Man city (not) banned from Champions league for 2 years [Mod note see first post]

j8wk2feszrnpao

UrbanFret wrote: »

Where the **** do CAS say they believe City to be corrupt?

They said it 10m times.

spoonerhead

Drumpot wrote: »

It’s the same with politics and it’s population. Trump , Brexiteers and the rise of far right nationalism (zenophobia etc) is a reflection of society.

Man City winning this appeal, Newcastle potential takeover, what’s probably worse for us fans is that these are representations of the wider corruption within the sport. They are front page an center whereas most corruption happens in the backround.

Completely agree, football is a huge playground for the undesirables. Surprised Daniel Kinahan hasn’t moved into a premier league side at this stage...

I’m a massive fan of how the NFL organise pay scales and financial checks. Far more competitive sport also given the number of Super Bowl winners against champions league winners for example.

gimli2112

yeah it lets the worst teams get the best player picks every year and still Tampa Bay are terrible

y0ssar1an22

Cookiemunster wrote: »

CAS said that UEFA should have brought the case before the 5 years limit was up. That's doesn't in any way say that City are innocent or that CAS believe they are, only that UEFA fcuked up their case by not following their own rules

was reading up on this a bit. there are 2 statutes of limitations:

1. from when the offence took place
2. from when the offence was discovered

in this case, it is from when the offence took place (well its gotta be). begs the question, what were uefa doing? surely they knew this to be the case.

UrbanFret

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Small beer no doubt.

https://twitter.com/SkySportsPL/status/1282602339195641856?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

That would be the same SKY who have had Stephen Warnock spouting ****e all morning. Hasn't a fkn clue what he's talking about.

LineOfBeauty

A lot of vitriol but at the end of the day an independent court heard both sides of the argument and ruled conclusively in Man City's favour. All along City were confident of having done no wrong and that confidence has been justified by a court. I think people woke up this morning expecting this to be the end of Man City and now they're very annoyed and they've got the conspiracy theories and the hatred flowing but the result today has strengthened City's position in football in a major way and some people clearly don't like that.

UrbanFret

martingriff wrote: »

Ah no they did not lose. CAS still upheld the charge just did not agree with punishment. if EUFA lost there be no fine and City be found innocent

CAS found that City did not fully cooperate with Uefa's investigation.
City have said all along that they could cooperate no further because Uefa had been sent every relevant document.
There was literally nothing else to give, they said.


That's it .

Cookiemunster

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

A lot of vitriol but at the end of the day an independent court heard both sides of the argument and ruled conclusively in Man City's favour. All along City were confident of having done no wrong and that confidence has been justified by a court. I think people woke up this morning expecting this to be the end of Man City and now they're very annoyed and they've got the conspiracy theories and the hatred flowing but the result today has strengthened City's position in football in a major way and some people clearly don't like that.

The ruling doesn't say anything about City having done nothing wrong. It says that UEFA shouldn't have brought a case that was outside the statute of limitations that's written in it's own rules. That does not in any way mean that City are innocent of the charges, just that UEFA should have brought the case earlier. It does find City guilty of obstructing the investigation, therefore they have still been fined. Those are not conspiracy theories, they're facts.

spoonerhead

gimli2112 wrote: »

yeah it lets the worst teams get the best player picks every year and still Tampa Bay are terrible

We aren’t terrible actually, are on the right path and have the best WR duo in football. Back to topic, I don’t see how FFP works for anyone, or can be managed properly. Reason I brought up NFLs rules are because of how clear they are to follow. The drafting system is unbelievably effective over times, but something like that won’t work for football. Time to put in place proper money laundering legislation in order to compete in European competitions. Not just looking at City here, the likes of Real Madrid’s government bailouts and Chelsea’s investments make the playing ground uneven. Need clear rules to stop City’s owners sponsoring their own team and salary caps for a start,

Cookiemunster

UrbanFret wrote: »

CAS found that City did not fully cooperate with Uefa's investigation.
City have said all along that they could cooperate no further because Uefa had been sent every relevant document.
There was literally nothing else to give, they said.


That's it .

CAS disagrees with you and City on that. Otherwise there wouldn't be a fine. You seem to be taking the part of the ruling that suits you and your narrative and running with it, while ignoring the bit that doesn't suit you.

gimli2112

I didn't know you were a Bucks fan, Spoonerhead. I just knew they were an expansion side, had a disastrous record, won a superbowl with an amazing defence and have been terrible since.
You have a pretty good QB, I believe.

UrbanFret

Cookiemunster wrote: »

CAS disagrees with you and City on that. Otherwise there wouldn't be a fine. You seem to be taking the part of the ruling that suits you and your narrative and running with it, while ignoring the bit that doesn't suit you.

The reason for the fine was they found City didn't fully cooperate with the investigation.

UrbanFret

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The ruling doesn't say anything about City having done nothing wrong. It says that UEFA shouldn't have brought a case that was outside the statute of limitations that's written in it's own rules. That does not in any way mean that City are innocent of the charges, just that UEFA should have brought the case earlier. It does find City guilty of obstructing the investigation, therefore they have still been fined. Those are not conspiracy theories, they're facts.

It doesn't say anything about them having done wrong either so what's your point.
City knew the obstructed the investigation from the beginning maybe if UEFA didn't back a thief whos sitting in a Cell this morning they might have some shred of credibility left.

DM_7

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j8wk2feszrnpao

UrbanFret wrote: »

It doesn't say anything about them having done wrong either so what's your point.
City knew the obstructed the investigation from the beginning maybe if UEFA didn't back a thief whos sitting in a Cell this morning they might have some shred of credibility left.

So why do you believe the City owners? You use the terms "corrupt", "thief" etc.... but the City owners have an appalling record, far worst than anything you can throw at UEFA.
In terms of "credibility", why back the human right violators?

spoonerhead

gimli2112 wrote: »

I didn't know you were a Bucks fan, Spoonerhead. I just knew they were an expansion side, had a disastrous record, won a superbowl with an amazing defence and have been terrible since.
You have a pretty good QB, I believe.

Signed some lad from Boston, you’ve probably heard of him. Trust me, I’ve seen the disastrous record, but we are no longer the wooden spoon thankfully! Took a while.

Don’t get many stories like them in football anymore, Leicester really where exceptional. FFP should really be something that encourages stories like that more frequently, instead of the City nonsense ongoing.

gimli2112

City fans on SSN going on about defamation of character. Erm.

All_in_Flynn

Wish I could say I was surprised by the decision. I have a massive problem with the fact Saudi and Qatar are being allowed to buy and run football clubs.

If United were ever taken over by a regime such as those, then I would stop supporting the club without a moments hesitation. Any success derived from their investment would feel hollow and barren. I really hope the Newcastle takeover doesn't happen. It would be very sad to see a club like that fall under the umbrella of a country such as those.

In saying that, UEFA are a shambles and have been embarrassed by this ruling. FFP is dead in the water without a revamp of the rules.

Zebra3

Where does the €10,000,000 fine go?

Does it conveniently go in to UEFA's coffers to pay for first class flights, five star hotels, and Michelin star restaurant dinners for shysters like Delaney?

gimli2112

All_in_Flynn wrote: »

If United were ever taken over by a regime such as those, then I would stop supporting the club without a moments hesitation.

I think that's a noble stance to take but a lot of people would have a difficulty walking away from a club they supported since childhood. I really don't know how I'd react.

Zebra3

All_in_Flynn wrote: »

Wish I could say I was surprised by the decision. I have a massive problem with the fact Saudi and Qatar are being allowed to buy and run football clubs.

If United were ever taken over by a regime such as those, then I would stop supporting the club without a moments hesitation. Any success derived from their investment would feel hollow and barren. I really hope the Newcastle takeover doesn't happen. It would be very sad to see a club like that fall under the umbrella of a country such as those.

In saying that, UEFA are a shambles and have been embarrassed by this ruling. FFP is dead in the water without a revamp of the rules.

But you'll continue to support United while they are being funded by Saudi Arabia without an actual takeover?

gimli2112

Daz_ wrote: »

I suppose when City are their biggest threat it makes sense .

Remember last year when it was the other way round?

I think most Liverpool fans have no issue with City being in the CL if for no other reason it should distract you from the PL.

8-10

Daz_ wrote: »

Seems like this decision really upsets Liverpool fans the most . Suddenly they have a keen interest in human rights etc lol .

suppose when City are their biggest threat it makes sense .

I don't consider City a rival. I think it's good news for us domestically, not so much in the CL which I hope we can win next season

Daz_

gimli2112 wrote: »

Remember last year when it was the other way round?

I think most Liverpool fans have no issue with City being in the CL if for no other reason it should distract you from the PL.

Comment liked by ... 2 Liverpool fans . What a surprise

Mitch Connor

When I heard about the timing issue a few weeks ago I couldn't understand why Uefa banned City, and how anyone could think CAS wouldn't overturn it.

If City did wrong, they did so more than 5 years ago, so too long for Uefa to act on it. According to their own regs. and that is litterally what CAS have judged this on.

They say the accusations were either no proven enough, or were timed-out. The timed-out bit is important. It means CAS are not saying City did not do what Uefa banned them for (or parts of it) but that simply Uefa's own rules stop them from doing anything about it at this stage.

It has to be seen as utterly moronic for Uefa to have banned City for breaches they said themselves took place too long ago to do anything about now. Moronic. They have made a joke of themselves and the FFP process by trying to overplay their hand.

8-10

Daz_ wrote: »

Comment liked by ... 2 Liverpool fans . What a surprise

It shouldn't be a surprise that Liverpool fans see benefit in City having a PL distraction, as small at it may be. I think City without Europe win the league next season. Now i think we have more of a chance.

Though in the flip side who knows who they may sign now or who they had lined up to sign but couldn't pull the trigger until CL soccer was guaranteed....Messi perhaps?

UrbanFret

munstermagic11 wrote: »

So why do you believe the City owners? You use the terms "corrupt", "thief" etc.... but the City owners have an appalling record, far worst than anything you can throw at UEFA.
In terms of "credibility", why back the human right violators?

This is a football forum. The issue is football. The world's a cruel.place, plenty of human rights violations closer to home.

j8wk2feszrnpao

UrbanFret wrote: »

This is a football forum. The issue is football. The world's a cruel.place, plenty of human rights violations closer to home.

They own the football club.
You didn't answer the question.

Mitch Connor

UrbanFret wrote: »

This is a football forum. The issue is football. The world's a cruel.place, plenty of human rights violations closer to home.

and you are just a willing soldier in their sports washing.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Daz_ wrote: »

Comment liked by ... 2 Liverpool fans . What a surprise

You must be easily surprised if having to play CL matches, along with Liverpool, will be more of a benefit to Liverpool than City not playing CL football.

Unearthly

Man City and UEFA have come out of this looking terrible. Footballs version of Johnny Depp and Amber Heard with one of the parties (Uefa) also ****ting the bed

The rules only apply to those in life we can do without.

You can be sure if this was some League 2 side they would have been banned and that's the end of it.

They shouldn't even bother having rules they wont properly implement.

I think itll be Leicester this affects, I had them down for 5th a few weeks ago and they're going to be there on merit soon.

UrbanFret

munstermagic11 wrote: »

They own the football club.
You didn't answer the question.

I back the club end off. Always have and always will.

8-10

UrbanFret wrote: »

I back the club end off. Always have and always will.

You don't have to back the owners though to support the club

super_furry

If I were a Barcelona director, I'd be very worried right now.

magma69

Money rules the roost. This is just another in a long line of examples. The game has gone a bit rotten really hasn't it? Even just the money these players are on. Over a hundred grand a week to kick a ball around the pitch. It goes against the spirit of sport imo.

super_furry

How long until Daniel Kinehan rocks up at the Etihad now?

j8wk2feszrnpao

UrbanFret wrote: »

I back the club end off. Always have and always will.

Ok. You're fine with corruption, unless it's someone else. Hurts you're own "credibility" though.

UEFA, if it wants to continue with FFP, needs to get their house in order. Otherwise, City/PSG and the Saudi's takeover of Newcastle, will just make a mockery of it.

For now, football will move on.

super_furry

FFP is dead now, there's no continuing with it, it's a failed project.

Shanotheslayer

UrbanFret wrote: »

I back the club end off. Always have and always will.

That's a bold move cotton

pjohnson

I dont think OJ celebrated as much as the City fan here. And OJ was actually found innocent. City weren't.

rob316

super_furry wrote: »

FFP is dead now, there's no continuing with it, it's a failed project.

I never agreed with it. The elite shouldn't remain the elite.

Thinking its so UEFA can protect clubs from rogue owners running a club into the ground is a cod. The big clubs didn't like PSG and Man City taking their place, this was UEFA's play to placate them and stop the creation of a super league which would make their competitions redundant.

Anyway they will be determined to win it this season and really stick it to UEFA

gimli2112

Anything championed by the likes of Platini and Blatter should be viewed suspiciously

Zebra3

pjohnson wrote: »

I dont think OJ celebrated as much as the City fan here. And OJ was actually found innocent. City weren't.

What an apt comparison.

Two people brutally murdered and a dispute over the funding of a football club.

DVDM93

Zebra3 wrote: »

What an apt comparison.

Two people brutally murdered and a dispute over the funding of a football club.

going by your username I'm guessing you feel they are black & white by comparison?

Shanotheslayer

DVDM93 wrote: »

going by your username I'm guessing you feel they are black & white by comparison?

There's no way you didn't write that with a little smile on your face.

Very good I enjoyed it :pac:

PhlegmyMoses

rob316 wrote: »

I never agreed with it. The elite shouldn't remain the elite.

Thinking its so UEFA can protect clubs from rogue owners running a club into the ground is a cod. The big clubs didn't like PSG and Man City taking their place, this was UEFA's play to placate them and stop the creation of a super league which would make their competitions redundant.

Anyway they will be determined to win it this season and really stick it to UEFA

The big clubs absolutely should not want teams like PSG and City and there is absolutely no shame in that. City and PSG, and maybe Newcastle soon, create a scenario where it will be even more elitist, absent any kind of FFP protections. Basically be bought up by one of a handful of nation states that will back you or get to the back of queue. Did we mention that they won't actually buy your club either, because the initial outlay will be billions instead of hundreds of millions? So that avenue is all but closed off to you. Also, work hard and build your club? Nope, that's gone now, you can never hope to out earn these clubs backed by the wealth of a nation. It amazes me that people paint traditionally big clubs as the bad guys in this scenario, insofar as it is just one set of elitists looking after their own interests versus another. There is no noble cause in all of this

Weepsie

rob316 wrote: »

I never agreed with it. The elite shouldn't remain the elite.

Thinking its so UEFA can protect clubs from rogue owners running a club into the ground is a cod. The big clubs didn't like PSG and Man City taking their place, this was UEFA's play to placate them and stop the creation of a super league which would make their competitions redundant.

Anyway they will be determined to win it this season and really stick it to UEFA

I think real will fancy dumping them out

ebbsy

pjohnson wrote: »

I dont think OJ celebrated as much as the City fan here. And OJ was actually found innocent. City weren't.

If the glove does not fit you must acquit.

Joe Exotic

pjohnson wrote: »

I dont think OJ celebrated as much as the City fan here. And OJ was actually found innocent. City weren't.

I dont think you understand how the trial system works:

1. OJ was not found innocent, trials dont decide innocence only guilt. He was found not guilty as in not enough evidence to justify a guilty verdict, as such he retained his presumption of innocence.

2. in the same manner City were cleared of the charges because CAS determind that UEFAs finding was flawed and there was not enough evidence to justify a guilty verdict. as such Ciity also retain the presumption of innocence (in sofar as that right is granted to cpmpanies).

3. furhter to this point the CAS judgement stated "MANCHESTER CITY FC DID NOT DISGUISE EQUITY FUNDING AS
SPONSORSHIP CONTRIBUTIONS BUT DID FAIL TO COOPERATE WITH THE
UEFA AUTHORITIES"

https://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/CAS_Media_Release_6785_Decision.pdf

Further down inthe release they state:
"The CAS award emphasized that most of the alleged breaches reported by the Adjudicatory Chamber
of the CFCB were either not established or time-barred"

In other words they looked into some allegations and found them not having evidence and others were beyond the time limits (and so would not have been examined as they would be struck off immeadiatley)

Will be interesting reading when the Detailed jusdgement comes out, but how anyone can read the release and decide city were not cleared fully is beyond me, the fact that UEFA found them Guilty of charges which they knew (surely they were aware:eek:) were outside the time limit shows that the entire investigation and all findings must be viewed in light of the lack of integrity UEFA have shown.