Health system

ted1

So taking a break from the main GE thread I thought we’d start a separate health thread and see how we fix the system

I’m Currently paying about 2,500 a year so 5,000 before tax for private health insurance for myself , wife and three kids.

Don’t have day to day , so spend and additional 600 euro cash on doctors a year.

So the question is, if there was a good health system would you be willing to pay an extra 2 thousand ( per family, say700 for an individual) in taxes for a proper system as opposed to our current system ?
And if so would that fix the system ?

dwmcdos

Absolutely, but the money needs to be spent efficiently and intelligently.

somesoldiers

Should be no BIK on health insurance at least IMO

Markcheese

Is that going to be a chicken and egg scenario ??

As in you'd pay extra as long as the service was efficent now , but you're not going to pay both , and there's no guarantee they'll get the service running well on x time ..( or likely hood ever )
Then does everyone pay 2 grand extra ?

What if they've more or less got things running well in say cork and Galway ,but Dublin is still as clogged up as ever ? Would you pay then ?

Wanderer78

Health care systems are highly complex beasts, I'd imagine every system on the planet is problematic, and I'd say ours will always be problematic

Mantis Toboggan

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Health care systems are highly complex beasts, I'd imagine every system on the planet is problematic, and I'd say ours will always be problematic

Nothing will change as long as the HSE remains, it's not fit for purpose. Needs to be scraped.

Wanderer78

Mantis Toboggan wrote:

Nothing will change as long as the HSE remains, it's not fit for purpose. Needs to be scraped.

Scrapping a major body such as the HSE would probably introduce more chaos, it's very easy to say such a thing, but actually doing it.....

Mantis Toboggan

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Scrapping a major body such as the HSE would probably introduce more chaos, it's very easy to say such a thing, but actually doing it.....

Well then nothing will change, its a bottomless pit in terms of throwing money at it.

Wanderer78

Mantis Toboggan wrote:

Well then nothing will change, its a bottomless pit in terms of throwing money at it.

Very similar in other countries I'd imagine, keeping people alive seems to be important across the world

C0N0R

This may sound rather ignorant but I’m not currently in the country and don’t have any relations that are struggling to cope with the health service either patients or doctors/nurses, but what are the fundamental issues with the health service? And why can’t they be fixed, or how can they be fixed? An answer without it just saying people waiting on trolleys would be appreciated if possible.

Wanderer78

C0N0R wrote:

This may sound rather ignorant but I’m not currently in the country and don’t have any relations that are struggling to cope with the health service either patients or doctors/nurses, but what are the fundamental issues with the health service? And why can’t they be fixed, or how can they be fixed? An answer without it just saying people waiting on trolleys would be appreciated if possible.

Its hard to know where to begin, but adequate mental health and psychological supports effectively don't exist, but it's issues are long and complex, I don't think anyone knows what to do. Very long waiting lists, some for critical procedures

lisasimpson

We keep talking about more nurses and beds but we need more staff in other area. 2 examples of people close to me.1 in for pre op the day before having breast removed. Last part of pre op was a chest xray. As it was near 12 we were told go for coffee as the xray dep would be gone on lunch. No way should a dept fully close for lunch. In a previous job I worked in a dept where all the team couldnt go on lunch at the same time there had to be cover.
2. A friend needed a spinal tap done. Was suppose to have it on a thursday to be discharged after it. No one available and didnt get it done until the following monday. Spent all weekend in hospital as a bed blocker

BluePlanet

This thread is a waste.
We already have a plan called SlainteCare that all parties have backed in principle.
We just need the political will, and capital to implement over the next decade.

lisasimpson

BluePlanet wrote: »

This thread is a waste.
We already have a plan called SlainteCare that all parties have backed in principle.
We just need the political will, and capital to implement over the next decade.

Hello Roisin

Mantis Toboggan

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Very similar in other countries I'd imagine, keeping people alive seems to be important across the world

Yeah but our system is top heavy, too many chiefs and not enough Indians. People in offices on huge salaries twiddling their thumbs with little to no qualifications. Drafted in from the old health board system.

Outdated technology, poor systems and a lack of joined up thinking. A unionised workforce who resist change on a daily basis. Nothing will change as long as the current system remains.

Wanderer78

Mantis Toboggan wrote:

Outdated technology, poor systems and a lack of joined up thinking. A unionised workforce who resist change on a daily basis. Nothing will change as long as the current system remains.

You can be damn sure, it won't be solved on boards, nobody knows what to do here

is_that_so

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Nothing will change as long as the HSE remains, it's not fit for purpose. Needs to be scraped.

Harris and Reid agree with you. It is being scrapped in its current form. New version will be up and running next year, subject to government approval.

RobAMerc

I worked for the HSE for 3 years - what a total basket case, everyone bar non front line staff need to go and the whole organisation be rebooted
I watched as senior managers literally spent the whole day txting friends and drinking tea. Other senior managers hired multiple "aides" in order to use up budget and then left the aides watching youtube all day coz there was nothing for them to do.
I met an old acquaintance who was a senior manager in the Health Board, she told me she had never been removed when the HSE came in just replaced ! She was left in her post ( pretty much doing nothing )

What people may not understand is the HSE is simply a layer of management smeared over a bunch of fairly autonomous organisations based mainly around specialties. Each of those has in turn its own management structure, and internal organisational structures ( HR, IT etc ) and every one of those (without fail) have one purpose - keep themselves in a job by keeping the HSE out. The patient first ? My hole.

The HSE has 0 control over them and only really has the ability to gain some control when they have some leverage over them - such as a crisis.

Slainte Care is a pipe dream.( designed to line the pockets of the consultancies who helped define it ) The HSE will achieve nothing until the whole organisation is disbanded and a government with balls tackles the whole poisonous lot.

salonfire

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Health care systems are highly complex beasts, I'd imagine every system on the planet is problematic, and I'd say ours will always be problematic

What are you talking about?

The services offered by the private hospitals like the Beacon or the Mater are excellent.

votecounts

A lot of the problem is there too much middle management and they won't be touched without the unions going beserk.
Another problem is that how many times so you see in the news, that there is a facility built, eg a Hospice in Waterford but no money for staff.
Cardiac Care is 9-5 Monday to Friday in a lot of places, so don't dare have a heart attack outside these hours or you're fcuked
Public waiting lists for hip replacement and cateracts are way too long and this is why you had Indepedent TDs orgaising buses to belfast from cork/kerry.
I won't even start on the joke that is the care for people with disabilities, mental health issues and the elderly.

Graces7

Excellent appraisal. As anyone who has ever tried to get a serious formal complaint processed will attest. Myself included. Head meet multiple brick walls. Patient care ? They have never heard of it.

RobAMerc wrote: »

I worked for the HSE for 3 years - what a total basket case, everyone bar non front line staff need to go and the whole organisation be rebooted
I watched as senior managers literally spent the whole day txting friends and drinking tea. Other senior managers hired multiple "aides" in order to use up budget and then left the aides watching youtube all day coz there was nothing for them to do.
I met an old acquaintance who was a senior manager in the Health Board, she told me she had never been removed when the HSE came in just replaced ! She was left in her post ( pretty much doing nothing )

What people may not understand is the HSE is simply a layer of management smeared over a bunch of fairly autonomous organisations based mainly around specialties. Each of those has in turn its own management structure, and internal organisational structures ( HR, IT etc ) and every one of those (without fail) have one purpose - keep themselves in a job by keeping the HSE out. The patient first ? My hole.

The HSE has 0 control over them and only really has the ability to gain some control when they have some leverage over them - such as a crisis.

Slainte Care is a pipe dream.( designed to line the pockets of the consultancies who helped define it ) The HSE will achieve nothing until the whole organisation is disbanded and a government with balls tackles the whole poisonous lot.

If there is a grand coalition that they're talking about it might be an opportunity to dismantle the HSE..

ChikiChiki

RobAMerc wrote: »

I worked for the HSE for 3 years - what a total basket case, everyone bar non front line staff need to go and the whole organisation be rebooted
I watched as senior managers literally spent the whole day txting friends and drinking tea. Other senior managers hired multiple "aides" in order to use up budget and then left the aides watching youtube all day coz there was nothing for them to do.
I met an old acquaintance who was a senior manager in the Health Board, she told me she had never been removed when the HSE came in just replaced ! She was left in her post ( pretty much doing nothing )

What people may not understand is the HSE is simply a layer of management smeared over a bunch of fairly autonomous organisations based mainly around specialties. Each of those has in turn its own management structure, and internal organisational structures ( HR, IT etc ) and every one of those (without fail) have one purpose - keep themselves in a job by keeping the HSE out. The patient first ? My hole.

The HSE has 0 control over them and only really has the ability to gain some control when they have some leverage over them - such as a crisis.

Slainte Care is a pipe dream.( designed to line the pockets of the consultancies who helped define it ) The HSE will achieve nothing until the whole organisation is disbanded and a government with balls tackles the whole poisonous lot.

Ard you saying the HSE does not have standardised HR and IT systems/processes?

ChikiChiki

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Health care systems are highly complex beasts, I'd imagine every system on the planet is problematic, and I'd say ours will always be problematic

This is a myth. I hate this defeatist attitude that is constantly trotted out.

all about the mane

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Health care systems are highly complex beasts, I'd imagine every system on the planet is problematic, and I'd say ours will always be problematic

Nothing that a few pre-election empty promises can’t fix!

kevthegaff

Would u believe I'd work more at childrens/adults eating habits, fast food, drinking. Sport should be really pushed, big problem I read one day alot of young parents are overweight prob due to both working, long commutes and fast food. Societal changes are needed which would reduce lifestyle issues which burden the healthcare system

Snow Garden

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Yeah but our system is top heavy, too many chiefs and not enough Indians. People in offices on huge salaries twiddling their thumbs with little to no qualifications. Drafted in from the old health board system.

Outdated technology, poor systems and a lack of joined up thinking. A unionised workforce who resist change on a daily basis. Nothing will change as long as the current system remains.

Correct. I worked in the HSE for just under 2 years and it's bloated management team were completely useless and obsessed with milking expenses. Many of their roles added zero value. The waste of money is staggering. Total bureaucracy. Very difficult to get any process improvements done.

quodec

So how did SF think they'd solve the health crisis then?

all about the mane

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If there is a grand coalition that they're talking about it might be an opportunity to dismantle the HSE..

It’s the only way it could be done. All parties buying in and taking the battle on. Never going to happen.

all about the mane

quodec wrote: »

So how did SF think they'd solve the health crisis then?

They didn’t but it sounds good.

Rodin

No discussion about health should start without addressing the health of the nation.

People need to do their bit. And they're not.

Obesity and lack or exercise are the biggest challenges facing the health service.

If you're not doing your bit to not be a burden on the system, you've no right to criticise waiting times/lists.