Nonsense about government formation, very simple solution

Long_Wave

It's perfectly simple, FF+FG+ FF/FG genepool "independents" would have a stable majority 5 year government. Martin would be Taoiseach, Varadkar Tánaiste & minister for Finance, McGrath Public expenditure, Covney stays in foreign affairs, Murphy and Harris replaced by new FF ministers. If the people decide in spring 2025 to give SF and the left an overall majority, well that's democracy.

dxhound2005

Long_Wave wrote: »

It's perfectly simple, FF+FG+ FF/FG genepool "independents" would have a stable majority 5 year government. Martin would be Taoiseach, Varadkar Tánaiste & minister for Finance, McGrath Public expenditure, Covney stays in foreign affairs, Murphy and Harris replaced by new FF ministers. If the people decide in spring 2025 to give SF and the left an overall majority, well that's democracy.

But please let us have a bit of fun for the next couple of months, waiting for it to happen.

Jinglejangle69

Long_Wave wrote: »

It's perfectly simple, FF+FG+ FF/FG genepool "independents" would have a stable majority 5 year government. Martin would be Taoiseach, Varadkar Tánaiste & minister for Finance, McGrath Public expenditure, Covney stays in foreign affairs, Murphy and Harris replaced by new FF ministers. If the people decide in spring 2025 to give SF and the left an overall majority, well that's democracy.

Not really the "change" we keep hearing so much about

I think it'd be better if they all became the government of the areas that voted most for them.

So SF would be the government in Louth, Offaly, Sligo, Tipperary and Cork. FF would be North Dublin, Clare, Limerick, etc.*

It would be so much handier for all involved and everyone would get to be Taoiseach, so there'd be no losers, only winners, and all the TDs that didn't get elected would get medals for participating.



*randomly picked places

Loafing Oaf

Long_Wave wrote: »

It's perfectly simple, FF+FG+ FF/FG genepool "independents" would have a stable majority 5 year government. Martin would be Taoiseach, Varadkar Tánaiste & minister for Finance, McGrath Public expenditure, Covney stays in foreign affairs, Murphy and Harris replaced by new FF ministers. If the people decide in spring 2025 to give SF and the left an overall majority, well that's democracy.

Think you may be half right. FF/FG may be well go for a 'belt & braces' approach to coalition building by signing up the Greens but also getting 8-10 of the parish pump merchants on board so the Greens would in theory be unable to bring the government down if they walked out. Not a good look to be negotiating grubby side deals with a dozen little gombeens but it wouldn't be so bad if it's just 'backup'.

dxhound2005

Deleted User wrote: »

I think it'd be better if they all became the government of the areas that voted most for them.

So SF would be the government in Louth, Offaly, Sligo, Tipperary and Cork. FF would be North Dublin, Clare, Limerick, etc.*

It would be so much handier for all involved and everyone would get to be Taoiseach, so there'd be no losers, only winners, and all the TDs that didn't get elected would get medals for participating.



*randomly picked places

That's good. But my idea of two Healy Rae types in ever constituency would bring even more democracy to the locals.

RonanG86

Ah yeah, just kick the problem 5 years down the line rather than deal with the fact that you mishandled the country enough that people voted for the Provos.

That's probably what they'll do though.

Ultimanemo

Long_Wave wrote: »

It's perfectly simple, FF+FG+ FF/FG genepool "independents" would have a stable majority 5 year government. Martin would be Taoiseach, Varadkar Tánaiste & minister for Finance, McGrath Public expenditure, Covney stays in foreign affairs, Murphy and Harris replaced by new FF ministers. If the people decide in spring 2025 to give SF and the left an overall majority, well that's democracy.

I think Martin and Varadkar don't agree who is going to be the Taoiseach

dxhound2005

dxhound2005 wrote: »

That's good. But my idea of two Healy Rae types in ever constituency would bring even more democracy to the locals.

The Healy Rae's would be the wildcard. Give them an electric moped and let them wander the country.


Wherever they end up having to charge the battery overnight becomes 'Rae-ville' and the Rural Ireland Clause kicks in, allowing drink driving, smoking indoors, speeding etc. to become unregulated, until they leave on their Moped to the next town or village with a charger.

freshpopcorn

Do you really want five years of social media and Mary lou saying this is not what the public voted for.

Pawwed Rig

The problem for FF and the Greens is that if they return FG to power they will be annihilated in the next election. The Greens especially should realise that after last time out. Having SF in opposition on their own has lead to the current mess. Another 5 years of it and SF will have consolidated themselves as one of the main parties. Micheal Martin may be the last FF taoiseach.....

dxhound2005

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

The problem for FF and the Greens is that if they return FG to power they will be annihilated in the next election. The Greens especially should realise that after last time out. Having SF in opposition on their own has lead to the current mess. Another 5 years of it and SF will have consolidated themselves as one of the main parties. Micheal Martin may be the last FF taoiseach.....

This post demonstrates like others have done, that no party should go into government. All they get in return is an almighty kick in the behind at the next election.

It must be the modern way. Back when Bertie was running the show, he got in three times in a row.

Quantum Erasure

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Not really the "change" we keep hearing so much about

We didn't vote for change in enough numbers, maybe another general election, SF put up more candidates, it might happen. though i feel if there is another election, SF will lose a good few seats, rather than gain

Arghus

The big fear is that will give SF license to hammer them night, noon and morning from the opposition benches - which I think they'd be more happy to do, it may even be their preferred option, despite their rhetoric - and then FFG can walk hand in hand into electoral suicide in the next GE.

dxhound2005

Arghus wrote: »

The big fear is that will give SF license to hammer them night, noon and morning from the opposition benches - which I think they'd be more happy to do, it may even be their preferred option, despite their rhetoric - and then FFG can walk hand in hand into electoral suicide in the next GE.

And if the new government made major improvements in housing and health, SF would then go off on their crusade for a United Ireland to distract the voters.

Nothing wrong with that for electoral advantage, it's just like governments going to war to keep themselves popular.

jodome

Long_Wave wrote: »

It's perfectly simple, FF+FG+ FF/FG genepool "independents" would have a stable majority 5 year government. ...If the people decide in spring 2025 to give SF and the left an overall majority, well that's democracy.

Think you're dead right. Surely they can find enough "independents" to make it work. It would probably take a lot to get the Greens to trust FF again after the wipeout following their last coalition, but not impossible.

Ultimanemo

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

We didn't vote for change in enough numbers, maybe another general election, SF put up more candidates, it might happen. though i feel if there is another election, SF will lose a good few seats, rather than gain

True because FF and FG underestimated SF and didn't criticize them enough, SF numbers don't add up, they promised a lot but if you take a pen and paper and do the maths you will find their manifesto is unachievable.

Idbatterim

I absolutely love this. Decades of absolute economic mismanagement from ffg. They will be destroyed next election, if it’s ffg again. It’s a win / win !!!

Idbatterim

Ultimanemo wrote: »

True because FF and FG underestimated SF and didn't criticize them enough, SF numbers don't add up, they promised a lot but if you take a pen and paper and do the maths you will find their manifesto is unachievable.

Ffg spend billions on ****e each budget. Better scrap usc up to a limit and lpt , than blow it on public sector pay rises or welfare increases. Because that’s the choice

Charles Babbage

Idbatterim wrote: »

Ffg spend billions on ****e each budget. Better scrap usc up to a limit and lpt , than blow it on public sector pay rises or welfare increases. Because that’s the choice

It is this kind of "comment" that has the country the way it is. The public sector pay needs to reflect the going rate, that is why there are shortages of services. Likewise the people receiving welfare should be assessed to make sure they need it, but if they do they then they should be paid a proper rate.

Feisar

But but SF have a mandate!!!

super_furry

Feisar wrote: »

But but SF have a mandate!!!

Change! Change! Change! Change!

Starting to sound like a lad sitting in front of a bank machine.

willowthewisp

Fact of the matter is , despite all the triumphalism of SF, only 25% of the people want them. They may have gotten the biggest single vote, but not like it’s a majority, beat of a bad lot etc...

Makes most sense that FF & FG join forces with the greens and grab power. Sure doesn’t everyone tell us there is no difference between FF & FG anyway.

StupidLikeAFox

Arghus wrote: »

The big fear is that will give SF license to hammer them night, noon and morning from the opposition benches - which I think they'd be more happy to do, it may even be their preferred option, despite their rhetoric - and then FFG can walk hand in hand into electoral suicide in the next GE.

It will be unusual for Ireland but we might end up with a proper left/right split in the government.

StupidLikeAFox

Also, this is a direct quote from Michael Martin after one of the debates:

Our response is, we will not be entering into a grand coalition. People want change, it's very clear the message we're receiving. People want change in this country they want Fine Gael out of office.

Would be interesting to see the backtracking on that one!

Roger_007

SF do not want to go into government. They will make a big song and dance about doing their best to form a government knowing that there’s no way it can happen.
This has been their strategy all along. They never fielded enough candidates to to go anywhere near putting a left majority together. Their strategy was, and is, to force FF and FG into a coalition.
Everyone knows that the electorate will crucify whoever is in government at the next election. It doesn’t matter what they do in office, elections are now determined by the politics of anecdote. All you need is a few hard luck stories doing the rounds on social media and you’re a dead duck.
The truth is that nobody really wants to be in government, everyone wants to in opposition. I believe that there will be no government formed this time and that there will be another election within six months.

Pawwed Rig

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

We didn't vote for change in enough numbers

77%??

Long_Wave

jodome wrote: »

Surely they can find enough "independents" to make it work.

Absolutely, Denis Naughten, Sean Cannery, Richard O'Donoghue, Mattie McGrath, Marian Harkin, Noel Grealish + 2 Healy Raes and you have a working majority.

Fred Cryton

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Not really the "change" we keep hearing so much about

What change. FF+FG got twice as many votes as SF.



SF are an unholy alliance of provo sympathisers, welfare heads from inner Dublin and now young millennials completely brainwashed by their propaganda machine into thinking they'd get a free gaf.

Idbatterim

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

It will be unusual for Ireland but we might end up with a proper left/right split in the government.

We have a right wing party ?

JP Liz V1

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Also, this is a direct quote from Michael Martin after one of the debates:


Would be interesting to see the backtracking on that one!

A so-called ‘super grand’ coalition made up of Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil, and the Green Party is being proposed in a bid to deny Sinn Féin power.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/super-grand-coalition-mooted-to-deny-sf-981225.html