Ireland in 3 years under a left wing government.

piplip87

Dole been upped to 250 a week, no evictions for not paying your mortgage and those who cannot be bothered to work gets a nice 65k SF house.

Hospital consultants, doctor's, surgeons leaving the country due to higher taxes will fix the pension crisis sure it will certainly cut the Aul life expectancy.

High inflation due to increased employer PRSI, the living wage and upping taxes on employers will make us appreciate the little things more.

Landlords selling up due to rent freezes, higher taxes and developers leaving the country en masse due to SF policy of building without them well on the other hand sales of tents will be up....

But don't you know this won't be Marylou's fault. It will all be down to FFG and the biased media....

Don't worry though Dessie Elis will be minister of defence and will be personally responsible for recruitment to keep the population in check.

Pauline Mc Caluey (well she's going by Tully again) will be minister for Justice and will threaten the guards with the same faith her husband gave Gerry McCabe if they investigate any diesel laundering or ATM heists.

Then not to worry Marylou will still be giving speeches to "friends of SF" in New York. As you can imagine this group is anything but socialist.

Don't worry though we will have left the EU at that stage so there will be no ECB to bail us out....

Morgans

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

I see your point and you are correct that was wrong on all accounts.

But that has got nothing to do with socialism.......It is actually a great idea and in a perfect world it may even work.

Trouble is the world is far from perfect and even someone as big as the USSR with all the power they had couldnt get it right. So it just collapsed.

The economics of socialism just do not stand up. You simply cannot spend what you cant earn or ever payback. There is always someone wanting to kick your door in and put the gun to your head because you have spent their money.

SF dont want to create USSR style socialism. Its a cliche to bashing anyone not falling in line. How are the Scandanavian countries faring in this imperfect world? They seem to cope and most leftists would be happy to see such models in health/education attitude to inequality, in place here.

There is plenty of socialism for the richer in society.

Fr_Dougal

dwmcdos

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Funnily enough, FG and Labour were in power for that one.

StupidLikeAFox

Slab Murphy to be appointed as minister for cross border trade maybe?

piplip87

Morgans wrote: »

SF dont want to create USSR style socialism. Its a cliche to bashing anyone not falling in line. How are the Scandanavian countries faring in this imperfect world? They seem to cope and most leftists would be happy to see such models in health/education attitude to inequality, in place here.

There is plenty of socialism for the richer in society.

Scandinavia is not socialist. Their economies are propped up by the petrochemical industries which are capitalist. They are anything but socialist

Boredstiff666

Morgans wrote: »

SF dont want to create USSR style socialism. Its a cliche to bashing anyone not falling in line. How are the Scandanavian countries faring in this imperfect world? They seem to cope and most leftists would be happy to see such models in health/education attitude to inequality, in place here.

There is plenty of socialism for the richer in society.

Yeah well I have personal experience of it. You have but just a pipe dream and no examples or proof of where or when your idealism has ever worked. I can give you plenty of examples where it has failed and why when you adopt those socialist lefty policies, people who remember it the first time around will never vote for you again. Ask Jeremy Corbin.

Plumbthedepths

DubInMeath wrote: »

One thing about the election is the effect its had resurrecting dead accounts and a slew of new ones for the site. The owners must be delighted.

What a great post and I suspect very true.

Kivaro

tayto lover wrote: »

I haven’t seen the Sinn Fein manifesto.
Could anyone point me in the direction of it please.

I started a thread specifically on the Manifesto topic a couple of days ago, but that discussion was shut down by a mod.

Morgans

piplip87 wrote: »

Scandinavia is not socialist. Their economies are propped up by the petrochemical industries which are capitalist. They are anything but socialist

Exactly. No one except those eager to promote bogeymen from 50 years ago are saying Sinn Fein are looking for a stereotypical socialist economy.

However, leftists in Ireland would love to have the social protections of Scandanavian systems.

Plumbthedepths

Kivaro wrote: »

I started a thread specifically on the Manifesto topic a couple of days ago, but that discussion was shut down by a mod.

Do you seriously believe any parties manifesto is meant to be taken seriously, even FG's Regina Doherty stated no one reads manifestos.

splinter65

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Hopefully. Thanks.
We all want the next government to do well surely?

Of course! They’re getting a really good start too with employment at 100% and the house building looking good for this year at last....it’s just a question then of them sorting out the health service for a start, they’ve had a long time to formulate a plan for that, I’m sure it’s only a question of putting it into practice.
Ideally SF won’t need FF and we could have the complete change that SF say the people voted for.
Time for FG/FF to have their turn on the opposition benches away from having to make any decisions.

Morgans

I can only imagine how up in arms the intelligencia would be if SF advocated taking 70% control of AIB, 25% of BOI, PTSB. It would be viewed as the end of world as we know it. How disgusted would the press be. Yet, that's where we are and the sky thankfully hasnt fallen in. Media didnt seem to show too many objectors.

splinter65

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Do you seriously believe any parties manifesto is meant to be taken seriously, even FG's Regina Doherty stated no one reads manifestos.

People have voted for SF based on their extensively publicized manifesto and all its promises. Why on earth else do you imagine they voted for them when they never voted for them before?

Kivaro

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Do you seriously believe any parties manifesto is meant to be taken seriously, even FG's Regina Doherty stated no one reads manifestos.

When it involves the following, it should:

1. Return the retirement age to 65. Cost - €368 million per year.
2. End third level fees - €243 million.
3. Abolish the Property Tax, saving families an average of €244 a year. Cost - €485 million per annum.
4. Reduce the cost of childcare by €500 per child per month. Cost - €500 million per annum.
5. Abolish the USC on the first €30,000 earned, saving workers up to €700 per annum. Cost - €1.2bn per annum.
6. Increase Garda numbers to 16,000. Cost - €142 million.
7. End the recruitment ban, hiring 2,500 more nurses and midwives and 1,000 more doctors and consultants. Cost - €358million per annum.
8. Open 1,500 more beds. Cost - €480 million in annual current expenditure and €1bn for capital.
9. Deliver 12 million additional home help hours over the term of the government to clear the waiting list. Cost - €59 million per annum for additional hours.
10. Recruit 2,000 additional civilian staff freeing up Gardaí from desk duties. Cost - €80 million.
11. Build 100,000 homes over 5 years. This will include council housing and affordable homes for renters and first time buyers. Cost - €6.5 billion.

That's just a snippet. The rest can be found here.

Plumbthedepths

splinter65 wrote: »

People have voted for SF based on their extensively publicized manifesto and all its promises. Why on earth else do you imagine they voted for them when they never voted for them before?

If you believe 24% of the electorate voted based on a manifesto I can write you off as being deluded.

Morgans

splinter65 wrote: »

People have voted for SF based on their extensively publicized manifesto and all its promises. Why on earth else do you imagine they voted for them when they never voted for them before?

Can you show us the research on this?

People havent forgotten FF's Recklessness, FG's high-handedness or Labour's lack of spine.

Plumbthedepths

Kivaro wrote: »

When it involves the following, it should:

1. Return the retirement age to 65. Cost - €368 million per year.
2. End third level fees - €243 million.
3. Abolish the Property Tax, saving families an average of €244 a year. Cost - €485 million per annum.
4. Reduce the cost of childcare by €500 per child per month. Cost - €500 million per annum.
5. Abolish the USC on the first €30,000 earned, saving workers up to €700 per annum. Cost - €1.2bn per annum.
6. Increase Garda numbers to 16,000. Cost - €142 million.
7. End the recruitment ban, hiring 2,500 more nurses and midwives and 1,000 more doctors and consultants. Cost - €358million per annum.
8. Open 1,500 more beds. Cost - €480 million in annual current expenditure and €1bn for capital.
9. Deliver 12 million additional home help hours over the term of the government to clear the waiting list. Cost - €59 million per annum for additional hours.
10. Recruit 2,000 additional civilian staff freeing up Gardaí from desk duties. Cost - €80 million.
11. Build 100,000 homes over 5 years. This will include council housing and affordable homes for renters and first time buyers. Cost - €6.5 billion.

That's just a snippet. The rest can be found here.

TLDR , I don't take heed of any party's manifesto as since coalition is a feature of Irish politics and has been for decades a manifesto is the first thing to get thrown out during the talks. Remember Labours of 2011?

Doctor Jimbob

If SF are as big of a threat to the future of this country as you FG/FF heads are making out, why are you happy to just have FF/FG sit it out in opposition? Where's the outrage? Why aren't you imploring your parties to stand up for the country and go in to power together (again)? There's a reasonable argument that the electorate voted for retaining the status quo - over 40% of voters voted for FF and FG combined after all. And yet both parties are content to sit it out. That should result in fear and panic based on some of the posts on here over the last few days, but any time someone asks why FF/FG don't make a push for government, it's all "ah sure let's see what SF do, senior hurling now lads eh? EH?"

It's almost as if they know all the talk about the damage SF would do is just scaremongering.

threeball

I find it amazing that the so called party for irish unification is one of the biggest impediments to it actually happening. Brexit drove us 50% of the way towards unification and SF have in the space of 4 days driven it half way back to where we were. It's almost like they don't want it to happen as they won't have a reason to exist

vriesmays

Will the Defence Forces wages go up now.

splinter65

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

If you believe 24% of the electorate voted based on a manifesto I can write you off as being deluded.

Well why do you think they voted for them, you must have some idea?

Plumbthedepths

splinter65 wrote: »

Well why do you think they voted for them, you must have some idea?

There is a multitude of reasons, protest vote i'm guessing would be quite significant only based on conversations i've had. But I have no research to back up that claim other than my own experience.
Now what's your evidence to make a claim the vote was entirely based on the SF manifesto?

Plumbthedepths

vriesmays wrote: »

Will the Defence Forces wages go up now.

Has the government voted to increase them?

splinter65

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

If SF are as big of a threat to the future of this country as you FG/FF heads are making out, why are you happy to just have FF/FG sit it out in opposition? Where's the outrage? Why aren't you imploring your parties to stand up for the country and go in to power together (again)? There's a reasonable argument that the electorate voted for retaining the status quo - over 40% of voters voted for FF and FG combined after all. And yet both parties are content to sit it out. That should result in fear and panic based on some of the posts on here over the last few days, but any time someone asks why FF/FG don't make a push for government, it's all "ah sure let's see what SF do, senior hurling now lads eh? EH?"

It's almost as if they know all the talk about the damage SF would do is just scaremongering.

My big thing is democracy. There was a democratic vote on Saturday. If the people had wanted more FF/FG they’d have voted for that. People left FF/FG and voted for SF/Greens/independents.
The people voted for a left wing government. That’s what they should get, if at all possible.

Boredstiff666

vriesmays wrote: »

Will the Defence Forces wages go up now.

Every public sector wages will go up now. Its the time of plenty and hairy fairy land where only good things happen.

You want a rise and they say no. Just go on strike. They will double your wages.

Money is nothing. They have plenty.

whisky_galore

mikhail wrote: »

I believe Mary-Lou can return this country what it once was: a deserted wasteland, covered in ice.

You're thinking of the Greens, needs wolves though.

Plumbthedepths

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Every public sector wages will go up now. Its the time of plenty and hairy fairy land where only good things happen.

You want a rise and they say no. Just go on strike. They will double your wages.

Money is nothing. They have plenty.

Didn't FG budget to put up Public sector pay by 2 billion next year, effectively giving away a bargaining position.

gifted

They say they will abolish use on the first €30,000......considering the majority of sinn fein supporters don't work or on low paying jobs then who will get to pick up the shortfall?....yep the middle/ class....

splinter65

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

There is a multitude of reasons, protest vote i'm guessing would be quite significant only based on conversations i've had. But I have no research to back up that claim other than my own experience.
Now what's your evidence to make a claim the vote was entirely based on the SF manifesto?

All the politicians interviewed in the media said that the housing crisis and pension age were 2 of the main gripes on the doorstep. The only party insisting that pension age would be corrected to 65 and 100000 houses costing only 6.5 million would be built in 5 years were SF. Are you suggesting that that’s a coincidence?
Protest vote? So a 1/4 of the voters are just idiots who have blindly picked a candidate they know nothing about?