Ireland in 3 years under a left wing government.

IAMAMORON

Granny15 wrote: »

Agreed and its these same bankers that wiped millions off stock market value of Irish companies when Sinn Fein got elected. They think they dictate the course of things but they are simply writing their own death warrants and that of international financial capitalism. The kind that goes into countries builds econometric models that predict exponential double digits economic growth and saddles them with debt. It uses the debt to bribe and blackmail them into following their distorted foreign policy. It's new age colonialism and it stinks to the highest heavens.

All very true, but if you put too much salt in the stew even the dog won't eat it.

BluePlanet

BluePlanet wrote: »

Learn flipping Polish then Klaz.

I already am. Along with Russian, and Italian. Anyway, I tend to live in Asia... and I already speak mandarin.

Oh! was there a point to that suggestion?

You should know by now the myriad of chronic under investment in our infrastructure across sectors: Health, Housing, Transport, Education etc etc.
Systems totally creaking having been neglected and run into the ground for about a decade now by FF/FG.

And what? Where have I defended FF/FG? And those issues have been there for more than a decade...

You'd like to protect the earnings of the richest companies in the world such is your prerogative.

Again... where have I stated such?

This is simply more deflection. I said that companies will probably leave due to a hostile government, and tax hikes. Others said that they won't, but don't provide anything to back up that belief.... I provide reasons why Poland is a viable alternative to Ireland, and posters get annoyed. :rolleyes: Rather than deal with what I've said, deflect it elsewhere.

I'll go along with socialized supports and safety nets, things that benefit ordinary people.

Sure. I'd go with them too by having an economy that can afford them. Not afford them in the short term, but can afford them in the long term without increasing national debt.

It's amazing the attitude here. You're all willing to refer to the banking crash/recession for reasons not to like FF, but you're so hellbent on implementing the same reckless behaviors that FF did. All for the "best" of reasons, but it amounts to the same thing. Increased spending, but cutting down the money tree.

Markcheese

Is there any point in dire predictions ?

We don't know what shape of a government we're even going to get yet ...

Or what their program of government will be ..
All we have are election promise (which are soon forgotten by all parties as soon as the harsh realities of government and coalition hit home ,)

I don't think SF could instantly deliver jam for all without trashing the economy ,
Similarly fg in a coalition couldn't keep going as they were ,without ensuring they'd never again get in ..
Feic knows what fianna fail really want ( or promised )
The greens are a middle class protest vote, politically they'd probably be better off outside of government pissing in ... But their probably too high minded for that 😂

It's a bit of a Mexican stand off ...

Plumbthedepths

BarryD2 wrote: »

Agree in substance, but if they do form a coalition for practical reasons of running the state you can be sure they'll be HAMMERING home the message that SF have failed. The opposition can do all the sniping it wants but that message will be brought out at every possible opportunity.

How can SF be accused of failure when the numbers without FF or FG don't exist to form a government?

tayto lover

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

How can SF be accused of failure when the numbers without FF or FG don't exist to form a government?

FF and FG combined have only 73 seats.
There’s still 87 left.
Plenty to form a Govt.

I’d like to see them as a junior party in power with FF. They have some very good people and some good policies BUT some of their policies are pie in the sky.

IAMAMORON

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

SF doesn't have to scream for another election, if FF and FG don't agree to form a government with the support of a.n. other party after SF's doomed to fail attempts the only option is another election which according to the Journals Lise Hand terrifies FF and FG.

I think you answered your own rant there?

KWAG2019

Seriously triggered Blueshirts roaming social media today. Great entertainment.

GreeBo

splinter65 wrote: »

My big thing is democracy. There was a democratic vote on Saturday. If the people had wanted more FF/FG they’d have voted for that. People left FF/FG and voted for SF/Greens/independents.
The people voted for a left wing government. That’s what they should get, if at all possible.

Did they?
What percentage of people voted for the left?
If it was a majority your think they could form a government

nkl12xtw5goz70

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

SF doesn't have to scream for another election, if FF and FG don't agree to form a government with the support of a.n. other party after SF's doomed to fail attempts the only option is another election which according to the Journals Lise Hand terrifies FF and FG.

FF and FG have nothing to fear from another election.

Clips of SF TDs chanting "Up the Ra" have shown people what they really voted for.

Then we have Gerry Adams attending the SF parliamentary meeting today, signaling that the party's elected representatives will be taking their marching orders from unelected power brokers. People don't want the shadowy hand of the IRA running their government.

Morgans

Lawson Hallowed Pasteboard wrote: »

FF and FG have nothing to fear from another election.

Clips of SF TDs chanting "Up the Ra" have shown people what they really voted for.

Then we have Gerry Adams attending the SF parliamentary meeting today, signaling that the party's elected representatives will be taking their marching orders from unelected power brokers. People don't want the shadowy hand of the IRA running their government.

The idea that FF and FG dont have unelected power brokers is gas. What did FG do about the findings from the Moriarity Tribunal report again? That FG werent willing to piss off their unelected power brokers to favour those in need of help is the reason why they are where they are now.

mariaalice

I don't know why everyone is getting so exercised, they will be pulling the head of each other and blaming everyone within months of being in power.

mariaalice

SF have positioned itself very well from the get-go.

Happy to go into a coalition but careful to say if it does not work it will be them not us, thus both being in power and having someone to blame if it all goes wrong.

Morgans

Morgans wrote: »

The idea that FF and FG dont have unelected power brokers is gas.

Except that he didn't even suggest that FF/FG did or didn't. He referred to SF and their connection to the IRA.

Perhaps deal with that rather than deflecting constantly to FF/FG? I mean it. It seems like every time there's any criticism of SF, the response is to refer to FF/FG rather than actually dealing with the criticism itself.

machaseh

Ireland under a leftist government:

- Important public transportation infrastructure will finally be built.
- Important cycling infrastructure will finally be built.
- Fewer homeless people, more social housing, rents will become affordable or at least will stop getting more and more expensive every single year for the middle class.
- The public health care system will greatly improve.
- Hopefully more moves towards cannabis legalization and regulation.

Plumbthedepths

Lawson Hallowed Pasteboard wrote: »

FF and FG have nothing to fear from another election.

Somehow I think you are wrong, it wouldn't be long before you hear 'the electorate don't want another election, we need to act in the national interest".

UDAWINNER

Fred Cryton wrote: »

We have got to keep those Shinners out for as long as possible. Pascal having to reassure the multinationals today to continue to invest. I work with multinationals and this country is going down the toilet if SF get in. Give it 5 years and FF /FG can co-ordinate at the next election, perhaps stepping aside in certain constituencies to help the other. The situation is that serious people, the country is really on the edge of a precipice now. If you are middle class, the enemy are at the gates.

Does FFG pay you to post otherwise why would you register a new account to post that drivel

Morgans

Deleted User wrote: »

Except that he didn't even suggest that FF/FG did or didn't. He referred to SF and their connection to the IRA.

The quote was:

Then we have Gerry Adams attending the SF parliamentary meeting today, signaling that the party's elected representatives will be taking their marching orders from unelected power brokers.

Deleted User wrote: »

Perhaps deal with that rather than deflecting constantly to FF/FG? I mean it. It seems like every time there's any criticism of SF, the response is to refer to FF/FG rather than actually dealing with the criticism itself.

This is a simplistic point. Most of the criticisms of SF are well founded but have not been a topic of current affairs conversation when FF/FG performed similarly. It is exactly the double standards at play from most of the criticisms that are being pointed out.

I'm not a SF supporter but the one eyed hypocrisy from those criticizing them sickens.

Phoebas

machaseh wrote: »

Ireland under a leftist government:

- Important public transportation infrastructure will finally be built.
- Important cycling infrastructure will finally be built.
- Fewer homeless people, more social housing, rents will become affordable or at least will stop getting more and more expensive every single year for the middle class.
- The public health care system will greatly improve.
- Hopefully more moves towards cannabis legalization and regulation.

You'd have to have partaken in the last point in order to believe the first 4 points.

daithi84

Most of Europe has had left wing governments and were/are grand, i fail to see why Ireland would be any different.

Morgans

Morgans wrote: »

The quote was:

Then we have Gerry Adams attending the SF parliamentary meeting today, signaling that the party's elected representatives will be taking their marching orders from unelected power brokers.

Yup. I know. I read it. Any mention of FF/FG in there?

This is a simplistic point. Most of the criticisms of SF are well founded but have not been a topic of current affairs conversation when FF/FG performed similarly. It is exactly the double standards at play from most of the criticisms that are being pointed out.

I'm not a SF supporter but the one eyed hypocrisy from those criticizing them sickens.

A simplistic point that few people willing to actually discuss, and instead seek to deflect it on to FF/FG? Yup. I've noticed.

There are loads of threads on CA and previously on AH complaining about FF/FG...You really believe that there is a double standard on boards regarding the political parties? Go back a few pages to those threads listed prior to the election, and they were highlighting everything bad about both FF/FG.

SF are in the spotlight now due to the results of the election.

Morgans

And rightly so. Yet this thread is outlining how the roof will fall in on Ireland now that SF are in power. Yet seem to blithly forget that the roof did fall in on Ireland 10 years ago - and for the most part are alright. This thread was started to outline how in 3 years of a left wing government - like not even hard core socialism - we will be eating grass, knocked back to the 30s, multinationals ready to flee, bank stocks wiped etc.

I don't think that there is an inherent bias on boards, there is a bias in general and certainly among several posters who happily spout the same old horse****e criticisms with little reflection.

Morgans

Morgans wrote: »

And rightly so. Yet this thread is outlining how the roof will fall in on Ireland now that SF are in power. Yet seem to blithly forget that the roof did fall in on Ireland 10 years ago - and for the most part are alright. This thread was started to outline how in 3 years of a left wing government - like not even hard core socialism - we will be eating grass, knocked back to the 30s, multinationals ready to flee, bank stocks wiped etc.

I don't think that there is an inherent bias on boards, there is a bias in general and certainly among several posters who happily spout the same old horse****e criticisms with little reflection.

The thread title is " Ireland in 3 years under a left wing government".. not " the destruction of Ireland under SF".

Most of us are talking about SF because of the election... and many of us have said that we don't see SF destroying the country within their term of office. I certainly don't. I'm concerned with what comes after.

As for spouting the same old criticisms... I'd be happy to stop, if they were properly addressed.

Morgans

Deleted User wrote: »

The thread title is " Ireland in 3 years under a left wing government".. not " the destruction of Ireland under SF".

Most of us are talking about SF because of the election... and many of us have said that we don't see SF destroying the country within their term of office. I certainly don't. I'm concerned with what comes after.

Well done. And I haven't commented on anything you have posted, until you decided to engage with a comment on unelected power brokers. So, what's your point?

tallaghtfornia

All I can say is thank God for the EU.
They wont let them away with some of the mad promises they have given.

Morgans

Morgans wrote: »

Yet seem to blithly forget that the roof did fall in on Ireland 10 years ago

And I'll never forget the roof falling in a decade ago. It's the reason I spend most of my time abroad... and have only just managed to get my mortgage away from negative equity.

This is my problem with those who oppose citicisms to SF. Many posters here seem to think that if someone is querying SF behavior, claims or criticising them outright, then they must like FF/FG. Or that we have forgotten what the banking crash was like. Or that we should just leave if we don't like it. :rolleyes:

Nope. I'll never forget losing my savings, my job, and leaving the country because I couldn't afford to stay while paying my mortgage/debts. I wasn't a property investor or someone playing the market. I was someone who bought a house for myself to live in, well before the crash, and got screwed by the political parties/banks. So... no. I haven't forgotten FF, and I'll never forgive them.

Doesn't mean that I'll blindly accept SF simply because they're the only party that hasn't screwed us yet.

Morgans

Morgans wrote: »

Well done. And I haven't commented on anything you have posted, until you decided to engage with a comment on unelected power brokers. So, what's your point?

Seriously? You don't see the irony to that objection?

(my point was that I agreed with Permabear II... )

joebloggs32

I always think be careful what you wish for.

Yes FG messed up with stuff like the children's hospital, and broadband. Fianna Fail failed to breaks on a runaway economy when they were in power but we all can remember every other party at the time screaming for more, more, more. What happened in the crash was just fire fighting. There was no manual to follow and unfortunately the EU backed us into a corner.
We do have issues in health ( what country doesn't? ) and housing obviously as a result of a lost decade. However the quality of life Ireland is still one of the best in the world according to the united nations Human Development Index.

http://hdr.undp.org/en/content/2019-human-development-index-ranking

I dont fear a centre left government. Would love if Soc Dems had been the ones who had captured the move to the left, but I am genuinely fearful of what a hard left government could do to our country.

Bill 2.0

machaseh wrote: »

Ireland under a leftist government:

- Important public transportation infrastructure will finally be built.
- Important cycling infrastructure will finally be built.
- Fewer homeless people, more social housing, rents will become affordable or at least will stop getting more and more expensive every single year for the middle class.
- The public health care system will greatly improve.
- Hopefully more moves towards cannabis legalization and regulation.

All paid for by "de rich", AKA "anyone on over 35k a year pre-tax".

Morgans

Deleted User wrote: »

And I'll never forget the roof falling in a decade ago. It's the reason I spend most of my time abroad... and have only just managed to get my mortgage away from negative equity.

This is my problem with those who oppose citicisms to SF. Many posters here seem to think that if someone is querying SF behavior, claims or criticising them outright, then they must like FF/FG. Or that we have forgotten what the banking crash was like. Or that we should just leave if we don't like it. :rolleyes:

Nope. I'll never forget losing my savings, my job, and leaving the country because I couldn't afford to stay while paying my mortgage/debts. I wasn't a property investor or someone playing the market. I was someone who bought a house for myself to live in, well before the crash, and got screwed by the political parties/banks. So... no. I haven't forgotten FF, and I'll never forgive them.

Doesn't mean that I'll blindly accept SF simply because they're the only party that hasn't screwed us yet.

Good. That's fair. I would characterise hard left policies of renationalisations - be it broadband, public transport, infrastructure. Those would be interesting debates to have. However, what SF are proposing are nowhere near hard left. You wouldnt think it from the majority of posts on here. And it wont take long for someone to prove my point. I'd hope someone like you would spell out how it was tax breaks for the rich, light touch regulation and a continued kow-towing to the weathly that gave you that lost decade.

IAMAMORON

machaseh wrote: »

Ireland under a leftist government:

- Important public transportation infrastructure will finally be built.
- Important cycling infrastructure will finally be built.
- Fewer homeless people, more social housing, rents will become affordable or at least will stop getting more and more expensive every single year for the middle class.
- The public health care system will greatly improve.
- Hopefully more moves towards cannabis legalization and regulation.

Looking forward to all of these.

Should be great. Especially the cycle lanes, it was obvious from the far right manifesto that this was not being considered, Nazi bastards. They weren't too keen on the weed growing either, what a gang of dopes.

I am glad that the Cabinet will now be able to cycle to Leinster house stoned off their bins, it should help shore up the traffic issue.

It will be interesting to hear the HSE recommendations on where they intend to build the glass houses, I presume they are taking over the growing of THC? Nice of them to offer.