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The press are now attacking the prosecutors for going ahead with the Caroline flack a

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13

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    #62
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,443 ✭✭✭tritium


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Laws are there to act in the public interest and to punish on behalf of the public.
    There was nothing in this case in the public interest to pursue. It was jobsworths trying to secure a prosecution without any care for the damage they were doing.
    I'd take a scratch from a lamp any day over being mentally put through the wringer by the state in what is a minor incident, she was not going to jail, she might not even had a conviction but the stress of the state turning on her was obviously too much. They need to be held responsible as their crime is a lot worse than what she done.

    See there you go on again with that “scratch from a lamp “ ****e. Frankly daft stuff like that is the reason why victims of domestic abuse, in particular male victims keep quiet, don’t pursue charges and suffer in silence. Frankly you haven’t got a notion what you’re on about


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    #63
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,305 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Her boyfriend didn't want it to go ahead, it was a domestic, it wasn't in the public interest, the prosecuteres just wanted a prosecution at all costs they take no responsibility the damage they can do to someone. I'd put the responsibility of her death firmly in the hands of the state she supporterd all her life who turned on her and destroyed her.
    This notion that criminal charges are they only way to fix something is barbaric, the first line should be the health services not the gallows.

    I'm sure this has already been posted but it's not uncommon for victims of domestic abuse to withdraw their cooperation from the police, for various reasons, sometimes even the threat of suicide or coercion from the guilty party. Its manipulation and part of the continuing abuse. If they didnt go ahead with any of these prosecutions then they could be responsible for further attacks or even deaths.

    Yes, this case had a tragic outcome but it doesn't change the fact that prosecutions for domestic abuse are relatively rare as it is, with most going unreported. cases should be pursued


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    #64
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,236 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    tritium wrote: »
    Tbh I don’t see what the CPS are expected to do in situations like this

    I've all ready outlined what their legal responsibilities are.

    Again it's not my opinion.

    Obviously one of the actual facts we do know is she wasn't fit to stand trial.

    The CPS are supposed to protect against this and may have to explain their reasoning to a Coroner or if it happens an independent inquiry.


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    #65
    Jasper79
    Registered Users Posts: 507 ✭✭✭Jasper79


    Boggles wrote: »
    I've all ready outlined what their legal responsibilities are.

    Again it's not my opinion.

    Obviously one of the actual facts we do know is she wasn't fit to stand trial.

    The CPS are supposed to protect against this and may have to explain their reasoning to a Coroner or if it happens an independent inquiry.

    I can't actually find anything online about CPS and duty of care for perpetrators, where are you finding this information ?

    How do we actually know she wasn't fit to stand trial ? We know that she wasn't prepared to and took her life instead.


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    #66
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,236 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Jasper79 wrote: »
    How do we actually know she wasn't fit to stand trial

    Because she hung herself. :confused:


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    #67
    Jasper79
    Registered Users Posts: 507 ✭✭✭Jasper79


    Boggles wrote: »
    Because she hung herself. :confused:

    A conscious choice she made.


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    #68
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,236 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Jasper79 wrote: »
    A conscious choice she made.

    I've all ready pointed out your bullshít once, I won't again.
    Boggles wrote: »
    Firstly the vast majority of people with severe mental health issues don't "choose" to kill themselves, they feel they have no choice. So maybe be careful with lax musings, it's not fair to people who have been bereaved by suicide who might be reading it.


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    #69
    Jasper79
    Registered Users Posts: 507 ✭✭✭Jasper79


    Boggles wrote: »
    I've all ready pointed out your bullshít once, I won't again.

    it's not bull****, just because you don't agree with it . Also you haven't answered re the info on CPS and duty of care to perpetrators ?


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    #70
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,236 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Jasper79 wrote: »
    it's not bull****, just because you don't agree with it .

    It's not just me.

    But good for you, keep on trucking.


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    #71
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Jasper79 wrote: »
    A conscious choice she made.


    Only an ignoramus would suggest that suicide was a conscious choice.

    Its an altered state of consciousness, where decision making and good judgement take a back seat.

    To get back to the thread title, the reason the press and the editors association have been all over this, is to distract from their effect. The gutter press have learnt nothing. And how could they when they have the same people running them that ran the previous rags no longer in circulation for similar basement levels of so called responsible journalism.


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    #72
    jackboy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,598 ✭✭✭jackboy


    If the press had relentlessly backed her in life as they have done now then things may have worked out different. I dont remember many journalists writing about this travesty of justice beforehand.

    As ever, the media are following the most dramatic angle with their reporting. The truth is not relevant.


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    #73
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    They have been very busy taking down the articles over the past few days.



    The so called poor taste cartoonist has taken down all his social media as he quite rightly got his head taken off him.


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    #74
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    How much domestic violence does somebody have to do that their suicide's tragedy no longer overshadows their crimes . Like would anyone feel bad if OJ simpson topped himself, or Johnny depps missus or ike turner...

    clearly flack's suicide has completely overshadowed her crimes and the media has turned on the tears for her, I personally suspect a man would not have received the same treatment.


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    #75
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    How much domestic violence does somebody have to do that their suicide's tragedy no longer overshadows their crimes . Like would anyone feel bad if OJ simpson topped himself, or Johnny depps missus or ike turner...

    clearly flack's suicide has completely overshadowed her crimes and the media has turned on the tears for her, I personally suspect a man would not have received the same treatment.


    What crimes ? What conviction ?


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    #76
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    STB. wrote: »
    What crimes ? What Conviction ?

    If youll notice I specifically picked examples in the same boat.


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    #77
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    If youll notice I specifically picked examples in the same boat.


    If you didn't notice you are talking about "her crimes". Now lets try that again, What was she convicted of ?


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    #78
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,507 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    STB. wrote: »
    If you didn't notice you are talking about "her crimes". Now lets try that again, What was she convicted of ?

    Serial pedantry?


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    #79
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,559 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    STB. wrote: »
    What crimes ? What conviction ?

    who, OJ?


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    #80
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    c montgomery wrote: »
    She's responsible for the charge.

    The press are responsible for the constant pressure and scrutiny she was under which ultimately led to her demise.
    They have some cheek, luckily their days are numbered. If more people stopped buying red top the less influence they would have.

    The prosecution was justified. A key witness declining to take part does not make it unjustified. Even if the prosecution were not sound, it has to be said that there would never be an acquittal if all prosecutions were soundly based. If a conviction always required a victim to testify there would be no murder convictions.
    The problem lies in a scum media engaged in a race to the bottom and the scum readers whose base appetite they are pandering to. It's happening in Ireland as well as in the UK, papers usurping the functions of judge and jury, improperly printing facts and opinions before cases come to trial, and behaving vindictively towards people who call them out. They are getting bolder and bolder. Greed knows no bounds. I complained on one occasion to a paper over embarrassing stuff they published about a person to whom I had no connection, stuff that was of no public interest. One little b*****d at the paper responded to me that "it sells newspapers." Decency is plumbing the depths.
    I'm glad that some sections of the media are on the warpath over this. The pity is that it has taken one of their own to die before they were prompted to take a strong line. Others have died in similar circumstances, raising little more than a whimper from the same quarters. And as one poster has correctly pointed out, some of them are sabre-rattling to take the focus off their own dirty work.


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    #81
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    clearly flack's suicide has completely overshadowed her crimes and the media has turned on the tears for her, I personally suspect a man would not have received the same treatment.

    Well that’s not exactly true, because she received the height of abuse from both the press & the public when the story first broke. The accusations made against her were taken extremely seriously.
    It’s just still very raw & suicide is close to home for a lot of people.

    When the incident first happened, no one was concerned or raised the worry that all the abuse from the general public, on social media and the tabloids would be detrimental to her mental health.
    The witch hunt had well and truly commenced, and nothing was off limits.
    No one cared about the damage it would have on her mental health at all.

    Now she has unfortunately killed herself, and I think it has made lot of people reflect on their own behaviour in general and how we all conduct ourselves.
    I don’t disagree that the assault has been downplayed quite a lot, and that’s most likely because there are a lot of guilty consciences over how she was hounded and lost all support in her time of need.
    The difference in how the media is reporting on it this time round is staggering, there is a lot of back peddling going on.
    Suicide is also a very sensitive issue to a lot of people, which is bound to make people more sympathetic to her. It’s extremely sad and upsetting that she saw no alternative option and gave herself no opportunity at redemption, and that has hit home as well.

    In a few weeks time, when it isn’t so raw, people will see the situation objectively for what it is:
    it’s awful that she assaulted her partner, and it’s awful that she committed suicide.
    Both are true and you don’t have to take one side or another.

    I completely disagree on the gender front. The reality of it is that some people’s careers recover from turmoil like this and some don’t.
    Chris Brown & Ant McPartlin are still enjoying successful lucrative careers despite violently assaulting their partner (Brown) and drink driving, almost killing others (McPartlin).
    R Kelly remained popular and successful for many years after he married a 15yr old child that he is reported to have been physically & sexually violent to, his career didn’t suffer at all until many years later.
    So it’s more to do with how the media portray you and less to do with whether you’re a man or a woman. Some celebrities get away with it, others don’t.
    And Caroline most certainly didn’t get away with it.


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    #82
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Quantum Erasure wrote: »
    who, OJ?


    You know, don't play the fool


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    #83
    micar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭micar


    STB. wrote: »
    What crimes ? What conviction ?


    1) Smashing a lamp across his head.

    2) We'll never know.

    In her unpublished Instagram, she didn't apologise for what she did.


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    #84
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    micar wrote: »
    1) Smashing a lamp across his head.

    2) We'll never know.

    In her unpublished Instagram, she didn't apologise for what she did.


    You do realise being accused of something and being found guilty of a crime are two vastly things ?

    Probably not. Not to worry.


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    #85
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    STB. wrote: »
    You do realise being accused of something and being found guilty of a crime are two vastly things ?

    Probably not. Not to worry.

    I agree with this entirely. The reason I and many others are pissed off about this case on gender grounds is that none of that was afforded to the Belfast rape trial defendants, the many film industry figures named in #metoo allegations, etc, and yet the same people who are talking about how upset they are over Flack's treatment and its outcome are the same people who happily joined the "those people should never be allowed to work again" brigade when it was lads who were the target of unfounded and unproven allegations.

    Something is either acceptable or it isn't. If that changes in someone's eyes upon learning the gender of the target, then that person is a sexist piece of sh!t. It's as simple as that.


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    #86
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    I agree with this entirely. The reason I and many others are pissed off about this case on gender grounds is that none of that was afforded to the Belfast rape trial defendants, the many film industry figures named in #metoo allegations, etc, and yet the same people who are talking about how upset they are over Flack's treatment and its outcome are the same people who happily joined the "those people should never be allowed to work again" brigade when it was lads who were the target of unfounded and unproven allegations.

    Something is either acceptable or it isn't. If that changes in someone's eyes upon learning the gender of the target, then that person is a sexist piece of sh!t. It's as simple as that.

    It’s not about gender, it’s about public popularity and how the media portray them.
    Chris Brown and Ant McPartlin’s careers recovered extremely well after their respective violent assaults/drink driving, and it was decades later before R Kelly faced the consequences of his actions.
    Some get away with it, some don’t.


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    #87
    micar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭micar


    micar wrote: »
    1) Smashing a lamp across his head.

    2) We'll never know.

    In her unpublished Instagram, she didn't apologise for what she did.
    STB. wrote: »
    You do realise being accused of something and being found guilty of a crime are two vastly things ?

    Probably not. Not to worry.

    The court case would have determined an outcome but we'll never know.


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    #88
    dark crystal
    Registered Users Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    How much domestic violence does somebody have to do that their suicide's tragedy no longer overshadows their crimes . Like would anyone feel bad if OJ simpson topped himself, or Johnny depps missus or ike turner...

    clearly flack's suicide has completely overshadowed her crimes and the media has turned on the tears for her, I personally suspect a man would not have received the same treatment.

    Oh, this little gem pops up again.

    Josh Brolin, Terence Howard, Sean Penn, Charlie Sheen, Gary Oldman, Floyd Mayweather, Michael Fassbender...just some of the men who have been accused or convicted of domestic violence who went on to have hugely successful careers afterwards.

    However none of those men hung themselves afterwards, so I guess we'll never know how many 'tears' they would have generated, will we?


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    #89
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    micar wrote: »
    The court case would have determined an outcome but we'll never know.


    And your still posting.


    So you thought you'd convict her in her absence. Good for you Einstein.


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    #90
    micar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭micar


    micar wrote: »
    The court case would have determined an outcome but we'll never know.
    STB. wrote: »
    And your still posting.


    So you thought you'd convict her in her absence. Good for you Einstein.

    Yep......Still posting.

    "But the truth is ... It was an accident.".....picking up a lamp and hitting someone over the head is an "accident".

    Don't have to be Einstein to see that that is assault.

    You have your opinion and I've mine.


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    #91
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    micar wrote: »
    Yep......Still posting.

    "But the truth is ... It was an accident.".....picking up a lamp and hitting someone over the head is an "accident".

    Don't have to be Einstein to see that that is assault.

    You have your opinion and I've mine.


    You don't get convicted for a crime until the courts determine so.


    You can armchair law all you want.

    It's not about opinions. Its about labeling people with "crimes". Its innocent until proven guilty in both Ireland and the UK and you don't get to decide, Einstein.


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