"None of our children on the list are getting these houses"

Nitrogan

What has current city council done ?

Who are these useless twunt?

end of the road

Gatling wrote: »

It could be done over a phased basis on new builds say to people on the list we have properties outside of Dublin there's shops , doctors surgeries and school places and if they say no ,sorry your discharged from our duty of care and your welcome to self accommodate at your own cost,
It would also help rejuvenate towns and villages that have suffered due to migration and breathe new life into rural Ireland

They do this in London ,you can literally end up moving across the country unless there is an actual need to live in one single place ,

except there isn't school places and doctors surgeries available to take them in a lot of places, and for some places no shops either.
the idea that somehow you would be able to do a simple swap of social wellfare dependants to rural areas, and those living in rural areas to the cities is just complete nonsense.
also your plan i would expect won't rejuvinate anywhere because rural ireland is declining for a reason. to rejuvinate it would i would expect, require serious infrastructural and other investment which is unlikely to ever happen.

AulWan

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

No I think fixing the priority and allocation for the future would help. We don't need to keep doing something because "it's always been done".

A house for life is an old fashioned concept which hadn't evolved. The method for allocating has hardly changed at the same time as this country has radically changed.

I do not blame the people, the system (and the media to a degree) is at fault

There should be one priority and one only. Lenght of time on list. Some loca authorities have moved away from a points system, and this is much fairer.

Someone who already finds themselves in a position of disadvantage should not be put at a further disadvantage because someone else on the list has a job.

Nor should they be banished to live in some isolated arse end of nowhere with no proper supports or infrastructure, for the same reason.

Gatling

end of the road wrote: »

except there isn't school places and doctors surgeries available to take them in a lot of places,

See case and point .

No ,no ,no you can't .


small minded opinions and excuses

Gatling

AulWan wrote: »

Nor should they be banished to live in some isolated arse end of nowhere with no proper supports or infrastructure, for the same reason.

What like schools , doctors ,shops ,gaa clubs pub's and restaurants all available in every town in the country ,what's next look at ballymum .

Actually look at tallaght ,went from a pretty small village to a major town centre with the square , hospital , university , schools ,other retailers ,pub's , restaurants ,houses , apartments,buses ,luas

See it actually works .

I'm sure someone said no it will never work 40 years ago

AulWan

But they're right, there aren't.

Not enough schools, not enough GPs or hospitals, not even basic services do you think you can just shove people in a field, write them off and leave them there?

Whether in social housing or otherwise, supports and infrastructure are required. They tried building thousands upon thousands of houses in fields with no supports before and it didn't work.

You mention Tallaght? Mostly described as a **** hole by many on boards. Jobstown constantly mentioned as a blackspot.

Why do you think doing the same thing would work this time around, only outside of Dublin?

You're thinking isn't "new". Its been done before, and it failed.

Gatling

AulWan wrote: »

Not enough schools, not enough GPs or hospitals, not even basic services do you think you can just shove people in a field, write them off and leave them there?


You mention Tallaght? Mostly described as a **** hole by many on boards. Jobstown constantly mentioned as a blackspot.
.

Wrong again ,

Who said just dump people in fields -Nobody off you go down your road of no ,no ,no
Jobstown is a kip but there is a jobstown in every part of the country .

But that changes nothing

mikemac2

AulWan wrote: »

There should be one priority and one only. Lenght of time on list. Some loca authorities have moved away from a points system, and this is much fairer.

Someone who already finds themselves in a position of disadvantage should not be put at a further disadvantage because someone else on the list has a job.

Nor should they be banished to live in some isolated arse end of nowhere with no proper supports or infrastructure, for the same reason.

Some people put themselves on the list when 18.

Length on the list means nothing realy. It doesn't mean they are the best person for that local authority home

AulWan

Gatling wrote: »

Wrong again ,

Who said just dump people in fields -Nobody off you go down your road of no ,no ,no
Jobstown is a kip but there is a jobstown in every part of the country .

But that changes nothing

Plenty of posters on here have said it, quite openly. As it happens I grew up in west Tallaght and my parents still live there. So I am very familiar with the area, including Jobstown.

It took every painful one of those forty years and fighting tooth and nail by the people that live there to get Tallaght to the point where it is now, in terms of infrastructure, but there is still more that could be done. You will still have difficulty getting a GP. There are still not enough school places. There are still unemployment blackspots.

Look at MacUilliam estate, not built that long ago, but it is repeating all the mistakes of the past that comes from throwing up a lot of social housing all together creating a blackspot.

Citywest is now exploding with over-development as fast as they can throw the houses and apartments up with not enough supports in terms of schools or GPs and everyone who buys up there thinks they'll all fit on the Luas to get to work. Yeah, watch this space.

The last thing that is needed is more huge social housing projects creating blackspots. Learn from the mistakes of the past not repeat them. Mixed housing going forward is the only way to go. In all parts of the country, including Dublin.

Gatling

AulWan wrote: »

Citywest is now exploding with over-development as fast as they can throw the houses and apartments up with not enough supports in terms of schools or GPs and everyone who buys up there thinks they'll all fit on the Luas to get to work.

Didn't three new schools open in the last few years with another two planned in the area ,st Mary's is a pretty big school within 5 minutes you have the shopping centre ,a small dunnes ,pubs restaurants and transport links . Luas frequency can be increased ,one every 12 mins or so now at Saggart so yeah .
Another there's not enough when clearly infrastructure is improving all the time

AulWan

Can't think of any pubs in the area myself, and the only "restaurants" are fast food ones. The shopping centre is tiny and the only new school I can think of is one small primary, Scoil Aoife.

What about the 1000 new apartments and houses that will be ready this year? The Luas is already full every morning at the second stop.

Give it maybe 40 years and everything thats "planned" might be enough.

Gatling

AulWan wrote: »

Can't think of any pubs in the area myself, and the only "restaurants" are fast food ones. The shopping centre is tiny and the only new school I can think of is one small primary, Scoil Aoife.

What about the 1000 new apartments and houses that will be ready this year? The Luas is already full every morning at the second stop.

Scoil aiofe

The new st Marys is huge

Citywest national school

Citywest educate together

Two new schools have planning permission and will be built facing the last Luas stop ,
Citywest shopping centre is small but it has most of what people need Lidl across the road ,a small dunnes in saggart ,a small Tesco in rathcoole ,the square 5 minutes away Liffey valley 15 mins away (by car)
Along with Gaa , soccer , martial arts ,horse riding ,gyms ,dance classes ,
again the luas could easily be upgraded and increased frequency ,there is 4 bus routes ,77a ,65,69,175 ,and it's literally on the N7 straight run to the city centre and any where in the country .

Nearly forgot about the swimming pool and BMX /skateboard park going beside it

end of the road

Gatling wrote: »

Didn't three new schools open in the last few years with another two planned in the area ,st Mary's is a pretty big school within 5 minutes you have the shopping centre ,a small dunnes ,pubs restaurants and transport links . Luas frequency can be increased ,one every 12 mins or so now at Saggart so yeah .
Another there's not enough when clearly infrastructure is improving all the time

luas can only be upgraded so much as it is a light rail system which is on road and street running, a completely ridiculous thing to have happened, as much as luas is a handy service which dublin is all the better for having.
we already have the longest trams in europe i believe and still the system is creaking, the system is expected to act as a heavy rail system rather then what it actually is .
i would expect that there might be some increasing of frequency going forward where it is possible, i'm not sure it is possible within the city itself now, but it would only be a short term sollution, capacity i would expect will be eaten up rather quickly.

vriesmays

AulWan wrote: »

ARe you looking for sympathy for high paid families?

At least they are better placed to afford the commuting costs.

Unlike those on minimum wage or in low paid employment, where the costs of commuting may be what tips the balance on the scales between taking up employment or not.

Keep all the wasters in Dublin central because it's too expensive for them to travel to the welfare office down the country is that it.

AulWan

Everything you have mentioned is small scale, yet there are over 1000 new homes currently going up in Citywest that will be ready for occupancy this year.

I'm actually amused that you think the tiny branches of Dunnes and Tesco in Saggart and Rathcoole are adequate, or think commuting on the N7 will be a breeze. But whatever - building vast tracts of housing before the services in place is putting the cart before the horse, and "planned" is all very well but in reality could mean anything in the next 5-10-15 years.

And if its anything like growing up in West Tallaght in the 80s, you can believe "planned" will take years before the needs of the expanding population are met and in the meantime people will struggle on and their kids will grow up in cars.

Yet for some reason, you think its all going to happen overnight. Good luck with that.

Gatling

AulWan wrote: »

I'm actually amused that you think the tiny branches of Dunnes and Tesco in Saggart and Rathcoole are adequate, or think commuting on the N7 will be a breeze.

I'm beginning to think your on a wind up .


There is services , infrastructure , transport , transport links , schools ,pubs and restaurants .

And yet here you are saying no ,no no there is no infrastructure get real everything is already there , there is even jobs but that's not good for you ,
What exactly do you want ,
Well

AulWan

Gatling wrote: »

I'm beginning to think your on a wind up .


There is services , infrastructure , transport , transport links , schools ,pubs and restaurants .

And yet here you are saying no ,no no there is no infrastructure get real everything is already there , there is even jobs but that's not good for you ,
What exactly do you want ,
Well

Do you live in the vicinity? I do, and have for almost 40 years now, since my family moved into one of the very first local authority estates in West Tallaght thrown up with no supports.

What I want is for the mistakes of the past not to be repeated.

You, on the other hand, are obviously living in a field of dreams.

"Build it and they will come. "

Gatling

AulWan wrote: »

Do you live in the vicinity? I do,

Yes I do ,

Oddly enough you don't seem to know anything about the locality you just keep repeating there is no infrastructure and look at something that happened 40 years ago .

What infrastructure do you want because we've have everything within minutes and yet you say there is nothing but Fields for some odd reason .

AulWan

I didn't say there was no infrastructure. I said there is insufficent infrastructure and supports. I know many people who bought up there who can't get a GP or a preschool place and my family members who still live a few stops down on the Luas line have given up trying to use the Luas for work in the morning.

So if you think there are enough supports in place for the next thousand new homes about to come on line up there then you're away with the fairies. And describing the Square as five minutes away? As the crow flies, maybe.

As for the N7? Easy commute before 6am maybe. I have a work colleague who has just been granted permission to work from home 2 days a week, specifically because her "easy" commute on the N7 taking her two hours each way nearly gave her a nervous breakdown.

Don't believe everything you read in a property brochure.

Eric Cartman

AulWan wrote: »

Do you live in the vicinity? I do, and have for almost 40 years now, since my family moved into one of the very first local authority estates in West Tallaght thrown up with no supports.

What I want is for the mistakes of the past not to be repeated.

You, on the other hand, are obviously living in a field of dreams.

"Build it and they will come. "

You moved to tallaght in the mid 80s , fettercairn was the first council estate in west tallaght and that was built in 84 , so

1984: Public library, at Castletymon, opened in June.
1990: The Square shopping centre opens.
1992: Institute of Technology, Tallaght opens.
1994: South Dublin County Council comes into existence, with new headquarters at Tallaght; Tallaght Youth Theatre is founded; Tallaght’s second public library, situated beside the South Dublin County Council offices, opened in December.
1995: Tallaght Theatre built in Kilnamanagh.
1997: Tallaght Theatre is officially opened, on the Greenhill's Rd, Behind the Cuckoo's Nest Pub.
1998: Tallaght Hospital opens.

The dunnes in kilnamanagh was the largest dunnes in the country , H.williamson was another supermarket there at the time too.

Tallaght outgrew some of its services which put demand on it but it wasnt like you had 'nothing'

Gatling

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Tallaght outgrew some of its services which put demand on it but it wasnt like you had 'nothing'

Now we have a university hospital ,
Major shopping centre due to expand further
University/college,
Plenty of schools ,
Dr surgeries ,
Hotels ,
A stadium
Convention center in saggart.
Community centres
Activities centers
Cafes
Bars
Restaurants

And still there not happy - there's not enough apparently

AulWan

Killinarden was built in the 70s. Its clear some have no concept of how big Tallaght is, or how old some parts of it are.

To get to Castletymon library, would take two buses from Fettercairn. Oh but wait. When Fettercairn was built there WAS no bus service.

Likewise to Kilnamanagh. The only bus route was the 76 and it was maybe once an hour.

So, nearly 10 years for a (very tiny) public library that it took 2 buses to get too, 15 years for halfway decent shopping centre and over 20 years for a hospital.

yeah, thats great lads.

Eric Cartman

Gatling wrote: »

Now we have a university hospital ,
Major shopping centre due to expand further
University/college,
Plenty of schools ,
Dr surgeries ,
Hotels ,
A stadium
Convention center in saggart.
Community centres
Activities centers
Cafes
Bars
Restaurants

And still there not happy - there's not enough apparently

but maybe if they installed a national basketball arena the crime rate would drop
ohh wait...

tallaght was the second place to get natural gas too.

AulWan

Gatling wrote: »

Now we have a university hospital ,
Major shopping centre due to expand further
University/college,
Hotels ,
A stadium
Plenty of schools ,
Dr surgeries
Convention center in saggart.
Community centres
Activities centers
Cafes
Bars
Restaurants

And still there not happy - there's not enough apparently

Definitely reading too many property brochures. Are you sure you're not an estate agent trying to flog the houses up there?

Gatling

AulWan wrote: »

So, nearly 10 years for a (very tiny) public library that it took 2 buses to get too, 15 years for halfway decent shopping centre and over 20 years for a hospital.

But guess it's 2020 now stop moaning about 40 years ago

We also had a fleet of mobile libraries that travelled all over tallaght ,

And we all have phones and the internet now imagine that wow

Gatling

AulWan wrote: »

Definitely reading too many property brochures.

I live here .

Have you left that council house in the last 30 years at all

Eric Cartman

AulWan wrote: »

Killinarden was built in the 70s. Its clear some have no concept of how big Tallaght is, or how old some parts of it are.

To get to Castletymon library, would take two buses from Fettercairn. Oh but wait. When Fettercairn was built there WAS no bus service.

Likewise to Kilnamanagh. The only bus route was the 76 and it was maybe once an hour.

So, nearly 10 years for a (very tiny) public library that it took 2 buses to get too, 15 years for halfway decent shopping centre and over 20 years for a hospital.

yeah, thats great lads.

Killinarden was a field in 1976, the government only started clearing forestry there, cant say for absolute certainty when the first completeion was but 1978 is an educated guess. There was a community school built in 1981, there was a boxing club in jobstown, a community centre in 83. 5 years in the door and already so much on your doorstep.
the 77 and 77a routes were in place in 1972 also. Tallaght is absolutely one of the best serviced locations in ireland for everything and you just cant accept that.

AulWan

Gatling wrote: »

But guess it's 2020 now stop moaning about 40 years ago

We also had a fleet of mobile libraries that travelled all over tallaght ,

And we all have phones and the internet now imagine that wow

I'm not moaning about 40 years ago! I'm pointing out how long it takes to get from new area, to developed area! Do you think Tallaght went from green fields to developed area overnight? NO it didn't!

Do you still think dumping thousands of social housing all in one place works? Even recent examples like MacUilliam proves that it doesn't - it didn't work 40 years ago, and it doesn't work now.

There are posters on this thread who like to argue that all new social housing developments should be outside dublin or in rural areas where no infrastructure or supports exist, and not only that, but any current Dublin social housing tenants who are not in employment should be moved to those areas too, to accommodate workers.

The point I was making is that it takes 40 YEARS for an area to develop fully but that obviously sailed far, far over your head.

Gatling

AulWan wrote: »

There are posters on this thread who like to argue that new social housing developments should be outside dublin or in rural areas where no infrastructure or supports exist,

There you go again with no infrastructure .

There is plenty of infrastructure all over the country your denying any infrastructure is tallaght , saggart and citywest , when there is plenty of infrastructure no empty fields but everything anyone could need ,

But according to you there is not -delusional

Eric Cartman

Gatling wrote: »

There you go again with no infrastructure .

There is plenty of infrastructure all over the country your denying any infrastructure is tallaght , saggart and citywest , when there is plenty of infrastructure no empty fields but everything anyone could need ,

But according to you there is not -delusional

unless theres a bus stop outside every door, a bus every 5 minutes, an olympic swimming pool at the end of the cul de sac , a tesco extra every 200 meters and 1 shopping centre for every 14 residents then its not enough services and the youth will all turn to crime.