Pay a small fee if someone vacates a 3 bed council home.

suicide_circus

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Coukd you imagine throwing some young woman in a house with 2 lads with substance abuse problems. Im all for giving people in social housing the bare minimum but even I can see how this only ends in tears and a massove increase in violent crime, theft and substance abuse.

obviously you dont put head the balls in with a young mother but it must be possible, we are after all in a major crisis as we are told on a daily basis.

AulWan

or

Bowie wrote: »

If they don't meet the required need they should be moved. It's not for the tenant to decide, or shouldn't be. This is bad administration and management, don't bore us all, (not you anyone) with Margret Cash tales or other sh*te.
If you can afford rent on the market, out on your ear. If the kids move out and you've spare rooms, get downsized. Take rent from source, dole/salary.
Easy fixes really.
Hopefully the next government has a pair of balls, (no offence ML).

This makes no sense. People would just give up work and staying on benefits, or work for undeclared cash, rather then lose the council house. You're removing any incentive for them to work, if bringing home anything over minimum wage would result in them being evicted.

Paulzx

L1011 wrote: »

The Iveagh Trust has managed to encourage a respectable number of larger apartments/houses to be returned to the council by offering proper sheltered elderly units; own door, full kitchen etc but a warden on-site and easy access to doctors, laundry services and other things to make it easier to stay living independent.

This is the ideal option for older people. DCC already operate loads of these and have built great little communites with DCC staff also responsible for looking in on residents and being a point of contact.

As mentioned already the Iveagh Trust have plenty of them as well.

Spanish Eyes

There is nowhere for downsizers to go really. That is the problem. And yes I know many full owners whether council or private could go buy an apartment but the problem is, as mentioned above, will they be ok there? At the third or fourth quarter of life, all people want (and I know this from my late mother), is to be within her community and be close to everything as before. Older people buying an apartment are usually in the same community as the young wans, you know, noise and parties and so on which is fine for that cohort. Not so good for the ahem, the more mature.

But my mother was adamant that she wanted to stay in her own home, in a quiet road where she knew everyone and they all looked out for each other. It is a conundrum.

They seem to be able to build rabbit hutches for transients but nothing at all for downsizers in the right place for them.

I do realise that there are constraints on land, planning and so on, but everything these days seems to be fielded towards those with families or singletons who are happy to house share, or take on co living.

The amount of properties that might be freed up would help. But remember, not everyone will move either. Some might given a decent incentive, but sometimes being comfortable in your home with nice neighbours is worth its weight in gold too no matter what is offered.

Might be slightly different story for Council tenants, but they still need to be within their community also. Scratch head here.

nthclare

Yeah let's all look forward to being tossed out of our homes and into a sh11ty one bedroom apartment.
And compensated 5% of the cost of our homes and a free shoe box.

Gone will be peoples dreams of living peacefully and enjoying their back garden and independent living.
For the rest of their time.

Great suggestion OP undermine the elderly and destroy their integrity.

Jebus wept

Sleeper12

10000maniacs wrote:

It was only a disaster because if people get stuff for free all their lives, they are going to be the loudest protesters when suddenly they have to contribute something themselves. Look what happened here with the Water protests. It wasn't the people doing their Monday to Friday 9-5 slog out on the streets protesting and blocking Lady Joan of Burton's car.

I'm in favour of paying for metered water but it's very unfair to suggest that only unemployment people protested. One march in Dublin had over 100,000 attend. Almost half the population refused to pay. FG fecked up the introduction of paying for water. The sorry expensive mess lies at their feet. You can't rewrite history now claiming that unemployed people beat FG into submission. It was people from all walks of life.

yabadabado

L1011 wrote: »

Nobody at all would go for that. Cost of moving would easily eat the lot. You'd need to be looking at 20k+ and a blind eye turned to CAT limits if it was handed down to kids immediately.


The Iveagh Trust has managed to encourage a respectable number of larger apartments/houses to be returned to the council by offering proper sheltered elderly units; own door, full kitchen etc but a warden on-site and easy access to doctors, laundry services and other things to make it easier to stay living independent.

The idea of elderly people moving to a type of elderly community should be something that's seriously looked at.They keep their independence, one/two bedroom apartment ,living close to similar people and the security of someone keeping a regular eye on them and access to services and activities.

I'm sure there are lots of elderly people who would prefer that than being isolated in a home that's too big for their needs and becoming too expensive to maintain.

Move from a basically empty 4 bedroom home to a one bedroom apartment that's easy to maintain but keeping you in the locality should be something that's given serious thought.No one should or could be forced out of their home but have it as an option.


It's a pity there just isnt any of this type of housing stock readily available.

James Brown

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Coukd you imagine throwing some young woman in a house with 2 lads with substance abuse problems. Im all for giving people in social housing the bare minimum but even I can see how this only ends in tears and a massove increase in violent crime, theft and substance abuse.

How would anyone hold down a job with substance abuse problems? You're ignoring or forgetting the tax payer. The low income, (define low by not enough to manage a private rental) needs a hand.

aslanroars

I work in the council involved in houses.many people have offered to downsize .specialy older people and dublin city council .lot of the time cant take their offers.but they also buy houses and for discount .put the owners in senior citizens apartment s.

AulWan

Bowie wrote: »

How would anyone hold down a job with substance abuse problems? You're ignoring or forgetting the tax payer. The low income, (define low by not enough to manage a private rental) needs a hand.

Plenty of high-earning professionals with substantial cocaine and alcohol habits manage to hold down jobs. Including at least one judge I know personally.

Are you seriously that niave?

James Brown

AulWan wrote: »

Plenty of high-earning professionals with substantial cocaine and alcohol habits manage to hold down jobs. Including at least one judge I know personally.

Are you seriously that niave?

Pointing out it's not all junkies.
I know who bank rolls the shootings and beatings in the poorer suburbs thanks.

Ubbquittious

Yurt! wrote: »

A crapload of one bed apartment medium/high rises need to be constructed in Dublin. The amount of people living in houseshares well into their 30s and beyond in the capital is off the charts. While sharing with Mary from Longford, Diego from Brazil and some weird Japanese fella might sound exotic and charming like a sitcom - the novelty wears off when the lad Mary brought home from Dicey's scuttered the shared upstais toilet and you can hear the Japanese lad crying in his room every night.*

*This set of circumstances never happened to me when I used to houseshare, but you get the picture.

Was the Japanese lad training to become a Kamikaze pilot?

Spanish Eyes

How did this thread morph into cocaine and Kamikaze stuff?

Me poor head!

corner of hells

yabadabado wrote: »

The idea of elderly people moving to a type of elderly community should be something that's seriously looked at.They keep their independence, one/two bedroom apartment ,living close to similar people and the security of someone keeping a regular eye on them and access to services and activities.

I'm sure there are lots of elderly people who would prefer that than being isolated in a home that's too big for their needs and becoming too expensive to maintain.

Move from a basically empty 4 bedroom home to a one bedroom apartment that's easy to maintain but keeping you in the locality should be something that's given serious thought.No one should or could be forced out of their home but have it as an option.


It's a pity there just isnt any of this type of housing stock readily available.

That idea is in existence already.
My own in laws sold their house back to DCC and were housed in a one bed bungalow in a senior citizens complex.

10000maniacs

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm in favour of paying for metered water but it's very unfair to suggest that only unemployment people protested. One march in Dublin had over 100,000 attend. Almost half the population refused to pay. FG fecked up the introduction of paying for water. The sorry expensive mess lies at their feet. You can't rewrite history now claiming that unemployed people beat FG into submission. It was people from all walks of life.

The Property tax was of similar scale, but it was introduced without incident. I wonder why that was?
Was it because all the people it would affect were at work and didn't have enough time or energy to go out protesting after their 40 hour slog running to stand still to earn enough money to pay their mortgage?

Ubbquittious

10000maniacs wrote: »

The Property tax was of similar scale, but it was introduced without incident. I wonder why that was?
Was it because all the people it would affect were at work and didn't have enough time or energy to go out protesting after their 40 hour slog running to stand still to earn enough money to pay their mortgage?

There were protests and I attended one. It was at the weekend and i believe quite a few of them were organised at weekends

satguy

nthclare wrote: »

Yeah let's all look forward to being tossed out of our homes and into a sh11ty one bedroom apartment.
And compensated 5% of the cost of our homes and a free shoe box.

Gone will be peoples dreams of living peacefully and enjoying their back garden and independent living.
For the rest of their time.

Great suggestion OP undermine the elderly and destroy their integrity.

Jebus wept

Nobody pushed,, you would need to volunteer.

Long_Wave

There are many oaps in 3 bedroom council houses who's kids flew the nest years ago and the idea of moving them into a one bedroom flat does have merit but it will never happen because oaps are untouchable, imagine all the tears you'd hear from these oaps on the Joe duffy for example.

AulWan

aslanroars wrote: »

I work in the council involved in houses.many people have offered to downsize .specialy older people and dublin city council .lot of the time cant take their offers.but they also buy houses and for discount .put the owners in senior citizens apartment s.

Several two bedroom bungalows in my estate have been bought by the council, refurbished including ramps for wheelchair accessibility and are now allocated as "senior housing".

So this does happen, but they need to massively expand on this programme and build as many if not more 1/2 bed units then 3 bed, if they actually want to incentivise people to downsize.

Probably controversially, I was actually thinking they shouldn't build any more 3 bed units at all. The max they should be obliged to provide is a two bed.

As much as i do support social housing, I do believe there is a responsibility on those on the waiting list not to keep having more and more children.

So if you have two children already (who can share) either don't have any more and accept that you will be living in a small home, with only one bedroom for the children, or if you want a larger family, you need to look at financing a bigger home with more bedrooms for your expanding family yourself - or wait for a transfer to older stock as it becomes available.

Optimalprimerib

satguy wrote: »

Before you all start shouting ...

There are lots of 3 bed council homes, but there are lots of people on the waiting list looking for a 3 bed home.

What if an older couple with an empty nest are offered €5k, and a 1 bed apartment. Would this not free up homes.

Cheap 1 or 2 bed flats / apartments, could be built, with the hope the each apartment would free up a 3 bed council home.

If it is already a council home, it is not a bad idea and if the older couple volunteered to do it

Sleeper12

10000maniacs wrote:

The Property tax was of similar scale, but it was introduced without incident. I wonder why that was? Was it because all the people it would affect were at work and didn't have enough time or energy to go out protesting after their 40 hour slog running to stand still to earn enough money to pay their mortgage?

The "household charge" wasn't paid by a Large part of the population. It was only when the collection of the household charge & then the property tax was handed to revenue authorities that compliance jumped to almost total compliance. FG then lost the run off themselves and charged into setting up Irish water, meters and water charges. Had they any sense they would have introduced a flat 100 per household & collected by revenue. This flat fee could have been increased by 50 or 100 over one or two years. Once we were used to paying for water they could have started with the meters. Once fully up and running the billing & collection could have been handed over to Irish Water. This approach might have taken 5 years or more from start to finish but the end result would be everyone paying for water and irish water or the cost of running our water infrastructure would have been off "Ireland Inc's" books.

In short everything FG wanted to get out of Irish Water could have been achieved by now if they weren't so incompetent in implementing it.

Yurt!

Yurt! wrote: »

but is extremely inequitable and creates more problems down the tracks.

Can you please explain how, to me?


I can see only upsides to the tenant purchase scheme.

Idbatterim

hard working people wondering why the government cant afford tax cuts and they cream off so much of a new build cost in tax etc... I would imagine paying E3000 a month in hap to landlords in the case of some dublin properties, would start to explain it!

Lets use the vulture funds to our advantage. We let them manage the social housing stock and give them a cut of the turnover. All those in social housing, start paying appropriate rents and they actually pay! Let them redevelop and massively increase density of the housing stock. If the property is now underutizilied, it goes to someone else. Watch how the likes of a fund would manage it, rather than the councils! "oh here, have your luxury apartment in dundrum for E50 a week" , "oh you want to buy this house for a pittance, having rented it for a pittance?" okie dokie, sign here_______ X

the sheer wealth transfer from the working poor to facilitate this insane system is a disgrace! Introduced a council tax, to replace LPT. Appropriate rents for social housing (deductions at source , plus a fine, if not paid on time). No sell offs of the property either! Theres another 2.5-3 billion a year, to pay for more affordable housing for workers!

yabadabado

corner of hells wrote: »

That idea is in existence already.
My own in laws sold their house back to DCC and were housed in a one bed bungalow in a senior citizens complex.

I know it is but not always easy done with so little housing stock of that type.
A proper plan in place could see widespread use of it .

banie01

Gatling wrote: »

Shouldn't need to have to pay them anything ,your housed according to your need you might need 3 /4 when they are popping out kids left right and centre ,
Housing needs should be regularly reviewed and if a single person in a 3/4 bed property they should be then transferred to a single bed property as humanly possible ,and free up houses for families in need ,

Agree with this.

Unfortunately the situation with council housing in Ireland has developed into the house allocated often becoming a multi-generational home.
One that is only returned to the council when a larger one is required, rather than downsizing according to need.

The housing stock does need far more active management. While i wouldn't support a bedroom tax, utilising the occupancy rate to balance the demand for multi-bedroom homes.

That drive however needs to be balanced with the effect that such tenancy churn could or would have on actual communities.

Idbatterim

Can you please explain how, to me?


I can see only upsides to the tenant purchase scheme.

right, so we pay for a new council build. 300k, sell it for 150k (because this is the kind of insane bull**** that they offer) Explain the maths to me...

Idbatterim

10000maniacs wrote: »

The Property tax was of similar scale, but it was introduced without incident. I wonder why that was?
Was it because all the people it would affect were at work and didn't have enough time or energy to go out protesting after their 40 hour slog running to stand still to earn enough money to pay their mortgage?

good point, those in their near free social houses, dont pay LPT! LPT is a farce anyway, at the rate it is set at. As for water charges, initially I agreed with them, but in this banana republic, it would have been the usuals paying for it all and half the users, deemed "vulnerable" would have paid nothing, better that it comes from general taxation!

yabadabado

Long_Wave wrote: »

There are many oaps in 3 bedroom council houses who's kids flew the nest years ago and the idea of moving them into a one bedroom flat does have merit but it will never happen because oaps are untouchable, imagine all the tears you'd hear from these oaps on the Joe duffy for example.

It would've be akin to tenant farmers getting ****ed off the land by some absentee landlord.

It would be a voluntary process, for people who want to downsize.

I dont see any real reason to oppose such a system.Council build say 50 apartments of one or 2 bed size and people can apply to take them on the agreement their current home is returned to council stock for families on the waiting list.

Plumbthedepths

10000maniacs wrote: »

The Property tax was of similar scale, but it was introduced without incident. I wonder why that was?
Was it because all the people it would affect were at work and didn't have enough time or energy to go out protesting after their 40 hour slog running to stand still to earn enough money to pay their mortgage?

Not true , the household charge as it was known before it was renamed the LPT was widely protested. Only when collection was given to Revenue did people realise the futility of protesting. Maybe you should ask the geniuses who tried to implement water charges as to why Revenue wasn't tasked with collection. I know the reasons but it should prove a good lesson in the art of research for you and prehaps encourage you not to make flippant and tbh stupid assumptions.

RonanG86

Happens in some places on the continent.

You start on the 5th or 6th floor in a 1 bed as a single person. Meet a nice member of the opposite sex (or same sex) and start a family, end up in a family sized apt on the 3rd or 4th floor and when they leave, eventually end up in a mobility friendly 1 or 2 bed apt on the bottom floor until they carry you out in a box.

Then again, the likes of the Germans and Dutch aren't hung up on a 'forever home' the way we are.

The very politicians that would pass the legislation or approve the SI to alter the scheme of letting priorities would be hopping up and down in front the DoS for Housing whenever the Council tried to "strongarm" poor oul' Mary and Jack, who always paid their rent and never gave their neighbours a day's trouble, out of their house and all the memories, so they could put some single mother with 3 kids (who's Ma and Da weren't even originally from the County!!) in there instead.

Also, dunno about other Councils, but the largest list in my Council is for 2 beds in the county town. Not 3 beds.