CH or LIM bull

Dozer1

Bought this lad today in Ennis, limestone cowboy has a comrade from the same herd I think.
A bit bigger than I needed but we'll give him a chance

Limestone Cowboy

Dozer1 wrote: »

Bought this lad today in Ennis, limestone cowboy has a comrade from the same herd I think.
A bit bigger than I needed but we'll give him a chance

Did he tell you to call me he's by Glen Leon is he?

Dozer1

Yea that's the lad....I needed to get home some time today so didn't mention you

funkey_monkey

Dozer1 wrote: »

Bought this lad today in Ennis, limestone cowboy has a comrade from the same herd I think.
A bit bigger than I needed but we'll give him a chance

Fine shaped animal. All the best with him.

squinn2912

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Fine shaped animal. All the best with him.

You mind saying age/price?

Dozer1

He's May 18 2300 euro was the price. Was bidding on a smaller bull but he went to 2700 which was more than I valued him at.

squinn2912

Dozer1 wrote: »

He's May 18 2300 euro was the price. Was bidding on a smaller bull but he went to 2700 which was more than I valued him at.

What you reckon calving will be like? Just thinking I gave £1950 for a 4 year old lim bull a couple of years ago. For an extra 30-40 you have a young bull

Dozer1

Should be ok once I can stop the old lad stuffing the cows. Figures aren't bad.

Hard Knocks

Dozer1 wrote: »

He's May 18 2300 euro was the price. Was bidding on a smaller bull but he went to 2700 which was more than I valued him at.

Best of luck with him
Was there much difference in money for bulls with and without stars or was price based on quality

patsy_mccabe

Dozer1 wrote: »

Bought this lad today in Ennis, limestone cowboy has a comrade from the same herd I think.
A bit bigger than I needed but we'll give him a chance

I was in Ennis. I remember that fella. Fine big bull. Best of luck with him.
Did you see the young Char bull that sold for €1240?. He was just too young. Thought he was a steal at at price. A lot of plain char bulls there.

Dozer1

Thanks Patsy
some very plain bulls and a few with poor feet,
there was value there in my eyes.
Was surprised how many bulls had really wide front shoulders, in the days of easy calving it would put me off, its not going to be easy get the calves out if your meeting big bone on the front shoulders at calving time.

I didn't stay for long after buying due to the day being so bad but did the limo's sell well?

Dozer1

Prices for stars were a bit better than those without and definitely found it easier get bids with the stars, no big money bulls on offer though so hard to judge.

patsy_mccabe

Dozer1 wrote: »

Thanks Patsy
some very plain bulls and a few with poor feet,
there was value there in my eyes.
Was surprised how many bulls had really wide front shoulders, in the days of easy calving it would put me off, its not going to be easy get the calves out if your meeting big bone on the front shoulders at calving time.

I didn't stay for long after buying due to the day being so bad but did the limo's sell well?

Most of the Limo's went tru unsold. A lot of messing going on too with bids. You know how it is at these sales.

john mayo 10

Thanks for all the replies guys. In relation to purchasing a bull I was over ruled by dad. He just didn't feel comfortable with a bull about the place. So we decided to change AI man ( lots of repeats last year) and see how it goes. Have been restricting the amount of time the calves have access to the cows to help the cows come in heat quicker and it's working. Cow in heat on the slats this morning. Calfed 35 days ago. The Ai man I'm going to use is with Progressive Genetics. Will probably give her Fiston. What's her thoughts on the bulls with Progressive Genetics?

Hard Knocks

john mayo 10 wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies guys. In relation to purchasing a bull I was over ruled by dad. He just didn't feel comfortable with a bull about the place. So we decided to change AI man ( lots of repeats last year) and see how it goes. Have been restricting the amount of time the calves have access to the cows to help the cows come in heat quicker and it's working. Cow in heat on the slats this morning. Calfed 35 days ago. The Ai man I'm going to use is with Progressive Genetics. Will probably give her Fiston. What's her thoughts on the bulls with Progressive Genetics?

Recently went to PG myself too
Had nice calves last year off Fiston, GPD & LZF
Good calf born to CH4251, with LGL & CH4252 to come

Dozer1

F**ker of a bull jumped a wall into the cows last night one was bulling.. he's on 3 legs now back leg completely going from under him.

Limestone Cowboy

Dozer1 wrote: »

F**ker of a bull jumped a wall into the cows last night one was bulling.. he's on 3 legs now back leg completely going from under him.

Oh balls, hopefully it's nothing too serious. Is he putting any weight on it.

Dozer1

Absolutely sickened. He's himself destroyed so he must have got turned upside down. Back leg totally goes when he goes to walk on it. Too wet to let him out. He's even gone very scoury and he was on hay till yesterday. I know there are bigger problems

Albert Johnson

Dozer1 wrote: »

Absolutely sickened. He's himself destroyed so he must have got turned upside down. Back leg totally goes when he goes to walk on it. Too wet to let him out. He's even gone very scoury and he was on hay till yesterday. I know there are bigger problems

The scour could be from the excitement of everything that's happened and he'll hopefully dry up in a day or two. Without wanting to be even more negative are you confident that the leg isn't broke? If he's putting any weight on it then it probably isn't but it's a possibility. Watch and see can he walk on it when left to his own devices, if he carries it fully when walking or if it seems to swing freely then I'm afraid you could be in bigger bother.

Dozer1

Doubt its broken but he's damaged something just above the hoof in the joint I reckon. 2 new bulls both f*cked ah well

funkey_monkey

Can he move enough to get him isolated somewhere away from the cows and onto a straw bed or rubber mat?
What did the vet say?

Don't give up on him yet, but I'm gutted for you after only having bought him.

cacs

I have a big heavy bull. Three weeks on slats and he lame. I put him on a straw bed honestly it’s more of muck bed. This year I prided all the cows. Done them in batches of six ai’d a few bulled a few. I let the bull back into the slats to mop any cows that broke to AI. As soon as that is done he’s back out to the state bed and it’s working. I don’t want kill home he is big thick blond bull with muscle hanging off him and quite as a mouse.

squinn2912

cacs wrote: »

I have a big heavy bull. Three weeks on slats and he lame. I put him on a straw bed honestly it’s more of muck bed. This year I prided all the cows. Done them in batches of six ai’d a few bulled a few. I let the bull back into the slats to mop any cows that broke to AI. As soon as that is done he’s back out to the state bed and it’s working. I don’t want kill home he is big thick blond bull with muscle hanging off him and quite as a mouse.

That sounds like rough treatment on a big bull like that. I’ve heard it said that a bull over 850kgs shouldn’t be bulling cows on slats. That’s most bulls. From your talk this fella is away over a tonne?

cacs

squinn2912 wrote: »

That sounds like rough treatment on a big bull like that. I’ve heard it said that a bull over 850kgs shouldn’t be bulling cows on slats. That’s most bulls. From your talk this fella is away over a tonne?

He’s a tone alright. He is only in there for a few days. All the cows that he got after the prid where bulled in the straw pen with him. It’s easier to predict times. I am only letting him catch the ones the breaks on slats. As soon as that time is up he’s back into his pen. I only have 18 cows so he is on average catching one or two per six on the slats. I know it’s a gamble but it’s do this or kill. I calf in December.

squinn2912

cacs wrote: »

He’s a tone alright. He is only in there for a few days. All the cows that he got after the prid where bulled in the straw pen with him. It’s easier to predict times. I am only letting him catch the ones the breaks on slats. As soon as that time is up he’s back into his pen. I only have 18 cows so he is on average catching one or two per six on the slats. I know it’s a gamble but it’s do this or kill. I calf in December.

I’m not disagreeing with you I’m interested. Why do you calve in dec?

cacs

squinn2912 wrote: »

I’m not disagreeing with you I’m interested. Why do you calve in dec?

I want a five month old calf hitting the grass in April. Feb March calf’s struggle to get the same thrive off the key months of grass April may June and what ever July brings I also want the cow milking when she is at grass Dry her in September. I usually sell stores the following year in may June or September depending on how much grass I have. I see it as getting optimum thrive off grass over two Seasons. I dont have shed space to keep cattle for two winters. calf’s in a creep are easy to manage. I only have a small farm in total a five bay shed. Two pens for weanlings three pens for cows. It’s an open shed and the calf’s go through the barrier to access silage fields this time of year and are very healthy. I don’t want to go to autumn calfers shed won’t take it. To big to go through barriers pen space etc. Calf’s would be indoors all winter. Potential health issues. My goal right or wrong is breed the best cattle I can with best ADG (not charolais work full time) and hopefully house stores in September before second winter 6-8 weak intensive finish and factory them. I have had limx cows, lovely cows lacking milk but the genetics leave a lower than I would like adg. I am switch to sim at the minute I have a mature heavily muscled blond bull. I only bought him last year. He should throw some shape into the sim and with there good adg and milk. That’s the plan in a long winded answer. I know I am daft but it’s what I am trying. I suppose I have a soft spot for Sims

funkey_monkey

Dozer1 wrote: »

Doubt its broken but he's damaged something just above the hoof in the joint I reckon. 2 new bulls both f*cked ah well

Hey Dozer1 - is there any sign of improvement with the bull?

Dozer1

Small bit. Sent a WhatsApp video to the vet reckons it's not broken but severe nerve damage I'll put him out tomorrow and say a prayer about all I can do. He's dried up and is eating

funkey_monkey

Hopefully it will work out.
Good luck.

Dozer1

Cheers there are bigger problems out there a few good weeks weather will do a lot for us all

tanko

cacs wrote: »

I want a five month old calf hitting the grass in April. Feb March calf’s struggle to get the same thrive off the key months of grass April may June and what ever July brings I also want the cow milking when she is at grass Dry her in September. I usually sell stores the following year in may June or September depending on how much grass I have. I see it as getting optimum thrive off grass over two Seasons. I dont have shed space to keep cattle for two winters. calf’s in a creep are easy to manage. I only have a small farm in total a five bay shed. Two pens for weanlings three pens for cows. It’s an open shed and the calf’s go through the barrier to access silage fields this time of year and are very healthy. I don’t want to go to autumn calfers shed won’t take it. To big to go through barriers pen space etc. Calf’s would be indoors all winter. Potential health issues. My goal right or wrong is breed the best cattle I can with best ADG (not charolais work full time) and hopefully house stores in September before second winter 6-8 weak intensive finish and factory them. I have had limx cows, lovely cows lacking milk but the genetics leave a lower than I would like adg. I am switch to sim at the minute I have a mature heavily muscled blond bull. I only bought him last year. He should throw some shape into the sim and with there good adg and milk. That’s the plan in a long winded answer. I know I am daft but it’s what I am trying. I suppose I have a soft spot for Sims

Do you give nuts or meal to the cows after they calve until they get out to grass?

funkey_monkey

Dozer1 wrote: »

Cheers there are bigger problems out there a few good weeks weather will do a lot for us all

There is indeed, but no matter what everyone elses problems are your own problems are capable of filling the same space in your own life.

Hopefully over the next week or two he will improve, so fingers and hooves crossed.

What about the other bull, how is he?

Gudstock

cacs wrote: »

I want a five month old calf hitting the grass in April. Feb March calf’s struggle to get the same thrive off the key months of grass April may June and what ever July brings I also want the cow milking when she is at grass Dry her in September. I usually sell stores the following year in may June or September depending on how much grass I have. I see it as getting optimum thrive off grass over two Seasons. I dont have shed space to keep cattle for two winters. calf’s in a creep are easy to manage. I only have a small farm in total a five bay shed. Two pens for weanlings three pens for cows. It’s an open shed and the calf’s go through the barrier to access silage fields this time of year and are very healthy. I don’t want to go to autumn calfers shed won’t take it. To big to go through barriers pen space etc. Calf’s would be indoors all winter. Potential health issues. My goal right or wrong is breed the best cattle I can with best ADG (not charolais work full time) and hopefully house stores in September before second winter 6-8 weak intensive finish and factory them. I have had limx cows, lovely cows lacking milk but the genetics leave a lower than I would like adg. I am switch to sim at the minute I have a mature heavily muscled blond bull. I only bought him last year. He should throw some shape into the sim and with there good adg and milk. That’s the plan in a long winded answer. I know I am daft but it’s what I am trying. I suppose I have a soft spot for Sims

Soft spot here for the Sims too. First batch of homebred sim heifers calving this year in 10 years. Delighted with them, very quiet and lots of milk. Only AA on most of them but that seems fine too for 24 month old calving to me.

cacs

tanko wrote: »

Do you give nuts or meal to the cows after they calve until they get out to grass?

No just the best silage I can make. The first calf heifers lost a bit of condition this year. But they are cycling with the prids. Will know in a few weeks if they keep. The cows are in perfect condition the calf’s did not take anything off them that you would notice. . I feed powdered minerals. I bolus in November and inject 4ml of copper about a month after they calf. It has worked every other year. Something inside won’t let me feed nuts to suckler cows

cacs

Gudstock wrote: »

Soft spot here for the Sims too. First batch of homebred sim heifers calving this year in 10 years. Delighted with them, very quiet and lots of milk. Only AA on most of them but that seems fine too for 24 month old calving to me.

Yea I have 5 maiden sim heifers coming ready for bulling now I gave one lm2014 there she is 520kg she should be fine. I am thinking of giving the rest that red angus that dovea have lisduff mist. Your right don’t get greedy on the first calf

squinn2912

cacs wrote: »

Yea I have 5 maiden sim heifers coming ready for bulling now I gave one lm2014 there she is 520kg she should be fine. I am thinking of giving the rest that red angus that dovea have lisduff mist. Your right don’t get greedy on the first calf

You boys have it sussed. Angus doesn’t guarantee a small calf though we’d a big one through the side door today and another monster shorthorn heifer same way. Aa sucked there but I’m worried bout the shorthorn she’s blowing a bit

Hard Knocks

squinn2912 wrote: »

You boys have it sussed. Angus doesn’t guarantee a small calf though we’d a big one through the side door today and another monster shorthorn heifer same way. Aa sucked there but I’m worried bout the shorthorn she’s blowing a bit

Stopped the Angus here years ago for the same reason
Would Saler be best bet?

charolais0153

squinn2912 wrote: »

You boys have it sussed. Angus doesn’t guarantee a small calf though we’d a big one through the side door today and another monster shorthorn heifer same way. Aa sucked there but I’m worried bout the shorthorn she’s blowing a bit

I think thats a management problem than a breed, fed too much or heifers too small

cacs

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Stopped the Angus here years ago for the same reason
Would Saler be best bet?

I have hour saler sucks off heifers this year. Very easy calfed short gestation. But the problems only begin when you get them out. They are wired and no shape never ever again

squinn2912

charolais0153 wrote: »

I think thats a management problem than a breed, fed too much or heifers too small

Hmm in one case you’d be right the heifer was small calving, not bulling. Didn’t grow enough from bulling which has stung us this year. Other heifer easily big enough an in appropriate condition, calf still massive.
Point on breed is that none guarantee easy calving

Castlekeeper

squinn2912 wrote: »

Hmm in one case you’d be right the heifer was small calving, not bulling. Didn’t grow enough from bulling which has stung us this year. Other heifer easily big enough an in appropriate condition, calf still massive.
Point on breed is that none guarantee easy calving

You'd deffo want to know your animal alright. The Aubrac is a great combination of calving ease while still retaining shape, would be a good animal offeed the Simmental, and they're quiet as well.

squinn2912

Castlekeeper wrote: »

You'd deffo want to know your animal alright. The Aubrac is a great combination of calving ease while still retaining shape, would be a good animal offeed the Simmental, and they're quiet as well.

Funny there’s very few of them in this area. We dabbled with parthanese for a few years and they’re nice cattle but no power beside a lim. Good, milky mother’s but a bit flighty. Are aubrac alike that

Castlekeeper

squinn2912 wrote: »

Funny there’s very few of them in this area. We dabbled with parthanese for a few years and they’re nice cattle but no power beside a lim. Good, milky mother’s but a bit flighty. Are aubrac alike that

I'm a dairy man so my main experience is with cross breds, but I've aubrac stock bulls.
As the easy calving breeds go, they've a great combination of calving ease and calf quality, actually I've experienced no other breed that can do it. They're not charolais but they kill out really well. The bulls I have are well behaved but not pets, I'm not sure about cows, but there's no spook or badness in any of the breed I've had. Supposed to be a great suckler cow, they breed them to the culard traditionally.

Dozer1

well left out both bulls today along with autumn calvers, the LM has recovered a good bit but he's lost alot of his power doubt he'll work in the short to medium term.

Let the CH off with a lame cow here by the house, after a week in a good bedded shed where he only got up to eat or drink he was much improved still a bad limp but nothing like what it was.
He's bearing weight on the leg but has no real control over it....only problem is now I'll be staring out the window at him for the next few weeks swearing at him

funkey_monkey

What happened the LM bull?

Looks like all might not be lost with them - but how does it leave you for this season?

squinn2912

Castlekeeper wrote: »

I'm a dairy man so my main experience is with cross breds, but I've aubrac stock bulls.
As the easy calving breeds go, they've a great combination of calving ease and calf quality, actually I've experienced no other breed that can do it. They're not charolais but they kill out really well. The bulls I have are well behaved but not pets, I'm not sure about cows, but there's no spook or badness in any of the breed I've had. Supposed to be a great suckler cow, they breed them to the culard traditionally.

By that reckoning they must be brilliant calvers? I was under the impression that they were the same as parthanese but smaller.

Castlekeeper

squinn2912 wrote: »

By that reckoning they must be brilliant calvers? I was under the impression that they were the same as parthanese but smaller.

Nah, they're heavier boned and a more open animal, not as heavy muscled at the back. From my limited knowledge, the PA is a heavy muscled light, boned breed of moderate size?
Now mind, it's purebred cows that'd be calving the culards. Great thrive off forage too in them.

squinn2912

Castlekeeper wrote: »

Nah, they're heavier boned and a more open animal, not as heavy muscled at the back. From my limited knowledge, the PA is a heavy muscled light, boned breed of moderate size?
Now mind, it's purebred cows that'd be calving the culards. Great thrive off forage too in them.

Maybe worth a shot then for some heifers

funkey_monkey

Can someone tell me if stabiliser heifers should be at least F3 to get the best out of the breed?

I thought I had read this somewhere, but I can't find it now.

Castlekeeper

squinn2912 wrote: »

Maybe worth a shot then for some heifers

I'd say so, you'll get quality animals off good mothers, most AI companies have a good one.