So according to the Sindo,its an FF-FG-Green-Grand coalition then ?

BarryD2

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The rehabilitation of FF is complete.

We haven't forgotten FFs role in the economic recession and that Martin was a minster at the time and senior member of the party.

But you also judge people by their actions and how they handle themselves. In that regard Micheál comes across as a decent, thoughtful & honourable man on the whole.

If you were to judge your heroes in SF by their actions and words, you'd be looking at three years of sitting on their arses up north, being elected but failing to represent their constituents in both the NI Assembly & Westminster, where in the latter case they might also have done us in the south, some use.

So, no contest.

SafeSurfer

BarryD2 wrote: »

We haven't forgotten FFs role in the economic recession and that Martin was a minster at the time and senior member of the party.

But you also judge people by their actions and how they handle themselves. In that regard Micheál comes across as a decent, thoughtful & honourable man on the whole.

If you were to judge your heroes in SF by their actions and words, you'd be looking at three years of sitting on their arses up north, being elected but failing to represent their constituents in both the NI Assembly & Westminster, where in the latter case they might also have done us in the south, some use.

So, no contest.

While all the time denying they were even in the pre crash cabinet!

LeinsterDub

Something , something SF left led coalition despite not having the numbers. Meanwhile FG are at this
https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1229702338807566341

FrancieBrady

BarryD2 wrote: »

We haven't forgotten FFs role in the economic recession and that he was a minster at the time and senior member of the party.

But you also judge people by their actions and how they handle themselves. In that regard Micheál comes across as a decent, thoughtful & honourable man on the whole.

If you were to judge your heroes in SF by their actions and words, you'd be looking at three years of sitting on their arses up north, being elected but failing to represent their constituents in both the NI Assembly & Westminster, where in the latter case they might also have done us in the south, some use.

So, no contest.

I don't have 'hero's'. I left that concept behind when I left adolescence. Also, I don't have a high and mighty disdain for the electorate the indentured supporters of the power swap parties have here.
SF's support in the north seem happy in the main with their decision to leave the executive because it had become untenable and the GFA had stagnated to a stop, when it was meant't to be a process.

That FF and FG threw themselves into the same denigration and abandonment of the 'process' speaks for itself to be honest.

I give them no credit at all for eventually mollycoddling Unionists back into the process. That only happened when the Tories discarded them.

FrancieBrady

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Something , something SF left led coalition despite not having the numbers. Mean while FG are at this
https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1229702338807566341

Fair play to the SD's.

is_that_so

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Fair play to the SD's.

More toy throwing by the two of them, yeah what's new. It's a good out if they do find themselves in some alliance with FG and they can claim they put manners on them! As I said the Greens are the only ones going about this with any dignity and discretion. Maybe others can learn from that.

Eric Cartman

is_that_so wrote: »

More toy throwing by the two of them, yeah what's new. It's a good out if they do find themselves in some alliance with FG and they can claim they put manners on them! As I said the Greens are the only ones going about this with any dignity and discretion. Maybe others can learn from that.

if by dignity and discretion you mean 'we will work with anyone who lets us tax the middle class'

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Fair play to the SD's.

Theres definitely some sort of disconnect at FG party quarters when they're inviting parties for a cup of time wasting tea
What they should have done is write to them saying if you want to discuss anything, the door is open and leave it at that

My money is still on FF SF and the greens plus the two Healy Raes and Matty McGrath
I'm not convinced SF want FG to be the lead opposition party though for obvious reasons or to be in government yet

is_that_so

Eric Cartman wrote: »

if by dignity and discretion you mean 'we will work with anyone who lets us tax the middle class'

Nah, I'm talking about not "donutting" the nearest mic to make pronouncements on what's not happening. We know what they want and they don't have any clear objection to any arrangement save those that will not allow them to achieve some objectives. Whoever they might end up working with will not accede to all their demands.

FrancieBrady

is_that_so wrote: »

Nah, I'm talking about not "donutting" the nearest mic to make pronouncements on what's not happening.

Of course precious Leo wouldn't be doing the like of that.

is_that_so

Mortelaro wrote: »

Theres definitely some sort of disconnect at FG party quarters when they're inviting parties for a cup of time wasting tea
What they should have done is write to them saying if you want to discuss anything, the door is open and leave it at that

My money is still on FF SF and the greens plus the two Healy Raes and Matty McGrath
I'm not convinced SF want FG to be the lead opposition party though for obvious reasons or to be in government yet

I get the impression there's a whole load of Grand Old Duke of York carry-on at present by parties. Only a few have clear stances, FG, PBP and Labour so dropping in for tea is more about optics. FG might review if things evolve but opposition it is for them.

is_that_so

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Of course precious Leo wouldn't be doing the like of that.

As I say Greens only.

LeinsterDub

Eric Cartman wrote: »

if by dignity and discretion you mean 'we will work with anyone who lets us tax the middle class'

Just a gentle reminder that Eric considers the middle class to be people earning 200k

Eric Cartman wrote: »

tax cuts for the working. Just would be nice if there was anyone out to help the worker. those on 30-200k a year are absolutely shafted royally here and its completely unfair.

machaseh

I'd like to see SF in government, but at this point in time it is not looking very likely.

Eric Cartman

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Just a gentle reminder that Eric considers the middle class to be people earning 200k

they are.... people on 200k are not 'the rich' , sure thats still only enough to buy a 4 bed semi in dundrum, hardly Sorento road money.

LeinsterDub

Eric Cartman wrote: »

they are.... people on 200k are not 'the rich' , sure thats still only enough to buy a 4 bed semi in dundrum, hardly Sorento road money.

They are in the top .5% of PAYE earners.

gormdubhgorm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

SF lost control of DCC in the LE and every LA is being slowly bled of funding by central government. But who needs facts right?

So what did SF actually do when they had control in the LE?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/elections/sinn-fein-to-take-control-of-dublin-city-council-30303069.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Irish_local_elections

Five years of non-stop improvement? Or are any negatives still FF and FG's fault somehow?

After the 2019 election it was the first time FF became the largest party in the council since 1999

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Dublin_City_Council_election

Plus it is interesting to note on the issue of reducing the local property tax all other parties agreed except Labour and the Greens

https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2019/0923/1077753-dublin-city-tax/

Both believed public services should be prioritised so the ogres of FF actually agree with SF on some issues. But who needs facts, as you say.

gormdubhgorm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Something , something SF left led coalition despite not having the numbers. Meanwhile FG are at this
https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1229702338807566341

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Fair play to the SD's.

Interesting tactic by them trying to boost thier popularity while clearly willing to get in with any party if given the chance.
Either way it does thier national profile no harm a win-win.

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a man, my son! fine women leaders!?

Eric Cartman

LeinsterDub wrote: »

They are in the top .5% of PAYE earners.

firstly, a lot of them would be sole traders or have other arrangements to get paid so represent a lot more people.

theres 78,000 millionaires on this island. Even thats becoming.....common....

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Interesting tactic by them trying to boost thier popularity while clearly willing to get in with any party if given the chance.
Either way it does thier national profile no harm a win-win.

Telling a child to stop huffing as it will do them no good is as good a tactic as tactics go IMO.

IngazZagni

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Fair play to the SD's.

How do they know this without even having a meeting though? Surely they should at least sit down and talk and if they were correct then they can come out with that statement afterwards. Same political mind games from the SocDems as everyone else.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Telling a child to stop huffing as it will do them no good is as good a tactic as tactics go IMO.

I still think it will be as the OP suggests a Green FF FG coalition they are the closest policy wise, thier is not as much unsavory baggage as the other choices.

Leo must be laughing his head off. It will end up being ah since your stuck and the country needs help FG will go in.

But it is not lost on me, that if SF were the parent who were able to discipline thier children more and keep them under control for both minor and serious offences, this stand off would never have arisen.
But yet SF seem utterly bemused as to why!

mattser

machaseh wrote: »

I'd like to see SF in government, but at this point in time it is not looking very likely.

Wouldn't we all, but the problem is they don't do responsibility.

LeinsterDub

Eric Cartman wrote: »

theres 78,000 millionaires on this island. Even thats becoming.....common....

Are you opposed to taxing them more?

LeinsterDub

IngazZagni wrote: »

How do they know this without even having a meeting though? Surely they should at least sit down and talk and if they were correct then they can come out with that statement afterwards. Same political mind games from the SocDems as everyone else.

Because they have access to the news? https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0217/1115732-government-formation/

LeinsterDub

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

So what did SF actually do when they had control in the LE?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/elections/sinn-fein-to-take-control-of-dublin-city-council-30303069.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Irish_local_elections

Five years of non-stop improvement? Or are any negatives still FF and FG's fault somehow?

After the 2019 election it was the first time FF became the largest party in the council since 1999

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Dublin_City_Council_election

Plus it is interesting to note on the issue of reducing the local property tax all other parties agreed except Labour and the Greens

https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2019/0923/1077753-dublin-city-tax/

Both believed public services should be prioritised so the ogres of FF actually agree with SF on some issues. But who needs facts, as you say.

I never contended SF did much, just corrected your error. In Dublin SF and FG have a lot of answer for

IngazZagni

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Because they have access to the news? https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0217/1115732-government-formation/

Did you read the article? It also says hes putting his name forward to be Taoiseach and is talking to various parties but when pressed he said realistically they will be going into opposition.

gormdubhgorm

mattser wrote: »

Wouldn't we all, but the problem is they don't do responsibility.

SF would have one major problem if they did eventually get into government, they would not be able to use thier 'get out jail free' card they use when others refer to thier poor governance in NI.
They won't be able to say 'that's up in NI' don't mind that. They will probably have to go with line of not being able to bring the 'real change' they wanted because of a coalition.
This will give them a new veneer at least, as the excuses will begin to sound like those from other democratic parties in the ROI.

LeinsterDub

IngazZagni wrote: »

Did you read the article? It also says hes putting his name forward to be Taoiseach and is talking to various parties but when pressed he said realistically they will be going into opposition.

They are attempting to have their cake and eat it

IngazZagni

LeinsterDub wrote: »

They are attempting to have their cake and eat it

Welcome to politics. They're all at it.