So according to the Sindo,its an FF-FG-Green-Grand coalition then ?

pjohnson

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well the electorate have spoken that is how the numbers pan out. You can at least comfort yourself that the planet will be saved. All those houses that will be built will be have great BER ratings. Oh and those evil non-hybrid motorists will be taxed to the hilt.

Would the student union politics of SF/PBP have worked better? Sure vote them in next time for the craic and see what happens.

They arent let in anyway. The old boys have it on lock.

Itssoeasy

It seems last night the greens were getting twitchy about the talk of them being government.

gormdubhgorm

pjohnson wrote: »

They arent let in anyway. The old boys have it on lock.

But it is not just the 'old boys' they are the ones the electorate want.

Again turning SF speak on it's head FG, FF and Labour's mandate was based on NOT going in with SF that is 1.1m popular vote of the electorate.
SF just have to take it on the chin and respect the mandate given by the electorate.

By the way - read mandate as ('mon-day-ate') if it helps!

Billcarson

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well the electorate have spoken that is how the numbers pan out. You can at least comfort yourself that the planet will be saved. All those houses that will be built will be have great BER ratings. Oh and those evil non-hybrid motorists will be taxed to the hilt.

Would the student union politics of SF/PBP have worked better? Sure vote them in next time for the craic and see what happens.

57% didn't vote for ff or fg ,so indeed the electorate did speak.

Billcarson

Who has the mandate?
Let's remind ourselves again of who the people gave the mandate for Gov't to...
Took me a while, but going by this statistic of the General Election, proves who the people gave a mandate for Government to. Here's a graph you wont find on RTE ��

Finna fail 83 candidates
won 37 seats and 1 automatic seat ,
Not 1 voted in on first count ,
1 voted in on 2nd count
1 voted in on 4th count
2 voted in on 5th count
5 voted in on 6th count
3 voted in on 7th count
11 voted in on 8th count
2 voted in on 9th count
3 voted in on 10th count
5 voted in on 11th count
1 voted in on 12th count
1 voted in on 14th count
2 voted in on 15th count
Leader Michael Martin in on 6th count
20.9% of 1st Preference Vote

Fine geal 82 candidates
Won 35 seats
2 voted in on 1st count
3 voted in on 5th count
3 voted in on 6th count
2 voted in on 7th count
10 voted in on 8th count
3 voted in on 9th count
6 voted in on 10th count
2 voted in on 11th count
1 voted in on 13th count
1 voted in on 14th count
2 voted in on 15th count
Leader Leo varadkar voted in on 5th count
22.2%of 1st Preference Vote

Shin Fein 42 candidates
Won 37 seats
27 voted in on 1st count
3 voted in on 2nd count
3 voted in on 6th count
3 voted in on 8th count
1 voted in on 10th count
Leader Mary Lou McDonald voted in on first count
24.5%of 1st Preference Vote

Sinn Féin won the election

Sinn Féin got the mandate from the people....
No FF/FG Labour Greens ect.......

Only a numbers stat I know but they are thanking their lucky stars for transfers. It's a crying shame

First Up

Billcarson wrote:

57% didn't vote for ff or fg ,so indeed the electorate did speak.

Elections are decided by who people voted for, not by who they didn't vote for.

LeinsterDub

Billcarson wrote: »

Who has the mandate?
Let's remind ourselves again of who the people gave the mandate for Gov't to...
Took me a while, but going by this statistic of the General Election, proves who the people gave a mandate for Government to. Here's a graph you wont find on RTE ��

Finna fail 83 candidates
won 37 seats and 1 automatic seat ,
Not 1 voted in on first count ,
1 voted in on 2nd count
1 voted in on 4th count
2 voted in on 5th count
5 voted in on 6th count
3 voted in on 7th count
11 voted in on 8th count
2 voted in on 9th count
3 voted in on 10th count
5 voted in on 11th count
1 voted in on 12th count
1 voted in on 14th count
2 voted in on 15th count
Leader Michael Martin in on 6th count
20.9% of 1st Preference Vote

Fine geal 82 candidates
Won 35 seats
2 voted in on 1st count
3 voted in on 5th count
3 voted in on 6th count
2 voted in on 7th count
10 voted in on 8th count
3 voted in on 9th count
6 voted in on 10th count
2 voted in on 11th count
1 voted in on 13th count
1 voted in on 14th count
2 voted in on 15th count
Leader Leo varadkar voted in on 5th count
22.2%of 1st Preference Vote

Shin Fein 42 candidates
Won 37 seats
27 voted in on 1st count
3 voted in on 2nd count
3 voted in on 6th count
3 voted in on 8th count
1 voted in on 10th count
Leader Mary Lou McDonald voted in on first count
24.5%of 1st Preference Vote

Sinn Féin won the election

Sinn Féin got the mandate from the people....
No FF/FG Labour Greens ect.......

Only a numbers stat I know but they are thanking their lucky stars for transfers. It's a crying shame

Talk of mandates is ridiculous a party could get 79 seats and a rainbow collation of everyone else with 80 would be entitled to form a government.

JP Liz V1

Augeo wrote: »

SF would worsen housing..... They encourage wasters.

Eoin O' Brein has some good ideas for housing, I think even other party TDs agreed with him

Feisar

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Talk of mandates is ridiculous a party could get 79 seats and a rainbow collation of everyone else with 80 would be entitled to form a government.

It's like whining about Hillary winning the popular vote.

IngazZagni

Billcarson wrote: »

Who has the mandate?
Let's remind ourselves again of who the people gave the mandate for Gov't to...
Took me a while, but going by this statistic of the General Election, proves who the people gave a mandate for Government to. Here's a graph you wont find on RTE ��

Finna fail 83 candidates
won 37 seats and 1 automatic seat ,
Not 1 voted in on first count ,
1 voted in on 2nd count
1 voted in on 4th count
2 voted in on 5th count
5 voted in on 6th count
3 voted in on 7th count
11 voted in on 8th count
2 voted in on 9th count
3 voted in on 10th count
5 voted in on 11th count
1 voted in on 12th count
1 voted in on 14th count
2 voted in on 15th count
Leader Michael Martin in on 6th count
20.9% of 1st Preference Vote

Fine geal 82 candidates
Won 35 seats
2 voted in on 1st count
3 voted in on 5th count
3 voted in on 6th count
2 voted in on 7th count
10 voted in on 8th count
3 voted in on 9th count
6 voted in on 10th count
2 voted in on 11th count
1 voted in on 13th count
1 voted in on 14th count
2 voted in on 15th count
Leader Leo varadkar voted in on 5th count
22.2%of 1st Preference Vote

Shin Fein 42 candidates
Won 37 seats
27 voted in on 1st count
3 voted in on 2nd count
3 voted in on 6th count
3 voted in on 8th count
1 voted in on 10th count
Leader Mary Lou McDonald voted in on first count
24.5%of 1st Preference Vote

Sinn Féin won the election

Sinn Féin got the mandate from the people....
No FF/FG Labour Greens ect.......

Only a numbers stat I know but they are thanking their lucky stars for transfers. It's a crying shame

It’s not quite that simple. If SF had fielded 85 candidates it would start to look more similar. 2nd, 3rd and 4th counts often only distribute minuscule amounts of votes from the nobody’s. All it shows is very poor vote management from SF but with the polls the way they were before you can’t blame them at all.
For example if Varadkar didn’t bother having a running mate he would have got over the quota on the first count. They didn’t because they are trying to build up an additional candidate and felt he’d be safe either way.

Dravokivich

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The vast majority of journeys inside the canals are already made my means other than car. A sizeable proportion of the remaining minority have PT options but don't use them. It's time to stop pandering to this minority and build liveable cities

What's non essential? And why have the canals become your boundary, when the city limits are outside of them?

I will be a bad time to be in government as the effects of Brexit start to be felt.

EU ministers will be meeting this week to try and figure out how they will plug the huge financial hole left by Brexit. €75 billion will have to be found.

I wonder what cuts will be made to the budget in Ireland?

Itssoeasy

Billcarson wrote: »

Who has the mandate?
Let's remind ourselves again of who the people gave the mandate for Gov't to...
Took me a while, but going by this statistic of the General Election, proves who the people gave a mandate for Government to. Here's a graph you wont find on RTE ��

Finna fail 83 candidates
won 37 seats and 1 automatic seat ,
Not 1 voted in on first count ,
1 voted in on 2nd count
1 voted in on 4th count
2 voted in on 5th count
5 voted in on 6th count
3 voted in on 7th count
11 voted in on 8th count
2 voted in on 9th count
3 voted in on 10th count
5 voted in on 11th count
1 voted in on 12th count
1 voted in on 14th count
2 voted in on 15th count
Leader Michael Martin in on 6th count
20.9% of 1st Preference Vote

Fine geal 82 candidates
Won 35 seats
2 voted in on 1st count
3 voted in on 5th count
3 voted in on 6th count
2 voted in on 7th count
10 voted in on 8th count
3 voted in on 9th count
6 voted in on 10th count
2 voted in on 11th count
1 voted in on 13th count
1 voted in on 14th count
2 voted in on 15th count
Leader Leo varadkar voted in on 5th count
22.2%of 1st Preference Vote

Shin Fein 42 candidates
Won 37 seats
27 voted in on 1st count
3 voted in on 2nd count
3 voted in on 6th count
3 voted in on 8th count
1 voted in on 10th count
Leader Mary Lou McDonald voted in on first count
24.5%of 1st Preference Vote

Sinn Féin won the election

Sinn Féin got the mandate from the people....
No FF/FG Labour Greens ect.......

Only a numbers stat I know but they are thanking their lucky stars for transfers. It's a crying shame

Well then let Sinn Fein go and form a government then. Work away as SF have said there preferred option is to not have FF or FG in government.

JP Liz V1

Deleted User wrote: »

I will be a bad time to be in government as the effects of Brexit start to be felt.

EU ministers will be meeting this week to try and figure out how they will plug the huge financial hole left by Brexit. €75 billion will have to be found.

I wonder what cuts will be made to the budget in Ireland?

Politicians salaries and pensions cut could be a start

LeinsterDub

Dravokivich wrote: »

What's non essential? And why have the canals become your boundary, when the city limits are outside of them?

I said nothing about essential. The canals are highly accessible by PT

Dravokivich

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I said nothing about essential. The canals are highly accessible by PT

It's what you choose to respond too, but not to answer...

LeinsterDub

Dravokivich wrote: »

It's what you choose to respond too, but not to answer...

The vast majority are non essential or at least less important than people taking other modes

omega man

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Well then let Sinn Fein go and form a government then. Work away as SF have said there preferred option is to not have FF or FG in government.

They won’t answer this. There is no mandate.

I see that Leo has just confirmed that FG would prefer to stay as opposition and have urged SF to try and renegotiate with other parties to form a government, and if that fails, for FF to try and do something. (its in the Indo)

They can see whats coming in the next few years, I wouldn't blame them for wanting to stay out.

LeinsterDub

Deleted User wrote: »

I see that Leo has just confirmed that FG would prefer to stay as opposition and have urged SF to try and renegotiate with other parties to form a government, and if that fails, for FF to try and do something. (its in the Indo)

They can see whats coming in the next few years, I wouldn't blame them for wanting to stay out.

If FG are out the only other something is SF - FF or some form of S&C.

Loafing Oaf

Deleted User wrote: »

I see that Leo has just confirmed that FG would prefer to stay as opposition and have urged SF to try and renegotiate with other parties to form a government, and if that fails, for FF to try and do something. (its in the Indo)

But surely they know neither of these is a realistic possibility and if they maintain their current position they will be precipitating a general election, for which they will be held responsible?

“As I said during the election campaign, Fine Gael will not let down the State and Republic we founded. We are willing to consider participating in a government but only as a last resort, and only if we are wanted and needed.”

Well it is the last resort, and they are absolutely indispensable. What precisely he meant by "not letting down the State" only Leo himself knows...

smurgen

Billcarson wrote: »

Who has the mandate?
Let's remind ourselves again of who the people gave the mandate for Gov't to...
Took me a while, but going by this statistic of the General Election, proves who the people gave a mandate for Government to. Here's a graph you wont find on RTE ��

Finna fail 83 candidates
won 37 seats and 1 automatic seat ,
Not 1 voted in on first count ,
1 voted in on 2nd count
1 voted in on 4th count
2 voted in on 5th count
5 voted in on 6th count
3 voted in on 7th count
11 voted in on 8th count
2 voted in on 9th count
3 voted in on 10th count
5 voted in on 11th count
1 voted in on 12th count
1 voted in on 14th count
2 voted in on 15th count
Leader Michael Martin in on 6th count
20.9% of 1st Preference Vote

Fine geal 82 candidates
Won 35 seats
2 voted in on 1st count
3 voted in on 5th count
3 voted in on 6th count
2 voted in on 7th count
10 voted in on 8th count
3 voted in on 9th count
6 voted in on 10th count
2 voted in on 11th count
1 voted in on 13th count
1 voted in on 14th count
2 voted in on 15th count
Leader Leo varadkar voted in on 5th count
22.2%of 1st Preference Vote

Shin Fein 42 candidates
Won 37 seats
27 voted in on 1st count
3 voted in on 2nd count
3 voted in on 6th count
3 voted in on 8th count
1 voted in on 10th count
Leader Mary Lou McDonald voted in on first count
24.5%of 1st Preference Vote

Sinn Féin won the election

Sinn Féin got the mandate from the people....
No FF/FG Labour Greens ect.......

Only a numbers stat I know but they are thanking their lucky stars for transfers. It's a crying shame

That's startling when you lay it out like that.

Loafing Oaf

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

But surely they know neither of these is a realistic possibility and if they maintain their current position they will be precipitating a general election, for which they will be held responsible?



Well it is the last resort, and they are absolutely indispensable. What precisely he meant by "not letting down the State" only Leo himself knows...

yes, you can be sure that they are well aware of this. Its their way of saying 'you can go and do what you want now, you have voted us out.'

Article here

“Fine Gael is preparing for opposition. The country will need a strong and effective opposition. I relish the challenge of leading it,” Mr Varadkar said last night.

The Taoiseach again urged Sinn Féin to resume efforts to put together a left-leaning coalition with smaller parties and Independents as the Dáil numbers made this possible. He said if that did not work out, Fianna Fáil should work with the Green Party, Labour, Social Democrats and Independents to forge a coalition.

We could end up like Stormont yet.

FrancieBrady

The cynical thing is that FG know exactly where this is all heading. Of course they will cobble together a deal to cling to power of some sort.
They will just reverse the mantra of FF and Martin...'for the sake of the country we will enter this arrangement' blah blah, rinse and repeat.

Donovan was sent out to insult all and sundry today in his charming guttersnipe arrogant way and you would not be doing that if there was another election in the offing. Or are FG that stupid?

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The cynical thing is that FG know exactly where this is all heading. Of course they will cobble together a deal to cling to power of some sort.
They will just reverse the mantra of FF and Martin...'for the sake of the country we will enter this arrangement' blah blah, rinse and repeat.

Donovan was sent out to insult all and sundry today in his charming guttersnipe arrogant way and you would not be doing that if there was another election in the offing. Or are FG that stupid?

Im not sure if you saw the article in my last post.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/fine-gael-tds-revolt-over-grand-coalition-38962295.html

It looks as if FG are pretty sure they want to be in opposition this time around.

Idbatterim

I think fg would prefer opposition, because you can’t sort out the issues here, without getting your hands dirty and they certainly dont want to do it ...

Idbatterim

Idbatterim wrote: »

I think fg would prefer opposition, because you can’t sort out the issues here, without getting your hands dirty and they certainly dont want to do it ...

I mentioned earlier in the thread that EU officials are meeting this week to try and figure out where they are going to get the €75 billion to plug the hole that Brexit has left. This will seriously affect the remaining contributing countries, of which we are one.

Maybe FG can see the writing on the wall and will decide to stay out and let someone else be the subject of the public's wrath when the cuts happen.

piplip87

Billcarson wrote: »

Who has the mandate?
Let's remind ourselves again of who the people gave the mandate for Gov't to...
Took me a while, but going by this statistic of the General Election, proves who the people gave a mandate for Government to. Here's a graph you wont find on RTE ��

Finna fail 83 candidates
won 37 seats and 1 automatic seat ,
Not 1 voted in on first count ,
1 voted in on 2nd count
1 voted in on 4th count
2 voted in on 5th count
5 voted in on 6th count
3 voted in on 7th count
11 voted in on 8th count
2 voted in on 9th count
3 voted in on 10th count
5 voted in on 11th count
1 voted in on 12th count
1 voted in on 14th count
2 voted in on 15th count
Leader Michael Martin in on 6th count
20.9% of 1st Preference Vote

Fine geal 82 candidates
Won 35 seats
2 voted in on 1st count
3 voted in on 5th count
3 voted in on 6th count
2 voted in on 7th count
10 voted in on 8th count
3 voted in on 9th count
6 voted in on 10th count
2 voted in on 11th count
1 voted in on 13th count
1 voted in on 14th count
2 voted in on 15th count
Leader Leo varadkar voted in on 5th count
22.2%of 1st Preference Vote

Shin Fein 42 candidates
Won 37 seats
27 voted in on 1st count
3 voted in on 2nd count
3 voted in on 6th count
3 voted in on 8th count
1 voted in on 10th count
Leader Mary Lou McDonald voted in on first count
24.5%of 1st Preference Vote

Sinn Féin won the election

Sinn Féin got the mandate from the people....
No FF/FG Labour Greens ect.......

Only a numbers stat I know but they are thanking their lucky stars for transfers. It's a crying shame

Your copy and pasted post proves nothing.

What you are leaving out is number of candidates per Constituency per party.

Take Cork South Central for example

FF got two elected here with a combined first preference vote of over 21,000. Yes Micheal Martin had to wait to be elected here. That signifies good vote management between the two candidates.

The SF candidate here got elected on the first count with 14,000. The winner here on first preference votes here is FF. This is Micheal Martin's Constituency.

There was so many SF TDS elected on first counts due to them running one candidate in large Constituencies.

The post in which you have copied and pasted bares no relevance in the proportional representation system. Even posting about Varadkar and him been elected in later count is irrelevant. He still came second in the popular vote in that Constituency and added to his running mates votes he was only about 2,000 voted behind the SF candidate.

The fact is at the end of the day numbers of seats dictate who wins elections and nothing else. In the regard FF won the election as they have more seats.

storker

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Someone has to pay for the forevahomes (it won't be genuine homeless i.e those on the streets getting them either)

You don't have to be on the street to be homeless.

JohnnyFlash

FG want to be in opposition. You’ll get the odd dissenting voice, but opposition is where the party feel they belong after the election.

The onus is on FF to hold their nose and do a deal with SF. Bring in the Green, the Soc Dems and a few independents to make it all a little more palatable.

Brexit and the EU trade deal is going to be brutal and bruising stuff. There’s also storm clouds appearing over the world economy. Need a strong government soon.

Let FG and Labour provide the opposition.