Why not have another GE

Edgware

quodec wrote: »

Would it be beyond the bounds of possibility for the three main parties to negotiate a 'grand alliance' of FF/FG/SF? 100+ seats, a secure Dail if agreed portfolios reached and equal kudos/blame for subsequent action on housing, health, Brexit etc. Ok, sounds like a national government but must be worth considering.

"is there anything to be said for saying another Mass"

crisco10

quodec wrote: »

Would it be beyond the bounds of possibility for the three main parties to negotiate a 'grand alliance' of FF/FG/SF? 100+ seats, a secure Dail if agreed portfolios reached and equal kudos/blame for subsequent action on housing, health, Brexit etc. Ok, sounds like a national government but must be worth considering.

But then who will we vote for in the next GE? that will just end up with everyone to blame, and leave no one to vote for.

Wanderer78

crisco10 wrote: »

But then who will we vote for in the next GE? that will just end up with everyone to blame, and leave no one to vote for.

all the three main parties will remain to receive votes in ge's

First Up

Both FF and FG understand that as a small country, Ireland's prosperity is based on an open economy, making us attractive to foreign capital and working smart to tweak the international system to our advantage.

Sinn Fein rejoice in the name "Ourselves Alone", treat foreign capital with suspicion and believe things are done by making speeches and waving magic wands. They cheered the Greeks on as they hurled towards the cliff.

A partnership has to be based on shared values and goals. A coalition between SF and either of the others would be chaos.

Wanderer78

First Up wrote: »

Both FF and FG understand that as a small country, Ireland's prosperity is based on an open economy, making us attractive to foreign capital and working smart to tweak the international system to our advantage.

Sinn Fein rejoice in the name "Ourselves Alone", treat foreign capital with suspicion and believe things are done by making speeches and waving magic wands. They cheered the Greeks on as they hurled towards the cliff.

A partnership has to be based on shared values and goals. A coalition between SF and either of the others would be chaos.

...and everything is squeaky clean with this foreign capital?

First Up

Wanderer78 wrote:

...and everything is squeaky clean with this foreign capital?

As clean as anywhere else and a lot cleaner than some places.

super_furry

Fann Linn wrote: »

You're using Twitter as a reference. Mad Ted.

Deflect! Deflect! Deflect!

The Twitter account of *checks notes* a member of the Sinn Fein are comhairle.

Wanderer78

First Up wrote: »

As clean as anywhere else and a lot cleaner than some places.

come on now, we re obviously a form of tax haven for large corporations, but yes, this is a global problem,and we ll probably be eventually forced to face up to these issues

Idbatterim

First Up wrote: »

Both FF and FG understand that as a small country, Ireland's prosperity is based on an open economy, making us attractive to foreign capital and working smart to tweak the international system to our advantage.

Sinn Fein rejoice in the name "Ourselves Alone", treat foreign capital with suspicion and believe things are done by making speeches and waving magic wands. They cheered the Greeks on as they hurled towards the cliff.

A partnership has to be based on shared values and goals. A coalition between SF and either of the others would be chaos.

they tax income at a FIFTY percent marginal rate, how much do they really value our open, small economy, with a very mobile labour force? :rolleyes:

First Up

Wanderer78 wrote:

come on now, we re obviously a form of tax haven for large corporations, but yes, this is a global problem,and we ll probably be eventually forced to face up to these issues

Along with everyone else. Washing money around to take advantage of international tax systems is what corporations and their accountants do.

They also invest and employ people where they can operate profitable business which is why they are here.

First Up

Idbatterim wrote:

they tax income at a FIFTY percent marginal rate, how much do they really value our open, small economy, with a very mobile labour force?

Well our economy is at full capacity so we are doing something right. Our infrastructure problems are the result of success, not failure.

We could solve the housing problem by returning to a 1930's - 1950's style economy (ourselves alone) and encouraging half a million to emigrate.

Wanderer78

First Up wrote: »

Along with everyone else. Washing money around to take advantage of international tax systems is what corporations and their accountants do.

They also invest and employ people where they can operate profitable business which is why they are here.

its an unsustainable model, it has the potential to cause catastrophic social issues globally, in fact, i believe it already is, it will have to be addressed at some stage, and i suspect that may not happen with the status quo

theres profit, and then theres profit!

SafeSurfer

I would agree that another general election is a viable alternative to government by fudge.

Sinn Fein could win perhaps an additional 11 seats bringing them to 48 seats, mainly at the expense of other left wing parties and independents.
This would make a coalition of the left as distant a prospect as ever. I also think that there would be higher transfer rates among the centre parties, possibly securing many seats lost to left wing candidates by very small margins.
The next election would be a referendum on the future direction of the country.
Left wing populism vs centre pragmatism
with all the advantages and disadvantages of both.

tototoe

First Up wrote: »

Well our economy is at full capacity so we are doing something right. Our infrastructure problems are the result of success, not failure.

I'd put our infrastructure problems down to bad planning, lack of investment, poor control of public spending on projects that do go ahead and gombeen politicians making decisions that suit them rather than public need. And that extends back many years and political parties.

First Up

Wanderer78 wrote:

its an unsustainable model, it has the potential to cause catastrophic social issues globally, in fact, i believe it already is, it will have to be addressed at some stage, and i suspect that may not happen with the status quo

You are welcome to suggest whatever global economic system you think is better.

In the meantime, I'd prefer we have a government that understands and is able to work with the current situation to one that doesn't.

First Up

tototoe wrote:

I'd put our infrastructure problems down to bad planning, lack of investment, poor control of public spending on projects that do go ahead and gombeen politicians making decisions that suit them rather than public need. And that extends back many years and political parties.

All true but rapid growth brought it to a head.

Always Tired

rockatansky wrote: »

I'm thinking the same. 24 hours in and Mary Lou is on damage control.

I'd say there's plenty who voted Sinn Fein who just wanted to give the big 2 a real scare. No one ever thought they would get so close to being in Government. Job done essentially if a new GE is called.

Many will have has time to reflect and will probably move their vote from SF for a more moderate left party.

I'd say you're not far wrong. Everyone saying SF would have a rake more seats if they ran more candidates might be right - but they might have missed that opportunity and a second election wouldn't necessarily be as good or better.

The last time we revoted on something a lot of people seemed to lose their balls and I could see that happening in a 2nd election.

Fann Linn

Always Tired wrote: »

I'd say you're not far wrong. Everyone saying SF would have a rake more seats if they ran more candidates might be right - but they might have missed that opportunity and a second election wouldn't necessarily be as good or better.

The last time we revoted on something a lot of people seemed to lose their balls and I could see that happening in a 2nd election.

So you think less than a week in that people have changed their minds already.

Idbatterim

First Up wrote: »

Well our economy is at full capacity so we are doing something right. Our infrastructure problems are the result of success, not failure.

We could solve the housing problem by returning to a 1930's - 1950's style economy (ourselves alone) and encouraging half a million to emigrate.

our infrastructure problems, are a result of spending an absolute pittance on any infrastructure, that wasnt roads, in the last twently years and two booms

Idbatterim

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I would agree that another general election is a viable alternative to government by fudge.

Sinn Fein could win perhaps an additional 11 seats bringing them to 48 seats, mainly at the expense of other left wing parties and independents.
This would make a coalition of the left as distant a prospect as ever. I also think that there would be higher transfer rates among the centre parties, possibly securing many seats lost to left wing candidates by very small margins.
The next election would be a referendum on the future direction of the country.
Left wing populism vs centre pragmatism
with all the advantages and disadvantages of both.

it depends, if they could coax out more people who would vote SF, who never thought they might actually be the biggest party (and hence didnt vote last time, through dissilusionment etc) if they ran enough candidates, they could eat more into the FFG vote...

Wanderer78

First Up wrote:

You are welcome to suggest whatever global economic system you think is better.

Wouldn't have a clue, but I'd imagine most humans, if not all humans, don't have a clue, but I do like the term 'progressive capatalism', which includes making sure large corporations and institutions pay their fair share in taxes, in order to help redistribute the wealth that is created by their activities. I also think the method of accepting partial payments of tax revenue as stock and shares, then utilising sovereign wealth funds from there, is probably a good start in dealing with this slowly escalating problem.

SafeSurfer

Idbatterim wrote: »

it depends, if they could coax out more people who would vote SF, who never thought they might actually be the biggest party (and hence didnt vote last time, through delusionment etc) if they ran enough candidates, they could eat more into the FFG vote...

It’s a possibility. But look at the demographics of the SF vote. It’s equally possible that they will be content that a message was sent to the other main parties but baulk at the possibility of a Sinn Fein led government. It is a huge gamble for both the politicians and the electorate.

Anything is possible. Before the election I thought anyone who believed Sinn Fein would be the biggest party in the state was deluded but it turns out I was deluded myself.

First Up

Wanderer78 wrote:

Wouldn't have a clue, but I'd imagine most humans, if not all humans, don't have a clue, but I do like the term 'progressive capatalism', which includes making sure large corporations and institutions pay their fair share in taxes, in order to help redistribute the wealth that is created by their activities. I also think the method of accepting partial payments of tax revenue as stock and shares, then utilising sovereign wealth funds from there, is probably a good start in dealing with this slowly escalating problem.

Most humans are not required to but those elected to govern should and it is wiser to be sure they can before finding out for sure.

There is only a wealth distribution problem if wealth has been created first.

Wanderer78

First Up wrote:

Most humans are not required to but those elected to govern should and it is wiser to be sure they can before finding out for sure.

Our economic systems and processes are highly complex, I personally don't think any human truly fully understands them, we have depowered our political institutions so much, very little power and control truly exists within these institutions and systems anymore, as other, more complex entities interact with our political systems, and have far more power and control.

First Up

Wanderer78 wrote:

Our economic systems and processes are highly complex, I personally don't think any human truly fully understands them, we have depowered our political institutions so much, very little power and control truly exists within these institutions and systems anymore, as other, more complex entities interact with our political systems, and have far more power and control.

But some understand them better than others. Wealth is created almost entirely through private enterprise. Systems to change that have failed so far.

The private sector creates wealth; governments distribute it. That's what they both do best

washman3

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Or every four and five seater should do like Tipperary and Kerry and return two independents. Cute hoors everywhere would be just the job.

we could always give the 'Drumcondra Mafia' a shout and ask them to run the country again.
Or those 'lovely honourable people' that frequented the Galway Tent.

washman3

WealthyB wrote: »

I cant take any more sporting parlance, whether its half time on Brexit, Senior Hurling, balls in other people's courts and leaders taking the ball and running with it... and while I'm here can anyone find this plate everyone is supposed to step up to

Don't forget the 'SOFT LANDING' that FF and the Greens, aided by their media cheerleaders, promised more than a decade ago, while saddling the nation with a debt of €220 BILLION.

Wanderer78

First Up wrote:

The private sector creates wealth; governments distribute it. That's what they both do best

So public institutions and systems create little or no wealth via public investments?

SafeSurfer

washman3 wrote: »

we could always give the 'Drumcondra Mafia' a shout and ask them to run the country again.
Or those 'lovely honourable people' that frequented the Galway Tent.

Was the Galway tent any different to the €200 a plate Sinn Fein fundraisers? They are the wealthiest political party on the Island with a war chest of 15 million.

washman3

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Was the Galway tent any different to the €200 a plate Sinn Fein fundraisers? They are the wealthiest political party on the Island with a war chest of 15 million.

Totally different. No comparison at all actually.
And i would argue that while FF and FG may not have a 'war chest' of 15 million they definately 'have the ear' of people that could dwarf this figure.
Quick example, Denis O'Brien with FG.