Man city (not) banned from Champions league for 2 years [Mod note see first post]

ozzy jr

ozzy jr wrote: »

I would guess (note the word guess) that Guardiola is on a similar pay scheme to Mancini (at the very least). I would be very surprised if the declared wages on citys books are all he gets. The same could be said for a lot of their players too.

When this question was put to him at a press conference he refused to answer it.

So he had a perfect opportunity to deny it and put it to bed but he didn’t.

I’m sure it’s on YouTube so maybe someone with more skills, than I, can put it up here.

I think his reaction, to the very simple question, was very very weird.

8-10

[Deleted User] wrote: »

When this question was put to him at a press conference he refused to answer it.

So he had a perfect opportunity to deny it and put it to bed but he didn’t.

I’m sure it’s on YouTube so maybe someone with more skills, than I, can put it up here.

I think his reaction, to the very simple question, was very very weird.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112561110&postcount=221

Ha.

And only 2 days ago.

That’s pretty much how I remember it.

A simple ‘no I haven’t’ and it’s put to bed.

Shanotheslayer

8-10 wrote: »

I'd imagine they would have to open their books and hit agreed targets before getting back in.

I've always wondered about City. They have some great players like Aguero, Silva, Kompany, Yaya, Fernandinho....etc etc the past decade....but no other big club ever seems linked to them. Barcelona, Juve, Real Madrid, PSG, Bayern etc....never linked. It's not because they're not good enough, but why couldn't they be pryed away? Who have they lost that they didn't want to sell?

The financial power they have must be massive. If they did pay their manager a double salary by employing him twice then is it mad to think they might be doing that with players or the current manager?

Then you have to consider this is a club who can't even sell out Champions League games...where is the cash coming from?

Just on this:

Yaya came from Barca
Aguero from Atleti which would rule out Madrid and maybe playing for another Spanish team.
Kompany was captain and always seemed loyal.

I get your point but there is other reasons.

Barca also had Xavi Iniesta Busquets for a lot of that time so there was no need for Silva/Fern

~Rebel~

gimli2112 wrote: »

I had to look up the last one as I couldn't remember it and found this.Liverpool were themselves cleared of breaching FFP rules in 2015. ... The governing body accepted that Liverpool had spent £49.6 million on stadium costs which is allowable expenditure.

We were punished for all the other ones and rightly so, except the league cup one but I'll happily accept a two year ban.

I'm honestly not bothered if City or punished or not but they deserve to be.

We were punished for that one too, with the same fine that was precedent from other teams doing the same thing.

LuckyLloyd

gstack166 wrote: »

A Liverpool fan with a balanced point of view. My eyes must be deceiving me!

Just on your last point, is it not fair to say Liverpool gained an advantage playing an ineligible player in the league cup this year despite agreeing to the rules not to?

Did they not gain an advantage by tapping up VVD while under contract at Southampton?

Did they not gain an advantage hacking a scouting data network?

Did they not gain an advantage by failing to comply by FFP themselves but having not qualified for a Europe escaped a charge?

We can pick holes in every club.

‘Yeah I buried all those bodies and lied about it for years; but you got a couple of speeding tickets, so we’re the same’.

Cork Boy 53

Why has there been no pre match press conference as per usual before the City- West Ham PL game tonight? Strikes me as unusual especially considering UEFA`s announcement last week.

GLaDOS

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Why has there been no pre match press conference as per usual before the City- West Ham PL game tonight? Strikes me as unusual especially considering UEFA`s announcement last week.

They did a pre-match press conference before the cancelled game. Therefore the media commitments are fulfilled so they don't have to do another.

rob316

City's appeal will be about challenging FFP and beating UEFA so the whole thing collapses. They are guilty for what they are been accused of, UEFA have them dead to rights on this.

If they didn't surely it would be easy for them to prove the whole sponsorship money came from Ethiad directly and not the Sheikh? Money leaves a trail. Why else would you refuse to co-operate with an investigation if you had nothing to hide?

Muahahaha

~Rebel~ wrote: »

While this is true, I would expect the compromise to be that since the club's own actions have stopped them being able to earn the various CL related bonuses, that they'll agree to pay all the CL related bonuses in full (which of course would cost a fortune, but I still think they'd do that rather than lose players en-masse).

You're right also on them having to make up the shortfall of the CL money, but I'm sure they'll find a way, especially with the expanded World Club Cup coming up with potentially massive payouts.

I think that thats what they would want to do but the question is can they do it when their books are under a FFP microscope? If the ban is upheld and Man City want to get back into the CL I'd imagine UEFA will practically have a team of auditors on site at the Ethiad making sure there is no more financial trickery.

The other side of it is the players themselves, if you're a world class player like Kevin de Bruyne who is 29 in June are you really going to accept not playing in the CL again until you're 31? He knows he is at the peak of his career right now so I couldnt see him staying even if all his bonuses were paid. There will be a queue of clubs with CL football who would happily take him and de Bruyne himself will not want to be sitting at home on Tuesdays and Wednesdays watching his peers all competing in the CL. Modern footballers dont have any loyalty despite what fans like to think, they'll always do whats best for themselves, not the club.

Generally speaking, I'm actually fairly shocked by the sheer level of vitriol and conspiratorial nonsense coming from non-BlueMoon places. Like, even just looking at the profile's of the QC's that were on the investigating committee for 5 minutes tells you this isn't some faceless anti-City agenda. These are serious independent law-makers and judges who won't be tarring their careers with nonsense like that. By all accounts, while the publicly available emails were the touch-paper of the investigation, they're not the spine of it. They simply informed the investigation committee on where to look within the officially submitted accounts so they could corroborate everything. It seems like they spent a year on this to make sure it was absolutely watertight, and I don't see CAS being an easy ride for City with that being the case.

Yeah, agreed. Some people seem to think that City are just going to walk into the CAS with a big bag of cash, hand it over and be on their merry way and back competing in the CL quick smart. It doesnt work like that, they're on a serious back foot here and the CAS ruling could be a solid nail in their coffin. After that they've got the Supreme Court of Switerland and the European Court of Human Rights to appeal to but so long as UEFA have their i's dotted and t's crossed on processes and procedure they'll be laughed out of there too.

The appeals will push the ban out. I cant see it happening for next seasons CL at all, more likely the 2021-22 season. Either way its hard to attract tier 1 and 2 players when they know you're going to be banned from the CL during the life time of the contract with the manager likely bailing too. This is a real mess for City.

ozzy jr

Muahahaha wrote: »

de Bruyne himself will not want to be sitting at home on Tuesdays and Wednesdays watching his peers all competing in the CL.

Did you not read the thread? He's going to be playing in lucrative friendlies around the World.

LineOfBeauty

ozzy jr wrote: »

Did you not read the thread? He's going to be playing lucrative in friendlies around the World.

You say it ironically as though this isn't a possibility when it's something that has been floated as a distinct possibility. But if you read what I said, I believe Man City (Pep, De Bruyne and all the gang) will be in the Champions League next season.

ArmaniJeanss

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

You say it ironically as though this isn't a possibility when it's something that has been floated as a distinct possibility.

How would this work in practice?
Presumably you mean games during the week of CL/EL but by definition there won't be any top European opposition available to play.
Travelling to Asia etc seems complicated. Play league game at 4.30 Sunday, travel half way around world, then back for 3pm kick off Saturday. And it may be even tighter timewise, expect some Monday night EPL fixtures on European weeks if you aren't in Europe.
And how lucrative is such a game going to be - friendlies have a market in July when we are starved of football. But how attractive is such a fixture going to be on a CL week?
Not to mention a licensing issue - as we saw 10 years ago when the FAI refused a license for a Limerick/Barca game you need agreement of both FA's to play a friendly so the FA/EPL could block such a game.

It seems a very unworkable idea.

UrbanFret

Muahahaha wrote: »

I think that thats what they would want to do but the question is can they do it when their books are under a FFP microscope? If the ban is upheld and Man City want to get back into the CL I'd imagine UEFA will practically have a team of auditors on site at the Ethiad making sure there is no more financial trickery.

The other side of it is the players themselves, if you're a world class player like Kevin de Bruyne who is 29 in June are you really going to accept not playing in the CL again until you're 31? He knows he is at the peak of his career right now so I couldnt see him staying even if all his bonuses were paid. There will be a queue of clubs with CL football who would happily take him and de Bruyne himself will not want to be sitting at home on Tuesdays and Wednesdays watching his peers all competing in the CL. Modern footballers dont have any loyalty despite what fans like to think, they'll always do whats best for themselves, not the club.



Yeah, agreed. Some people seem to think that City are just going to walk into the CAS with a big bag of cash, hand it over and be on their merry way and back competing in the CL quick smart. It doesnt work like that, they're on a serious back foot here and the CAS ruling could be a solid nail in their coffin. After that they've got the Supreme Court of Switerland and the European Court of Human Rights to appeal to but so long as UEFA have their i's dotted and t's crossed on processes and procedure they'll be laughed out of there too.

The appeals will push the ban out. I cant see it happening for next seasons CL at all, more likely the 2021-22 season. Either way its hard to attract tier 1 and 2 players when they know you're going to be banned from the CL during the life time of the contract with the manager likely bailing too. This is a real mess for City.

No one thinks city are going to walk in to CAS with a bag of cash so stop posting rubbish . No players or manager will be leaving either. City aren't going.away anytime soon. The ride continues.

rob316

I have one question. If there sponsorship is in breach for 12-16, isn't the current sponsorship unchanged and also in breach?

LineOfBeauty

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

How would this work in practice?
Presumably you mean games during the week of CL/EL but by definition there won't be any top European opposition available to play.
Travelling to Asia etc seems complicated. Play league game at 4.30 Sunday, travel half way around world, then back for 3pm kick off Saturday. And it may be even tighter timewise, expect some Monday night EPL fixtures on European weeks if you aren't in Europe.
And how lucrative is such a game going to be - friendlies have a market in July when we are starved of football. But how attractive is such a fixture going to be on a CL week?
Not to mention a licensing issue - as we saw 10 years ago when the FAI refused a license for a Limerick/Barca game you need agreement of both FA's to play a friendly so the FA/EPL could block such a game.

It seems a very unworkable idea.

I have no idea honestly, I don't know what the workarounds are or the logitistics, it's something I've seen mentioned in articles in the last few days as a possibility if the ultimate verdict of this doesn't go City's way. How it works, I don't know. But is it interesting? I think so. Especially at a time where we are seeing states like Saudi Arabia showing interesting in showcasing top club matches (for big money) and FIFA looking to expand the reach of the Club World Cup.

gstack166

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

How would this work in practice?
Presumably you mean games during the week of CL/EL but by definition there won't be any top European opposition available to play.
Travelling to Asia etc seems complicated. Play league game at 4.30 Sunday, travel half way around world, then back for 3pm kick off Saturday. And it may be even tighter timewise, expect some Monday night EPL fixtures on European weeks if you aren't in Europe.
And how lucrative is such a game going to be - friendlies have a market in July when we are starved of football. But how attractive is such a fixture going to be on a CL week?
Not to mention a licensing issue - as we saw 10 years ago when the FAI refused a license for a Limerick/Barca game you need agreement of both FA's to play a friendly so the FA/EPL could block such a game.

It seems a very unworkable idea.

In theory, they could have their own knock out tournament in UAE. Could call it the ‘Dubai Invitational Championship’ and invite Sligo Rovers, St. Mirren & Fleetwood town to participate in it, all of whom would, with the winner of the competition receiving £750m. Then FFP would have to come up with another concoction to snare them.

givyjoe

gstack166 wrote: »

In theory, they could have their own knock out tournament in UAE. Could call it the ‘Dubai Invitational Championship’ and invite Sligo Rovers, St. Mirren & Fleetwood town to participate in it, all of whom would, with the winner of the competition receiving £750m. Then FFP would have to come up with another concoction to snare them.

The point being, they wouldn't be breaking the rules in this made up scenario. In the real world, they have broken the rules.

citytillidie

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

I have no idea honestly, I don't know what the workarounds are or the logitistics, it's something I've seen mentioned in articles in the last few days as a possibility if the ultimate verdict of this doesn't go City's way. How it works, I don't know. But is it interesting? I think so. Especially at a time where we are seeing states like Saudi Arabia showing interesting in showcasing top club matches (for big money) and FIFA looking to expand the reach of the Club World Cup.

And to get into the Club World Cup you have to win the Continental Championship ie Champions League for European teams or the Host League, expanding it to every 4 years to replace the confederations cup will no doubt mean it will be the 4 previous Champions League winners and maybe Europa League winners depending on how many teams FIFA want

gstack166

givyjoe wrote: »

The point being, they wouldn't be breaking the rules in this made up scenario. In the real world, they have broken the rules.

Let’s see if an independent adjuster thinks the same.

givyjoe

gstack166 wrote: »

Let’s see if an independent adjuster thinks the same.

Adjuster.. interesting error in selection of words. Indeed. Still very strange that City wouldn't cooperate. The only thing CAS are likely to disagree on, is the severity of the ban.

ozzy jr

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

But if you read what I said, I believe Man City (Pep, De Bruyne and all the gang) will be in the Champions League next season.

I believe so too.

ozzy jr

gstack166 wrote: »

In theory, they could have their own knock out tournament in UAE. Could call it the ‘Dubai Invitational Championship’ and invite Sligo Rovers, St. Mirren & Fleetwood town to participate in it, all of whom would, with the winner of the competition receiving £750m. Then FFP would have to come up with another concoction to snare them.

I don't know the ins and outs of FFP, but I'm guessing if it was that simple, they'd have already done it.

Martin Tyler AgueroooOO

Let's hope the CAS people don't go near a UAE embassy those Middle East genocide dictatorships like disappearing people who challenge and question them.

Martin Tyler AgueroooOO

Martin Tyler AgueroooOO wrote: »

Let's hope the CAS people don't go near a UAE embassy those Middle East genocide dictatorships like disappearing people who challenge and question them.

I do think the language of scorched earths and wars is unhelpful, inflammatory, and simply reminds us all that cheating in football is at the more minor end of allegations against club owners linked to...well genocides, scorched earths and wars. It's football, perspective is needed, it's nothing compared to what they are linked to in Yemen and the humanitarian crisis there.

Agent Coulson

Deleted User wrote: »

I do think the language of scorched earths and wars is unhelpful, inflammatory, and simply reminds us all that cheating in football is at the more minor end of allegations against club owners linked to...well genocides, scorched earths and wars. It's football, perspective is needed, it's nothing compared to what they are linked to in Yemen and the humanitarian crisis there.

Don't forget China also owns 13% of City as well. How long before they start to put sinister pressure on UEFA and CAS.

gstack166

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Don't forget China also owns 13% of City as well. How long before they start to put sinister pressure on UEFA and CAS.

Don’t forget Ricky Hatton also owns a season ticket at City as well. How long before he starts to put sinister pressure on UEFA and CAS to step inside the ring at the MEN Arena.

Bore off will you.

Tippex

rob316 wrote: »

I have one question. If there sponsorship is in breach for 12-16, isn't the current sponsorship unchanged and also in breach?

There have been a couple of quiet reports that yes this only applies to those years and there is indeed a seperate investication into 2017 on (I cannot remember where I heard it so I have no source)

gstack166

Tippex wrote: »

There have been a couple of quiet reports that yes this only applies to those years and there is indeed a seperate investication into 2017 on (I cannot remember where I heard it so I have no source)

UEFA will be assessing ALL clubs' financials from 2016 as a part of their process of looking at a rolling 3 year assessment of financials.

UrbanFret

Its a good job America or Britain never bombs any innocents in their role as "world police" or any of their Banks launder money for the likes of Cuba, Iran, or Syria.

~Rebel~

UrbanFret wrote: »

Its a good job America or Britain never bombs any innocents in their role as "world police" or any of their Banks launder money for the likes of Cuba, Iran, or Syria.

There's a difference between being owned by "Americans" and being owned by "America"... it's a pretty important distinction... for all intents and purposes, City are a state owned club.

For instance, you can point at John Henry and say "You happen to be a private citizen living in a country that has bombed innocents", versus pointing at the Sheikh and saying "You've literally bombed innocents".

Look, nobody's perfect, but there are degrees and lines. And it's probably fair to say that having a direct hand in genocide is on the far side of that line.


But sure look, that's all a debate for another day really. From where things stand, it'll be a tough one for City to get out of. I see talk of tackling the whole concept of FFP, but surely that can't be done in relation to their CAS appeal right? Surely that's an entirely separate case, to be taken entirely separately, and can't really have anything to do with their CAS appeal. I'd imagine the remit for the CAS appeal for this specific ban cannot step beyond "Did you falsify your UEFA paperwork to hide where the money was coming from?" and everything needs to be in relation to that simple question.

Dots1982

A lot of empty seats at the Ethiad tonight. In an era where city are achieving what they never have before.

The idea that this project could really come off the rails if the right conditions were met in terms of punishments from UEFA and the PL is not a far fetched one. City are a big club because of the Qatar investment but for history and fan base they are a long way the real goliaths of European football.

POKERKING

Dots1982 wrote: »

A lot of empty seats at the Ethiad tonight. In an era where city are achieving what they never have before.

The idea that this project could really come off the rails if the right conditions were met in terms of punishments from UEFA and the PL is not a far fetched one. City are a big club because of the Qatar investment but for history and fan base they are a long way the real goliaths of European football.

City are a big club for england and they were before the investment came along just like Aston Villa Everton etc. i dont think anyone even the most deluded city fan has ever claimed they were a real goliath of european football.

With continued success and fan bases across the world maturing, who’s to say in say 20 years they wont be?

Dots1982

POKERKING wrote: »

City are a big club for england and they were before the investment came along just like Aston Villa Everton etc. i dont think anyone even the most deluded city fan has ever claimed they were a real goliath of european football.

With continued success and fan bases across the world maturing, who’s to say in say 20 years they wont be?

The project at city was clearly to make them a Goliath. A project that is now on the skids.

POKERKING

Dots1982 wrote: »

The project at city was clearly to make them a Goliath. A project that is now on the skids.

Was going to take more than 10 years to do that. And every journey has its bumps. I will be shocked if they arent playing in europe next season.

TitianGerm

POKERKING wrote: »

Was going to take more than 10 years to do that. And every journey has its bumps. I will be shocked if they arent playing in europe next season.

They'll be in Europe next year unless the CAS thing is rushed but that will most likely drag out for a few months so the ban will be postponed until the following year.

Martin Tyler AgueroooOO

City want to break what they see as UEFA Cartel so they can get into and be top of the heap of that same cartel.

Martin Tyler AgueroooOO

City fans are just following orders.

8-10

Martin Tyler AgueroooOO wrote: »

City fans are just following orders.

Aren't you a city fan.....?

gstack166

PSG’s president & owner indicted in Switzerland over awarding of the FIFA World Cup, a man on UEFAS executive committee, a man with a conflict of interest in Manchester City. A man who’s country (Qatar) have very strained relations with UAE.

UEFA can’t be corrupt and Man City are cheats though.

LineOfBeauty

gstack166 wrote: »

PSG’s president & owner indicted in Switzerland over awarding of the FIFA World Cup, a man on UEFAS executive committee, a man with a conflict of interest in Manchester City. A man who’s country (Qatar) have very strained relations with UAE.

UEFA can’t be corrupt and Man City are cheats though.

There's more than a touch of the kangaroo court about it.

8-10

gstack166 wrote: »

UEFA can’t be corrupt and Man City are cheats though.

Can both be true?

gstack166

8-10 wrote: »

Can both be true?

Of course, but seeing Pep & Ferran Soriano pitting their reputations on the line yesterday demanding a independent enquiry & saying straight out the allegations are lies would have to make you wonder if everything it’s being done fairly, especially after today’s arrest.

Time will tell.

LineOfBeauty

gstack166 wrote: »

Of course, but seeing Pep & Ferran Soriano pitting their reputations on the line yesterday demanding a independent enquiry & saying straight out the allegations are lies would have to make you wonder if everything it’s being done fairly, especially after today’s arrest.

Time will tell.

Thought Guardiola came out really strong yesterday in his comments. Delighted that he will stay, people underestimate how strongly he feels for our club.

gstack166

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Thought Guardiola came out really strong yesterday in his comments. Delighted that he will stay, people underestimate how strongly he feels for our club.

Even had a dig at Barcelona, which I thought would never happen. I’ve no doubt who’s behind the arrest this morning, this is just the start of the cans of worms opening.

Fitz*

gstack166 wrote: »

Of course, but seeing Pep & Ferran Soriano pitting their reputations on the line yesterday demanding a independent enquiry & saying straight out the allegations are lies would have to make you wonder if everything it’s being done fairly, especially after today’s arrest.

Time will tell.

Of course they are going to say that. What else are they going to do? Admit wrong doing publicly, before the club goes to appeal the ban? That would be stupidity.

gstack166

FitzShane wrote: »

Of course they are going to say that. What else are they going to do? Admit wrong doing publicly, before the club goes to appeal the ban? That would be stupidity.

The said there’s no truth whatsoever in the allegations and that they promise the fans they’ll do everything to prove it. If they were caught red handed then why did they refuse the plea deal to escape the ban? Why risk it if you know you’ve done wrong & been caught?

LineOfBeauty

gstack166 wrote: »

Even had a dig at Barcelona, which I thought would never happen. I’ve no doubt who’s behind the arrest this morning, this is just the start of the cans of worms opening.

Said it a few days ago, even if Uefa hate us, it's a bad idea to poke the hornets nest.

Martin Tyler AgueroooOO

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Thought Guardiola came out really strong yesterday in his comments. Delighted that he will stay, people underestimate how strongly he feels for our club.MONEY

.

LineOfBeauty

Martin Tyler AgueroooOO wrote: »

.

Because all coaches and all players play for their respective clubs purely based purely on their altruistic ways and of course no other top club in Europe would take on Guardiola and pay him a buckets load of cash either.