Ireland in 3 years under a left wing government.

Plumbthedepths

gifted wrote: »

They say they will abolish use on the first €30,000......considering the majority of sinn fein supporters don't work or on low paying jobs then who will get to pick up the shortfall?....yep the middle/ class....

Any idea how many voted on Saturday? Do you think the majority of the 24% that voted for them are on the Dole in a country with full employment. Any chance of a sensible comment?

Plumbthedepths

splinter65 wrote: »

All the politicians interviewed in the media said that the housing crisis and pension age were 2 of the main gripes on the doorstep. The only party insisting that pension age would be corrected to 65 and 100000 houses costing only 6.5 million would be built in 5 years were SF. Are you suggesting that that’s a coincidence?
Protest vote? So a 1/4 of the voters are just idiots who have blindly picked a candidate they know nothing about?

So SF said a 100,000 houses would cost 6.5 million ? Sorry did I say deluded, I think bananas is more appropriate
If you know where these are being built i'd like to buy two, one for each of my sons.€13,000 bargain.

Doctor Jimbob

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

If SF are as big of a threat to the future of this country as you FG/FF heads are making out, why are you happy to just have FF/FG sit it out in opposition?

I love the assumption that anyone who is critical of SF, must be a FG/FF "head".

You do realise that we can dislike SF without being a supporter of the other two major parties....?

It's almost as if they know all the talk about the damage SF would do is just scaremongering.

The various proposals and statements by SF over the years about what they would do if they were in power is a rather strong reason for many people to feel uncomfortable. There simply isn't a lot of realism involved, and their answer to everything is to tax the rich or corporations. And should the rich and the corporations leave, then they'll need to go looking to get their revenue from the Middle class... since they're more interested in the "working class".

I genuinely don't believe a SF government would wreck Ireland while they were in power. The Irish economy has gained the momentum to recover from the recession, and the economy will be able to absorb some of the big spending increases, or the loss in revenue as some people/companies leave. However, it's more about what happens after.

That's really problem with left leaning organisations. They're hellbent on improving life for everyone, but don't consider the long term effects of those changes, and more importantly, how they'll be funded over time. Instead, it'll just be grand.

Don't get me wrong though. FF/FG were just as bad in many ways, but SF are far more socialist in their attitude than the other parties which likely means far more expenditure over time (especially if they decide to introduce new "benefits"). IMHO They'll resolve issues for short term gains, by sacrificing the future (because it'll be someone elses problem by then)

Kivaro

Within their first year of government, Sinn Fein would hold a referendum to enshrine the right to housing in the Constitution.
Is this realistic e.g. anyone who arrives on our shores will have a constitutional right to housing?

UDAWINNER

gifted wrote: »

They say they will abolish use on the first €30,000......considering the majority of sinn fein supporters don't work or on low paying jobs then who will get to pick up the shortfall?....yep the middle/ class....

So the majority of the 24.5% who voted are on the dole or low paid jobs. Deluded with your stereostypes. Typical ff/fg rant.

flanna01

It's all well and good promising increased housing, health care, lower taxes, better pensions etc...

Where is all the money coming from? You take money out of one pot to put into another pot.

I can stand up on my soap box and declare housing for everybody, no more homeless, build more hospitals,no more waiting lists, abolish child care fee's, lower taxation and......A free unicorn for everyone that votes for me!

Realistically - Whoever is in Government, has only got a limited amount of money, its as simple as that. Load up on the housing and hospitals pot, have to diminish some other pot.

People lie, facts can be distorted, spin merchants can make the impossible seem possible..

Crunch the numbers - You can't fool them.

Fr_Dougal

When do we get our LPT refunds?

Dozyart

I only hope the butthurt and tears are still in freeflow on boards,it's a hilarious read spread over so many threads!

Doctor Jimbob

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I love the assumption that anyone who is critical of SF, must be a FG/FF "head".

You do realise that we can dislike SF without being a supporter of the other two major parties....?

I do. I was specifically referring to supports of the other two parties. I accept there are plenty of reasons to not like SF.

The various proposals and statements by SF over the years about what they would do if they were in power is a rather strong reason for many people to feel uncomfortable. There simply isn't a lot of realism involved, and their answer to everything is to tax the rich or corporations. And should the rich and the corporations leave, then they'll need to go looking to get their revenue from the Middle class... since they're more interested in the "working class".

I genuinely don't believe a SF government would wreck Ireland while they were in power. The Irish economy has gained the momentum to recover from the recession, and the economy will be able to absorb some of the big spending increases, or the loss in revenue as some people/companies leave. However, it's more about what happens after.

That's really problem with left leaning organisations. They're hellbent on improving life for everyone, but don't consider the long term effects of those changes, and more importantly, how they'll be funded over time. Instead, it'll just be grand.

Don't get me wrong though. FF/FG were just as bad in many ways, but SF are far more socialist in their attitude than the other parties which likely means far more expenditure over time (especially if they decide to introduce new "benefits"). IMHO They'll resolve issues for short term gains, by sacrificing the future (because it'll be someone elses problem by then)

I'd mostly agree with what you're saying there in fairness. IMO a left wing government in for a few years would do no harm though, as at the moment there are an awful lot of people being left behind who are forgotten about by the other two parties.

Eric Cartman

Any increase in corporate or personal taxation and you can kiss the silicone docks goodbye, therell be no need for dublin social housing when every cleaner, deli worker , security guard and handyman in the city has no professionals to look after anymore

Morgans

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Any increase in corporate or personal taxation and you can kiss the silicone docks goodbye, therell be no need for dublin social housing when every cleaner, deli worker , security guard and handyman in the city has no professionals to look after anymore

As long as there is a white water rafting facility in place after they are gone.

Bill 2.0

Kivaro wrote: »

Within their first year of government, Sinn Fein would hold a referendum to enshrine the right to housing in the Constitution.
Is this realistic e.g. anyone who arrives on our shores will have a constitutional right to housing?

I'll be selling my own gaff and getting me an Obama SF house for free!

Morgans

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I do. I was specifically referring to supports of the other two parties. I accept there are plenty of reasons to not like SF.



I'd mostly agree with what you're saying there in fairness. IMO a left wing government in for a few years would do no harm though, as at the moment there are an awful lot of people being left behind who are forgotten about by the other two parties.

Collateral damage.

We cant scare off the corporations, even when they are adjudged to owe up 13bn. We cannot be seen to collect this tax.

Eric Cartman

Morgans wrote: »

As long as there is a white water rafting facility in place after they are gone.

We can't build that, mary mitchell oconnor might mistake it for a carpark and drown.

maccored

these threads are hilarious

mynamejeff

vriesmays wrote: »

Will the Defence Forces wages go up now.

trying to buy off the only other armed and trained army in the country ?

Fr_Dougal

Bill 2.0 wrote: »

I'll be selling my own gaff and getting me an Obama SF house for free!

I might refuse to pay my mortgage. Constitutional right to own one, sure they can’t take it off me.

Odhinn

maccored wrote: »

these threads are hilarious

Shinnergeddon.

Kivaro

Odhinn wrote: »

Shinnergeddon.

Brilliant.

uck51js9zml2yt

I'm looking forward to them doing what 100 years of government couldn't do. Give us a state where housing, health, childcare and infrastructure are perfect and we are not bankrupt.

Eric Cartman

Breakerz wrote: »

A true left wing government just isn't going to happen. Sinn Fein might describe themselves as left wing but their version of left wing and RBB version are further away than SF and FF/FG. Similarly, the social democrats would be very far away from SOL-PBP etc. The Greens just want the environment portfolio and would likely support any government as long as they get some power.

I think labels are pretty useless these days anyway. Many FF members would describe themselves are centre-left.

jesus it hasnt even started and we're already at "that wasnt real socialism"

dulpit

mullinr2 wrote: »

How do you see Ireland under a left government? Be realistic.

You said be realistic but your op isn't. If you're really being realistic, in 3 years the country will largely be the same. Some people will feel better off, some people will feel like they're not being supported by the government, some people won't care either way. The people who feel aggrieved might be different, and in all probability they are probably going to be overreacting to some things but not to others.

Health will probably still be brutal, although housing will probably be better. Whether that'll be because of the government specifically, not sure. But largely the same all told.

maccored

Odhinn wrote: »

Shinnergeddon.

Reads like whinging to me

enricoh

Interest on government bonds will rise if they get in leaving even less money in the pot.
There's a global recession nearly overdue at this stage, might be problematic for all the spending plans.
I wish them luck, I think a lot of the young people that voted for them expect them to have everything fixed by crimbo!

Edgware

Eric Cartman wrote: »

jesus it hasnt even started and we're already at "that wasnt real socialism"

Albania is the only true model.

sondagefaux

mullinr2 wrote: »

What would Ireland look like in 3 to 5 years if the lefties get their way?
I reckon there would be a high unemployment rate due to many multinationals upping sticks because of higher taxes. Not only will this affect those jobs in those industries, it would have a knock on affect in the service industry.
We would also be further away from a United Ireland. A border poll showing that people in the North don't want to be part of a leftist state and would be financially better off in the UK.
By abolishing the USC and Property Taxes along with many multinationals leaving, the government has **** all money to spend.

How do you see Ireland under a left government? Be realistic.

I foresee a massively inflated property bubble, made even worse by government tax breaks to encourage house building, with most banks exposed to potentially very difficult to recover loans as they give out mortgages and unsecured loans to all and sundry, even the most high risk borrowers, on the utterly unrealistic expectation that property prices will continue to increase.

I foresee a huge economic crash when this property bubble bursts, with mass layoffs in the construction sector, banks facing collapse, the state stepping in to save the banks, a huge and rapid increase in unemployment, a huge fall in tax revenues, a huge increase in state spending on unemployment payments, and eventually the state's finances coming under such strain that it is forced to seek a multi-billion euro bailout, with the lenders of last resort requiring austerity measures, big cuts to public spending, big increases in taxation, in return.

I foresee major cutbacks to public services, a near complete halt in public infrastructure projects, and widespread public anger and dissatisfaction with the government parties, with the government coalition eventually fracturing, followed by an election in which they are given a well-deserved kicking by the electorate.

The new government will be taking on the incredibly difficult task of putting a very badly damaged economy and society back together.

It will eventually succeed, having managed just about to stay in power (in a new, minority coalition), for a second term, but this will take nearly 10 years, won't fix all the problems caused by the previous government and won't fix new problems arising during its time in government.

In its turn, this government, elected initially as a government of hope and change, will become too unpopular to be able to easily form a government after a general election, and will be beaten into third place, with yet another party offering hope and change surging into first place.

Sorry: I just realised you wanted predictions of massively negative economic and social outcomes from a left-wing government.

Instead I gave you a very brief outline of what actually happened in Ireland under 'moderate, sensible, grown-up' governments in the past 15 years or so.

My bad.

Maewyn Succat

mullinr2 wrote: »

What would Ireland look like in 3 to 5 years if the lefties get their way?
I reckon there would be a high unemployment rate due to many multinationals upping sticks because of higher taxes. Not only will this affect those jobs in those industries, it would have a knock on affect in the service industry.
We would also be further away from a United Ireland. A border poll showing that people in the North don't want to be part of a leftist state and would be financially better off in the UK.
By abolishing the USC and Property Taxes along with many multinationals leaving, the government has **** all money to spend.

How do you see Ireland under a left government? Be realistic.

Maybe that's how they plan of solving the housing and health crisis. Less people living in the country because of people leaving the country equals more available housing without the hassle of having to build them and less people means less pressure on hospitals.

Isn't that what the election was about after all? No mention of the economy or Brexit...just get health and housing sorted without asking too many questions about how they are going to do it.

Morgans

Maewyn Succat wrote: »

Isn't that what the election was about after all? No mention of the economy or Brexit...just get health and housing sorted without asking too many questions about how they are going to do it.

Cant remember an election when it wasnt about that. Where was FG on that Universal Health Care plan they had in 2010?

Sir Oxman

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

I have lived under a 'Left Wing' government.

At first it sounds great. Everything is going to get fixed. Everything is going to get better. Everything looks rosy. Wages just keep going up. Everybody wants a council job. Sweeping the streets pays more than any tradesman. Joining a Union is the first thing you do before you get a job.

It is smiles all around and everybody is happy.

Then one day someone looks at the bank balance. They get told to hide it. But one day there is no where left to hide them.

So there is no money. So everyone goes on strike. So nothing ever gets done. The streets are full of rubbish. Everything is broke and doesn't work. The power keeps going off. The TV is off because they are on strike. The phones arent working. There is no water. etc etc etc.

I do not want to live under a socialist Government again. They are a pure disaster.

The scary bit of that sounds like FF up to 1969-1973, then FG-Lab 1973-1977, then FF 1977-1981, then FG-Lab 1981-1982, then FF 1982, then FG-Lab 1982-1987, then FF 1989, then FF-Lab 1992-1994

Idbatterim

mullinr2 wrote: »

What would Ireland look like in 3 to 5 years if the lefties get their way?
I reckon there would be a high unemployment rate due to many multinationals upping sticks because of higher taxes. Not only will this affect those jobs in those industries, it would have a knock on affect in the service industry.
We would also be further away from a United Ireland. A border poll showing that people in the North don't want to be part of a leftist state and would be financially better off in the UK.
By abolishing the USC and Property Taxes along with many multinationals leaving, the government has **** all money to spend.

How do you see Ireland under a left government? Be realistic.

by abolishing those, it has less money to waste. didnt the party of prudence, FG a few years ago, say they would abolish USC. LPT generates a pittance, E500,000,000 a year, less than they typicall blow every budget increasing welfare. They constantly skate around LPT increases, government I mean. Its the only time, where people lie about the value of their property, and all of a sudden, its half the market value, they used to boast about to their mates in the local...

any way, we already have left wing governance, outrageous welfare system, free luxury apartments, coming to a significant number near you soon! Dundrum was just the start, of course, they will be rented out , for a pittance, assuming the occupants are bothered paying. A massive amount of workers contributing virtually nothing in income related taxes. The fortune comes corporation tax and mid to high earners.


We hear about tax rates and the effects, scaremongering "oh they will leave and give up the fortune, if asked to pay a pittance higher , than the pittance they pay in tax." They wont! We already have economically damaging income tax rates, the marginal tax rates, effecting enterprise and is past the point of diminishing returns in many cases. I am meant to be scared of companies and the banks, getting away with murder, while we tax people from low incomes at a FIFTY percent marginal rate? LOL! LOL!