Why have the greens been forgiven?

Long_Wave

I could understand if Eamon Ryan was gone but he was an awful smug FF lickarse from 07/11, remember he was the minister who thought 3g was the answer to the lack of broadband in rural Ireland and he handed over millions of euro to 3 Ireland to provide crappy 3g "broadband"

Chinasea

Unfounded hate towards the Greens more like.

Anyhow all parties should have a strong green agenda, not the nationalistic Sinn Fein me fein type though.

DID you happen to read that the highest temperature ever recorded in Antarctica was 20 degrees yesterday.

seamus

Because for the most part the Greens worst crime in 2011 was giving Fianna Fáil the benefit of the doubt and letting them try to fix things rather than pulling the plug.

People recognise it was their first time in Government and it was naivety that hurt them the most.

In terms of actual policies implemented, they did quite well. Niche concerns about 3G broadband are just that. Very few people would fully understand the nature of networks and speeds, so when a company CEO and his army of experts gives you an impressive detailed presentation and your advisors give you the thumbs up, then of course you'll go with it. Proper rural internet without having to spend billions on cables in the ground? Seems like a good idea. And it is, if it's delivered.

Harry Palmr

I've decided to give Long Wave a short wave goodbye!

jimgoose

seamus wrote: »

...n terms of actual policies implemented, they did quite well. Niche concerns about 3G broadband are just that. Very few people would fully understand the nature of networks and speeds...

This much is true enough. There was also the whole thing with turbodiesels and CO2 vs. NOx emissions, and the mis-labelling them as the Great Green Hope, but that's kind of complicated with a raft of variables and conflicting requirements and IIRC was more to do with John Gormley originally.

Trizo

Greens implemented quite a few good initiatives while in government so I wouldn’t judge them too harshly and they only had the Environment, Heritage and Local Government & Communications, Energy and Natural Resources briefs.

Biggest annoyance I had with them was Gormley’s Light bulb crusade where he banned traditional lightbulbs in favour of these other ones that actually had a bigger environmental impact as they leaked harmful material once in land fill, something he admitted to not realising. I went out and upgraded all our light fixtures at big expense only for the whole thing to be reversed a year or two later :mad:!

seamus

jimgoose wrote: »

This much is true enough. There was also the whole thing with turbodiesels and CO2 vs. NOx emissions, and the mis-labelling them as the Great Green Hope, but that's kind of complicated with a raft of variables and conflicting requirements and IIRC was more to do with John Gormley originally.

And everyone was pretty much behind that at the time. People were more than happy to switch to their diesels, get their cheap tax and believe they were helping the environment.

Politicians can't be expected to know or even forsee that there would be an industry-wide conspiracy to falsify emissions records, or to know what research would unearth about pollutants.

jimgoose

Trizo wrote: »

...Biggest annoyance I had with them was Gormley’s Light bulb crusade where he banned traditional lightbulbs in favour of these other ones that actually had a bigger environmental impact as they leaked harmful material once in land fill, something he admitted to not realising. I went out and upgraded all our light fixtures at big expense only for the whole thing to be reversed a year or two later :mad:!

You mean those wretched CFL bulbs? I bought a raft of those back in the day, they drove me so nuts I threw the lot out and refitted with LEDs when they got some bit cheap, so all's well that ends well, I suppose. :pac:

jimgoose

seamus wrote: »

And everyone was pretty much behind that at the time. People were more than happy to switch to their diesels, get their cheap tax and believe they were helping the environment.

Politicians can't be expected to know or even forsee that there would be an industry-wide conspiracy to falsify emissions records, or to know what research would unearth about pollutants.

Even many auto-engineers probably didn't foresee the carcinogen problems thrown up by the ever-increasing temperatures and pressures that the drive for fuel efficiency brought, I'd accept.

ozmo

First thing Greens did when they got into office was sign off the new road to run through the Tara countryside landscape when they campaigned against it. Must have been the price they had to pay to get in.

punisher5112

Greens that aren't so green.....

Carbon tax on people that can't afford another option....

Diesel cars so everyone and their granny went out and bought 2.0 ones for the chape tax.....

Nox emissions are killing people.

Greens answer we didn't know....
It was widely known well before 2008 that diesel was dirty and toxic of course every fossil fuel is but more so in diesel....

Yeah they're a great bunch.


I could go on but I don't have time.

JohnnyFlash

Country hadn’t a penny to spend and very tough measures needed to be introduced. So they went into Government. Should be admired.

pure.conya

Chinasea wrote: »

Unfounded hate towards the Greens more like.

Anyhow all parties should have a strong green agenda, not the nationalistic Sinn Fein me fein type though.

DID you happen to read that the highest temperature ever recorded in Antarctica was 20 degrees yesterday.

and the whole world just experienced the warmest January since records began over 100 and something years ago

El_Duderino 09

Chinasea wrote: »

Unfounded hate towards the Greens more like.

Anyhow all parties should have a strong green agenda, not the nationalistic Sinn Fein me fein type though.

DID you happen to read that the highest temperature ever recorded in Antarctica was 20 degrees yesterday.

That was Fahrenheit, surely.

Edit. Just looked it up, it's Celsius. Crikey

CrankyHaus

The Greens have been forgiven because they kept their heads down for several years after leaving government and humbly rebuilt from grassroots support up.

It doesn't hurt that their central cause is becoming increasingly relevant.

They were disastrous in Government though. The issues with diesels were known and Ministers have a greater duty of care to inform themselves on policies they make than the man on the street. Saying "we believed the PR from a vested interest, what else could we do" is akin to saying "we'll believe any vested interest's PR and will set policy based on that". Any politician espousing such a position is not fit for Government.

Eric Cartman

The greens are partly responsible for

- carbon taxes
- water charges
- dublins road diet

Why anyone would vote for them again is beyond me, may aswell have emptied your wallet into the ballot box

Thelonious Monk

I hate this argument. Asking how the greens can be forgiven when FF and FG get voted in every single time after all the nonsense we've had to put up with. The Greens made a mistake on diesel but it wasnt really their fault.

conorhal

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Country hadn’t a penny to spend and very tough measures needed to be introduced. So they went into Government. Should be admired.

For what? They acheived absolutely nothing bar a couple of ministerial pensions for themselves.
Well, not quite nothing, they did bring in the 'bike to work scheme' which gave tax rebates on wildly over-priced bikes. This scheme was 'intended to take cars off the road', but nobody where I work that bought into the scheme cycled to work a single day.

The bike to work scheme was nothing but a scam to toss money at their crusty party mates that own bike shops.


Now that 'we've only 10yrs to save the world!', it seems that their bold and big brained answer is yet another rake of carbon taxes.


Anybody that voted green will get what they deserve from them going into government, unfortunately, so will the rest of us.

Thelonious Monk

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The greens are partly responsible for

- carbon taxes
- water charges
- dublins road diet

Why anyone would vote for them again is beyond me, may aswell have emptied your wallet into the ballot box

What does road diet mean? Dublin is totally congested and hopefully the green presence in the dail helps introduce policies to get people onto other forms of transport.

Eric Cartman

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

What does road diet mean? Dublin is totally congested and hopefully the green presence in the dail helps introduce policies to get people onto other forms of transport.

Its more conjested than it needs to be by design. A road diet uses low speed limits, one way streets, short traffic light schedules etc.. to try and frustrate people out of their cars for commuting, but without giving people an alternative it just leads to more traffic. One of the greatest examples of this is dublins quays and no turning right on oconnell bridge. Moves that purely are designed to have non PSV’s sit in more traffic

Beta Ray Bill

The Greens would sicken your hole!

It's amazing that they get any seats at all given the following facts:

1: Ireland produces 0.1% of all global green houses gases
2: Ireland is the world’s most "food-secure" nation (This means we have a lot of agriculture)
3: On average Ireland produces double the average of CO2 per person when compared to the world average, but given points 1 and 2 this doesn't matter.

Greens got seats in:
Dún Laoghaire (1)
Dublin Rathdown (1)
Dublin Bay South (1)
Dublin Fingal (1)
Wicklow (1)
Dublin South West (1)
Carlow Kilkenny (1)
Dublin West (1)
Dublin South Central (1)
Waterford (1)
Dublin Central (1)
Limerick City (1)

So mostly Dublin.... IE the most expensive place to live Ireland.

A profile of the average Green Voter:
High Earners, above €70,000 P/A
Married (both working)
1 Kid (2 tops)
He drives a high spec 5 Series (Or Similar) No more than 5 years old
She drives a Q7 (Or similar) No more than 5 years old
3 or 4 holidays a year
Drive everywhere
Live in a 150/200Sqm house.
Very fashionable
Very often are Vegan
Blame climate change on Farmers or people who don't live in the City

The Green vote is an excellent gauge of how many d*ckheads there currently are in the country.
IE people who believe in a cause, but have absolutely no idea what that cause is, but love to be seen to Do their bit
It's almost an obnoxious and arrogant vote, to vote Green.

I believe in Green issues: I use public transport for nearly everything, I drive a motorcycle instead of car, I wouldn't even own a car if I didn't have a kid.
I don't waste fuel or energy.
IE I take personal responsibility for stuff I do.
People who vote Green, want someone else to take responsibility for what they do. (IE D*CKHEAD!)

HOLE, SICKENED!

Idbatterim

punisher5112 wrote: »

Greens that aren't so green.....

Carbon tax on people that can't afford another option....

Diesel cars so everyone and their granny went out and bought 2.0 ones for the chape tax.....

Nox emissions are killing people.

Greens answer we didn't know....
It was widely known well before 2008 that diesel was dirty and toxic of course every fossil fuel is but more so in diesel....

Yeah they're a great bunch.


I could go on but I don't have time.

if your point is, they made mistakes. How do you vote for any party?

no.8

Eric Cartman wrote:

Its more conjested than it needs to be by design. A road diet uses low speed limits, one way streets, short traffic light schedules etc.. to try and frustrate people out of their cars for commuting, but without giving people an alternative it just leads to more traffic. One of the greatest examples of this is dublins quays and no turning right on oconnell bridge. Moves that purely are designed to have non PSV’s sit in more traffic

Nonsense

Eric Cartman

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

The Greens would sicken your hole!

It's amazing that they get any seats at all given the following facts:

1: Ireland produces 0.1% of all global green houses gases
2: Ireland is the world’s most "food-secure" nation (This means we have a lot of agriculture)
3: On average Ireland produces double the average of CO2 per person when compared to the world average, but given points 1 and 2 this doesn't matter.

Greens got seats in:
Dún Laoghaire (1)
Dublin Rathdown (1)
Dublin Bay South (1)
Dublin Fingal (1)
Wicklow (1)
Dublin South West (1)
Carlow Kilkenny (1)
Dublin West (1)
Dublin South Central (1)
Waterford (1)
Dublin Central (1)
Limerick City (1)

So mostly Dublin.... IE the most expensive place to live Ireland.

A profile of the average Green Voter:
High Earners, above €70,000 P/A
Married (both working)
1 Kid (2 tops)
He drives a high spec 5 Series (Or Similar) No more than 5 years old
She drives a Q7 (Or similar) No more than 5 years old
3 or 4 holidays a year
Drive everywhere
Live in a 150/200Sqm house.
Very fashionable
Very often are Vegan
Blame climate change on Farmers or people who don't live in the City

The Green vote is an excellent gauge of how many d*ckheads there currently are in the country.
IE people who believe in a cause, but have absolutely no idea what that cause is, but love to be seen to Do their bit

HOLE, SICKENED!

On the cars its more likely a lexus rx450h and the second car is a kajar or some other diesel crossover.

But aside from some wild assumptions, yes the green partys demographic is usually guilty feeling rich people who want to save the planet by screwing over farmers, the poor and rural dwellers.

gormdubhgorm

Long_Wave wrote: »

I could understand if Eamon Ryan was gone but he was an awful smug FF lickarse from 07/11, remember he was the minister who thought 3g was the answer to the lack of broadband in rural Ireland and he handed over millions of euro to 3 Ireland to provide crappy 3g "broadband"

I found an old thread where a former diehard Green was slating them in 2008

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=58056770

I think is is all down to optics, the social media campaign of young Greens, Greta Thunberg etc. Plus there is a lack of a strong 'safe' alternative on the left.

PBP are against carbon taxes on the ordinary worker - they want to target the aviation industry. They are more for the protest vote types - student union political activism etc - but would happily ignore the environment if it meant giving the benefit to the working class.

Labour - the @rse has fallen out of that party and it needs a complete revamp and a refocusing of direction. Most people have given up on them.

SD - are just a labour rebrand because of infighting - new party who the electorate are only getting used to. They are going to take a while to grow

SF - although they won the popular vote and got 37 seats. They come with a too much baggage and contradictions for a lot of people. Also SF are against carbon taxes for the working class -publicly - plus Mary Lou said they do not work! But the SF manifesto is vaguer against "carbon tax increases in the absence of viable alternatives”

Because of this (the urban middle class voter) is willing to chance it with the Greens at least they are well intentioned!

Idbatterim

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

The Greens would sicken your hole!

It's amazing that they get any seats at all given the following facts:

1: Ireland produces 0.1% of all global green houses gases
2: Ireland is the world’s most "food-secure" nation (This means we have a lot of agriculture)
3: On average Ireland produces double the average of CO2 per person when compared to the world average, but given points 1 and 2 this doesn't matter.

Greens got seats in:
Dún Laoghaire (1)
Dublin Rathdown (1)
Dublin Bay South (1)
Dublin Fingal (1)
Wicklow (1)
Dublin South West (1)
Carlow Kilkenny (1)
Dublin West (1)
Dublin South Central (1)
Waterford (1)
Dublin Central (1)
Limerick City (1)

So mostly Dublin.... IE the most expensive place to live Ireland.

A profile of the average Green Voter:
High Earners, above €70,000 P/A
Married (both working)
1 Kid (2 tops)
He drives a high spec 5 Series (Or Similar) No more than 5 years old
She drives a Q7 (Or similar) No more than 5 years old
3 or 4 holidays a year
Drive everywhere
Live in a 150/200Sqm house.
Very fashionable
Very often are Vegan
Blame climate change on Farmers or people who don't live in the City

The Green vote is an excellent gauge of how many d*ckheads there currently are in the country.
IE people who believe in a cause, but have absolutely no idea what that cause is, but love to be seen to Do their bit

HOLE, SICKENED!

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0925/1077992-air-pollution-epa/

laughable! you may not have bad air quality where you are , but local air quality in dublin in many areas in ****E, particularly because of all of the disgusting diesels. and if people had thousands to burn on depreciation, to save a pittance on motor tax, it totally blows the "dont have more money to pay carbon tax lie, out the window... the poor air quality here leads to 1200 roughly premature deaths here, every year. You think voting for a party that might actually build sustainable rail transport, rather than rural motorways, is a bad idea?

Eric Cartman

no.8 wrote: »

Nonsense

Road diet programs do exist, its a legitimate thing. It works in cities when the alternatives are there, dublin is not one of those

seamus

conorhal wrote: »

but nobody where I work that bought into the scheme cycled to work a single day.

"I don't know anyone who used it, therefore nobody used it".

Sums up attitudes to practically everything any government does.

Commuting rates by bike have increased more than 50% since the introduction of the B2W scheme.

no.8

'Doesn't matter'

what a short-sighted, ignorant comment that is. It's up to us to set an example, to utilise renewable energy potential which we have, to not appear like cavemen vs. Other developed nations.
Closer to home, to improve the air and water quality in our nation and reduce our dependency on fossil fuels to lower our bills.

Thelonious Monk

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

A profile of the average Green Voter:
High Earners, above €70,000 P/A
Married (both working)
1 Kid (2 tops)
He drives a high spec 5 Series (Or Similar) No more than 5 years old
She drives a Q7 (Or similar) No more than 5 years old
3 or 4 holidays a year
Drive everywhere
Live in a 150/200Sqm house.
Very fashionable
Very often are Vegan
Blame climate change on Farmers or people who don't live in the City

I'm glad the greens seat gains have annoyed people like you.
I'm not married, no kids, never owned a car, maybe one holiday a year, cycle everywhere, live in a terrace house in a mostly social housing estate, not vegan, my parents have always voted green, from the upper middle class areas of Dorset St and Finglas...
So you haven't a clue. And yes farming is the biggest contributor to pollution in Ireland.
We pollute way more per capita than most countries on the planet, it's a global problem and no one should be given free passes.
I like motorbikes though and think people should be encouraged to use them instead of cars, so we have that in common at least.

jimgoose

seamus wrote: »

"I don't know anyone who used it, therefore nobody used it".

Sums up attitudes to practically everything any government does.

Commuting rates by bike have increased more than 50% since the introduction of the B2W scheme.

You did get Bucket of Shit Syndrome too, though - an awful lot of those bikes went on the road a couple of Sundays after being got and then went permanently into garages. :pac: