Why are health waiting lists and housing crisis happening elsewhere.

Eric Cartman

If the health and housing crisis are completely the fault of FF or FG or both, why are canada, the uk, australia , the US and most other countries having problems with housing and other countries with similar medical system models having the same issue with health ? surely if voting for different politicians could fix this then it wouldnt be happening in other countries ?


https://globalnews.ca/news/6046589/ignored-and-ignited-affordable-housing/
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/28/housing-crisis-houses-brexit-vote
https://www.curbed.com/2019/5/15/18617763/affordable-housing-policy-rent-real-estate-apartment
https://www.aihw.gov.au/news-media/media-releases/2018/december/waiting-times-for-emergency-department-and-electiv

or are Irelands government powers so far over reaching throughout the world that we havent copped it yet.

Fr_Dougal

Varadkar visited all those countries. Coincidence? I think not.

What do we want? Change!
When do we want it? Change!

In the Canadian link:

Where the parties stand

The Liberal Party is promising to build 100,000 thousand affordable homes over 10 years. It says it would also open up housing and cut back on speculation by taxing vacant residential properties owned by non-Canadians.

The NDP plan would see 500,000 affordable housing units built over a decade. They would also create a rental subsidy to support families.

The Conservative Party platform lays out a plan to help first-time home buyers by extending the maximum amortization period to 30 years.

The Green Party says it would make housing a “legally protected fundamental human right.” It would appoint a federal Minister of Housing and increase the National Housing Co-Investment fund by $750 million for new buildings. It would also provide rent assistance for 125,000 households by booking the Canada Housing Benefit by $750 million.

Looks like SF are going to build more houses and in a shorter space of time.

We will lead the world.

Eric Cartman

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Varadkar visited all those countries. Coincidence? I think not.

What do we want? Change!
When do we want it? Change!

In the Canadian link:



Looks like SF are going to build more houses and in a shorter space of time.

We will lead the world.

ok, but canada still has the same problem, and was being led by a centre left government which apparantly is the solution, why did the same issue occur ?

ygolometsipe

Eric Cartman wrote: »

If the health and housing crisis are completely the fault of FF or FG or both, why are canada, the uk, australia , the US and most other countries having problems with housing and other countries with similar medical system models having the same issue with health ? surely if voting for different politicians could fix this then it wouldnt be happening in other countries ?


https://globalnews.ca/news/6046589/ignored-and-ignited-affordable-housing/
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/28/housing-crisis-houses-brexit-vote
https://www.curbed.com/2019/5/15/18617763/affordable-housing-policy-rent-real-estate-apartment
https://www.aihw.gov.au/news-media/media-releases/2018/december/waiting-times-for-emergency-department-and-electiv

or are Irelands government powers so far over reaching throughout the world that we havent copped it yet.

The all have conservative governments

Eric Cartman

ygolometsipe wrote: »

The all have conservative governments

australia and canada have both been led by liberal governments since the middle of the decade. Are you honestly calling Justin Treaudo a conservative ?

dwmcdos

Neoliberalism.

ygolometsipe

Eric Cartman wrote: »

australia and canada have both been led by liberal governments since the middle of the decade. Are you honestly calling Justin Treaudo a conservative ?

middle of the decade is a stretch. Its currently 2 months into 2020 and he was sworn in at the end of 2015 (first term). That's about 4 full years (after 9 years of conservatives) and to be fair he has done more real things in that time than FFG. But in answer to the question, it was the conservatives that ****ed it all up.



Vacancy tax
Foreign-buyers tax e.t.c.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_28_(British_Columbia)


Australia are lead by a "Liberal" :pac: conservative party. They are 100% conservative.

The Liberal Party of Australia is a major centre-right political party in Australia,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Party_of_Australia




Uk = Tory = Conservative
FFG = Conservative
Republicans = Conservative

Eric Cartman

ygolometsipe wrote: »

middle of the decade is a stretch. Its currently 2 months into 2020 and he was sworn in at the end of 2015 (first term). That's about 4 full years (after 9 years of conservatives) and to be fair he has done more real things in that time than FFG. But in answer to the question, it was the conservatives that ****ed it all up.



Vacancy tax
Foreign-buyers tax e.t.c.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_28_(British_Columbia)


Australia are lead by a "Liberal" :pac: conservative party. They are 100% conservative.

The Liberal Party of Australia is a major centre-right political party in Australia,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Party_of_Australia




Uk = Tory = Conservative
FFG = Conservative
Republicans = Conservative

Right so why does the US have the same housing problem since it was led by the democrats until 2017 ?

why is everywhere having the same issue, would all countries have to reform their political ways, what kind of political system is needed to fix it and does that system have any drawbacks ?

Ronaldinho

As far as the housing crisis goes, there are some common themes shared with other jurisdictions that are experiencing similar growth pains.

Clustering of new development and jobs in certain locations together with urbanisation. Huge one for Dublin.

Also, housing increasingly being seen as an alternative asset amongst the investment community. Partly due to low returns offered by more traditional fixed income investments which in turn is due to recent central bank policy across the major economies.

Then there's also an element of cash (some legit, some not) flowing from more sketchy countries to ones with better rule of law, especially if there's a visa/residency on offer. Huge in the London, Vancouver, Australia, New Zealand.. Little bit of it here too.

Better legislation can ameliorate a lot of these issues.

ygolometsipe

dwmcdos wrote: »

Neoliberalism.

Yep..

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/neoliberalism.asp
What Is Neoliberalism?

Neoliberalism is a policy model—bridging politics, social studies, and economics—that seeks to transfer control of economic factors to the private sector from the public sector. It tends towards free-market capitalism and away from government spending, regulation, and public ownership.




Often identified in the 1980s with the conservative governments of Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan, neoliberalism has more recently been associated with so-called Third Way politics, which seeks a middle ground between the ideologies of the left and right.

James Brown

Eric Cartman wrote: »

If the health and housing crisis are completely the fault of FF or FG or both, why are canada, the uk, australia , the US and most other countries having problems with housing and other countries with similar medical system models having the same issue with health ? surely if voting for different politicians could fix this then it wouldnt be happening in other countries ?


https://globalnews.ca/news/6046589/ignored-and-ignited-affordable-housing/
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/28/housing-crisis-houses-brexit-vote
https://www.curbed.com/2019/5/15/18617763/affordable-housing-policy-rent-real-estate-apartment
https://www.aihw.gov.au/news-media/media-releases/2018/december/waiting-times-for-emergency-department-and-electiv

or are Irelands government powers so far over reaching throughout the world that we havent copped it yet.

Very simple. While there are external factors, same policies, same result.

Idbatterim

I bet for a start, the other countries dont have ridiculous height limitations massively curtailing supply and revenue generated from the extra density etc :rolleyes:

any of those country giving out luxury apartments for virtually free, any of you happen to know?

ygolometsipe

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Right so why does the US have the same housing problem since it was led by the democrats until 2017 ?

why is everywhere having the same issue, would all countries have to reform their political ways, what kind of political system is needed to fix it and does that system have any drawbacks ?

My understanding is that all these governments basically take the attitude that the market / privatization will fix everything.

Example:
Housing

We have no houses. rents go up, its attractive to the market to build houses because they will profit. So "investors build more houses".

Health:
The public service is **** people will pay for private, private generates profit so service will become available.

That's a very simplified view but thats the general consensus. Leave it to the market to fix it.

The USA is a big ship, its very difficult to turn it around. The democrats choose to focus on health as housing is not as big a problem nationally.
Obama did bring in Obama care but it pissed off the republicans so they undid a lot of it. Basically the democrats were trying to put it right but the republicans came along and said "No! wait, the market will fix it".

Valhallapt

Most Northern European don’t have these waiting lists, that is what we should aspire to.

Eric Cartman

Valhallapt wrote: »

Most Northern European don’t have these waiting lists, that is what we should aspire to.

billions of euro worth of oil money is definitely worth aspiring to.

but also https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/consumer/swedes-face-problems-with-health-care-system

https://www.thelocal.se/20190514/revealed-the-state-of-swedens-housing-shortage

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20160517-this-is-one-city-where-youll-never-find-a-home

Tony EH

Eric Cartman wrote: »

australia and canada have both been led by liberal governments since the middle of the decade. Are you honestly calling Justin Treaudo a conservative ?

Neo Liberal.

There's a difference.

Fritzbox

Eric Cartman wrote: »

If the health and housing crisis are completely the fault of FF or FG or both, why are canada, the uk, australia , the US and most other countries having problems with housing and other countries with similar medical system models having the same issue with health ? surely if voting for different politicians could fix this then it wouldnt be happening in other countries ?


https://globalnews.ca/news/6046589/ignored-and-ignited-affordable-housing/
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/28/housing-crisis-houses-brexit-vote
https://www.curbed.com/2019/5/15/18617763/affordable-housing-policy-rent-real-estate-apartment
https://www.aihw.gov.au/news-media/media-releases/2018/december/waiting-times-for-emergency-department-and-electiv

or are Irelands government powers so far over reaching throughout the world that we havent copped it yet.

Because these countries, or parts of these countries are thriving economically, which means that increasing numbers of people want to live in these places, putting pressure on the housing market and infrastructure. This is especially true for the main cities of these areas: San Francisco, Vancouver, Auckland etc.

Auckland has serious housing problems in particular:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/17/new-zealand-housing-crisis-forces-hundreds-to-live-in-garages-tents-and-cars
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/05/bulging-at-the-seams-auckland-a-super-city-struggling-with-its-own-success

And then there's Spain:
https://www.ft.com/content/5a3ada30-ea80-11e9-aefb-a946d2463e4b

According to Fotocasa, an average renter in Madrid paid 51.1 per cent of their salary in rent in 2018, up from 41.4 per cent in 2016. In Catalonia, of which Barcelona is part, it was 49.2 per cent, up from 46.4 per cent.

Eric Cartman

so what you're saying is that no government could wave a magic wand or throw money at the problem and solve it and that its a symptom of economic success that would have to be curtailed to solve this issue ?

jimgoose

Eric Cartman wrote: »

...its a symptom of economic success that would have to be curtailed to solve this issue ?

Well we might yet have the right crew to ruddy-well solve that! :pac:

Dubh Geannain

It's the free markets but rigged in favour of the big players i.e. aided by the respective government policies.

Small personal example - Having sat out the Tiger craze we tried in vain to buy during the "crash". We tried to pick up a bargain house in several so called ghost developments. Any ones I was actually interested in were bundled into larger asset groups and re-sold in bulk to funds. There were others we could have afforded but they were miles away from where we would have liked to have been.

We ended up in several bidding wars are were lucky to secure something reasonable in the end. Michael Noonan and NAMA had no small part to play -

FINANCE Minister Michael Noonan wants house prices to rise further and claims fears of another property bubble in Dublin are exaggerated.

Speaking at the 'Sunday Independent Business Evening ' last night, Mr Noonan also said the Government will use the state property agency NAMA to tackle the housing shortage. "We need to get property prices up another bit," he told the Dublin event.

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/theres-no-housing-bubble-michael-noonan-wants-prices-to-rise-30168455.html

That quote was 2014!

Don't forget the capital gains tax exemption for buy to letters once they held onto the property for more than 7 years i.e. keep the supply off the market. Oh, there was the DIRT refund who's usefulness is suggested in the name. The goal was to try and get money into the demand side to buy up what was left while trying to shrink supply at the same time. All while still imposing ridiculous restrictions and red tape on the supply side.

Fritzbox

Eric Cartman wrote: »

so what you're saying is that no government could wave a magic wand or throw money at the problem and solve it and that its a symptom of economic success that would have to be curtailed to solve this issue ?

Well obviously it's not easy to solve a housing shortage problem - I've provided enough examples which might well prove that. Whose money do you want to throw at the problem?

Dubh Geannain

Eric Cartman wrote: »

so what you're saying is that no government could wave a magic wand or throw money at the problem and solve it and that its a symptom of economic success that would have to be curtailed to solve this issue ?

These Governments continually point to Economic figures as a the metric for success. Due to globalisation a lot can piggy back on an uptick globally. The more open your economy is the better. Voters buy into it as they have more money in their pocket. More money to pay in taxes regardless of how inefficiently it it reallocated.

The drum I was banging with any canvasser discussing the economy was it's not all about the economy stupid.

Eric Cartman

Fritzbox wrote: »

Well obviously it's not easy to solve a housing shortage problem - I've provided enough examples which might well prove that. Whose money do you want to throw at the problem?

I dont want to throw anyones money anywhere, but those in power sure do.

BluePlanet

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I dont want to throw anyones money anywhere, but those in power sure do.

Enlighten us on how you are going to reduce waiting lists and get beds for people on trolley's in hallways, without throwing money at the problem.

ancapailldorcha

Tony EH wrote: »

Neo Liberal.

There's a difference.

Indeed.

There's also the potential issue of complex housing regulations and NIMBYism. Can't blame neoliberalism for all of it in my opinion if elderly councillors are allowed to shut down potential projects out of greed.

Yurt2

You'll note that all those countries are Anglo countries (including ourselves here little bit) who view property rights as inalienable in almost all circumstances, as if Moses came down from Mount Sinai with the deeds for a buy-to-let property in Harolds Cross and said that rent controls are the work of Satan himself.

jimgoose

Yurt! wrote: »

You'll note that all those countries are Anglo countries (including ourselves here little bit) who view property rights as inalienable in almost all circumstances, as if Moses came down from Mount Sinai with the deeds for a buy-to-let property in Harolds Cross and said that rent controls are the work of Satan himself.

By "Anglo" are you perchance referring to Common Law jurisdictions? The right of private property is certainly a fairly major tenet of the Common Law - Magna Carta, et al - but Chapter 28 of the same Magna Carta provides for Eminent Domain, or Compulsory Purchase as it's called here, and the right to private property is also covered to an extent under the European Convention on Human Rights. But you could write books about it, and indeed many have.