Why not have another GE

Shefwedfan

facehugger99 wrote: »

SF got 9.5% in the Local Elections a matter of months ago.

To say their vote is fickle and soft is an understatement.

They may never get this high a percentage again.

FF come out and say they will up the dole and the SF vote will move...simple

is_that_so

Sir Oxman wrote: »

The criticism is not to even meet to talk, not to demand one or the other must coalesce with SF.

A well used tactic to have a go at SF ironically 4 years ago.

One can criticise someone for a position but if that position is held out of principle, it has to be respected. Those who vote for FF & FG understand that position.

Sir Oxman

is_that_so wrote: »

One can criticise someone for a position but if that position is held out of principle, it has to be respected. Those who vote for FF & FG understand that position.

I'm afraid the lessons of a mere 4 weeks ago have not been learned.
So be it.

JohnnyFlash

Shefwedfan wrote: »

FF come out and say they will up the dole and the SF vote will move...simple

Which would be a terrible promise. Our welfare bill is outrageous.

woohoo!!!

is_that_so wrote: »

The only trouble for SF is that if a government proved to be as good as say 94-97 they'd drop voters, possibly quite a few. I think the 45 seats suggested in some quarters is about their limit as they can't really make inroads into that oldie vote.

I was thinking about the rainbow government of FG, Labour and Democratic Left. A government that worked despite the right/left divide and with a few ra skeketons in the closet. Which of course tells us that policy differences and d ra as reasons not to go into government don't stack up.

First Up

Wanderer78 wrote: »

what?

I was being sarcastic.

If you think "financialisation" is the problem, the alternative is "de-financialisation" which is what communism involves - i.e. taking the market (supply/demand) out of it.

We operate a mixed economy, which all the evidence shows to be the model that works best. If you have another idea I'll be interested to hear it but if anyone thinks they voted themselves a nice cheap house, I fear they will be disappointed.

um7y1h83ge06nx

First Up wrote: »

If you have another idea I'll be interested to hear it but if anyone thinks they voted themselves a nice cheap house, I fear they will be disappointed.

You know people may actually get that but via a different avenue than they think. If SF did get into government, spook investment, borrow hard and tank the economy it would drop housing demand and hence prices.

Lending would get tighter but by heavy saving people could still be attractive to banks. It's basically what we did in 2015, bought a nice home well under what it would normally be.

However I think many people don't necessarily want cheap houses, they want free ones.

woohoo!!!

Housing and health, they're the two main issues in the next election campaign. Not right left politics, not the IRA, not Brexit. I think there's a ways to go yet b4 we get there but I think it's a mistake to refuse to talk to any party but that could all change in a couple of weeks.

Yurt2

Alondra Damp Publisher wrote: »

However I think many people don't necessarily want cheap houses, they want free ones.

How many is many? 100? 1000? 10'000?

The vast vast majority of people want to pay their way, perhaps they are fed-up with being gouged on the rental market and would like to think that the government could have policies that moderate runway purchase prices.

It's almost like some people in the country are fond of house price inflation.

boetstark

Flying Fox wrote: »

What absolute nonsense. No better than "millennials and their avocado toast." A silly soundbite designed to denegrade people who are struggling and dismiss their genuine concerns.

I'm in my mid thirties and the housing market in this country has been dysfunctional, to say the least, for almost my entire adult life. Yes I want it sorted now, because I'll need a mortgage and I don't have an infinite amount of time to get it. And I'm sick of paying rent and having no security. I'm not asking for a free house, I'm simply asking for fairness. People who work hard shouldn't be struggling to get a secure home.

FF and FG have broken the social contract and that is why the electorate gave them a kicking.

Dear flying fox, l hear what you are saying but you may not like the answer I will give you. Life holds no guarantees, you are entitled to nothing in life. If you are working and you cannot afford a house in the current climate. Sorry that's tough.
Get a better paid job or get a second job.
I was in your situation in 2001 when we moved to Ireland. Nobody intervened to help alter the market prices. I created my own affordability. Sorry if I sound harsh but that is life.

Wanderer78

First Up wrote:

If you think "financialisation" is the problem, the alternative is "de-financialisation" which is what communism involves - i.e. taking the market (supply/demand) out of it.

Life isn't black or white, this is not our reality, again our economic systems are highly complex, they are a perfect example of complex dynamic systems and processes, there's no need to be dramatising all this and saying our only options are market economies or 'communism' ffs. Yes there's plenty of evidence to support market economies are extremely powerful and highly successful, our own is a perfect example of this, but there's equal evidence to support 'inefficiencies' in the markets to supply us with all our needs, two of the most common issues being housing and health care. it's clearly obvious that the market actually isn't truly capable of supplying us with these critical needs. It's also important to realise that the fundamental belief in the markets, ideas such as supply and demand, don't always represent our reality, this being one of the major failings of neoclassical economics

First Up wrote:

We operate a mixed economy, which all the evidence shows to be the model that works best. If you have another idea I'll be interested to hear it but if anyone thinks they voted themselves a nice cheap house, I fear they will be disappointed.

There's plenty of interesting ideas out there that might just help us fill the gaps and failures, or inefficiencies of the market, sadly very few within our political institutions are interested in listening to these ideas, as they are just defaulting to the norm. Yes I do believe we re currently stuck with the idea of extremely expensive homes, and an ever growing amount of people struggling to gain access to them, as we favour ideas such as increasing asset prices, we re stuck in a loop here

Yurt2

boetstark wrote: »

Dear flying fox, l hear what you are saying but you may not like the answer I will give you. Life holds no guarantees, you are entitled to nothing in life. If you are working and you cannot afford a house in the current climate. Sorry that's tough.
Get a better paid job or get a second job.
I was in your situation in 2001 when we moved to Ireland. Nobody intervened to help alter the market prices. I created my own affordability. Sorry if I sound harsh but that is life.

Well that's a pretty useless proposal for housing unaffordability.

Thanks I guess.

#learntocode

boetstark

boetstark wrote: »

Dear flying fox, l hear what you are saying but you may not like the answer I will give you. Life holds no guarantees, you are entitled to nothing in life. If you are working and you cannot afford a house in the current climate. Sorry that's tough.
Get a better paid job or get a second job.
I was in your situation in 2001 when we moved to Ireland. Nobody intervened to help alter the market prices. I created my own affordability. Sorry if I sound harsh but that is life.

It's not just me, it's a generational problem that will come back to bite the country hard in the future. Good luck funding pensions when the government is having to subsidise the private rents of hundreds of thousands of OAPs who paid their way in life but couldn't afford to buy property.

House prices should not be many multiples of the median salary, not in a well functioning society. The 'get a better job' argument doesn't address that at all. You may have been happy to say 'tough ****, that's the market' and accept being gouged, but huge swathes of the electorate have signalled that they've had enough, and about time too.

boetstark

Yurt! wrote: »

Well that's a pretty useless proposal for housing unaffordability.

Thanks I guess.

#learntocode

Well what is the alternative. Government controlled housing market. Sit back and watch how that goes. Developers and builders no longer prepared to operate here. Rental properties shrink in number.
Buy if you can afford rent if you can't, or improve your finances, it's very simple and that is how it is in most developerd countries
Not having a cut but currently Ireland is the most entitled nationality I have come across. And unfortunately I think a lot of that is originating in our universities. Graduates are being churned out with an enhanced value of themselves and an over expectation of what they can get in life. Even Michael Dell made that point a number of years back.

Yurt2

boetstark wrote: »

Well what is the alternative. Government controlled housing market. Sit back and watch how that goes. Developers and builders no longer prepared to operate here. Rental properties shrink in number.
Buy if you can afford rent if you can't, or improve your finances, it's very simple and that is how it is in most developerd countries
Not having a cut but currently Ireland is the most entitled nationality I have come across. And unfortunately I think a lot of that is originating in our universities. Graduates are being churned out with an enhanced value of themselves and an over expectation of what they can get in life. Even Michael Dell made that point a number of years back.

You're an ideologue. And not really worth listening to.

You could have saved yourself some energy and typed 'that's just the way it is' and left it at that.

acequion

boetstark wrote: »

Dear flying fox, l hear what you are saying but you may not like the answer I will give you. Life holds no guarantees, you are entitled to nothing in life. If you are working and you cannot afford a house in the current climate. Sorry that's tough.
Get a better paid job or get a second job.
I was in your situation in 2001 when we moved to Ireland. Nobody intervened to help alter the market prices. I created my own affordability. Sorry if I sound harsh but that is life.

I totally agree with Yurt's reply to this gem of wisdom! Why bother studying hard, going to college where you study harder and pay or have your parents pay through the roof for your fees? Why bother working hard or slogging in your job, being a responsible citizen,a valuable and productive member of workforce, community and country if it's all to be told "tough luck mate" "work harder again from dawn to dusk til you drop and then it won't matter anyway."

What a crazy attitude to have towards people's genuine frustrations and expectations in a first world economy? :rolleyes::rolleyes: Is it any wonder so many of our brightest and best take to the high seas!! And for good!

logseman

boetstark wrote: »

I was in your situation in 2001 when we moved to Ireland. Nobody intervened to help alter the market prices. I created my own affordability. Sorry if I sound harsh but that is life.

except that there were interventions. Since 2001 the average mortgage rate in Ireland has never risen from 6% (see http://www.moneyguideireland.com/history-of-mortgage-rates-in-ireland.html) while it was at 14% a few years before. After the dot com boom the interest rates were depressed by central banks worldwide and have never risen to the levels prior to this century. After 20 years of people buying cheap mortgages with no significant increases in available housing it’s clear that the housing market will now be significantly less advantageous for first-time buyers.

frosty123

But if we have another election the proddy killers will win even more seats...do we really want these anarchists in power??

Yurt2

acequion wrote: »

I totally agree with Yurt's reply to this gem of wisdom! Why bother studying hard, going to college where you study harder and pay or have your parents pay through the roof for your fees? Why bother working hard or slogging in your job, being a responsible citizen,a valuable and productive member of workforce, community and country if it's all to be told "tough luck mate" "work harder again from dawn to dusk til you drop and then it won't matter anyway."

What a crazy attitude to have towards people's genuine frustrations and expectations in a first world economy? :rolleyes::rolleyes: Is it any wonder so many of our brightest and best take to the high seas!! And for good!

A word of warning, we're dealing with an extremely clever and extremely hard working boy here acequion.

You'll never meet some quite as clever and hard working - 100 percent self-made man. He built the nation all by himself wearing nothing but a sackcloth and a pair of old boots his grandpop gave him. Bill Cullen broke down in tears when he heard this man's story.

What's more, he never ever benefitted from any external economic circumstance whatsoever. Not once.

boetstark

Yurt! wrote: »

You're an ideologue. And not really worth listening to.

You could have saved yourself some energy and typed 'that's just the way it is' and left it at that.

Stay in your little island enclave boet because you would never survive in the big world outside of Ireland

Yurt2

frosty123 wrote: »

But if we have another election the proddy killers will win even more seats...do we really want these anarchists in power??

Balanced, measured and mature. I'd give you two polling cards if I could.

Yurt2

boetstark wrote: »

Stay in your little island enclave boet because you would never survive in the big world outside of Ireland

I don't live in Ireland but thanks for the advice again I suppose

acequion

acequion wrote: »

I totally agree with Yurt's reply to this gem of wisdom! Why bother studying hard, going to college where you study harder and pay or have your parents pay through the roof for your fees? Why bother working hard or slogging in your job, being a responsible citizen,a valuable and productive member of workforce, community and country if it's all to be told "tough luck mate" "work harder again from dawn to dusk til you drop and then it won't matter anyway."

What a crazy attitude to have towards people's genuine frustrations and expectations in a first world economy? :rolleyes::rolleyes: Is it any wonder so many of our brightest and best take to the high seas!! And for good!

There’s great satisfaction to be gained in working for what you need or want in life.
There’s an old saying about cutting ones cloth according to ones width. Meaning live within your means or reduce your desires to what you can afford.
By all means, look after those unable to look after themselves and let those unwilling to look after themselves learn how to.

garrettod

Another GE will just produce more cost to the public and a similar result.

Let's instead have a vote on which parties and independents we want to have form the government, from those already elected, and compel them to do it. If they are not up and running within 21 days of the result of that vote, they all get fired and can't stand for electron again. They we have a fresh vote. Under the current situation, we may not have a government in 3 months time, with few politicans having done anything of substance during that period and yet, all will have been paid.

The public have spoken, not those elected need to start earning their paychecks and pronto.

Wanderer78

garrettod wrote:

Let's instead have a vote on which parties and independents we want to have form the government, from those already elected, and compel them to do it. If they are not up and running within 21 days of the result of that vote, they all get fired and can't stand for electron again. They we have a fresh vote.

Yea this will work perfectly

jmayo

Bowie wrote: »

Because the people spoke. It just didn't suit FF/FG who refuse to even talk about forming a government.
I get they might have their own mandate but no FG'er voted for FF the last time and that's what they got for 'stability'. Remember 'stability'? seems 'stability' is only needed if it suits FF/FG. So much for 'stability'.

FFS get a grip, sf got what 25-26% of the vote.
They didn't get some overwhelming majority.
25-26% is not "the people"
But then again sinn fein have always seemed to have an issue with figures.
Just look at any of their manifestos.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If they are people of principle they will put that urge for self preservation to one side, and let the electorate get the Change they really want.

sinn fein voters are coming across all Brexitish all of a sudden.

WealthyB wrote: »

I cant take any more sporting parlance, whether its half time on Brexit, Senior Hurling, balls in other people's courts and leaders taking the ball and running with it... and while I'm here can anyone find this plate everyone is supposed to step up to

Ehh stepping up to the plate is a baseball reference.

Billcarson

Deleted User wrote: »

There’s great satisfaction to be gained in working for what you need or want in life.
There’s an old saying about cutting ones cloth according to ones width. Meaning live within your means or reduce your desires to what you can afford.
By all means, look after those unable to look after themselves and let those unwilling to look
after themselves learn how to.

There are plenty of people working hard but still cant afford a house. Plenty of people bursting their bollox. The cost of living in this country just seems to be getting worse. Wft is it that you people fail to to understand?????

jmayo

woohoo!!! wrote: »

I was thinking about the rainbow government of FG, Labour and Democratic Left. A government that worked despite the right/left divide and with a few ra skeketons in the closet. Which of course tells us that policy differences and d ra as reasons not to go into government don't stack up.

Ehh once again we appear to have give some folks a history lesson around here.
The Democratic Left had links to old Official IRA.

They had come out of the Workers Part which had come out of SF in 1970.
The Workers Party would have had Communist leanings and was part of reason of split.

BTW the Official IRA had been on ceasefire since 1972 and none of the DL had been in jail over bombings, gun running, etc ala modern SF.

Yes De Rossa had serverd time in jail for being involved in old IRA training during the border campaign in mid 50s.
He was involved in split in 1970.

Rabitte and Gilmore were both from West of Ireland, had come through UCG and it's student union before moving onto Workers Party.

And none of the DL were collecting Garda killers from jail, labeling the victims of republican murder gangs as criminals, etc.

shesty

What do people think the Government...any Government ....is going to do for the housing market?

Building more social housing is one aspect of the thing.But the rest of the market....I mean, most Irish people are happy with rising prices (i am not arguing they are right, by the way).Landlords complain of too much regulation and Government interference, renters complain of not enough.Government won't interfere with or direct the banks, and the Central Banks rules are probably one of the very few things keeping the lid on it a bit.

Unless we accept the constantly rising house prices are not really normal, and stop viewing property as a source of income or a guaranteed pension payment, this isn't going to change.We use construction output and rising house prices as some kind of measure that our economy is doing well....surely that's not right? If the Government turned around tomorrow and said they would cap rents and regulate the rental market similar to that in many European countries, there would be uproar.We view it as some sort of right to be able to make money....big money....from property.

Homelessness is definitely a problem, and a certain amount of social housing is needed, but I seriously doubt that building a load of social houses is going to solve the problem for many people.And if you have a country where people earning an average or good wage have to be on a housing list, for the State to provide them with a home, then the problem goes far beyond just who is in power.Developers and builders in this country have far too much sway, and influence too much policy (in their favour), regardless of who is in power.And for some reason we are all happy to let them, which I really don't understand.I think the housing market is a problem of Irish society, rather than a problem of what party is in Government.

boetstark

Yurt! wrote: »

A word of warning, we're dealing with an extremely clever and extremely hard working boy here acequion.

You'll never meet some quite as clever and hard working - 100 percent self-made man. He built the nation all by himself wearing nothing but a sackcloth and a pair of old boots his grandpop gave him. Bill Cullen broke down in tears when he heard this man's story.

What's more, he never ever benefitted from any external economic circumstance whatsoever. Not once.

Wow that was a lot of effort at a post that is neither funny nor sarcastic. Back of the queue when grey matter was being allocated unfortunately