The Curious Case of Violet-Anne Wynne

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

Not SF policy I'm aware of.

Have you heard of the Catholic Church?

Did they run in the general election?

Stupid comment

Shefwedfan

Shuhada Davitt wrote: »

what about the fact that a lot of people in Ireland have had pretty hard lives, born into absolutely futile situations? people who genuinely can not "work their way to the top"...

your ego and pride makes statements such as "i worked my way to where i am"... good for you - you are where YOU want to be - it's not what others would consider where they want to be in life.

and, you are "poor" to a lot of other people in the world

Everyone can go to school, if they want to....

Nijmegen

Firstly thanks for those reasonably argued points. To take them one by one...

Shuhada Davitt wrote: »

But Irelands wages are extremely high, so it makes sense that we would also be at the top of the OECD table. I think if you are one of these people who ideologically believes that you work harder than others, then you deserve to be taxed hard.

A person earning €100,000 or €200,000 in Ireland is in a comparable situation to a person in a similarly rich country as measured by the OECD. And today that Irish person is already the third most taxed person in the OECD. 52% tax is pretty hard already. Someone earning, say, €200,000 - a fantastic wage that can bear much tax - pays already €90,511 in tax (and €93.6k if they're self employed). The top 1% of income earners already pay 20% of all income taxes in Ireland. That is unsustainable in a downturn and you also eventually price yourself out of the market as an open economy.

Shuhada Davitt wrote: »

of course there are plenty of spongers who wont work or wont leave the benefits system - but that is my point - it's set up in such a way that they dont have to. it's FG and FF policies that have it this way in the first place. Margaret Cash springs to mind.

Yup, but SF are cheerleaders for this and are proposing going into government with TDs like Ms Wynne, who is a perfect example of what they would perpetuate and deepen.

Shuhada Davitt wrote: »

the point i'm making is, that people who are fortunate enough to be on these wages, are usually from fairly wealthy backgrounds to begin with, usually the sort who can afford to go through university, who's parents hadnt been alcoholics, or drug abusers, who had things a bit easier from the get-go.

Ireland has had significant wealth creation across all strata of society. I grew up in the 1980s and apart from economists telling us it's so, we know that Irish people have done incredibly well across all strata. My parents were working class poor - like, 10 kids in a 2 bedroom house poor. So I don't think you can say it's all just rich kids getting on. And in any event, they already pay comparably high taxes.

Shuhada Davitt wrote: »

so i dont buy into the idea that "SF only want to raise taxes on the rich to pay for the spongers on the dole". yeah, naturally some of that tax take will be doled out to these losers (pardon the pun) but most people i know who are in social housing are working, albeit in minimum wage jobs - but this is the best that some people can achieve in life - and for rich people who take for granted their own wealthy upbringing just sounds like a spoilt brat having a tantrum to me. tbh

I would disagree with the premise of this argument for the above reasons, but I would also comment that in trying to make life easier for the spongers the Shinners - and other parties to be fair - simply reduce the amount that can be spent on real cases.

Shuhada Davitt

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Everyone can go to school, if they want to....

that's not what i'm referring to.

some people are lucky, in that they are not born to drug addict parents, alcos', abusive situations, poverty, develop mental health or health issues, get bullied, etc etc etc... the list goes on.

you are merely just lucky, in that you either overcame obstacles or you were lucky to be born into more privileged circumstances than a lot of people who end up in low paid work or on benefits.

you FEEL you worked hard - but others would see YOU as lazy compared to THEIR workload or what they have achieved.

in short - i think it's a kind of spoilt brat attitude to have - especially considering you HAVE achieved so much that instead of having any kindness, you try and stamp on people who dont even touch off the sides of what you have achieved.

fair play to you

limnam

Shuhada Davitt wrote: »

in short - i think it's a kind of spoilt brat attitude to have -

That's why I was so shocked he said he had kids.

Shefwedfan

Shuhada Davitt wrote: »

that's not what i'm referring to.

some people are lucky, in that they are not born to drug addict parents, alcos', abusive situations, poverty, develop mental health or health issues, get bullied, etc etc etc... the list goes on.

you are merely just lucky, in that you either overcame obstacles or you were lucky to be born into more privileged circumstances than a lot of people who end up in low paid work or on benefits.

you FEEL you worked hard - but others would see YOU as lazy compared to THEIR workload or what they have achieved.

in short - i think it's a kind of spoilt brat attitude to have - especially considering you HAVE achieved so much that instead of having any kindness, you try and stamp on people who dont even touch off the sides of what you have achieved.

fair play to you

How am I stamping on anyone?


By you logic anyone that works should be happy to just hand over all their wages to a group of wasters?


I pay my tax, so I am already handing over a huge amount of money per year, why shoudl I hand over anymore when the person getting it never has any intention to do anything

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

Not SF policy I'm aware of.

Have you heard of the Catholic Church?

Don't see the Catholic Church looking for my vote, but if they did, they wouldn't get it either.

Bottom of the barrel whataboutery.

Sinn Fein policy was ignored by Sinn Fein in the case of Paudie McGahon, they preferred to hold a kangaroo court rather than follow their policy. Not only that, but they let his abuser go free to do it again.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/paudie-mcgahons-ira-abuser-raped-boy-in-dublin-31067313.html

It is sickening to read about how Sinn Fein acted within their own ranks.

limnam

FF keeping Sex beast Bill Kenneally out of prison.

Pretty sickening.

limnam

People complaining about whataboutery in a post where they add more whataboutery

Love this thread

Shuhada Davitt

Shefwedfan wrote: »

How am I stamping on anyone?


By you logic anyone that works should be happy to just hand over all their wages to a group of wasters?


I pay my tax, so I am already handing over a huge amount of money per year, why shoudl I hand over anymore when the person getting it never has any intention to do anything

one person getting it? what about the thousands of genuine cases??
do you not have empathy for these people and their dire situations in some cases?

if one has no empathy for genuinely hard-done-by people, then... well... you know...


look, people are different. some people arent into material crap or gloating about what job they have wasted their lives working in to get money.

money for nothing in that case. the amount of people that put their "career" before everything else, including family, are the real ones to watch.

most rich and succesful people are psychopathic or sociopathic who will stop at nothing to get money and success.

From The Telegraph:
"The study of 261 senior professionals in the United States found that 21 per cent had clinically significant levels of psychopathic traits. The rate of psychopathy in the general population is about one in a hundred. ... “For psychopaths, it [corporate success] is a game and they don't mind if they violate morals "

these are the people to be worrying about - not the poor, or hard done by who NEED the hand-outs.

i've already stated that im not referring to the spongers who wont work.
i'm talking about the majority of people on benefits - who CANT do any better than they are doing already.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

Welfare gets raised all the time. People are deemed in need.
I don't see anything about career welfare people or the like.
You really think they want to end it because it's an inconvenience to the truly lazy?
What is the end game here do you think? SF have everyone on the dole in free houses with a few idiots too dumb to stop working propping up the majority? That's sheer fantasy.
We are 5th in the world per capita for most billionaires and have worsening crises in various areas, with an outgoing government that was successful in selling people on it being their neighbour and those worse off at fault causing the societal woes. The homeless were mostly pretending, the hospital trolley crowding was mostly people with a cough not bothered going to the doctor etc. Despicable. We need to bring the scales back in balance for the tax paying worker. I don't think SF are the ideal party by a long stretch but we need to get away from FF/FG.

Do you even realise the cognitive dissonance at the heart of your posts? You keep saying that there is no problem with increasing welfare, no problem with lazy people on the dole, yet you pretend that somehow you want to help the tax paying worker?

People have rightly said that there is nothing wrong with populism, after all being popular doesn't mean it is a bad idea.

On the other hand, there is everything wrong with populist nonsense, where people write and say stuff that they either know (or should know) is nonsense but they only write and say it because it is popular.

blanch152

limnam wrote: »

People complaining about whataboutery in a post where they add more whataboutery

Love this thread

Someone adds something about Sinn Fein in a thread about Sinn Fein and they get accused of whataboutery.

We live in a strange world.

limnam

blanch152 wrote: »

Someone adds something about Sinn Fein in a thread about Sinn Fein and they get accused of whataboutery.

We live in a strange world.

Thought it was about a woman behind on her rent before she was a TD

1641

limnam wrote: »

Thought it was about a woman behind on her rent before she was a TD

Shh - Don't mention the war.

mynamejeff

limnam wrote: »

Thought it was about a woman behind on her rent before she was a TD

I m always disappointed with myself when I respond to a troll again but here goes …



don't you mean a woman who refused to pay her rent ?

jimmycrackcorm

limnam wrote: »

It earned €74 million last year in interest for Goldman Sachs from Irish borrowers in 2017, its accounts show, but it paid no tax as it is structured to make little or no paper profit.

Sure how else would you be able to afford the rent in Kiliney

You're trying to cloud the narrative. If I paid 10k interest in my mortgage to the bank last year, that doesn't mean the bank made 10k profit from me. The mortgage principle comes from somewhere else and has to be paid interest from that amount.

James Brown

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

You're trying to cloud the narrative. If I paid 10k interest in my mortgage to the bank last year, that doesn't mean the bank made 10k profit from me. The mortgage principle comes from somewhere else and has to be paid interest from that amount.

They do get their profit from that 10K. Unless they are AIB for the next 30 years, they may have taxes on their profits.

blanch152

limnam wrote: »

Thought it was about a woman behind on her rent before she was a TD

If we started a thread on every Sinn Fein misdeed, the forum would be clogged with threads and there would be complaints.

limnam

mynamejeff wrote: »

I m always disappointed with myself when I respond to a troll again but here goes …



don't you mean a woman who refused to pay her rent ?

I don't know. At some point there was sporadic payments. So I'm not sure if she was choosing to put food on the table etc over the rent.

If that's the case it's not really a refusal to pay. But I think it's probably unfair to guess or make assumptions without more information.

limnam

blanch152 wrote: »

If we started a thread on every Sinn Fein misdeed, the forum would be clogged with threads and there would be complaints.

I'd say the same could go for any party

blanch152

limnam wrote: »

I'd say the same could go for any party

There are threads on other parties as well for discussing their failures.

blanch152

limnam wrote: »

I don't know. At some point there was sporadic payments. So I'm not sure if she was choosing to put food on the table etc over the rent.

If that's the case it's not really a refusal to pay. But I think it's probably unfair to guess or make assumptions without more information.

I think we have enough information.

limnam

blanch152 wrote: »

There are threads on other parties as well for discussing their failures.

I didn't realise this was the catch all SF one.

It's badly named.

limnam

blanch152 wrote: »

I think we have enough information.

Simple people will see things in a simple way. They don't need much.

For the rest we probably don't have enough.

limnam

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

You're trying to cloud the narrative. If I paid 10k interest in my mortgage to the bank last year, that doesn't mean the bank made 10k profit from me. The mortgage principle comes from somewhere else and has to be paid interest from that amount.

Not trying to cloud anything

Was just pasting from the article...

Boggles

lab man wrote: »

its either of the two because where they were evicted from was tullycrine so the kids were at school there at the time

That still doesn't make any sense unless the future kids were evicted from the school.

Surely you would send all the kids to one school.

leck

limnam wrote: »

I don't know. At some point there was sporadic payments. So I'm not sure if she was choosing to put food on the table etc over the rent.

If that's the case it's not really a refusal to pay. But I think it's probably unfair to guess or make assumptions without more information.

No need to guess OR make assumptions.

From the Irish Times:

Rural Resettlement Ireland (RRI) took a case against Ms Wynne and her partner John Montaine seeking that they respond to a claim it issued for €12,126, which was the sum of four years’ arrears owed up to June 3rd, 2016 on a social house.


RRI was granted a decree for the repossession of the dwelling at Tullycrine in Kilrush by Ennis District Court on July 28th, 2017 with a two month stay. A weekly rent of €63.64 was set under a letting agreement dated December 1st, 2011 and the family remained in the Tullycrine house until December 2017.


A statement prepared by RRI for the court case described the rent payment record on the house as being “catastrophic” from day one.
“By the end of the first year the family had accumulated arrears of €1,763.



By the end of year two, their arrears were €4,106. The last payment we received was €65 on August 2013. I believe this record speaks for itself,” Jim Connolly, the founder of RRI, said in the statement.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-f%C3%A9in-td-willing-to-pay-12-000-rent-arrears-to-charity-1.4175308

Boggles

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I doubt it’s as simple as that as I already mentioned

Come back with a legal statement to say it’s that simple and will take notice, at the moment your basing your argument on a property tax, which has nothing to do with eating/living etc.....

You want me to come back with a legal statement stating that a government can pass laws?

Do you not believe that to be so?

limnam

leck wrote: »

No need to guess OR make assumptions.

From the Irish Times: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-f%C3%A9in-td-willing-to-pay-12-000-rent-arrears-to-charity-1.4175308

This doesn't delve into the circumstances etc

We get the charity didn't get all of their money.

But looks like she will put 12k to a charity.

As I said before if all TD's were happy to right any potential wrongs. We'd be in a much better place.

Zulu

limnam wrote: »

...As I said before if all TD's were happy to right any potential wrongs. We'd be in a much better place.

And if we demanded a higher standard of public representative, for example one with integrity, we'd be even better off again.

( Different in Sweden... )