So according to the Sindo,its an FF-FG-Green-Grand coalition then ?

Jinglejangle69

LeinsterDub wrote: »

So we shouldn't t ask or want for better is your point?

Hey everyone wants more and better in all walks of life.

Doesnt mean you get it or are entitled to it.

LeinsterDub

Mortelaro wrote: »

They did deliver then though and Bertie with Mary Harney got back in,in 2007..


Spell out these reforms please
Nobody seems to be any the wiser on the details of this other than soundbytism's

Single payer system. No private consultants taking up resources. Get international experts in to implement reforms

LeinsterDub

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Hey everyone wants more and better in all walks of life.

Doesnt mean you get it or are entitled to it.

I never claimed to be entitled to anything.

The Rape of Lucretia

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

You live in one of the last great social democracies in the world.

The fairest tax system in Europe
The highest pension and social welfare in Europe
Almost free third level education.
World class health care (true, despite the narrative)
Etc
Etc

People actually don’t have a clue how good they have it. You are the 1%. You are the elite. You are luckier than almost anyone else on this planet.

This is indeed true. The narrative doesn't suit some parties though. Particularly those with a 32 Ireland agenda above all else, who are willing to distort and misinform, to convince people they don't have it so good. Fortunately, a majority does not buy this moonshine, and votes for more reasonable, honest, less terrorist, and more competent parties.

bcklschaps

If this comes to pass.... Eg. FF + FG + G.

It will finally give this country what most other democracies already have. I.e. A Right leaning conservative grouping and a Left leaning liberal grouping

Instead of what we have had for 100 yrs ...which was two Right wing conservative parties trying to differentiate themselves from each other with Civil war rhetoric and with token liberal agenda items.

pjohnson

Guess the cynics were right when they said it was pointless voting for anyone other than the big two.

Mortelaro

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Single payer system. No private consultants taking up resources. Get international experts in to implement reforms

What reforms?
You're not just light on detail, you've none
I asked you upthread for your solutions, not the party sound bytes we all grow so used to hearing that some of us spout them ourselves
Private consultants dont care about being turned out of public hospitals as half the country have vhi or other

So now you've got rid of the good consultants, you add them to the ever growing list of recruitments needed

Money money money
A lot needs to be found to encourage enough nurses to work here never mind more consultants

tipptom

Michael Martin,"people have obviously voted for change"

Goes straight back into government with FG.

Delighted,SF should never have even talked to the most corrupt party in the history of the state.

Let them back into government to enrich the likes of Owen O Callaghan and Denis O Brien even more because this is in their DNA since the foundation of the state and they cant help it.

They will both be wiped out in the next election and are already in freefall in the past three elctions as the ordinary people have got together and organised it that the their transfers were very valuable in killing them off.

The people will be even more organised come the next election with hopefully a new party to hoover up the transfers and there will be a mass exodus of FF/FG TDs bowing out before the next election anyway with nothing to replace them.

LeinsterDub

LeinsterDub wrote: »

So that would be 0 taxes you can name.

Yeah they’ll introduce none because I can’t name the exact ones now. Catch yourself on, this isn’t Liverpool v Man Utd.

I Am The Law

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

You live in one of the last great social democracies in the world.

The fairest tax system in Europe
The highest pension and social welfare in Europe
Almost free third level education.
World class health care (true, despite the narrative)
Etc
Etc

People actually don’t have a clue how good they have it. You are the 1%. You are the elite. You are luckier than almost anyone else on this planet.

I'm confused, who are you talking to here, Denmark, Germany, Sweden?

The Rape of Lucretia

bcklschaps wrote: »

If this comes to pass.... Eg. FF + FG + G.

It will finally give this country what most other democracies already have. I.e. A Right leaning conservative party and a Left leaning liberal party.

Instead of what we have had for 100 yrs ...which was two Right wing conservative parties trying to differentiate themselves from each other with Civil war rhetoric and with token liberal agenda items.

They weren't really right wing though. They were as centrist as you get. All things to all people in a very homogenious society compared to other European countries.
Talk of them being the parties of landlords, the rich, or big business, is nonsense. Its an attempt to create an issue and distinction where none exists. Its why even when overall much poorer than today, even in the past, a true Labour or socialist movement never gathered any steam. Ireland simply has no need for a left in its classical sense.

Idbatterim

This is a beautiful, beautiful sight! the FFG rats, backed into the corner and SF holding the gun to their head (try another few years of doing nothing, they will be obliterated at the ballot boxes)! the absolute irony and FFG are going to have to sort out issues, they dont want to sort, because it will hurt themselves and their cronies! And its not even SF who will now have to do the dirty work, FFG are going to have to do it all themselves or face obliteration! what an outcome!!!

Their duopoly which facilitated them doing noting, has come undone! Sorry, they would sort out the pensioners every budget, they did do that, in a shameless vote grab, buying off the most secure in society! Well done to all of the working people, who like myself voted SF. When FFG are forced now to address issues, you FFG voters can thank us later...

Idbatterim

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

You live in one of the last great social democracies in the world.

The fairest tax system in Europe
The highest pension and social welfare in Europe
Almost free third level education.
World class health care (true, despite the narrative)
Etc
Etc

People actually don’t have a clue how good they have it. You are the 1%. You are the elite. You are luckier than almost anyone else on this planet.

the fairest tax system as decided by who? the majority benefitting from the middle to high income earners being screwed here. Working poor hit with a marginal rate of FIFTY percent. Scaremongering over those who could and should pay more, possibly leaving. My staff turn down extra hours as they would lose FIFTY percent of it on income tax and usc. Yet FFG are telling us, they are pro business and enterprise?! World class health care, I only saw that point now, wouldnt have bothered with the reply, now knowing, its a blatant troll!

The Rape of Lucretia

Some certainly trying desperately to find the silver lining. Cheering that the opposition are in government takes a very special logical contortion.

is_that_so

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Perhaps but what long term changes or improvements did they deliver? And note I'm not talking about social changes

Well Lemass set up the education system you came through, shook off our protectionist attitude and overdependence on agriculture, which in turn laid the foundations for the FDI model we still value along with our path to EEC membership. The 94-97 coalition were the first to steer us towards the low unemployment and decent growth model, they had a budget surplus and gave us the 12.5% CT.

Idbatterim

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Some certainly trying desperately to find the silver lining. Cheering that the opposition are in government takes a very special logical contortion.

FFG now have to change or face obliteration and they will have to do stuff, they never wanted to do! Absolutely top notch result! I think even if SF won a few more seats, FFG still wouldnt have done business with them, it probably wouldnt have changed much...

Listen I dont think SF are saviours by any means, but FFG and their **** governance, well something had to be done about it, and it has. The only tool at our disposal, was used...

Now lets hope a new centre right party forms before the next election and remove the grip of death the axis of failure, has on this state...

suicide_circus

Idbatterim wrote: »

FFG now have to change or face obliteration and they will have to do stuff, they never wanted to do! Absolutely top notch result! I think even if SF won a few more seats, FFG still wouldnt have done business with them, it probably wouldnt have changed much...

Listen I dont think SF are saviours by any means, but FFG and their **** governance, well something had to be done about it, and it has. The only tool at our disposal, was used...

Now lets hope a new centre right party forms before the next election and remove the grip of death the axis of failure, has on this state...

well hopefully FFG got an awful fright in this election and will try and steal some of SF's clothes in terms of housing, childcare etc.

Mortelaro

Idbatterim wrote: »

FFG now have to change or face obliteration and they will .

That's just rubbish
50 or 60k new houses per annum because you or the economy has the money to do so and investing in child care and hospital recruitment isnt a change,its building on reality
Voters are that fickle and rightly so
Give them what they want and they reward

The vote left transfer left depends on failure and haha 2 things if they do fail,theyd deserve annihilation alright given the economy can do a lot of things it couldn't here to fore and 5 years is plenty to see a lot of fruits and 2nd they're not that stupid

Idbatterim

suicide_circus wrote: »

well hopefully FFG got an awful fright in this election and will try and steal some of SF's clothes in terms of housing, childcare etc.

the below is a premium article on independent.ie , but take a read of just the bit I posted. "we didnt see the appetite for change" I mean politics is their lives, they have the internet and mass media at their disposal, they have their spin doctors etc. These are they types of delusional MORONS running the show and we wonder why things dont change?

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/sinn-feins-surge-a-dose-of-reality-for-those-at-fine-gael-and-fianna-fail-who-saw-ruling-as-a-right-38957495.html


Sinn Féin's surge a dose of reality for those at Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil who saw ruling as a right


Getting the first glimpses of the damage done to the political establishment on Sunday, Fine Gael General Secretary Tom Curran had a line that said so much. On RTÉ, as the left surged, he noted: “None of us saw the appetite for change”.

It should have been an extraordinary comment yet, all over, his party were pulling back the curtains so we could see the smug behind the smokescreen of their slick and sickly PR. Beneath the fur coat and all of that.

Richard Bruton chatted down to those he’s supposed to work for, complaining: “Obviously when explaining detailed policy, against a move where people are saying let’s have change, the detail of that change is challenging”.

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

So with FG and the Greens, all we can expect is lots more taxes under the guise of saving the planet and meeting arbitrary targets - fantastic! :rolleyes:

They'll build some more social housing which won't benefit anyone who isn't on list somewhere (given the length of those lists), and the children's hospital and rural broadband will go ahead at ridiculous final costs.

It won't do much for those already living month to month and paying for everything here, unless you consider a fiver a week income tax cut (which will be more than absorbed in the aforementioned new taxes) something to shout about.

We would have been better off going back to the ballot box and trying to get a clear majority. I'm not convinced that SF would be the ones to get it - I think voter apathy and expectation that FF and FG would simply swap seats resulting in the low turnout is where SF's bounce came from.

I’m not sure about that- ask yourself, at the next GE, assuming this coalition will go ahead for now, who will the school children who were out on strike over the last year, vote for, as they will be eligible to vote at that stage- it won’t be FF or FG.
And if you’re in your 60s, pension age matters a lot to you- so again, your party loyalty may no longer be there.
FF lost their loyal voters 10/12 years ago - under 30s don’t hold party loyalty in as high regard as their parents did- so it wouldn’t surprise me if SF surpassed all parties significantly at the next GE- unless FF and FG completely rethink their brand, change their leaders and be very clever on what they say and how they say it from now on as social media is just so influential and they haven’t yet mastered that.

Idbatterim

Mortelaro wrote: »

That's just rubbish
50 or 60k new houses per annum because you or the economy has the money to do so and investing in child care and hospital recruitment isnt a change,its building on reality
Voters are that fickle and rightly so
Give them what they want and they reward

The vote left transfer left depends on failure and haha 2 things if they do fail,theyd deserve annihilation alright given the economy can do a lot of things it couldn't here to fore and 5 years is plenty to see a lot of fruits and 2and,they're not that stupid

of course they can afford it, they make choices, choices to have as good as no property tax, huge amounts outside of the income tax net, those in social housing getting it for as good as nothing. they can cut the rip off building related taxes, nobody needs to be given a subsidy. Do that and cut stamp duty on new builds, for FTB at the very least. If we can afford to give away free luxury accomodation, we can help the working poor, hit with a FIFTY percent marginal rate of tax, to get a roof over their head :rolleyes:

ThunbergsAreGo

A center government for what is a predominantly centrist country, makes sense

Idbatterim

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

A center government for what is a predominantly centrist country, makes sense

I cannot wait to see the next budget!!!

want to drop the pension age down to 65? no problem, just dont hike the pension by a fiver a week for the next five years as proposed by FFG. bet you there would be little difference in the cost of the two

garrettod

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

A center government for what is a predominantly centrist country, makes sense

While that's true, there are a few SF TDs that I would love to see play a part in what happens next - people like Pearse Doherty, Matt Carthy, Eoin O'Broin impress and I think, could do a lot of good if given a part to play.

A stronger, smarter, more capable FF, probably would have tried to poach some of those lads before now.

ThunbergsAreGo

Idbatterim wrote: »

I cannot wait to see the next budget!!!

First term in what should be a stable enough government, I'd expect it to be unspectacular.

Idbatterim

Idbatterim wrote: »

the below is a premium article on independent.ie , but take a read of just the bit I posted. "we didnt see the appetite for change" I mean politics is their lives, they have the internet and mass media at their disposal, they have their spin doctors etc. These are they types of delusional MORONS running the show and we wonder why things dont change?

Absolutely- and also, that quote from Richard Bruton around “explaining detailed policy”- that’s where the traditional parties are going wrong- the public LOVE upfront statements- 100,000 houses, let’s get Brexit done, Fake News- they don’t want the detail nor have the patience for it, nor in many cases will be able to understand it - pithy positive sound bytes are what gets votes these day- Trump knows it, Borris knows it, and indeed, Mary Lou knows it- “I’m not his Mammy”

is_that_so

garrettod wrote: »

While that's true, there are a few SF TDs that I would love to see play a part in what happens next - people like Pearse Doherty, Matt Carthy, Eoin O'Broin impress and I think, could do a lot of good if given a part to play.

A stronger, smarter, not capable FF, probably would have tried to poach some of those lads before now.

Instead they chose Stephen Donnelly!

The Rape of Lucretia

Idbatterim wrote: »

FFG now have to change or face obliteration.

This is surely blinding by wishful thinking than any rational analysis. Ireland is not going to turn left, let alone left to a party with an added patina of violence, terrorism, murder, and semtex experts.
They cannot be obliterated - there is simply far to great a majority in Ireland for whom they accurately represent their political leaning. I could see a merger on the cards alright, possibly in a couple of elections time. SF can become the dominant opposition, as more and more people forget the whiff of gunpowder, and a predominantly two party choice for government - the natural order of democracies- reestablished itself. And SF will likely, with a couple of smalies form à Govt some day. They will gravitate towards the centre though to achieve that. Blair's Labour style.

LeinsterDub

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Yeah they’ll introduce none because I can’t name the exact ones now. Catch yourself on, this isn’t Liverpool v Man Utd.

If you're sure they'll introduce additional taxes go look them up and prove me wrong. I'm unaware of any additional taxes proposed by the greens barring the carbon tax increase

garrettod

is_that_so wrote: »

Instead they chose Stephen Donnelly!

Think the wheels came off there, a few years back... Bouncing in and out of the SDs really took from him, not sure we'll ever see him at his best again.