FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

Wanderer78

jh79 wrote: »

But SF seems to think we exist in a vacuum (or are just being populist) and we don't have to consider the tax policies of the rest of the world.

ive no idea why you re hung up on sf, they wont be in government anytime soon, in fact, i suspect they may never be, ffg will do all they cant to prevent that. i do personally think global corporate tax rates will slowly increase over time, we ll simply have no choice

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Where have they said they want 'little foreign direct investment'?

Is that not you scaremongering?

I think its a realistic outcome of SF policies on tax.

If country X offers better tax breaks that's where they'll go.

Wanderer78

jh79 wrote: »

I think its a realistic outcome of SF policies on tax.

If country X offers better tax breaks that's where they'll go.

tax rates are only one aspect of why corporations operate here, yes to date it has been in many cases a major factor, but....

jh79

Wanderer78 wrote: »

ive no idea why you re hung up on sf, they wont be in government anytime soon, in fact, i suspect they may never be, ffg will do all they cant to prevent that. i do personally think global corporate tax rates will slowly increase over time, we ll simply have no choice

Prior to COVID-19 they had a good chance of getting in and ruining the country but now i think they'll lose a lot of the votes they gained and they can forget about a border poll for at least a decade.

Wanderer78

jh79 wrote: »

Prior to COVID-19 they had a good chance of getting in and ruining the country but now i think they'll lose a lot of the votes they gained and they can forget about a border poll for at least a decade.

i disagree, they never really had much of a chance to getting into government, ffg still have a very strong position in irish politics, and theres a very good chance they always will have, this is more to do about power play than anything. we have no idea if a sf lead government would ruin the country, id imagine they d do just as much damage as any other alternative lead government

efanton

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I was reading somewhere that that isn't necessarily the case. The money is technically 'ours' or the other member states atm.
If Apple win, all they will get back is their money not the interest.

I have no idea if this is correct or not. But some transparency on the whole debacle would be good.

It is obscene in essence what Apple were doing to begin with in my opinion and if nothing else, at this time, moral pressure should be brought to bear on them.

Francie as a SF supporter myself, I am saying to you that it is a fact that Ireland is not entitled to that 13 billion that Apple potentially owes.

That money is held in an escrow account, meaning it cant be touched without a court order. Until a court decides who that money belongs to it cant be touched. That was the whole point of putting it in an escrow account in the first place.

If the courts decide that Apple do indeed owe that money, Ireland will only get a tiny fraction of it. That 13 billion represents tax not paid to governments on Apple products where those products were sold. The vast majority of that money will be distributed to other countries in the EU


So please if you are a SF supporter don't mention that Apple money again. It might as well not exist and all you are doing is feeding the FG trolls.

Even if the court decides it should be repaid Ireland will not be getting billions of euros. We will get some of it, a very very small fraction of it, but it is unlikely to even come close to a tiniest fraction of a billion considering that the vast majority of Apple products in the EU were never sold in Ireland. Even then it will take months and longer to be dispersed to those countries owed.

What money 'might' be owed to Ireland out of the Apple money, would not come close to what would be needed if the government decided to put in measures to designed to protect businesses.


Having said that I do believe the government needs to support small businesses to the extent that they remain solvent enough to survive this crisis until they can start trading again. Whether that is done by a moratorium on taxes and rates, direct injection of money or some other means is immaterial in the big scheme of things, just as long as they do actually survive.


FG supporters who laugh at an aid package to keep businesses alive because that clown in the UK has done it miss the point. If we do not have those businesses and the jobs they provide once this crisis is over then any recovery is likely to be a slow one. No one knows how long businesses will have to remain closed. Just because we do not know does not mean the government should not put measures in. Ireland cannot afford to lose those jobs and put itself at a competitive disadvantage.


It appears there will be a major announcement later today, lets hope something of substance is announced.

FrancieBrady

efanton wrote: »

Francie as a SF supporter myself, I am saying to you that it is a fact that Ireland is not entitled to that 13 billion that Apple potentially owes.

That money is held in an escrow account, meaning it cant be touched without a court order. Until a court decides who that money belongs to it cant be touched. That was the whole point of putting it in an escrow account in the first place.

If the courts decide that Apple do indeed owe that money, Ireland will only get a tiny fraction of it. That 13 billion represents tax not paid to governments on Apple products where those products were sold. The vast majority of that money will be distributed to other countries in the EU


So please if you are a SF supporter don't mention that Apple money again. It might as well not exist and all you are doing is feeding the FG trolls.

Even if the court decides it should be repaid Ireland will not be getting billions of euros. We will get some of it, a very very small fraction of it, but it is unlikely to even come close to a tiniest fraction of a billion considering that the vast majority of Apple products in the EU were never sold in Ireland. Even then it will take months and longer to be dispersed to those countries owed.

What money 'might' be owed to Ireland out of the Apple money, would not come close to what would be needed if the government decided to put in measures to designed to protect businesses.


Having said that I do believe the government needs to support small businesses to the extent that they remain solvent enough to survive this crisis until they can start trading again. Whether that is done by a moratorium on taxes and rates, direct injection of money or some other means is immaterial in the big scheme of things, just as long as they do actually survive.


FG supporters who laugh at an aid package to keep businesses alive because that clown in the UK has done it miss the point. If we do not have those businesses and the jobs they provide once this crisis is over then any recovery is likely to be a slow one. No one knows how long businesses will have to remain closed. Just because we do not know does not mean the government should not put measures in. Ireland cannot afford to lose those jobs and put itself at a competitive disadvantage.


It appears there will be a major announcement later today, lets hope something of substance is announced.

Just one issue with that, it is Ireland who say that other countries 'may' be owed money from it.

As with all things FG FF, there is very little clear and definite about it. I'd be interested to see a definitive statement on this.

Facing political pressure to take the money, the Irish government has consistently said it may face claims from other countries for a portion of the money.

The commission “has said publicly that the recovery amount may be reduced if other countries were to require Apple to pay more taxes,” the Irish finance ministry said in response to questions on Wednesday.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-29/slice-of-apple-s-irish-tax-billions-goes-to-other-countries

Shefwedfan

Wanderer78 wrote: »

tax rates are only one aspect of why corporations operate here, yes to date it has been in many cases a major factor, but....

I work for one and I deal with american companies every day of the week. The simple reason they are here is for the tax breaks that is it.


If we put our up they will be gone in the morning, a huge company has just shut down its US operations and opened in Dublin. Not a company most people would know. They have operations all over the World but HQ will be out of Dublin with hundred of jobs.



It would be idiotic if we increase our corporate tax, we might as well just put a huge percentage of the country on social welfare now

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Just one issue with that, it is Ireland who say that other countries 'may' be owed money from it.

As with all things FG FF, there is very little clear and definite about it. I'd be interested to see a definitive statement on this.



https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-29/slice-of-apple-s-irish-tax-billions-goes-to-other-countries

I think the issue was that apple where using us to pay tax on products sold across the EU rather than paying in each country. If that is deemed illegal then it would have to be paid on units sold in each country.

Whatever the exact details SF known we can't use it and are just pandering to the why can't the rich pay for everything brigade.

Tea Shock

The way I have always thought about it, if Germany for example were entitled to taxes from Ireland for profits from iPhones sold in Germany, then Ireland are entitled to taxes from Germany for profits from Volkswagen's, Opel 's, Merc's, BMW's etc sold in Ireland

It's bullsh1t!

Tea Shock

Shefwedfan wrote: »

A huge company has just shut down its US operations and opened in Dublin. Not a company most people would know. They have operations all over the World but HQ will be out of Dublin with hundred of jobs.

Who is it?

They have operations all over the World - but no longer in the US?

blanch152

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I work for one and I deal with american companies every day of the week. The simple reason they are here is for the tax breaks that is it.


If we put our up they will be gone in the morning, a huge company has just shut down its US operations and opened in Dublin. Not a company most people would know. They have operations all over the World but HQ will be out of Dublin with hundred of jobs.



It would be idiotic if we increase our corporate tax, we might as well just put a huge percentage of the country on social welfare now

People love us just because we are Irish - remember that is the mentality. We don't need to have low corporation taxes. A small island economy with poor infrastructure on the periphery of Europe can attract multinationals just because we are loved (and you can't mention speaking English, as that is a colonial hang-up).

The Sinn Fein policy on corporation taxes reminds me of De Valera's economic policies of the 1930s and run the same risks.

FrancieBrady

This is an unprecedented crisis and (in our lifetimes) an unprecedented shock to the world's financial system.

To survive it, everything, has to be on the table for discussion and as a way out.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This is an unprecedented crisis and (in our lifetimes) an unprecedented shock to the world's financial system.

To survive it, everything, has to be on the table for discussion and as a way out.

I agree but that doesn't mean we shouldn't call out SF's populist nonsense on this issue

Runaways

blanch152 wrote: »

Diesel laundering is illegal, carried out by good republicans, decreases the tax take over decades, and takes money from tax-paying businesses = Good

12% rate of taxation, creates hundreds of thousands of jobs, increases the tax take over decades and helps bring in money to other tax-paying businesses = Bad

You couldn't sum up Shinernomics any better.

We’re being shafted by vulture funds banks and endless FFFG governments allowing it


And all you have is green diesel.
You are comical.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

I agree but that doesn't mean we shouldn't call out SF's populist nonsense on this issue

Chris Johns isn't a 'shinner'.

If there is a way to get at that money legally for our benefit, at this time, we should have no qualms about it.

FrancieBrady

Runaways wrote: »

We’re being shafted by vulture funds banks and endless FFFG governments allowing it


And all you have is green diesel.
You are comical.

If the 'right' people are benefiting morals go out the window.

Topgear on Dave

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If the 'right' people are benefiting morals go out the window.

Very true Francie. Very true.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/now-mary-lou-backs-good-republican-slab-34306975.html

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Chris Johns isn't a 'shinner'.

If there is a way to get at that money legally for our benefit, at this time, we should have no qualms about it.

MLD had a chance to explain the logistics of taking this money after Leo said she was talking a load of rubbish but refused as she didn't want to get into a squabble!

Runaways

Have to laugh at Leo literally and figuratively stealing Sinn Feins idea and trying to make out like it’s his own.

Christ he’s running scared now.

James Brown

Runaways wrote: »

We’re being shafted by vulture funds banks and endless FFFG governments allowing it


And all you have is green diesel.
You are comical.

They encourage and support it.
This crisis will be used by FF/FG to feather many nests and when the tax payer gets the bill it'll be all Winston Churchill speeches about being in it together.
I think any upturn for FG will have long faded by the time any new election is called as they'll have been found out again by then.
It's just such a shame these people are so despicable despite any crises previously, any they let fester and now this one.

Runaways

jh79 wrote: »

I agree but that doesn't mean we shouldn't call out SF's populist nonsense on this issue

I will just point you to Leo just minutes ago announcing Fgs new idea in relation to workers pay


Aaaaand it’s exactly what sf proposed two weeks ago


Who’s the populist again?

Bobeagleburger

Next government is on a hiding to nothing. Austerity budgets for the next few years.

jh79

Runaways wrote: »

I will just point you to Leo just minutes ago announcing Fgs new idea in relation to workers pay


Aaaaand it’s exactly what sf proposed two weeks ago


Who’s the populist again?

Thought Boris came up with it first.

Had to laugh at L O Reilly stuttering on the radio this morning when the presenter said SF were aligning with British policies on COVID-19.

Runaways

jh79 wrote: »

Thought Boris came up with it first.

Had to laugh at L O Reilly stuttering on the radio this morning when the presenter said SF were aligning with British policies on COVID-19.

Way to try move the focus.

Did you even see or hear Leo’s announcement ?
Knowing well he won’t be next Taoiseach can only imagine it’s a spiteful and petty move but playing with more than just Mary Lou and Michael.
He’s using the country to do it.

Which is well within his wheelhouse.

Petty arrogant litle fvck


And if you thought Boris came up with that first Jesus Christ you really haven’t been paying attention. Stop reading tabloids. Good man.

Shefwedfan

Runaways wrote: »

Have to laugh at Leo literally and figuratively stealing Sinn Feins idea and trying to make out like it’s his own.

Christ he’s running scared now.

Stealing idea's :p:p:p:p:p


Maybe they should have patent those idea's, could of made a fortune

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Thought Boris came up with it first.

Had to laugh at L O Reilly stuttering on the radio this morning when the presenter said SF were aligning with British policies on COVID-19.

Stuttering at the juvenile taunt maybe?

jh79

Runaways wrote: »

Way to try move the focus.

Did you even see or hear Leo’s announcement ?
Knowing well he won’t be next Taoiseach can only imagine it’s a spiteful and petty move but playing with more than just Mary Lou and Michael.
He’s using the country to do it.

Which is well within his wheelhouse.

Petty arrogant litle fvck


And if you thought Boris came up with that first Jesus Christ you really haven’t been paying attention. Stop reading tabloids. Good man.

Sitting in front of the tv watching it.

What petty move are you talking about?

Tea Shock

Runaways wrote: »

Way to try move the focus.

Did you even see or hear Leo’s announcement ?
Knowing well he won’t be next Taoiseach can only imagine it’s a spiteful and petty move but playing with more than just Mary Lou and Michael.
He’s using the country to do it.

Which is well within his wheelhouse.

Petty arrogant litle fvck


And if you thought Boris came up with that first Jesus Christ you really haven’t been paying attention. Stop reading tabloids. Good man.

Are you suggesting Mary Lou will be in the next government but Leo won't be?

Shefwedfan

jh79 wrote: »

Sitting in front of the tv watching it.

What petty move are you talking about?

If you don't have a tin foil hat on you wont spot it!!! RTE is blurring your mind