FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

mattser

Looks like the UK lockdown is having diddly squat effect. Crammed as ever.

Wanderer78

mattser wrote: »

Looks like the UK lockdown is having diddly squat effect. Crammed as ever.

seen that alright, i guess, if you cant work, you starve

FrancieBrady

Ballso wrote: »

Everyones stupid except Sinn Fein, who by simply opposing whatever stance that gob****e Varadkar takes, are automatically correct on everything in the eyes of their supporters.

I see O'Brion is lying about the apple money again this morning, more populist guff aimed at the poorly informed SF base. People will remember this unhelpful disruption and sniping from the sidelines from the likes of populist SF and Paddy Cosgrave after this is over.

What lies did O'Broin tell? Link?

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What lies did O'Broin tell? Link?

Gist of it is we spend it now and worry about the consequences later. Pretty much standard SF approach to economics.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/apple-s-15bn-back-tax-could-fund-ireland-s-cash-crunch-1.4209152

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Gist of it is we spend it now and worry about the consequences later. Pretty much standard SF approach to economics.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/apple-s-15bn-back-tax-could-fund-ireland-s-cash-crunch-1.4209152

That's an article by somebody called Chris Johns and doesn't even mention SF.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That's an article by somebody called Chris Johns and doesn't even mention SF.

It's the article that Eoin OB shared this morning on twitter that the other poster is on about.

To be fair i assumed also that he wrote it.

Given MLD was talking about it yesterday it must be the approach SF want the government to take.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

It's the article that Eoin OB shared this morning on twitter that the other poster is on about.

To be fair i assumed also that he wrote it.

Given MLD was talking about it yesterday it must be the approach SF want the government to take.

If it is legally possible it is worth considering. As the writer says, further exploration of what Apple's opinion of it would be, is worth exploring.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If it is legally possible it is worth considering. As the writer says, further exploration of what Apple's opinion of it would be, is worth exploring.

But if we lose the case we'll have to pay back with interest. It could cost more than just borrowing it.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

But if we lose the case we'll have to pay back with interest. It could cost more than just borrowing it.

Says who? Link?

Remember it is earning interest that belongs to us as it sits in escrow.

We should at least be exploring this. Transparently.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Says who? Link?

Remember it is earning interest that belongs to us as it sits in escrow.

We should at least be exploring this. Transparently.

The interest belongs to whoever is awarded the money.

If Apple lose the case the money has to be split between the EU states where the alleged tax avoidance occurred.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Says who? Link?

Remember it is earning interest that belongs to us as it sits in escrow.

We should at least be exploring this. Transparently.

SF are spreading a falsehood that the whole amount is potentially ours.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

SF are spreading a falsehood that the whole amount is potentially ours.

Link?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

The interest belongs to whoever is awarded the money.

If Apple lose the case the money has to be split between the EU states where the alleged tax avoidance occurred.

I was reading somewhere that that isn't necessarily the case. The money is technically 'ours' or the other member states atm.
If Apple win, all they will get back is their money not the interest.

I have no idea if this is correct or not. But some transparency on the whole debacle would be good.

It is obscene in essence what Apple were doing to begin with in my opinion and if nothing else, at this time, moral pressure should be brought to bear on them.

Shefwedfan

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I was reading somewhere that that isn't necessarily the case. The money is technically 'ours' or the other member states atm.
If Apple win, all they will get back is their money not the interest.

I have no idea if this is correct or not. But some transparency on the whole debacle would be good.

It is obscene in essence what Apple were doing to begin with in my opinion and if nothing else, at this time, moral pressure should be brought to bear on them.

Why it is obscene?



The corporate tax is at a level to attrach companies to these shores. It has worked massively in Irelands favour. Without it we would probably be sending the majority of young people to overseas. Yes I know people left during recession but most are back.

All that is wrong here is that Europe want more of a chuck of the pie. They don't give a f**king **** about Ireland and if we did or didn't get any tax from Apple. All they want to do is push Ireland tax rate up, then once that happens all of them will land at our door step looking to move those big multinationals out of ireland

Believe me if they move this place will go down hill very fast.

Not sure why anyone would want that? maybe you could explain

FrancieBrady

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Why it is obscene?

Oh come on. Read about it. It was a scam of the highest order. 'Diesel laundering is in the halfpenny place in comparison tbh.

The corporate tax is at a level to attrach companies to these shores. It has worked massively in Irelands favour. Without it we would probably be sending the majority of young people to overseas. Yes I know people left during recession but most are back.

All that is wrong here is that Europe want more of a chuck of the pie. They don't give a f**king **** about Ireland and if we did or didn't get any tax from Apple. All they want to do is push Ireland tax rate up, then once that happens all of them will land at our door step looking to move those big multinationals out of ireland

Believe me if they move this place will go down hill very fast.

Not sure why anyone would want that? maybe you could explain

There has got to be a halfway house where the field is level and fair to all.
With this crisis facing the world maybe now is the time.

We have to change the way we live in so many ways and corporations are going to have to step up too...even lead the way.

blanch152

Runaways wrote: »

I got a threat of a search warrant letter for not having a tv license. I genuinely don’t have a tv but it was scary. Emailed all my local tds and Mary lous office actually rang me took all the details and came back to me after saying it was sorted and not to worry about it. No other tds offices even replied to the email.

My pal and her fella and daughter were in emergency accommodation and o broin got them a deposit for a place and on some advanced housing lust (a cbe I think it’s called)

People on joe Duffy last week saying they have sf members bringing them to hospital for their regular appointments.

That’s just top of my head but you’ll much more of it in places like Tallaght and Cabra

None of that has anything to do with governing the country or even legislating.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I was reading somewhere that that isn't necessarily the case. The money is technically 'ours' or the other member states atm.
If Apple win, all they will get back is their money not the interest.

I have no idea if this is correct or not. But some transparency on the whole debacle would be good.

It is obscene in essence what Apple were doing to begin with in my opinion and if nothing else, at this time, moral pressure should be brought to bear on them.

Outside of our control and just populism from SF. MLD has said she doesn't want to get into a "squabble" with Leo. Obviously cause what she is saying is complete BS.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Oh come on. Read about it. It was a scam of the highest order. 'Diesel laundering is in the halfpenny place in comparison tbh.




There has got to be a halfway house where the field is level and fair to all.
With this crisis facing the world maybe now is the time.

We have to change the way we live in so many ways and corporations are going to have to step up too...even lead the way.

Diesel laundering is illegal, carried out by good republicans, decreases the tax take over decades, and takes money from tax-paying businesses = Good

12% rate of taxation, creates hundreds of thousands of jobs, increases the tax take over decades and helps bring in money to other tax-paying businesses = Bad

You couldn't sum up Shinernomics any better.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Oh come on. Read about it. It was a scam of the highest order. 'Diesel laundering is in the halfpenny place in comparison tbh.




There has got to be a halfway house where the field is level and fair to all.
With this crisis facing the world maybe now is the time.

We have to change the way we live in so many ways and corporations are going to have to step up too...even lead the way.

Like it or not we have to be competitive in the global market. SF approach of taxing big corporations now will only ruin the country. We don't exist in a vacuum. The big corporations will just leave.

Shefwedfan

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Oh come on. Read about it. It was a scam of the highest order. 'Diesel laundering is in the halfpenny place in comparison tbh.




There has got to be a halfway house where the field is level and fair to all.
With this crisis facing the world maybe now is the time.

We have to change the way we live in so many ways and corporations are going to have to step up too...even lead the way.

Are you actually serious?

Tea Shock

jh79 wrote: »

Like it or not we have to be competitive in the global market. SF approach of taxing big corporations now will only ruin the country. We don't exist in a vacuum. The big corporations will just leave.

Let me say, I am no SF voter

But SF's approach isn't to increase the 12.5% corporation tax-rate - it is to make corporations actually pay the 12.5%. Many don't - not even on their Irish earnings!

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Like it or not we have to be competitive in the global market. SF approach of taxing big corporations now will only ruin the country. We don't exist in a vacuum. The big corporations will just leave.

Oh please with the 'big corporations will just leave'.

There is nothing wrong with trying to find a fairer way to do things.

We don't have to be cowed by big business to that extent. They are gaining from being here too.

A halfway house is all that is being looked for.

*P.S. I am not that interested in debating with those who think things are morally acceptable just because it suits/benefits the 'right' people. What Apple were doing was wrong and immoral even if it was legal. And if the courts find in Ireland/The EU's favour then it was illegal.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Oh please with the 'big corporations will just leave'.

There is nothing wrong with trying to find a fairer way to do things.

We don't have to be cowed by big business to that extent. They are gaining from being here too.

A halfway house is all that is being looked for.

*P.S. I am not that interested in debating with those who think things are morally acceptable just because it suits/benefits the 'right' people. What Apple were doing was wrong and immoral even if it was legal. And if the courts find in Ireland/The EU's favour then it was illegal.

I never mentioned morality.

And yes they are gaining by being here but the finance people will always be looking at conditions in other countries and whether they are advantageous to the company.

What exactly are SF proposing? How much revenue will it generate and how would it affect our competitiveness?

jh79

Tea Shock wrote: »

Let me say, I am no SF voter

But SF's approach isn't to increase the 12.5% corporation tax-rate - it is to make corporations actually pay the 12.5%. Many don't - not even on their Irish earnings!

And if SF get into power and follow through with this how much revenue would it generate and how much it affect our competitiveness?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

I never mentioned morality.

And yes they are gaining by being here but the finance people will always be looking at conditions in other countries and whether they are advantageous to the company.

What exactly are SF proposing? How much revenue will it generate and how would it affect our competitiveness?

According to you and others our 'competitiveness' is predicated on how far we are prepared to bend over or turn a blind eye.

So why not just let them do what they want...we can only 'benefit' more...right?

Wanderer78

jh79 wrote: »

And if SF get into power and follow through with this how much revenue would it generate and how much it affect our competitiveness?

its clearly obvious, theres something highly dysfunctional going on in regards corporate tax globally, its very likely that this rate will increase over time. if we continue as we are, it will probably have highly destructive consequences on our economies. as others have said, it would be a great start if we could just get the full 12.5%, my own personal preference being accepting partial payments as stock and shares from these companies, and placing them into a sovereign wealth fund

Tea Shock

jh79 wrote: »

And if SF get into power and follow through with this how much revenue would it generate and how much it affect our competitiveness?

I believe they claim it would generate €3.5 billion per year

Our competitiveness will be heavily influenced by the UK's future relationship with the EU - currently unknown

But tax-rates, albeit a big factor, is not the only factor in whether a US corporation would decide to leave/remain in Ireland.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

According to you and others our 'competitiveness' is predicated on how far we are prepared to bend over or turn a blind eye.

So why not just let them do what they want...we can only 'benefit' more...right?

So you think the SF approach of increasing taxes and having little foreign direct investment would be better for the country?

jh79

Wanderer78 wrote: »

its clearly obvious, theres something highly dysfunctional going on in regards corporate tax globally, its very likely that this rate will increase over time. if we continue as we are, it will probably have highly destructive consequences on our economies. as others have said, it would be a great start if we could just get the full 12.5%, my own personal preference being accepting partial payments as stock and shares from these companies, and placing them into a sovereign wealth fund

But SF seems to think we exist in a vacuum (or are just being populist) and we don't have to consider the tax policies of the rest of the world.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

So you think the SF approach of increasing taxes and having little foreign direct investment would be better for the country?

Where have they said they want 'little foreign direct investment'?

Is that not you scaremongering?