So according to the Sindo,its an FF-FG-Green-Grand coalition then ?

threeball

NIMAN wrote: »

When I hear the problems in Ireland discussed I always wonder that perhaps this is the level we are at.
And it doesn't get better than this. Is that possible?

With the money Gov has to spend, without taxing the workers more, then perhaps it is.
It is, after all, a middle ground.

Yes it might take you 3 years to get that op done, or 6 months to see that specialist, but we aren't the best and not the worst in terms of the world standings.

You could be in the US and never see anyone unless you can pay.

And yes you could be in some utopian place like Cuba or Sweden or wherever and get great treatment but we aren't these places.

We are where we are and maybe this is as good as it gets.
If you have a real serious illness, you'll get treatment, you'll jump the queues. If its something non-life threatening, maybe we just need to accept you can't get it done next week?

I think people are completely unrealistic of what they can expect from a small country with an economy as open as ours. We have a seriously high standard of living considering our position and the fact we are just approaching our first centenary as an independent state. Countries that have been at this much longer are in far worse positions. The much vaunted Americans are carrying unimaginable debt and are controlled by the threat of Chinese and Saudi money exiting their economy. The Swedes can't even buy a pint without re-mortgaging the house. Every country has it's ups and downs. We have far more ups than downs.

threeball

Mortelaro wrote: »

That would not be the conventional definition and the markets agree going on the price of Irish bonds
Doubling national debt in such extreme circumstances as the crash when its allowed to be spread out ad infinitum with low repayments is not a problem at all

The Yanks are touching 105% of GDP and rising. If you want to see a country that needs to control spending it's that one.

omega man

Good news.

Any formal decision should be held back until SF confirm to the nation and their voters that they couldn’t deliver change by leading a left coalition because their was in fact was no mandate to do so.

RandomViewer

Augme wrote: »

You'd have thought the greens would have learnt there lesson from the last time out. I can't see this being popular with their voters at all. I was one of them and I'd really struggle to vote for them again in the next election.

Ramon Ryan would support Idi Amin if it meant a taste of power

NIMAN

threeball wrote: »

I think people are completely unrealistic of what they can expect from a small country with an economy as open as ours. We have a seriously high standard of living considering our position and the fact we are just approaching our first centenary as an independent state. Countries that have been at this much longer are in far worse positions. The much vaunted Americans are carrying unimaginable debt and are controlled by the threat of Chinese and Saudi money exiting their economy. The Swedes can't even buy a pint without re-mortgaging the house. Every country has it's ups and downs. We have far more ups than downs.

Couldn't agree more with you.

I hate it when people call our services 3rd world....they wanna go to a 3rd world country and see how easy they really have it.

LuasSimon

The rich of Ireland will be delighted to see Fine Gael get back in , lots of backslapping in South Dublin the week ahead .

tipptom

MadYaker wrote: »

The majority of the voters didn't vote for SF. Though you'd be forgiven for thinking that when you read some of the posts by SF supporters in this thread.

The majority of voter didn't vote for FF.
The majority of voters didn't vote for FG.

People voted for CHANGE,every party leader,TD,journalist has agreed with that on the numbers that was returned straight after this election.

FF/FG is not change so back to the people to enforce change to give us that change.

SF 24.5% UP 10%

FF 22.2 continuously DOWN 2.2

FG 20.9 continuously down 4.7

This was an unprecedented election in Irish history with a big protest from the people against FF/FG and only old comfortable fogeys keeping them in the game.

These old relics are dying out and FF/FG will have a host of TDs deserting before the next election to be replaced with the calibre of Eoghan Murphy,Simon Harris,Varadkar types which will put the nail in the coffin of FG/FF.

Every Party leader said after the election that the people have voted for change.

Typical FF/FG then to do the opposite of what they say and promise,cling on to power by diviying up between themselves and vote themselves into power despite what they admitted what they were told that people wanted change and STILL couldn't make up a government between them because of their spiral downward.

omega man

tipptom wrote: »

The majority of voter didn't vote for FF.
The majority of voters didn't vote for FG.

People voted for CHANGE,every party leader,TD,journalist has agreed with that on the numbers that was returned straight after this election.

FF/FG is not change so back to the people to enforce change to give us that change.

SF 24.5% UP 10%

FF 22.2 continuously DOWN 2.2

FG 20.9 continuously down 4.7

This was an unprecedented election in Irish history with a big protest from the people against FF/FG and only old comfortable fogeys keeping them in the game.

These old relics are dying out and FF/FG will have a host of TDs deserting before the next election to be replaced with the calibre of Eoghan Murphy,Simon Harris,Varadkar types which will put the nail in the coffin of FG/FF.

Every Party leader said after the election that the people have voted for change.

Typical FF/FG then to do the opposite of what they say and promise,cling on to power by diviying up between themselves and vote themselves into power despite what they admitted what they were told that people wanted change and STILL couldn't make up a government between them because of their spiral downward.

Why haven’t SF formed a left coalition of change? SF and their voters don’t want FF or FG in government I thought so what’s the issue?

Fred Cryton

tipptom wrote: »

People voted for CHANGE,every party leader,TD,journalist has agreed with that on the numbers that was returned straight after this election.

People, you mean around 10% of people right? That was the increase in SF support.

tipptom

omega man wrote: »

Good news.

Any formal decision should be held back until SF confirm to the nation and their voters that they couldn’t deliver change by leading a left coalition because their was in fact was no mandate to do so.

FF or FG certainly got no mandate to go back into government together.

Martin and Varadkar have said so after the election when they said "the message from the people is they want change" given this result.

Back to the people.

ThunbergsAreGo

tipptom wrote: »

[/B]
FF or FG certainly got no mandate to go back into government together.

Martin and Varadkar have said so after the election when they said "the message from the people is they want change" given this result.

Back to the people.

And change couldn't deliver

omega man

tipptom wrote: »

[/B]
FF or FG certainly got no mandate to go back into government together.

Martin and Varadkar have said so after the election when they said "the message from the people is they want change" given this result.

Back to the people.

But they do if they can form a government. SF can’t it seems. What part of that is not clear?

sdanseo

BanditLuke wrote: »

Another blow for democracy if true.

Not really. Those 3 parties got 50.2% of the popular vote between them, and 84* of the available 160 seats. (plus one if you count Seán Ó Feirghail)

I agree we need change in politics in this country, in some areas we need to be more to the left and in some further to the right.
The biggest change to be made is to open our very closed minds and focus development on infrastructure rather than the parish pump.

SF gave the establishment a fright, and it's good that they have. I think a short SF stint would do a lot of good but they are incapable of any pragmatic change in attitude which is the biggest shift needed.
Ireland needs a new centrist party that's clued in to replace FFG.

threeball

tipptom wrote: »

The majority of voter didn't vote for FF.
The majority of voters didn't vote for FG.

People voted for CHANGE,every party leader,TD,journalist has agreed with that on the numbers that was returned straight after this election.

FF/FG is not change so back to the people to enforce change to give us that change.

SF 24.5% UP 10%

FF 22.2 continuously DOWN 2.2

FG 20.9 continuously down 4.7

This was an unprecedented election in Irish history with a big protest from the people against FF/FG and only old comfortable fogeys keeping them in the game.

These old relics are dying out and FF/FG will have a host of TDs deserting before the next election to be replaced with the calibre of Eoghan Murphy,Simon Harris,Varadkar types which will put the nail in the coffin of FG/FF.

Every Party leader said after the election that the people have voted for change.

Typical FF/FG then to do the opposite of what they say and promise,cling on to power by diviying up between themselves and vote themselves into power despite what they admitted what they were told that people wanted change and STILL couldn't make up a government between them because of their spiral downward.

If people voted for change then SF and the left would have the numbers but they don't so people didn't.

Feisar

BanditLuke wrote: »

Another blow for democracy if true.

Please explain?

Edit - as I read down the thread I see this nonsense was called out.

tipptom

omega man wrote: »

Why haven’t SF formed a left coalition of change? SF and their voters don’t want FF or FG in government I thought so what’s the issue?

SF have said they would go into government with FG or FF if the numbers stacked up.

Martin said "the people voted for change" after he saw the SF results and said he would talk to SF given what the results gave up.

They are afraid now SF would go into government and solve the housing crisis and use them as a mudflap and sure that wouldn't do because its all about FF and their cronys like Mickys close friend and benefactor Owen O Callaghan, not what
is best for the country.
And that is why FF/FG votes are spiralling election after election.

omega man

tipptom wrote: »

SF have said they would go into government with FG or FF if the numbers stacked up.

Martin said "the people voted for change" after he saw the SF results and said he would talk to SF given what the results gave up.

They are afraid now SF would go into government and solve the housing crisis and use them as a mudflap and sure that wouldn't do because its all about FF and their cronys like Mickys close friend and benefactor Owen O Callaghan, not what
is best for the country.
And that is why FF/FG votes are spiralling election after election.

But I thought the people wanted FG and FF out of government?
You now want a FF led government? Is that the change people want then?

LeinsterDub

omega man wrote: »

Why haven’t SF formed a left coalition of change? SF and their voters don’t want FF or FG in government I thought so what’s the issue?

Because and this may be a difficult concept for you to understand but 66 is less than 80

satguy

Dinny owns the sindo,, he also owns FG.

Most likely he ordered Leo to start talks with FF. There's a big state contract coming up to lay fiber optic cable, and Dinny wants it.

dxhound2005

satguy wrote: »

Dinny owns the sindo,, he also owns FG.

Most likely he ordered Leo to start talks with FF. There's a big state contract coming up to lay fiber optic cable, and Dinny wants it.

You can't believe anything you read in the Sindo. Nor anything Mary Lou or SF comes out with.

Feisar

tipptom wrote: »

[/B]
FF or FG certainly got no mandate to go back into government together.

Martin and Varadkar have said so after the election when they said "the message from the people is they want change" given this result.

Back to the people.

Yes they did, I'm not sure you understand how the political system works.

Loafing Oaf

satguy wrote: »

Dinny owns the sindo,

No he doesn't

omega man

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Because and this may be a difficult concept for you to understand but 66 is less than 80

So no mandate for change then we’re agreed.

LeinsterDub

omega man wrote: »

So no mandate for change then we’re agreed.

All this talk of mandates is pure nonsense

Loafing Oaf

tipptom wrote: »

They are afraid now SF would go into government and solve the housing crisis and use them as a mudflap

Are they not right to fear this? Is it not highly likely they would get decimated at the next election if they did a deal with SF?

tipptom

tipptom wrote: »

[/B]
FF or FG certainly got no mandate to go back into government together.

Martin and Varadkar have said so after the election when they said "the message from the people is they want change" given this result.

Back to the people.

Why? They have already spoken. SF got less than 25%.

omega man

LeinsterDub wrote: »

All this talk of mandates is pure nonsense

Oh I agree but it’s what SF and their supporters have been telling us post election.

NewbridgeIR

satguy wrote: »

Dinny owns the sindo,, he also owns FG.

Most likely he ordered Leo to start talks with FF. There's a big state contract coming up to lay fiber optic cable, and Dinny wants it.

Dinny from Glenroe?

tipptom

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

No he doesn't

Still infected with his minions telling us the tribunals will tell us nothing so stop them before they go any further, FF are not corrupt and Bertie only called an election on a Saturday night because of Angheous Fannings thong or something like that,nothing to do with his appearance that Monday.

Lets hope the Belgiums can disinfect it.

BorneTobyWilde

FF and FG didn't get enough seats to form a government, so team up to form one, even though both sustained huge losses in public support. That would be a kick in the teeth for everyone who abandoned them, only to get stuck with them.