Corona virus in waterford

reni10 · 21-09-2020 9:35pm

smellyoldboot wrote: »

For one thing, their air circulation systems are exactly the opposite of what you want to prevent airborne disease spread. The entire factory floor is essentially a giant fridge and in order to maintain temperatures at slower cost, rather than ventilate and circulating fresh air, the same air is re-circulated almost constantly.

And given convection cooling cycles, this will eventually tend to pool down to working level. A perfect storm for CoVid spread.

If that is true then why are these factories not closed and forced to use a different system or be put out of business?

I am sick now of industries like this getting away with endangering everyone in this country and something has to be done!

OhToBeByTheSea · 22-09-2020 9:28am

tonc76 wrote: »

As with my post above is this just hearsay or can you back up your statement?

I know quite a few people who work in Dawn Meats (and have a few friends who used to work in Clover Meats). They're not exactly on big money, rent is expensive, as is transport so many live, work and commute together. I don't have stats to give you, I can only tell you what I know.

tbayers · 22-09-2020 9:35am

It's not that meat factories are unsafe, it's the fact social distancing is very hard to maintain without changing the line dramatically.

Also a lot of workers in meat plants down this direction anyway are foreign and English would be far from their first language so communications outside thr plant are probably falling on deaf ears. A lot of them commute together and share living together in cramped conditions (of their own choosing may I add). They are relatively happy with what they get, otherwise they wouldn't be here. All of the above leads to a perfect breeding ground for the virus and once it's gets in to these places/environments it's very hard to stop it.

Wanderer78 · 22-09-2020 9:37am

tbayers wrote: »

It's not that meat factories are unsafe, it's the fact social distancing is very hard to maintain without changing the line dramatically.

Also a lot of workers in meat plants down this direction anyway are foreign and English would be far from their first language so communications outside thr plant are probably falling on deaf ears. A lot of them commute together and share living together in cramped conditions (of their own choosing may I add). They are relatively happy with what they get, otherwise they wouldn't be here. All of the above leads to a perfect breeding ground for the virus and once it's gets in to these places/environments it's very hard to stop it.

this isnt exactly 100% true, our housing and accommodation issues are extremely complex

hardybuck · 22-09-2020 9:40am

Anyone with experience of meat factories would know that the employment practices are less than ideal.

Guys don't get access to sick leave in many cases, and because they're invariably poor immigrants, they're afraid to show any signs of sickness because they'll be sent home without pay.

Apparently the plants aren't managing break times etc. in the canteen well and herd lads in for breaks together in a manner which doesn't provide for social distancing.

If plants had a bit more respect for the welfare of their staff they'd have better working conditions and we'd see less outbreaks. I'd happily pay a bit more for my steak if that's what's required.

Wanderer78 · 22-09-2020 9:42am

hardybuck wrote: »

Anyone with experience of meat factories would know that the employment practices are less than ideal.

Guys don't get access to sick leave in many cases, and because they're invariably poor immigrants, they're afraid to show any signs of sickness because they'll be sent home without pay.

Apparently the plants aren't managing break times etc. in the canteen well and herd lads in for breaks together in a manner which doesn't provide for social distancing.

If plants had a bit more respect for the welfare of their staff they'd have better working conditions and we'd see less outbreaks. I'd happily pay a bit more for my steak if that's what's required.

theres a good chance it wouldnt go to the workers though

tbayers · 22-09-2020 9:43am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

this isnt exactly 100% true, our housing and accommodation issues are extremely complex

So you are saying if they had a choice to pay a few hundred more for more space or pay the same they would choose the former?? It isn't that complex. If this was normal times no one would bat an eyelid regarding the conditions they live or work in because its somethogn the majority who work in these plants come over to do. Could situation be dealt with better?? Of course but I also know of some meat plants where SD measures in the plant are impeccable but virus is still brought into the factory.

Wanderer78 · 22-09-2020 9:48am

tbayers wrote: »

So you are saying if they had a choice to pay a few hundred more for more space or pay the same they would choose the former?? It isn't that complex. If this was normal times no one would bat an eyelid regarding the conditions they live or work in because its somethogn the majority who work in these plants come over to do. Could situation be dealt with better?? Of course but I also know of some meat plants where SD measures in the plant are impeccable but virus is still brought into the factory.

life isnt that simply, we all know theres a serious problem regarding accommodation, pay and conditions in these environments isnt exactly great, and some of those folks could very well be sending money home, to support their families

dzilla · 22-09-2020 10:27am

I remember reading about this happening in German Pork factories back in May/June

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/coronavirus-how-germany-dealt-with-a-meat-plant-outbreak-1.4328602
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/22/meat-plant-must-be-held-to-account-covid-19-outbreak-germany

I was thinking to myself selfishly at least it has happened out there and not here and our abattoirs will be better equipped to prevent outbreaks from what we learn from our European counterparts. However it would appear that the govt didn't do anything to prevent what was inevitable in a sense.

Flow Motion · 22-09-2020 10:45am

I live in Ferrybank and judging by the vile smelling trucks that pass up and down the dual carriageway to/from AIBP I would not like to step inside that joint (forgive the pun!).

Wanderer78 · 22-09-2020 10:49am

dzilla wrote: »

I remember reading about this happening in German Pork factories back in May/June

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/coronavirus-how-germany-dealt-with-a-meat-plant-outbreak-1.4328602
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/22/meat-plant-must-be-held-to-account-covid-19-outbreak-germany

I was thinking to myself selfishly at least it has happened out there and not here and our abattoirs will be better equipped to prevent outbreaks from what we learn from our European counterparts. However it would appear that the govt didn't do anything to prevent what was inevitable in a sense.

id say its complicated enough, as others have said, the production lines would probably have to be radically changed to accommodate social distancing, this is probably extremely expensive, and time consuming to do, and in some cases, possibly, just impossible. ive no experience in the environment, but i know plenty that have and still do, theres probably other major pressures as well, some well reported, long before covid, but its clearly a common enough problem in the industry, and not just in ireland, so i wouldnt necessarily land it on the backs of the government, but they are playing a part

Wanderer78 · 22-09-2020 10:50am

Flow Motion wrote: »

I live in Ferrybank and judging by the vile smelling trucks that pass up and down the dual carriageway to/from AIBP I would not like to step inside that joint (forgive the pun!).

done a day in a tannery, jaysis! much respect to the folks that do it

hardybuck · 22-09-2020 10:51am

dzilla wrote: »

I remember reading about this happening in German Pork factories back in May/June

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/coronavirus-how-germany-dealt-with-a-meat-plant-outbreak-1.4328602
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/22/meat-plant-must-be-held-to-account-covid-19-outbreak-germany

I was thinking to myself selfishly at least it has happened out there and not here and our abattoirs will be better equipped to prevent outbreaks from what we learn from our European counterparts. However it would appear that the govt didn't do anything to prevent what was inevitable in a sense.

I find it interesting that your conclusion is that the Government is to blame for that.

Employers are being asked to abide by the health guidelines, and they have a legal responsibility to protect the health, safety and welfare of their staff. However when they don't do that we blame the Government for not catching them in the act.

Flow Motion · 22-09-2020 11:43am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

done a day in a tannery, jaysis! much respect to the folks that do it

I used to help the auld fella on my school holidays delivering meat to butchers and some of the stuff I saw was eye opening:eek: The front of house and products on display hide the "butchering" that goes on behind the scenes.
I used to eat a lot of meat growing up but have cut down my intake as I have gotten older and havent eaten red meat or pork for 3 years. *BUT* The smell of a rasher and sausage still makes my mouth water...

dzilla · 22-09-2020 12:19pm

hardybuck wrote: »

I find it interesting that your conclusion is that the Government is to blame for that.

Employers are being asked to abide by the health guidelines, and they have a legal responsibility to protect the health, safety and welfare of their staff. However when they don't do that we blame the Government for not catching them in the act.

Going on the outbreaks in Germany during the summer our government should have been more proactive in trying to prevent the same thing happening in the meat processing sector in Ireland.

hardybuck · 22-09-2020 12:24pm

dzilla wrote: »

Going on the outbreaks in Germany during the summer our government should have been more proactive in trying to prevent the same thing happening in the meat processing sector in Ireland.

You could also make the point that if the German's are struggling with it everyone will struggle with it.

The Government, and in particular the Health and Safety Authority, can't be everywhere at once. Employers as I say have a legal responsibility to protect staff welfare and should have proactively taken steps to do so.

It's notable that the construction sector had a couple of initial scares in the early stages and big sites were immediately closed down. We haven't heard about anything since.

Flow Motion · 22-09-2020 12:39pm

Dr Cormac McNamara of Keogh Practice was on Claire Byrne Show [Radio 1] earlier with regards to the rising numbers in particular counties and he said the last Monday [14th Sept] they were fielding a lot of calls & cases of C-19 but this week the amount of people coming in had fallen by about 70% and that this would be reflected in falling numbers in our cases over the next week or so. He went on to say that he hoped that this was due to the public making a renewed effort to sanitise/distance/reduce close contacts etc. So a little bit of hope in the locality perhaps??

This article from yesterday is worth a read. It how we in Ireland lost our Covid way these past few months..
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/three-covid-19-mistakes-ireland-urgently-needs-to-learn-from-1.4359807

dzilla · 22-09-2020 12:39pm

hardybuck wrote: »

You could also make the point that if the German's are struggling with it everyone will struggle with it.

The Government, and in particular the Health and Safety Authority, can't be everywhere at once. Employers as I say have a legal responsibility to protect staff welfare and should have proactively taken steps to do so.

It's notable that the construction sector had a couple of initial scares in the early stages and big sites were immediately closed down. We haven't heard about anything since.

Working on the advise that they had the governtment closed schools and a large chunk of the hospitality sector. As time went on the rules where relaxed and schools relaxed as it became known that the schools and restaurants etc with the adequate social distance are not a driver for the virus, that was an unknown that the govt acted on, and rightly so in my eyes as flu etc spreads through the schools.

It was known that the meat factories provided an environment for the virus to spread quickly at the start of the summer and I feel that there has not been enough done to prevent this in Ireland.

The powers that be at the factories certainly have a responsibility aswell to prevent this, but ethically are they bothered? The "Meat Barrons" show a contempt for their suppliers and workers and now the local environment. It is a kick in teeth if Waterford goes to level 3 due to the actions of the powers that be in these factories after keeping the virus at bay here for so long even with an influx of tourism .

I don't want to appear as if I am bashing the govt, however they did focus on getting office staff to work from home, the pubs to shut up shop and theatres and cinemas to close for a period. Going on the information they had they should have also been more proactive when dealing with the meat industry.

dzilla · 22-09-2020 12:43pm

hardybuck wrote: »

The Government, and in particular the Health and Safety Authority, can't be everywhere at once. Employers as I say have a legal responsibility to protect staff welfare and should have proactively taken steps to do so.

+1

Flow Motion · 22-09-2020 12:49pm

dzilla wrote: »

Going on the information they had they should have also been more proactive when dealing with the meat industry.

Not to mention the nursing homes debacle and to a lesser extent the direct provision centres. Its a shocking statistic that the conservative estimate is that 60% of the total C-19 deaths in Ireland have been in nursing homes. So if the total deaths to date is 1,792 than 1,075 have been in nursing homes!!:eek: The full extent of this serious Governmental lapse will only truly be known in the cold light of day when we get to the end of this sorry period.

hardybuck · 22-09-2020 1:51pm

Flow Motion wrote: »

Not to mention the nursing homes debacle and to a lesser extent the direct provision centres. Its a shocking statistic that the conservative estimate is that 60% of the total C-19 deaths in Ireland have been in nursing homes. So if the total deaths to date is 1,792 than 1,075 have been in nursing homes!!:eek: The full extent of this serious Governmental lapse will only truly be known in the cold light of day when we get to the end of this sorry period.

Again curious about this, you're talking about mostly private nursing homes.

Do you think they should have been shut altogether or do you think that we should have diverted focus away from public hospitals to prop up the private nursing home sector, because the HSE were barely keeping going at that time with the surge of cases.

The is another example of an industry with long track record of issues. I remember seeing a particularly notorious nursing home that had discarded used PPE all over the ground in front of their entrance which gives you some indication about how well the place must have been run.

hardybuck · 22-09-2020 2:11pm

dzilla wrote: »

Working on the advise that they had the governtment closed schools and a large chunk of the hospitality sector. As time went on the rules where relaxed and schools relaxed as it became known that the schools and restaurants etc with the adequate social distance are not a driver for the virus, that was an unknown that the govt acted on, and rightly so in my eyes as flu etc spreads through the schools.

It was known that the meat factories provided an environment for the virus to spread quickly at the start of the summer and I feel that there has not been enough done to prevent this in Ireland.

The powers that be at the factories certainly have a responsibility aswell to prevent this, but ethically are they bothered? The "Meat Barrons" show a contempt for their suppliers and workers and now the local environment. It is a kick in teeth if Waterford goes to level 3 due to the actions of the powers that be in these factories after keeping the virus at bay here for so long even with an influx of tourism .

I don't want to appear as if I am bashing the govt, however they did focus on getting office staff to work from home, the pubs to shut up shop and theatres and cinemas to close for a period. Going on the information they had they should have also been more proactive when dealing with the meat industry.

I don't think you could say it was to appease the 'beef barons', but I think there was a huge priority to ensure we had food to eat. Imagine the mass panic if we had bare shelves in March and April.

You've also got to factor in that farmers needed to move on their produce for processing. If they couldn't they might have been forced to kill their herds as you couldn't continue to feed stock that was due to be processed.

You couldn't compare them to schools as we needed to eat and you couldn't exactly do your work from home either.

If there is any good out of it and lessons learned I hope public sentiment prompts better working conditions in the sector in the long term.

dzilla · 22-09-2020 3:30pm

hardybuck wrote: »

If there is any good out of it and lessons learned I hope public sentiment prompts better working conditions in the sector in the long term.

Fact

Wanderer78 · 22-09-2020 4:34pm

Flow Motion wrote: »

Dr Cormac McNamara of Keogh Practice was on Claire Byrne Show [Radio 1] earlier with regards to the rising numbers in particular counties and he said the last Monday [14th Sept] they were fielding a lot of calls & cases of C-19 but this week the amount of people coming in had fallen by about 70% and that this would be reflected in falling numbers in our cases over the next week or so. He went on to say that he hoped that this was due to the public making a renewed effort to sanitise/distance/reduce close contacts etc. So a little bit of hope in the locality perhaps??

This article from yesterday is worth a read. It how we in Ireland lost our Covid way these past few months..
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/three-covid-19-mistakes-ireland-urgently-needs-to-learn-from-1.4359807

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/#/podcasts/series/32758