Corona virus in waterford

Gavlor

faceman wrote: »

You're being harsh. Whats a responsible manner? Following the guidelines? The guidelines said you can go do a pub/restaurant with to a max of 6 people for up to 90 mins (or whatever the limit was). You could do that daily and not be in breach of any guidelines.

It may be a risky move in some circumstances, but its permitted, legal and in some instances encouraged. (Hello tourism grant 2020) I wouldn't call those people idiots. (I wouldn't call them geniuses either)

But that's just social settings around alcohol. Alcohol isn't the root cause of transmission.

Fact of the matter is Ireland has not enforced any measures since lockdown 1. THe messaging from government which feeds much of the decision making by households has been muddy, unclear and in some cases down right dangerous throughout.

You were putting the blame back on irresponsible publicans as opposed to the public. The only way that we can keep this under control is if the public use a tiny bit of cop on. Imagine being stupid enough that you need government intervention to stay at home, was your hands or wear a mask!!

As I said, some people are idiots.

91wx763

Bit off area but same carry on everywhere, got this message last night.

91wx763

Gavlor wrote: »

You were putting the blame back on irresponsible publicans as opposed to the public.

Snipped your post but there's a clear consensus in the last few pages that some pubs have totally taken the p*ss. You can see why they were kept closed for so long and in hindsight should have never reopened under any "murry yah" restrictions. But again they're another lobby to be appeased.

Someone wheel out the Boomtown Rats because we really do live in a banana republic.

tbayers

faceman wrote: »

I don’t think it’s fair completely blame the public. There are other factors. Some publicans and restauranteurs have been taking the piss long before December with lax social distancing on the premises, the time limits, mask wearing etc. With little to no enforcement by the state, it became a free for all.

The government got their messaging wrong in November when they told people to enjoy Christmas but expect a lockdown in January. This only encourages people to make the most of the short lived freedoms.

There’s such a huge emphasis on alcohol in this country that id argue many aren’t even considering that there in an equal risk situation when auntie Mary calls round for tea or Jimmy’s kids from next door come in to play with your own kids.

Where did they say "enjoy xmas"?? That's a very wild statement to make. They definitely said just because people can doesn't mean they should.

Gavlor

91wx763 wrote: »

Snipped your post but there's a clear consensus in the last few pages that some pubs have totally taken the p*ss. You can see why they were kept closed for so long and in hindsight should have never reopened under any "murry yah" restrictions. But again they're another lobby to be appeased.

Someone wheel out the Boomtown Rats because we really do live in a banana republic.

And some people are brainless zombie lemmings!!

zerosugarbuzz

Gavlor wrote: »

And some people are brainless zombie lemmings!!

I agree. Some people literally believe anything and critique anyone else who is capable of analysis of the information presented to them. These same people also seem incapable of just staying inside, getting their groceries delivered and minding their own business.

tbayers

faceman wrote: »

You're being harsh. Whats a responsible manner? Following the guidelines? The guidelines said you can go do a pub/restaurant with to a max of 6 people for up to 90 mins (or whatever the limit was). You could do that daily and not be in breach of any guidelines.

It may be a risky move in some circumstances, but its permitted, legal and in some instances encouraged. (Hello tourism grant 2020) I wouldn't call those people idiots. (I wouldn't call them geniuses either)

But that's just social settings around alcohol. Alcohol isn't the root cause of transmission.

Fact of the matter is Ireland has not enforced any measures since lockdown 1. THe messaging from government which feeds much of the decision making by households has been muddy, unclear and in some cases down right dangerous throughout.

Drink driving isn't enforced, so you are saying that people drink drving and killing people is the governments fault?

And you are saying goin out 3 respective nights and sitting with different people every night is the governments fault? I know a person who is isolating because a "friend" was waiting for a test result and went out for a few drinks. Guess what, test came back positive. Several families all isolating and lot of friends also got positive results several days after. If that one act didn't occur then potentially we would have several less cases? God knows how many people have the virus as a direct result of that person's foolish actions. When we say the selfishness of others, we are not saying everyone that has the virus. All it take is a few to destroy the community. See funeral in Ramsgrange and event in Tramore, both super spreader events that could easily have been avoided

Harry Palmr

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

While fully complying with the current restrictions. The numbers can be 10,000 a day of cases once the death rate is extremely low. There is no need to have the older ones in the country paralysed with fear.!Why is there no mention of all these people who have caught the virus and recovered having at least some immunity?

Death rate is low due to leant techniques using various medicines over the last 9 months and because those most likely to fall ill/die have been the most sensible.

However people are still falling ill and every Covid case in hospital takes up resources while those in ICU are intensive to look after. We have a finite capacity to treat while still handling heart attacks, car crash victims etc.

Immunity is too low, something the "herd immunity" crowd have never acknowledged. No good having 10-20% immunity rate for an unknown period.

faceman

tbayers wrote: »

Where did they say "enjoy xmas"?? That's a very wild statement to make. They definitely said just because people can doesn't mean they should.

Here's MM speech.
https://www.gov.ie/en/speech/4f3c0-address-by-an-taoiseach-micheal-martin-td-on-ireland-placed-on-level-3-of-the-plan-for-living-with-covid-19-with-special-measures-for-a-safe-christmas/

Also we had plenty of this type of talk during lockdown 2.

https://www.irishpost.com/news/ireland-has-2-weeks-to-improve-deteriorating-covid-19-situation-in-order-to-save-christmas-197927

tbayers wrote: »

Drink driving isn't enforced, so you are saying that people drink drving and killing people is the governments fault?

And you are saying goin out 3 respective nights and sitting with different people every night is the governments fault? I know a person who is isolating because a "friend" was waiting for a test result and went out for a few drinks. Guess what, test came back positive. Several families all isolating and lot of friends also got positive results several days after. If that one act didn't occur then potentially we would have several less cases? God knows how many people have the virus as a direct result of that person's foolish actions. When we say the selfishness of others, we are not saying everyone that has the virus. All it take is a few to destroy the community. See funeral in Ramsgrange and event in Tramore, both super spreader events that could easily have been avoided

Hang on for a minute. I haven't suggested or condoned that people should be partying or socialising. I'm merely trying to point out the psychology behind it.

Your example of drink driving is a good one to illustrate my point. We know from decades of research that shows that the best deterrent is strict rules, enforcement and risk of being caught.

Think back to when Ireland's blood alcohol limit was equivalent to 2 pints. How many people who were driving would have the 2 pints and then drive? Now most won't, and why is that? Personal responsibility or fear of the law?

Im not trying to diminish personal responsibility. We all have our part to play. However, top of the food chain is the government who makes the rules and laws, and have teams of advisors and access to international resources to best determine policy around what should be rules and what should be guidelines. Their current strategy has not worked. We should have been enforcing this back at level 2 and 3.

Rustyman101

most factorys back tomorrow, that should be interesting!

Harry Palmr

Make sure you listen to Deise today tomorrow morning. Should be interesting to hear who dissembles re vaccine rollout.

faceman

faceman wrote: »

You're being harsh. Whats a responsible manner? Following the guidelines? The guidelines said you can go do a pub/restaurant with to a max of 6 people for up to 90 mins (or whatever the limit was). You could do that daily and not be in breach of any guidelines.
.

You are right.

The argument that it is personal responsibility to go beyond the guidelines laid down by the State is absurd. We might as well have no guidelines and hope for the best. Level 0, and if you get the virus it's your own fault. Keep all schools and offices open, construction too, have no flight restrictions, open the pubs. But if you get it, its your fault.

Government is to blame here. For many reasons. It lowered the levels too soon, it didn't get its modelling correct, it doesn't even police the people breaking the law, or guidelines ( I am not sure there is even a law).

My sister was thinking of calling in a party next to her on the 31st which she said had 10 people, but she realised that that was pointless. Has there been any significant cases of fines, or jails, for breaking these rules?

Government has to create rules and enforce rules. I haven't seen a policeman since the new lockdown, and during April/May they were outside my house all the time as I am on the route to a scenic area in Dublin.

tbayers

tbayers wrote: »

Drink driving isn't enforced, so you are saying that people drink drving and killing people is the governments fault?

It is enforced. By your logic the government would not be to blame if it removed laws on drink driving and didn't have any prosecutions but it was up to people to not drink drive. That is not governing.

OhToBeByTheSea

Personal responsibility

It's such a straightforward concept. You take responsibility for your own actions and that's that. Just because you get the opportunity to break the rules, doesn't mean you should.

If the government had brought in strict laws and, the Gardaí and the army had enforced strict laws, like in other countries, people would be complaining about that too, saying it's an infringement of their civil liberties blahblahblah.

Wanderer78

OhToBeByTheSea wrote: »

Personal responsibility

It's such a straightforward concept. You take responsibility for your own actions and that's that. Just because you get the opportunity to break the rules, doesn't mean you should.

If the government had brought in strict laws and, the Gardaí and the army had enforced strict laws, like in other countries, people would be complaining about that too, saying it's an infringement of their civil liberties blahblahblah.

breaking rules and the law can be fun though!

spookwoman

118 in waterford today

Wanderer2010

spookwoman wrote: »

118 in waterford today

Jesus thats high. To be expected given the recent antics of certain pubs but still very worrying.

OhToBeByTheSea

They're still working through the backlog so, those 118 cases are probably spread across the past week or so but, if you add them to the numbers that have been reported for us over the past week or so, we're definitely in a worrying position.

Wanderer2010

Ronan Glynn remaining very level headed on the news, refusing to speculate about how bad things may get, which is smart as that doesnt help anything or indeed detract from the massive anxiety people are feeling. With any luck, this will be the last lockdown this severe and if the numbers come down around February and March and the vaccine starts to be implemented, that may signal the start of the end of this pandemic here. But thats just a thought at this stage, who knows what will happen? This thing will not go down without a huge fight.

jimbojazz

The only realistic endgame here is the successful vaccination rollout and to be honest I don’t have much confidence in that being rolled in big enough numbers anytime soon, so we could be looking at restrictions for the bulk of this year, hope I’m wrong and I’d love someone on here to offer reassurance that it will be sooner

spookwoman

here is the numbers for the week.

Wanderer2010

jimbojazz wrote: »

The only realistic endgame here is the successful vaccination rollout and to be honest I don’t have much confidence in that being rolled in big enough numbers anytime soon, so we could be looking at restrictions for the bulk of this year, hope I’m wrong and I’d love someone on here to offer reassurance that it will be sooner

I dont think that reassurance is possible. Even NPHET are unsure which way this will pan out. Obviously having some kind of vaccine, despite the unknowns of length of protection and the logistics of application, makes the future somewhat brighter but the path between this frightening surge and a time when face masks arent needed and crowds can gather in a somewhat normal world, is in total darkness, with unknown twists and turns.

faceman

OhToBeByTheSea wrote: »

Personal responsibility

It's such a straightforward concept. You take responsibility for your own actions and that's that. Just because you get the opportunity to break the rules, doesn't mean you should.

If the government had brought in strict laws and, the Gardaí and the army had enforced strict laws, like in other countries, people would be complaining about that too, saying it's an infringement of their civil liberties blahblahblah.

In theory maybe, in practice not so much the world over. You might find these journals of interest.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7665453/

https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/17/10/3387

marlin vs

I believe there will be a lot from the top of the town within the next week as there are a few already from another establishment.

Aquos76

marlin vs wrote: »

I believe there will be a lot from the top of the town within the next week as there are a few already from another establishment.

More rumours and hearsay then...

marlin vs

No.

Captain Red Beard

marlin vs wrote: »

I believe there will be a lot from the top of the town within the next week as there are a few already from another establishment.

Heard someone mention that earlier. A few cases linked to Doyle's, and all those cases have led to more. Rampant in some areas now.

marlin vs

Didn't hear anything about Doyles so that actually makes it worse.

Wanderer2010

Thought Doyles was closed down? Lock in was it?

Flow Motion

Seems like a lot of folks decided to enjoy a normal Christmas so. It's a heavy price to pay for a few weeks of socialising. Should the Government been a bit braver and been a bit stricter? Were they just trying to please everyone? It was kinda obvious that people were gonna enjoy the Christmas season after the year we've had. Now we are stuck in the worse case scenario. Huge numbers. Hospitals filling up quickly. And to think that @ beginning of December we had the 2nd lowest incidence rate in Europe. Now we are back to the hysteria of last March/April but with even bigger case numbers. It is gonna be work, grocery shopping and lock ourselves away till the clocks go forward. Maybe squeeze in a walk/cycle within the 5km radius. Hopefully it stabilises a little by the end of the week. We couldn't hit 5 figures could we?