Why have the greens been forgiven?

no.8

Beta Ray Bill wrote:

HOLE, SICKENED!

Beta Ray Bill wrote:

The Green vote is an excellent gauge of how many d*ckheads there currently are in the country. IE people who believe in a cause, but have absolutely no idea what that cause is, but love to be seen to Do their bit

You come across as one yourself tbh

Beta Ray Bill

Idbatterim wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0925/1077992-air-pollution-epa/

laughable! you may not have bad air quality where you are , but local air quality in dublin in many areas in ****E, particularly because of all of the disgusting diesels. and if people had thousands to burn on depreciation, to save a pittance on motor tax, it totally blows the "dont have more money to pay carbon tax lie, out the window... the poor air quality here leads to 1200 roughly premature deaths here, every year. You think voting for a party that might actually build sustainable rail transport, rather than rural motorways, is a bad idea?

The world average of air pollution deaths is 0.05%
Irelands average of air pollution deaths is 0.02%

We are less than half the average (But I get what you're saying as someone who lives in Dublin)

We have had successive governments for years going on about light rail and better rail around Dublin.

I fully agree with you in that we need more rail, it's proven to be the fastest, greenest, most effective way to transport people and goods.
But it's not going to happen without Billions of euro worth of investment
The DART inter connector tunnel has been talked about for about 20 years now at this point.

We have major issues with how we build and pay for infrastructure (a certain hospital springs to mind) at a very basic level!
we need to sort those issues out first before we even consider spending money on the rail system

Put bluntly, the greens aren't going to make this happen

Beta Ray Bill

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I'm glad the greens seat gains have annoyed people like you.
I'm not married, no kids, never owned a car, maybe one holiday a year, cycle everywhere, live in a terrace house in a mostly social housing estate, not vegan, my parents have always voted green, from the upper middle class areas of Dorset St and Finglas...

Clearly you're not the average Green Voter and I respect what you say and do. You take responsibility for your own actions by the sounds of it.
That being said the Greens didn't get a seat in Dublin North-West (Finglas)

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So you haven't a clue. And yes farming is the biggest contributor to pollution in Ireland.
We pollute way more per capita than most countries on the planet, it's a global problem and no one should be given free passes.
I like motorbikes though and think people should be encouraged to use them instead of cars, so we have that in common at least.

Per Captia maybe more than most in Europe yes, but it's because we're a farming nation, Food is one of our biggest exports.
If we don't make it someone else will have to make it and CO2 will just be produced there, so it's moving the issue somewhere else.
People have to eat, and that means farming.
I agree with you that it produces a lot of CO2 especially meat and dairy. (They're even mixing Seaweed in with Cows food in a bid to reduce the CO2)

The only sustainable way to reduce is to reduce population, but that's not going to happen

no.8 wrote: »

You come across as one yourself tbh

:rolleyes:

Thelonious Monk

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

People have to eat, and that means farming.
I agree with you that it produces a lot of CO2 especially meat and dairy. (They're even mixing Seaweed in with Cows food in a bid to reduce the CO2)

The only sustainable way to reduce is to reduce population, but that's not going to happen



:rolleyes:

It's very easy to get by without beef and dairy. I don't think the biodiversity of our whole island should be at the mercy of farmers' exports however.
Population reduction wont happen, political suicide, but we could reduce the amount of farmed animals in Ireland and the world, which would greatly help the environment.

Idbatterim

completing the dart expansion, dart ungerground and dublin metro along with the luas lines, would likely facilitate 300,000,000 a year rail trips in the dublin area. I for what its worth, dont see the point in raising carbon taxes, not because it is a bad idea. But when I see the masses of traffic gridlocking dublin and how early it now starts (before 7 am) . surely massively improving public transport is the best way to cut emmisions and every one is a winner... I wouldnt bother going there with the carbon tax, it means they will forver be a very marginal party...

oh also incrase motor tax cost substantially from budget 2021 for diesel and petrol cars, this would apply to new cars only ! Nobody has been misled then!

citysights

I gave them a vote thought their idea of housing near work makes sense, no more long commutes for people, less pollution.They also want more rail which would be great. Think Eamon Ryan has come on a lot but needs to stay in touch with the important stuff people want and the changes they can make within their means. Carbon tax won’t help unless they have very viable alternatives for people.

conorhal

seamus wrote: »

"I don't know anyone who used it, therefore nobody used it".

Sums up attitudes to practically everything any government does.

Commuting rates by bike have increased more than 50% since the introduction of the B2W scheme.

And you attribute that to the bike to work scheme that gave tax on rebates 1500 euro bikes sold by their mates?
Utter nonsense.

Thelonious Monk

conorhal wrote: »

And you attribute that to the bike to work scheme that gave tax on rebates 1500 euro bikes sold by their mates?
Utter nonsense.

Well something has worked because there are so many cyclists nowadays in Dublin compared to when I started cycling to work here in about 2004. Infrastructure for cyclists hasn't improved at all however.

citysights

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well something has worked because there are so many cyclists nowadays in Dublin compared to when I started cycling to work here in about 2004. Infrastructure for cyclists hasn't improved at all however.

Sadly the death of many cyclists due to that poor infrastructure.

dwmcdos

I wouldn't say they've been forgiven, just that there was less to forgive the greens for than Labour, FF etc. In any case they're a minor issue, completely unelectable outside of Dublin really.

daheff

Idbatterim wrote: »

[ a party that might actually build sustainable rail transport,

you think they are going to do that? they haven't historically shown this tendency whilst in position to do so.


more likely to tax more and provide tax breaks for bike schemes and such like.

Greens need to look at what they want to achieve, step back and see the reasons why things are like they are and not how the Greens want it to be. Then fix that problem....just additional taxation on behaviours they don't like isnt the way to go.

Eric Cartman

conorhal wrote: »

And you attribute that to the bike to work scheme that gave tax on rebates 1500 euro bikes sold by their mates?
Utter nonsense.

the bike to work scheme and cycling becoming the new 'in' hobby for the upper middle classes has absolutely contributed to its popularity. The new status symbol is using a 2 grand carbon fibre racing bike to commute and pretending your doing the tour de France from sandymount to the silicone docks.

Thelonious Monk

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the bike to work scheme and cycling becoming the new 'in' hobby for the upper middle classes has absolutely contributed to its popularity. The new status symbol is using a 2 grand carbon fibre racing bike to commute and pretending your doing the tour de France from sandymount to the silicone docks.

No, most people commuting by bike are wearing normal clothes and on commuter bikes like hybrids. People like me!

Eric Cartman

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

No, most people commuting by bike are wearing normal clothes and on commuter bikes like hybrids. People like me!

Im not saying they're not, but while cycling used to be for people who could not afford cars , students, etc.. (those people haven't gone away) , now there is also the addition of a lot more apartment dwellers who do not have access to parking and this upper middle class lycra warrior type, it explains part of the increase.

Ronaldinho

Trizo wrote: »

Biggest annoyance I had with them was Gormley’s Light bulb crusade where he banned traditional lightbulbs in favour of these other ones that actually had a bigger environmental impact as they leaked harmful material once in land fill, something he admitted to not realising. I went out and upgraded all our light fixtures at big expense only for the whole thing to be reversed a year or two later :mad:!

Let that be a lesson to you not to believe everything that politicians say.

careless sherpa

seamus wrote: »

Because for the most part the Greens worst crime in 2011 was giving Fianna Fáil the benefit of the doubt and letting them try to fix things rather than pulling the plug.

People recognise it was their first time in Government and it was naivety that hurt them the most.

In terms of actual policies implemented, they did quite well. Niche concerns about 3G broadband are just that. Very few people would fully understand the nature of networks and speeds, so when a company CEO and his army of experts gives you an impressive detailed presentation and your advisors give you the thumbs up, then of course you'll go with it. Proper rural internet without having to spend billions on cables in the ground? Seems like a good idea. And it is, if it's delivered.

It wasn't a good idea then and it wasn't delivered. Was like the monorail

punisher5112

Idbatterim wrote: »

if your point is, they made mistakes. How do you vote for any party?

That's not a mistake.....

It's pure stupidity.

I have no faith in any of them but don't fall for the rubbish they're all about green and saving the environment as we as a whole won't make the tiniest bit of a difference but I'm all for better air quality and getting rid of dirty polluting vehicles and also fires in homes as we need an alternative and one that everyone can afford and if it's a case they can't afford to change like a car or other fuel source or heat source then they need to be helped and given some form of credit where repayment is at source such as welfare or wages etc.

jmayo

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Country hadn’t a penny to spend and very tough measures needed to be introduced. So they went into Government. Should be admired.

What the flying fook are you on about ?????????

And someone I thought was reasonably politically savvy thanked your post.
Yes you blanch152. :rolleyes:

The Greens went into power with FF on June 14th 2007 after the June 2007 election.

We were still riding the coat tails celtic construction bubble, although houses prices were on the down.

The world stock markets didn't start crashing until Mar 2008.
The country didn't officially enter recession until Sept 2008.

The bank guarantee was 29 Sept 2008.

Granted the greens stayed in with cowen, but then again they launched protests to ban a stag hunt but said nothing as NAMA was unveiled.

And for anyone that thinks they are clued in and know what they are talking about with the environment, they are led by an utter moron that seriously thinks we could reintroduce wolves into Ireland.

Thelonious Monk

jmayo wrote: »

And for anyone that thinks they are clued in and know what they are talking about with the environment, they are led by an utter moron that seriously thinks we could reintroduce wolves into Ireland.

When asked if he would like to see wolves reintroduced to Ireland in his lifetime, Mr Ryan said: ‘Yeah, but first things first, we have to restore our peatlands. We have to build up a native and natural forest.

‘Currently we have a forestry model which is plantations, which is short of wildlife. It is going to take 40 to 50 years, forestry takes time. It is that sort of time frame not in the political time frame that it might happen in’, Eamon Ryan added.

Maybe look at the context in which he said he'd like to see wolves back here. He knows it's not possible without fundamentally changing our landscape, which will never happen. One off housing for all.

Trizo

Ronaldinho wrote: »

Let that be a lesson to you not to believe everything that politicians say.

Eh.... maybe you don’t remember so it was legislation ...only at the last min was it blocked

“Ireland yesterday became the first country in the world to ban the traditional lightbulb.

Householders will be forced to switch to new long-life low-energy bulbs in 12 months' time.

New legislation is being introduced banning the sale of the normal incandescent lightbulb from January, 2009”

Seth Brundle

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The greens are partly responsible for

- carbon taxes
- water charges
- dublins road diet

Why anyone would vote for them again is beyond me, may aswell have emptied your wallet into the ballot box

Carbon taxes and water charges are both positive ways to drive people towards paying for usage & reducing usage.

Dublin's roads are congested and fail miserably by way of providing more space for cars and insufficient space for more efficient methods of travel.
Within Dublin city, the car is the most inefficient method of transport and should not be afforded the amount of space it currently uses.

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

The Greens would sicken your hole!

It's amazing that they get any seats at all given the following facts:

1: Ireland produces 0.1% of all global green houses gases
2: Ireland is the world’s most "food-secure" nation (This means we have a lot of agriculture)
3: On average Ireland produces double the average of CO2 per person when compared to the world average, but given points 1 and 2 this doesn't matter.

Ireland is a wealthy country and we should lead by example. If we can afford to change and don't then what hope have we that poorer countries change?
We are also massive polluters and need to get our own house in order, regardless of others.

Mad_maxx

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Country hadn’t a penny to spend and very tough measures needed to be introduced. So they went into Government. Should be admired.

the Greens entered government about nine months prior to the recession arriving

James Brown

They're seen as well meaning folk but incompetent and a little out there. So they'll get a lot of lower down the list nods.

flutered

each green td became a minister got a nice pension

Fred Cryton

Just about the one and only thing i agree with the Shinners on is the Carbon tax.

Little Ireland, with no steel industry, no chemical industry, no auto manufacturing industry, no mining, no oil and gas industry of significance is not going to make even the remotest dent in the global climate. Taxing hard working people in rural ireland with no alternative to speak of will just lower the standard of living without the slightest impact on climate. Virtue signalling at its worst. I'm hoping for a FF/FG/Independents coalition.

citysights

Bowie wrote: »

They're seen as well meaning folk but incompetent and a little out there. So they'll get a lot of lower down the list nods.

They are definitely well meaning but as you say can be a little out there. Would be good to see them introduce a deposit refund scheme for glass bottles and less plastic and packaging in our domestic waste. Practical and workable things.

tdf7187

Long_Wave wrote: »

I could understand if Eamon Ryan was gone but he was an awful smug FF lickarse from 07/11, remember he was the minister who thought 3g was the answer to the lack of broadband in rural Ireland and he handed over millions of euro to 3 Ireland to provide crappy 3g "broadband"

They got a tiny % of the first preference vote. They benefit from our PR system - which I've no problem with on principle. They haven't, in fact, been forgiven by the vast majority of the population.

Real question is why have FF been forgiven - second largest party on first preference vote terms, will be the largest in the Dail.

no.8

Fred Cryton wrote:

Little Ireland, with no steel industry, no chemical industry, no auto manufacturing industry, no mining, no oil and gas industry of significance is not going to make even the remotest dent in the global climate. Taxing hard working people in rural ireland with no alternative to speak of will just lower the standard of living without the slightest impact on climate. Virtue signalling at its worst. I'm hoping for a FF/FG/Independents coalition.

A lot of what you wrote regarding our industrial capacity is flat out false. Google mining in Ireland for a start.

Fred Cryton

no.8 wrote: »

A lot of what you wrote regarding our industrial capacity is flat out false. Google mining in Ireland for a start.

What's false except for a minor number of mines? Where's our chemical industry (pharma doesn't count), or auto manufacturing?

Jinglejangle69

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Just about the one and only thing i agree with the Shinners on is the Carbon tax.

Little Ireland, with no steel industry, no chemical industry, no auto manufacturing industry, no mining, no oil and gas industry of significance is not going to make even the remotest dent in the global climate. Taxing hard working people in rural ireland with no alternative to speak of will just lower the standard of living without the slightest impact on climate. Virtue signalling at its worst. I'm hoping for a FF/FG/Independents coalition.

??

Matt Carty was saying yesterday climate change is one of the big topics SF want to tackle.

He said its time whoever is in government took it serious.