Ireland in 3 years under a left wing government.

Morgans

Morgans wrote: »

Someone like you is someone who does not seem to be partisan and kicking out for the sake of it..

I'm not kicking for the sake of it. FF got away with their behavior prior to the crash because few people pushed the hard questions. There was little discussion about their policies and little oversight over how they were actually operating the country.

You're right. I'm not a supporter of any party. I've always considered Irish political parties to be corrupt and lacking in vision from a practical and reasonable sense. If FF or FG were pushing similar changes for the economy, I'd still be asking these questions.

I don't have time right now to fully answer your post. Will do so a little later.

GreeBo

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I'll leave this here in answer to the first part of your questions.


https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/10/portugal-election-progressives-left-winning/599518/

Unemployment rate: 6.5% (Oct 2019) Eurostat
Minimum wage: 700.00 EUR per month (Jul 2019) Eurostat
Gross domestic product: 217.6 billion USD (2017) World Bank
GDP per capita: 21,136.30 USD (2017) World Bank
Government debt: 122.2% of GDP (2018) Eurostat
GDP growth rate: 2.7% annual change (2017)


Unemployment rate: 4.8% (Oct 2019) Eurostat
Minimum wage: 1,656.20 EUR per month (Jul 2019) Eurostat
Gross domestic product: 333.7 billion USD (2017) World Bank
GDP per capita: 69,330.69 USD (2017) World Bank
Government debt: 63.6% of GDP (2018) Eurostat
GDP growth rate: 7.8% annual change (2017) World Bank


Which of these countries do you want to live in and which do you think you currently live in?

Plumbthedepths

GreeBo wrote: »

Unemployment rate: 6.5% (Oct 2019) Eurostat
Minimum wage: 700.00 EUR per month (Jul 2019) Eurostat
Gross domestic product: 217.6 billion USD (2017) World Bank
GDP per capita: 21,136.30 USD (2017) World Bank
Government debt: 122.2% of GDP (2018) Eurostat
GDP growth rate: 2.7% annual change (2017)


Unemployment rate: 4.8% (Oct 2019) Eurostat
Minimum wage: 1,656.20 EUR per month (Jul 2019) Eurostat
Gross domestic product: 333.7 billion USD (2017) World Bank
GDP per capita: 69,330.69 USD (2017) World Bank
Government debt: 63.6% of GDP (2018) Eurostat
GDP growth rate: 7.8% annual change (2017) World Bank


Which of these countries do you want to live in and which do you think you currently live in?

I gave you an example, then you engage in your own whataboutery, up the yard lad.
Although give the cost of living for both countries just for compare and contrast. Also for kicks and giggles.

GreeBo

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I gave you an example, then you engage in your own whataboutery, up the yard lad.

It's not whataboutery.
Its comparing the current economic state of Ireland to Portugal.
Ireland, under FG + FF is streets ahead of your shining example of a left run economy.

Plumbthedepths

GreeBo wrote: »

It's not whataboutery.
Its comparing the current economic state of Ireland to Portugal.
Ireland, under FG + FF is streets ahead of your shining example of a left run economy.

Ah but you asked for an example, I suggest you learn what the state of the country was when they took over form a grouping of similar nature to what we have here. The challenges they faced to put their people first in stark contrast to what FF/FG did here.
My shining example? You asked for an example I decided to respond. Save your sneering response for the school yard.

GreeBo

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I gave you an example, then you engage in your own whataboutery, up the yard lad.
Although give the cost of living for both countries just for compare and contrast. Also for kicks and giggles.

Cost of living?
For a family of four a month:
In Ireland its €4,783
In Portugal €2,715

I'll refer back to the minimum wages in each country

Ireland: €1,656.20
Portugal: €700

So as long as you are actually off your arse and working, you are still better off in Ireland.

Plumbthedepths

GreeBo wrote: »

Cost of living?
For a family of four a month:
In Ireland its €4,783
In Portugal €2,715

I'll refer back to the minimum wages in each country

Ireland: €1,656.20
Portugal: €700

So as long as you are actually off your arse and working, you are still better off in Ireland.

Sorry lad but evidence please.
Housing , food, childcare, utilities.etc.
Not interested in discussing arses wrong forum.

GreeBo

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Sorry lad but evidence please.
Housing , food, childcare, utilities.etc.
Not interested in discussing arses wrong forum.

https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/country/portugal

https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/country/ireland

nthclare

Im just wondering will there be more money in our pockets next year with the new government in?

Say if someone is on 28k a year will their take home pay be more with Sinn Feinns proposals?

Geuze

In terms of CT, the SF manifesto proposes just a few changes.

Two of the proposals concern banks:
(1) restricting the carry-forward of past losses = 175m
(2) extra bank levy = 50m


The only other proposal that I can see is restricting the treatment of capital allowances = 722m

"Introducing an 80% cap on profits offset by capital allowances for intangible
assets that were onshored between 2015 and 2018 by multinationals. This
follows a recommendation made by the Chair of the Irish Fiscal Advisory
Council in a report commissioned by the Department for Finance but ignored
by the Government"


FUNDING REAL CHANGE AND A BETTER FUTURE – Tax Revenue €3.8 BILLION
- End the corporation tax break for the banks €175 million
- Increase income from the annual bank levy €50 million
- Tax intangible assets onshored by multinationals €722 million
- Introduce a 5% high income levy on individual incomes above €140,000 €452 million
- Taper out tax credits on individual incomes over €100,000 to €140,000 €260 million
- Introduce a wealth tax for the wealthiest 1% in the State at a rate of 1% on the
portion of net wealth held over €1 million with a number of exemptions including farms €89 million
Abolish the Special Assignee Relief Programme €23 million
- Increase Capital Acquisition Tax by 3% to rate of 36% €45 million
- Reduce subsidies to gold-plated pensions by reducing the earnings
limit and reducing the Standard Fund Threshold to €1.2 million €494 million
- Introduce a 15.75% rate of employer’s PRSI on portion of salaries
over €100,000 €532 million
- Increase excise duty on a packet of cigarettes over 5 years €175 million
- Increase Stamp Duty on commercial property to 12.5% €440 million
- Increase the Dividend Withholding Tax on REITs and IREFs to 33% €20 million
- Increase the Vacant Site Levy to 15% to prevent land hoarding €107 million
- Introduce a 2nd home charge at a rate of €400 €104 million
- Replace Help-to-Buy scheme with pubic and affordable homes €102 million

Geuze

nthclare wrote: »

Im just wondering will there be more money in our pockets next year with the new government in?

Say if someone is on 28k a year will their take home pay be more with Sinn Feinns proposals?

https://www.sinnfein.ie/files/2020/SF_GE2020_Manifesto.pdf

GIVING WORKERS AND FAMILIES A BREAK – Tax Spend €2.4 BILLION
- Abolish USC on the first €30,000 earned €1,219 million
- Abolish Local Property Tax €485 million
- Increase Earned Income Credit to €1,650 €35 million
- 1 month rent relief €301 million
- Retain Mortgage interest relief €35 million
- Restore tax credit for trade union membership €40 million
- End Motor tax surcharge for quarterly and 6-month payments €43 million
- Abolish 3% stamp duty on non-life insurance policies €160 million
- Abolish 2% levy on non-life insurance policies €69 million

Geuze

nthclare wrote: »

Im just wondering will there be more money in our pockets next year with the new government in?

Say if someone is on 28k a year will their take home pay be more with Sinn Feinns proposals?

Based on their manifesto, yes, as LPT will be abolished, and USC cut.

However, they plan 22bn of extra spending over five years, yet raise just 1.4bn in extra tax.

Am I missing something?

woohoo!!!

FF have set the standard in how to wreck a countries finances, more than once zi might add.

The first FG government under the troika held the fiscally conservative line. The second one, not really, they constantly dipped into unsustainable bumper corp tax for both day to day spending and dept over-rule, notably health. Look up the fiscal advisory council.

So we have another Irish tory lovers tread bashing SF, and citing Venezuela. I'd instead cite other European left countries who have seen successes and failures under left or social democratic type governments. Where I'd be wary is SF stealing FF clothes and the blatantly populist route.

topper75

"Economic Policy"
a story for adult children by Hans Christian Andersonstown

nthclare

Geuze wrote: »

Based on their manifesto, yes, as LPT will be abolished, and USC cut.

However, they plan 22bn of extra spending over five years, yet raise just 1.4bn in extra tax.

Am I missing something?

So like a lot of politicians they vary in maths.

Yeah I was wondering was their proposal a suggestion or factual.

Or a metaphor of how they could sort out peoples finances.

Eric Cartman

machaseh wrote: »

Ireland under a leftist government:

- Important public transportation infrastructure will finally be built.
- Important cycling infrastructure will finally be built.
- Fewer homeless people, more social housing, rents will become affordable or at least will stop getting more and more expensive every single year for the middle class.
- The public health care system will greatly improve.
- Hopefully more moves towards cannabis legalization and regulation.

Im not shocked you have included that last one there.

Idbatterim

woohoo!!! wrote: »

FF have set the standard in how to wreck a countries finances, more than once zi might add.

The first FG government under the troika held the fiscally conservative line. The second one, not really, they constantly dipped into unsustainable bumper corp tax for both day to day spending and dept over-rule, notably health. Look up the fiscal advisory council.

So we have another Irish tory lovers tread bashing SF, and citing Venezuela. I'd instead cite other European left countries who have seen successes and failures under left or social democratic type governments. Where I'd be wary is SF stealing FF clothes and the blatantly populist route.

yeah on polling day, when I was still in two minds over giving FG a vote, they neednt make me laugh with talking about prudence, more prudent than the other parties here? probably, but certainly not prudent! Like you say "woohoo" what happens when the money from corporation tax starts slowing or takes a big hit, you still have black holes like health and welfare, where the hell will they find the money to continue on as is, the national debt is over two hundred billion!

topper75

machaseh wrote: »

ever been to scandinavia?

We don't have North Sea oil, steel, huge forests, and coal. Nor do we have any subvention from Westminster.

SF economics is fairytales for adults.

mynamejeff

machaseh wrote: »

ever been to scandinavia?

yes I have finland for many years

without the billions from oil and gas that they have they would be a basket case and may yet be due to environmentalist panic



same way NI will not survive with out the billions it gets from the UK every year

something I personally dont want to pay for to satisfy some dewy eyed republican wet dream

GreeBo

nthclare wrote: »

Im just wondering will there be more money in our pockets next year with the new government in?

Say if someone is on 28k a year will their take home pay be more with Sinn Feinns proposals?

The only new thing in our pockets will be our hands as we wait for our weekly state stipend, reminiscing about what it was like when we were a hugely successful country with full employment.

Yurt2

mynamejeff wrote: »

yes I have finland for many years

without the billions from oil and gas that they have they would be a basket case and may yet be due to environmentalist panic



same way NI will not survive with out the billions it gets from the UK every year

something I personally dont want to pay for to satisfy some dewy eyed republican wet dream

Are you sure were in Finland or not having fever dream? Because Finland has no oil reserves and is 100 percent dependant on Russia for gas.

This forum sometimes, you hear the biggest pile of sh*te in order to justify entrenched positions.

blanch152

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Sorry lad but evidence please.
Housing , food, childcare, utilities.etc.
Not interested in discussing arses wrong forum.

He gave you evidence, you gave him anecdotes. By the way, the plural of anecdote is not data.

GreeBo wrote: »

Unemployment rate: 6.5% (Oct 2019) Eurostat
Minimum wage: 700.00 EUR per month (Jul 2019) Eurostat
Gross domestic product: 217.6 billion USD (2017) World Bank
GDP per capita: 21,136.30 USD (2017) World Bank
Government debt: 122.2% of GDP (2018) Eurostat
GDP growth rate: 2.7% annual change (2017)


Unemployment rate: 4.8% (Oct 2019) Eurostat
Minimum wage: 1,656.20 EUR per month (Jul 2019) Eurostat
Gross domestic product: 333.7 billion USD (2017) World Bank
GDP per capita: 69,330.69 USD (2017) World Bank
Government debt: 63.6% of GDP (2018) Eurostat
GDP growth rate: 7.8% annual change (2017) World Bank


Which of these countries do you want to live in and which do you think you currently live in?

blanch152

Yurt! wrote: »

Are you sure were in Finland or not having fever dream? Because Finland has no oil reserves and is 100 percent dependant on Russia for gas.

This forum sometimes, you hear the biggest pile of sh*te in order to justify entrenched positions.

€15 for a glass of wine, Finland?

Yurt2

blanch152 wrote: »

€15 for a glass of wine, Finland?

You want to go through the Finnish Consumer Price index now?

The level of meltdown here from the right. It's a mass tantrum.

Fake oil reserves, the price of Merlot in Helsinki. You saps will stop at nothing even when you're making royal ars*s of yourselves.

YEAH BUT WHAT ABOUT THE PRICE OF TOFEEPOPS IN MALMÖ?!?

Snickers Man

rossie1977 wrote: »

Corporations aren't going to pull out of Ireland because they are asked to pay their fair share. Look at the US, California has big tax rates yet corporations continue to headquarter there rather than Wyoming or next door in Nevada who have zero corporation tax.

That's cause there's nothing IN Wyoming, except cows.
And Nevada's a desert.

"The English have a strange fondness for desolate places. They love the desert. No Arab loves the desert. There is nothing IN the desert. We love water and green trees."
Sheikh Feisal to TE Laurence in the film, Laurence of Arabia

Obsessive Biblical Edwardian Englishmen maybe; Multinationals rather less so.

Ush1

Yurt! wrote: »

You want to go through the Finnish Consumer Price index now?

The level of meltdown here from the right. It's a mass tantrum.

Fake oil reserves, the price of Merlot in Helsinki. You saps will stop at nothing even when you're making royal ars*s of yourselves.

YEAH BUT WHAT ABOUT THE PRICE OF TOFEEPOPS IN MALMÖ?!?

Tbh, you seem to be having the meltdown mate.

Yurt2

Ush1 wrote: »

Tbh, you seem to be having the meltdown mate.

Sure thing Ush. I'm surprised you haven't worn your fingers down to bloody stumps with all the rage posting you've being doing the last few days.

Annabella1

Taxing everyone over 140k will include every hospital consultant

Good luck with improving the health service

Ush1

Yurt! wrote: »

Sure thing Ush. I'm surprised you haven't worn your fingers down to bloody stumps with all the rage posting you've being doing the last few days.

No rage here, I'm not calling people "saps". Fairly sure you've been posting more than me.

Plumbthedepths

blanch152 wrote: »

He gave you evidence, you gave him anecdotes. By the way, the plural of anecdote is not data.

What are you taking about? The poster asked for an example of a leftwing government, I linked an article highlighting a left wing Portuguese government. He then proceeded to engage in whataboutery. You on the other hand your usual misrepresentation, what a surprise. Disingenuous as always.