, net of taxes, went to NTR

In essence the Irish motorist/taxpayer has spent close to a BILLION euro for a bridge that should have cost less than €60 million to build.

Do you still believe and trust in Public/private projects representing value for money?




https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/private-firm-to-reap-115bn-bonanza-from-m50-toll-deal-26628381.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/state-bodies-to-get-936m-from-tolls-on-m50-bridge-1.477789

You do realise the M50 was massively updated recently......plus what about newlands cross?


Did that money just magic itself up



:P:P:P:P

efanton

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You do realise the M50 was massively updated recently......plus what about newlands cross?


Did that money just magic itself up



:P:P:P:P

I have no doubt lots of things have been built since. That is not the point.

the point was the government at the time (FF I believe) introduced tolls and brought in a private contractor to build and operate the toll on the promise that this was a cheaper and more affordable way to get this particular public infrastructure built.

THe M50 toll was never itended to be a cash cow, the toll was supposed to be in place for as long as it took for the company that built it to recoup their costs and make a REASONABLE profit.

I do not call €500+ million a reasonable profit on a €58 million investment, I would call that outlandish.

Even if you did agree with the principal of Tolling, which I dont, why would FF hand over a structure that costs €60 to build and generate so much profit to a private enterprise.

Remember €600 million of the tolls collected HAVE NOT been spent on further public infrastructure they have gone directly to a private company.
I'm sure that money would have paid, or almost paid, for all further upgrades of the M50

So are you still going to argue that Public/private infrastructure projects offer good value for money?

Shefwedfan

efanton wrote: »

I have no doubt lots of things have been built since. That is not the point.

the point was the government at the time (FF I believe) introduced tolls and brought in a private contractor to build and operate the toll on the promise that this was a cheaper and more affordable way to get this particular public infrastructure built.

THe M50 toll was never itended to be a cash cow, the toll was supposed to be in place for as long as it took for the company that built it to recoup their costs and make a REASONABLE profit.

I do not call €500+ million a reasonable profit on a €58 million investment, I would call that outlandish.

Even if you did agree with the principal of Tolling, which I dont, why would FF hand over a structure that costs €60 to build and generate so much profit to a private enterprise.

Remember €600 million of the tolls collected HAVE NOT been spent on further public infrastructure they have gone directly to a private company.
I'm sure that money would have paid, or almost paid, for all further upgrades of the M50

So are you still going to argue that Public/private infrastructure project offer good value for money?

Your going in circle, need to stop reading the SF bulls**t

If you don’t want to use the m50 get public transport

Runaways

Aren’t FG planning to spend billions building a national broadband network to then hand it over to a private interest for profit?

I’m sure I heard that somewhere

FrancieBrady

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Your going in circle, need to stop reading the SF bulls**t

If you don’t want to use the m50 get public transport

'SF bull****'?

Where did he/she mention SF?

blanch152

efanton wrote: »

Thanks for the link. Yes I was mislead, being that I saw tolls being collected by a private company. I was not aware they were contract by Transport Infrastructure Ireland.

But my point is still valid. Why are people still having to pay for tolls on the M50 when that project and the sub contractors who built it have been fully paid for?
Another broken promise by the existing and previous governments.
Worse, why have those tolls be allowed to increase being that the project was fully paid for? It is a public road and should be funded through motor tax.

There should be tolls across the M50.

They should be in inverse relationship to the distance travelled.

Runaways

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Your going in circle, need to stop reading the SF bulls**t

If you don’t want to use the m50 get public transport

Sorry but that’s a really childish attempt at retort.

Ps you’ll find the vast almost complete majority of the doleites and waster you all so despise don’t use the m50. Not having cars and mainly using public transport.

That same cohort rarely of ever turns up to vote either. So it wasn’t them voted for SF in any significant numbers.

You’re going to have to wrap your head around the fact that SF are the now most popular party in the country and it wasn’t down to any populism.

Childish and Ill informed to suggest it is.

We’re an educated and tuned in population and electorate thanks to our small size nothing much slips last even the most uninterested person.

Listen to 98fm any day of in doubt of that.

They’re only going to become more popular if FFFG shack up again and implement more austerity which is likely.

They’re going to get savaged completely next election if they do. They’re done for.

blanch152

Runaways wrote: »

Aren’t FG planning to spend billions building a national broadband network to then hand it over to a private interest for profit?

I’m sure I heard that somewhere

Yes you did, on some fake news propaganda website.

The national broadband plan is a bad idea, but not for the reasons you state,

blanch152

Runaways wrote: »

Sorry but that’s a really childish attempt at retort.

Ps you’ll find the vast almost complete majority of the doleites and waster you all so despise don’t use the m50. Not having cars and mainly using public transport.

That same cohort rarely of ever turns up to vote either. So it wasn’t them voted for SF in any significant numbers.

You’re going to have to wrap your head around the fact that SF are the now most popular party in the country and it wasn’t down to any populism.

Childish and Ill informed to suggest it is.

We’re an educated and tuned in population and electorate thanks to our small size nothing much slips last even the most uninterested person.

Listen to 98fm any day of in doubt of that.

They’re only going to become more popular if FFFG shack up again and implement more austerity which is likely.

They’re going to get savaged completely next election if they do. They’re done for.

Lol.

Delusionally funny post.

We can’t even socially isolate properly, yes, a majority of the population is well-educated but it is the 25% of the population mired in the entitlement culture who are going to kill us all,

Runaways

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes you did, on some fake news propaganda website.

The national broadband plan is a bad idea, but not for the reasons you state,

It’s not a bad idea it’s vital for continued FDI and infrastructure nationwide moving on away from everything conglomerating around Dublin.

We have and are moving into the regions. we have to. And without a serviced working broadband structure our economy and development will wither

Runaways

blanch152 wrote: »

Lol.

Delusionally funny post.

We can’t even socially isolate properly, yes, a majority of the population is well-educated but it is the 25% of the population mired in the entitlement culture who are going to kill us all,

Your never ending obsession with sf is rather worrying blanch. Unhealthy.
I don’t see an entitlement culture except maybe in the leafier posher regions of Dublin.

But you know that.

Suckit

Runaways wrote: »

Aren’t FG planning to spend billions building a national broadband network to then hand it over to a private interest for profit?
I’m sure I heard that somewhere

From 2018
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/denis-o-brien-s-entry-provides-another-twist-to-state-s-broadband-saga-1.3636244


Last year
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/q-a-what-is-the-broadband-plan-and-what-happens-next-1.4084036


https://www.thejournal.ie/government-sign-national-broadband-plan-4896090-Nov2019/

efanton

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Your going in circle, need to stop reading the SF bulls**t

If you don’t want to use the m50 get public transport

LOL. It would be very hard for me to use either, I dont live in Dublin.

That bullsh!t I was reading was the Irish Times.
Would you suggest me reading the Irish Sun instead?

Maybe you could suggest to me a paper that I should read instead?
Do FG publish something similar to An Phoblacht, that might be an entertaining read

blanch152

Runaways wrote: »

It’s not a bad idea it’s vital for continued FDI and infrastructure nationwide moving on away from everything conglomerating around Dublin.

We have and are moving into the regions. we have to. And without a serviced working broadband structure our economy and development will wither

Yawn, back to the future of DeValera’s Ireland of comely maidens dancing at the crossroads.

The future is the cities - Cork, Waterford, Limerick and Galway - as well as a few other towns like Athlone and Sligo. It isn’t every hamlet in the country and every gombeen ribbon development along country roads.

efanton

blanch152 wrote: »

There should be tolls across the M50.

They should be in inverse relationship to the distance travelled.

Because more congestion is exactly what Dublin needs.

Tolls are a terrible way to pay for public infrastructure. They encourage those should use it most (heavy vehicles and company vehicles) to try use alternative routes defeating the whole point of them.

FrancieBrady

Things that happen because opposition put governments under pressure:

Paschal Donohoe, the finance minister, said it was not possible for the state to interfere to prevent evictions but called for landlords to exercise “forbearance” with their tenants

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/state-bears-responsibility-for-renters-who-lose-jobs-due-to-coronavirus-3xr3cm0w3

The Government has announced a temporary ban on evictions and a pause on rent increases for an initial period of three months, while the Covid-19 crisis is ongoing.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0319/1124168-evictions-ban-coronavirus/

Results the fanboys and girls do not want to see.

Insurance companies being pressured the same way.

Runaways

blanch152 wrote: »

Yawn, back to the future of DeValera’s Ireland of comely maidens dancing at the crossroads.

The future is the cities - Cork, Waterford, Limerick and Galway - as well as a few other towns like Athlone and Sligo. It isn’t every hamlet in the country and every gombeen ribbon development along country roads.

Who hurt you ?

It’s fine gaels idea. Not Sinn Feins.

That’s gotta rankle.
Itt was exactly those towns i was referencing. You also know that.

Your post didn’t make much sense either thh

Shefwedfan

efanton wrote: »

LOL. It would be very hard for me to use either, I dont live in Dublin.

That bullsh!t I was reading was the Irish Times.
Would you suggest me reading the Irish Sun instead?

Maybe you could suggest to me a paper that I should read instead?
Do FG publish something similar to An Phoblacht, that might be an entertaining read

I suggest you don’t read boards

Job done...

Right next

Shefwedfan

efanton wrote: »

Because more congestion is exactly what Dublin needs.

Tolls are a terrible way to pay for public infrastructure. They encourage those should use it most (heavy vehicles and company vehicles) to try use alternative routes defeating the whole point of them.

Dublin needs public transport which m50 pays towards, the toll should reduce people usage of the road but it doesn’t.....

Taking a toll off the m50 would just increase traffic on it....less people using public transport

Why would company vehicles not use it?

efanton

Runaways wrote: »

Who hurt you ?

It’s fine gaels idea. Not Sinn Feins.

That’s gotta rankle.
Itt was exactly those towns i was referencing. You also know that.

Your post didn’t make much sense either thh

The problem is a national broadband network is a brilliant idea.
It solves many issues, allows businesses to locate to cheaper premises, reduces pressure on housing in the cities, encourages new business, attracts FDI.

THe issue as always is how do we pay for it.
As normal FG tried to go the cheap route and get someone else to provide world class infrastructre at 3rd world prices which was ever going to work.

The suggestion that we use the ESB network as a back bone to me was an absolutely brilliant idea and got rid of a lot of the costs and problems associated with such a massive project (planning, purchase of land, digging of trenches, digging up roads etc etc).

Of course when you ask a 3rd party vendor to take on such a project they want ownership of the infrastructure, so using existing state owned infrastructure was never going to be an option for them.

Why does this country actually do what any other country does. Put in the back bone using the ESB networks and other state infrastructure and pay for that and keep the back bone state owned and then let the telecoms companies take spurs of of that. Would be a lot cheaper and quicker in the long run.

Shefwedfan

The more interesting one is port tunnel, 10 euro in morning and I use sometimes for work and you have a traffic jam in it...even one morning stopping people going in because traffic was so bad.....now that’s a rant for ya

Runaways

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Dublin needs public transport which m50 pays towards, the toll should reduce people usage of the road but it doesn’t.....

Taking a toll off the m50 would just increase traffic on it....less people using public transport

Why would company vehicles not use it?

Using public transport where can you get to and go to using the m50?

smurgen

Runaways wrote: »

Who hurt you ?

It’s fine gaels idea. Not Sinn Feins.

That’s gotta rankle.
Itt was exactly those towns i was referencing. You also know that.

Your post didn’t make much sense either thh

Leave him off.just bitter that the leader off the party he allegedly follows is a national laughing stock talking about growing salads during a crisis.

efanton

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Dublin needs public transport which m50 pays towards, the toll should reduce people usage of the road but it doesn’t.....

Taking a toll off the m50 would just increase traffic on it....less people using public transport

Why would company vehicles not use it?

But you miss the point completely, which is probably not surprising.

If traffic flows quicker on the M50, and more commercial vehicles use it (especially the ones that would use it multiple times a day) the traffic on roads in the centre of the city would be less. That enables quicker and more frequent public transport.
Plus the cost of repairing many roads on a frequent basis is reduced. The M50 is designed to carry heavy vehicles, many of the roads in the city were never designed to carry heavy vehicles which is why they are constantly being repaired and resurfaced.
Again yet more money saved that could be used for Public transport.

the reason why most people still use their cars rather than public transport is the time taken is often less. With faster public transport more would switch.

Runaways

smurgen wrote: »

Leave him off.just bitter that the leader off the party he allegedly follows is a national laughing stock talking about growing salads during a crisis.

If you believe blanch actually supports the Green Party I have a motorway nearby I can sell you

Runaways

Funny I’ve never never heard anyone from fffg mention the insurance racket in Ireland. Fg studiously Avoid the topic. Though I can’t imagine why


https://twitter.com/maryloumcdonald/status/1241119508087046147?s=21

efanton

The insurance companies not paying out has been a issue now in the US, UK and other countries for a good few days now.

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-small-business-losses-insurance-claims-coverage-20200319.html

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/03/17/insurers-refuse-pay-virus-shutdown-claims/

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/mar/15/insurance-policies-for-uk-biggest-pub-group-do-not-cover-covid-19-coronavirus


Some insurance companies put additional clauses into their policies after the SARS outbreak similar to this
https://northstarmutual.com/UserFiles/File/forms/policyforms/Current/CP%2001%2040%2007%2006.pdf

I guess its down to people and businesses getting out their policies and reading the fine print.
If there's no clause there, then yes I would imagine there is a case there, especially when businesses pay extra premiums to ensure they are covered in the event they are unable to continue trading.

I guess this is the time where those that have the legal expertise to step in.
Plenty of them in the Dail, so time for them to step forward and look out for their constituents if they can

Shefwedfan

efanton wrote: »

But you miss the point completely, which is probably not surprising.

If traffic flows quicker on the M50, and more commercial vehicles use it (especially the ones that would use it multiple times a day) the traffic on roads in the centre of the city would be less. That enables quicker and more frequent public transport.
Plus the cost of repairing many roads on a frequent basis is reduced. The M50 is designed to carry heavy vehicles, many of the roads in the city were never designed to carry heavy vehicles which is why they are constantly being repaired and resurfaced.
Again yet more money saved that could be used for Public transport.

the reason why most people still use their cars rather than public transport is the time taken is often less. With faster public transport more would switch.

You don’t live in Dublin but your discussing a road in Dublin

Which you clearly have no idea about the traffic on it by the post I have quoted, still you seem to suggest other people are missing the point

I will mention one thing and leave you

Dublin City Centre has banned heavy commercials

all about the mane

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Things that happen because opposition put governments under pressure:



https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/state-bears-responsibility-for-renters-who-lose-jobs-due-to-coronavirus-3xr3cm0w3




https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0319/1124168-evictions-ban-coronavirus/

Results the fanboys and girls do not want to see.

Insurance companies being pressured the same way.

So its the opposition who call the shots...right...

No wonder SF never want to be in power when they secretly run the country anyway :rolleyes: