FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

J_1980

landofthetree wrote: »

FG have increased public spending by 13 billion since 2016.

Now we have to have austerity because of it.

Thank God for EU rules or it would have been a lot more.

Ireland’s top tax rate is already near the peak of the Laffer curve. Any tax increases might be counterproductive (like France under Hollande who cut tax receipts with tax increases).
The 3% rule will break this country’s neck this time.

landofthetree

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

We have to have austerity??

What rules?

What 13 billion?

Ah why why am I biting.

We have to have austerity if our public spending is more than we raise in taxes in any given year.

The EU fiscal rules.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Fiscal_Compact#Stability_and_Growth_Pact_regulation

In 2016 the government spent 75billlion. Now they spent 88 billion

Runaways

handlemaster wrote: »

Still waiting for the SF plan here .... waiting... waiting..... what time is it ... it will be over before they come out with their hindsight policy...

You’re obviously not reading the thread just haunting people’s posts.

Good luck with that.

Runaways

efanton wrote: »

Even if we the government were prepared to grab the cash with regards the Apple money it wouldn't work

Most of the 13 billion that Apple allegedly owes does not belong to Ireland.

That money would have to be distributed to multiple countries, because the 13 billion represents tax not paid where goods were purchased. Apple products were not only sold in Ireland.

Its also held in an escrow account not a government bank account, so it cant be released as simple as saying open sesame.

Despite what Chris Johns might say that money cant be touched without a court order, and even if it could Ireland would only be entitled to a very small fraction of it.

Yeah but they’re registered here as their (is it domicile?) and if they have it in accounts here which they probably do like a lot of tax tourist multinationals surely they should have to pay what’s owed? Facebook are and ‘only’ paid 28 million in tax. That’s a year or two back I don’t remember which but it’s pennies compared to what they should actually be paying.

Runaways

Gas part is I’d vote FG every day if Coveney was Taoiseach. Following the whole brexit thing closely and he’s genuinely a great statesman and politician. Heard him in the radio earlier and hes all over his brief takes no crap and doesn’t waffle.
Whereas Leo needs a script and as we all know can’t answer a single question without answering a different question he wasn’t asked AND making a huge blunder while he’s there.
He’s robotic to the point of death and utterly unrelatable. Meaning him. You can tell he hates people. Simply because he cannot and never will be able to empathize or relate to them.

He said ‘mum’s’ in his happy Mother’s Day tweet earlier ffs.
I can confidently say nobody in Ireland calls their mam ‘mum’.
Just move to England and join the Effin Tories already Leo.

Runaways

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I see the nonsense posting has been taken up by another since AATM departed.
The lefty bs is getting tried.

This new one is across several threads yay trump MAGA everyone who disagrees is a lefty liberal etc etc etc no matter what the topic.
Spot the bot miiiiles away in this case.

efanton

J_1980 wrote: »

50% soft cost is excessive. You still need planning, utility connections etc anyway. Only the profit not there, but thats 10% max.
Dermot article is paywall.

All these house building promises were pre-Corona anyway. All too optimistic. Tax receipts will drop 10bn, expenses go up 5bn. And that will be the recurring theme for the coming decade.

There will be a bailout but at a cost. Why should Irish retire at 65 when the Germans bail them out and retire at 68, maybe 70 soon??
Same with the dole. A German gets 470 a month, the Irish some lavish 850. And Germans bail you lot out again?? There will be a price, you can not sell this to the German/Dutch public again.

The Society of Chartered Surveyors Ireland would agree with me. I would assume they would be the experts

https://www.scsi.ie/resources/2016/pdf/SCSI_the_real_cost_of_new_house_delivery_2016

https://www.newstalk.com/news/heres-how-much-it-costs-to-build-a-house-597037

https://www.scsi.ie/documents/get_lob?id=886&field=file

Horsebox9000

How screwed would we be right now if SF had taken the change mantra all the way to actually winning enough seats for a majority.

Runaways

Horsebox9000 wrote: »

How screwed would we be right now if SF had taken the change mantra all the way to actually winning enough seats for a majority.

We’re screwed anyways. Open a newspaper.
Bit of a bad dose going around.

efanton

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

FG only said last week they want to be in opposition.

And yet we still have SF supporters here ranting that FG have some masterplan to now get into government because of the coronavirus?

Its all a conspiracy i tell ya.

One question.

What exactly do you SF lads want right now????

If thats what they want, truly want. then they would simply put an end to government formation talks with FF.
Its unlikely FF and FG could get the extra 7 seats they need anyhow, they only have the independents to rely now for those 7 seats.

This nonsense of a FF/FG /other coalition has gone on for far too long now. Do they want to form a government or not? It doesn't take 7 weeks to come to that decision. Yes a program for government needs detailed discussion and talks, but a decision has to be made before that.

As it stand we have a government that cant pass legislation, they simply do not have the Dail seats to do so.
Paschal Donahue temporary solution offering €203 a week to those who have lost their jobs and asking banks and landlords for forbearance for 3 months for those that find they are unable to pay their mortgage or rent is very likely not to be sufficient, especially if this crisis lasts more than three months which is more the likely.

What happens if there is no government formed in the next few weeks and further legislation or measures are required?
FF are already less than impressed with Paschal Donahue's measure stating very clearly they do not go far enough. SF have a similar view.

FG stating that they would not let a national government be formed if it included SF has really put the cat among the pigeons. What they are suggesting is that they will make decisions that the next government, which could well include SF, will have to carry the can for these decisions for despite them not being involved or agreeing to those measures. Those decisions could well lead to hundred of businesses going out of business before this crisis is over.

What is likely to happen is the Paschal Donhue measures fall flat on their face, they might work if this crisis lasts a month or two but beyond that its going to be a catastrophe.
They simply do not go far enough if we want a rapid recovery once this crisis is over, both FF and SF are in agreement with this. In the meantime people simply will not have the money to pay rent or mortgages, many small businesses are likely to go out of business and all those jobs will not be there once the crisis has abated. If there is to be any recovery after this crisis those jobs will be absolutely vital.


So what would I personally like being that I cant talk for everyone else?

I would like some certainty. Is there to be a new government or not? If there is to be a FF/FG/independents coalition then it should be formed as a priority.
If not then it should be made clear, and a new election should be called for at the earliest safe opportunity where TD's can canvass and polling station be opened.

Both FF and SF agree the existing measures do not go far enough, so it is very hard to see how the current political situation can continue without a new government being formed, a nation government including all parties being formed, or it being agreed that new elections will take place as soon as it is safe for candidates to canvass and polling stations to be opened.

Shefwedfan

Runaways wrote: »

He said ‘mum’s’ in his happy Mother’s Day tweet earlier ffs.
I can confidently say nobody in Ireland calls their mam ‘mum’.
Just move to England and join the Effin Tories already Leo.

Loads of people say mum

Shefwedfan

I know some SF fans are pushing for a re-election for the simple plan that SF run more candidates and get more seats

Question is where do SF get more politicians? The current crop are hardly the cream of the political landscape, the charity thief would probably get kicked to touch and a lot of people will have seen the revolt vote didn’t really work as all Mary Lou done was made sure no party would work with her going forward

Wanderer78

Shefwedfan wrote:

I know some SF fans are pushing for a re-election for the simple plan that SF run more candidates and get more seats

There won't be another election, it ll be interesting to see how both ffg get on it power, as a oppose to what we just had, I. E. Ffg in power

smurgen

Runaways wrote: »

Gas part is I’d vote FG every day if Coveney was Taoiseach. Following the whole brexit thing closely and he’s genuinely a great statesman and politician. Heard him in the radio earlier and hes all over his brief takes no crap and doesn’t waffle.
Whereas Leo needs a script and as we all know can’t answer a single question without answering a different question he wasn’t asked AND making a huge blunder while he’s there.
He’s robotic to the point of death and utterly unrelatable. Meaning him. You can tell he hates people. Simply because he cannot and never will be able to empathize or relate to them.

He said ‘mum’s’ in his happy Mother’s Day tweet earlier ffs.
I can confidently say nobody in Ireland calls their mam ‘mum’.
Just move to England and join the Effin Tories already Leo.

Dunno where everyone is getting this Coveney is an oracle or has leadership qualities.he was on virgin media the other morning and sounded like he didn't have a clue what's going on. A few light questions from the interviewer and he had no specifics in what they were going to do for households effected.no specifics on what the banks would do either. Seems to be very polished until anyone prods.like most of FG there's a script written for them and it falls apart as soon as a presenter deviates from it.

Shefwedfan

smurgen wrote: »

Dunno where everyone is getting this Coveney is an oracle or has leadership qualities.he was on virgin media the other morning and sounded like he didn't have a clue what's going on. A few light questions from the interviewer and he had no specifics in what they were going to do for households effected.no specifics on what the banks would do either. Seems to be very polished until anyone prods.like most of FG there's a script written for them and it falls apart as soon as a presenter deviates from it.

Well I don't know why people think SF would be any good in power. The only sort of responisbility they have is in the North and that ended up without a government for 3 years......

FrancieBrady

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I know some SF fans are pushing for a re-election for the simple plan that SF run more candidates and get more seats

Question is where do SF get more politicians? The current crop are hardly the cream of the political landscape, the charity thief would probably get kicked to touch and a lot of people will have seen the revolt vote didn’t really work as all Mary Lou done was made sure no party would work with her going forward

Would FF lie through their teeth to the electorate again in a new election?

Would FG run on a platform of happily going into opposition?

Shefwedfan

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Would FF lie through their teeth to the electorate again in a new election?

Would FG run on a platform of happily going into opposition?

Not sure what your point is, I was asking about SF supporters

FrancieBrady

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Not sure what your point is, I was asking about SF supporters

The point is all of them have questions to answer if we go back to a new election.

Shefwedfan

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The point is all of them have questions to answer if we go back to a new election.

Do they?



What did FF lie about?


FG said they would go into opposition because of the election, if it was a new vote why would they say they would go into opposition before the vote even happens?

FrancieBrady

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Do they?



What did FF lie about?

They said they would not go into coalition with FG.

FG said they would go into opposition because of the election, if it was a new vote why would they say they would go into opposition before the vote even happens?

FG had a pathway to government with FF or SF but decided straight away to go into opposition.

They will need to tell the electorate that it is ...a majority vote for FG or they are not interested in government. That is if they are being honest.

Edgware

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Loads of people say mum

Plenty yummy Mummy about

smurgen

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Not sure what your point is, I was asking about SF supporters

You're in a FG thread. Maybe try asking in one of the many SF threads.

smurgen

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Not sure what your point is, I was asking about SF supporters

You're in a FG thread. Maybe try asking in one of the many SF threads.

Shefwedfan

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They said they would not go into coalition with FG.




FG had a pathway to government with FF or SF but decided straight away to go into opposition.

They will need to tell the electorate that it is ...a majority vote for FG or they are not interested in government. That is if they are being honest.

hahahaha.......That's the best you could come up !!!


If it is another election then FF won't have gone into government with FG....so they didnt lie. :eek::eek:



Nobody wanted to go into government with SF, so that will tell the voter they either vote SF in for a majority or dont bother at all because it is a wasted vote.



Plus SF will have focus on them this time, lets see them answer a few questions on the mighty manifesto.....

Shefwedfan

smurgen wrote: »

You're in a FG thread. Maybe try asking in one of the many SF threads.

So good you said it twice


FG thread??? anyone that posts in it gets accusation thrown at them by SF supporters. No such thing as a non SF thread anymore.....

Shefwedfan

Edgware wrote: »

Plenty yummy Mummy about

SOme people say Yummy Mammmmmmmmyyyyyyyyy :P:P

Horsebox9000

efanton wrote: »

If thats what they want, truly want. then they would simply put an end to government formation talks with FF.
Its unlikely FF and FG could get the extra 7 seats they need anyhow, they only have the independents to rely now for those 7 seats.

This nonsense of a FF/FG /other coalition has gone on for far too long now. Do they want to form a government or not? It doesn't take 7 weeks to come to that decision. Yes a program for government needs detailed discussion and talks, but a decision has to be made before that.

As it stand we have a government that cant pass legislation, they simply do not have the Dail seats to do so.
Paschal Donahue temporary solution offering €203 a week to those who have lost their jobs and asking banks and landlords for forbearance for 3 months for those that find they are unable to pay their mortgage or rent is very likely not to be sufficient, especially if this crisis lasts more than three months which is more the likely.

What happens if there is no government formed in the next few weeks and further legislation or measures are required?
FF are already less than impressed with Paschal Donahue's measure stating very clearly they do not go far enough. SF have a similar view.

FG stating that they would not let a national government be formed if it included SF has really put the cat among the pigeons. What they are suggesting is that they will make decisions that the next government, which could well include SF, will have to carry the can for these decisions for despite them not being involved or agreeing to those measures. Those decisions could well lead to hundred of businesses going out of business before this crisis is over.

What is likely to happen is the Paschal Donhue measures fall flat on their face, they might work if this crisis lasts a month or two but beyond that its going to be a catastrophe.
They simply do not go far enough if we want a rapid recovery once this crisis is over, both FF and SF are in agreement with this. In the meantime people simply will not have the money to pay rent or mortgages, many small businesses are likely to go out of business and all those jobs will not be there once the crisis has abated. If there is to be any recovery after this crisis those jobs will be absolutely vital.


So what would I personally like being that I cant talk for everyone else?

I would like some certainty. Is there to be a new government or not? If there is to be a FF/FG/independents coalition then it should be formed as a priority.
If not then it should be made clear, and a new election should be called for at the earliest safe opportunity where TD's can canvass and polling station be opened.

Both FF and SF agree the existing measures do not go far enough, so it is very hard to see how the current political situation can continue without a new government being formed, a nation government including all parties being formed, or it being agreed that new elections will take place as soon as it is safe for candidates to canvass and polling stations to be opened.

So what would SF do to bounce everyone into recovery then? Pay full wages and build 100k social houses and give away for free?

Horsebox9000

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Would FF lie through their teeth to the electorate again in a new election?

Would FG run on a platform of happily going into opposition?

What about not using deflection tactics ?

smurgen

Horsebox9000 wrote: »

What about not using deflection tactics ?

You're in a FG thread why mention SF?

Loafing Oaf

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I don't think it's dillydallying at this stage. It seems they are both committed to forming a government but they have consciously chosen to leave the FG government in place at least until we get a measure of how bad the crisis is going to get.

Pretty clear this is what is now happening
https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/our-political-parties-need-to-park-their-differences-until-this-emergency-is-over-39066391.html

There is a growing view that keeping the current Government in office for a fixed anti-coronavirus period may be the best option for the nation