Working Class

mariaalice

SF means it as working but can't buy a house and has huge child care costs. The sort of people who work in retail, child care, transport and the like, low to medium paying jobs that keep the economy.

The nonworking is a relatively small issue overall and won't ever change.

topper75

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

An interesting fact.... 5% of Irish adults are described as 'disabled' on the last census. In some areas of Limerick, 15% of people have declared themselves as disabled and incapable of work. Unless they have localised TB or rickets, this is a wind-up.

A wind-up indeed. Possibly even an endemic culture.

Erstwhile Limerick poll-topper, W. O'Dea, is an absolute walking encyclopaedia of the Irish social welfare system.

His poll-topping crown was taken of late by a Mr. Quinlivan of Sinn Féin.

Go figure.

Graces7

Natasha Harsh Royalty wrote: »

Ireland maintains social security agreements with other countries to cover this kind of situation. If an emigrant has worked and paid social insurance in England but retires in Ireland, he can use his contributions to qualify for retirement benefits in Ireland. The same would apply to the reverse scenario.

Interesting. I came here from England and now my pension comes in, as sterling, from England, as does my Mobility Allowance . I made sure of this before I came.

Yes I qualify for various small allowances as the UK pension is less generous than the Irish and the cost of living is higher here.

This exchange was safeguarded before Brexit

Graces7

Cupatae wrote: »

I actually feel bad for genuine people on welfare, getting drilled and labelled constantly as scum leaches, bottom feeders looking for a free ride ect, imagine the depression of going into a post office and knowing everyone that sees you thinks your a low life leach.

As a society now we are ridiculously judgmental, its no wonder suicides are a constant thing now a days. People are ruthless "

Amen to this.

Graces7

maninasia wrote: »

It's not only that though is it.

Free travel, medical cards, subsidised phone, fuel, tv, numerous other benefits and discounts. Subsidised or free accommodation for those with no home.
Many pensioners are well off ,paid off their mortgsges and even get private pensions too.

Relatively young retirement age at 65 years old.

You should see what pensioners get across the water or in 95% plus of countries worldwide. Those people would be green with envy at the deal in Ireland.

phone subsidy = E2.50 week. Electricity allowance covers standing order and lighting. What "other benefits and discounts" please?

Graces7

Rodin wrote: »

And if you've no means (because you claimed all your life for example) it's almost 500euro a week for a pensioner couple + state benefits

Please itemise this? Thank you so very much.

Graces7

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

Rightly or wrongly.....


An interesting fact.... 5% of Irish adults are described as 'disabled' on the last census. In some areas of Limerick, 15% of people have declared themselves as disabled and incapable of work. Unless they have localised TB or rickets, this is a wind-up.

The census includes old people?

There are many folk who are disabled in some way including mental illness. So that figure is understandable . Unless a large number of doctors are in error? Certification being needed.

Ush1

Your name is on the building, your office, your desk or your shirt.

railer201

A stereotypical example would be a labourer or tradesperson - carpenter, bricky, plumber etc.,- living in a local authority house, though could be private too.

Reads the red tops. Sporting interests, likely to be football as in soccer or gaelic - big led tv and at least one holiday in the sun a year. A pint or two every night in the local. No savings account, money is for spending. As my next door neighbour keeps saying, I'm here for a good time, not for a long time !

joe40

railer201 wrote: »

A stereotypical example would be a labourer or tradesperson - carpenter, bricky, plumber etc.,- living in a local authority house, though could be private too.

Reads the red tops. Sporting interests, likely to be football as in soccer or gaelic - big led tv and at least one holiday in the sun a year. A pint or two every night in the local. No savings account, money is for spending. As my next door neighbour keeps saying, I'm here for a good time, not for a long time !

Tradespeople could be earning more than teachers (traditional middle class job) nowadays.
I hate these terms but I think working class refers to minimum wage jobs or close. The group of people I have most sympathy for, maybe not much better off than some people on welfare but still working hard.
I'm not against welfare there needs to be a safety and unfortunately a certain number will abuse it.

Bit cynical

dartboardio wrote: »

Very true . While obviously being in a hotel room with children and no home to go to would be horrible, unfortunately a lot (if not most) of these young single women with 2/3 kids are almost in the hotel room because they would rather wait 8 years on a housing list for a free house, instead of getting out and busting their bollocks working to pay for a house/apartment for them and their children, like the rest of the country have to do.

I've seen it! Perfectly able bodied single mother/father saying ' Poor me, I'm on the housing list 10 years and still no sign of a 3 bed house!!'

Yet they refuse to get out, work/save/pay rent like the rest. (and yes i know the rent is crazy but how do other people do it?... they educate themselves/move up the ladder, work their arse off)...

Realistically however, the salary required in order to pay for an apartment and childcare for 3 puts this out of reach for most single parents. If they have got themselves into this situation they are stuck until they get social housing.

lainey_d_123

I have always considered class to be based on far more than income, I suppose this is a more UK-centric view but I think it holds here too. In the US it seems to be that loads of money = upper class and that's not the case here.

One of my best friends is someone I'd definitely consider middle class - grew up in a biggish house in Sandymount (parents inherited it), went to a good school (but not fee paying), was brought up with an appreciation for art and literature as both parents were very well educated. She argues that she isn't middle class because the household income wasn't very high, but I think it's about much more than simple cash flow.

I would have had a similar household income but grew up on a rough estate, went to rough schools, parents not very educated, dinner usually frozen or tinned food or takeaways as parents working long hours, spent free time watching soaps or other rubbish on TV, no books, only tabloid newspapers.

It actually annoys me when my friend tries to claim we have similar backgrounds because in my eyes, she's had so much more. Her parents might have been cash poor but she still grew up in a lovely area, mixed with almost exclusively middle class people at school, learned all kinds of things and social skills which meant she fit in perfectly at college, while I spent the first year feeling like a fish out of water.

andekwarhola

While the spectre of generational unemploymed so beloved of people here does exist, it's far less prevalent than they presume.

fryup

you go to these so called "working class" housing estates and yet half the people are on the dole some of which never worked a day in their lives...so how can they call themselves working class?? seems a contradiction doesn't it?

andekwarhola

anewme wrote: »

The Gallaghers are rich, millionaires, not relatively wealthy.

To be fair, they're rich and live in wealthy areas now but theyre obviously going to identify themselves in terms of their formative years: their parents, schooling, friends and upbringing. When middle class people pretend to be street, they'd be ridiculed so why would they do the inverse just because they've made some money?

Their kids are obviously a different case.

andekwarhola

fryup wrote: »

you go to these so called "working class" housing estates and yet half the people are on the dole some of which never worked a day in their lives...so how can they call themselves working class?? seems a contradiction doesn't it?

The current rate of unemployment rate in Ireland is 4 or 5% which presumably includes the likes of people on genuine sickness benefit and home carers.

I'm presuming some of the massive hoard of incalcitrant lifelong unemployed to whom you refer just don't bother signing on?

Jim_Hodge

Graces7 wrote: »

phone subsidy = E2.50 week. Electricity allowance covers standing order and lighting. What "other benefits and discounts" please?

That's really not true about the electricity allowance. It's €35 per month, which covers an awful lot more than standing charge and lighting. It covers about 130units per month. Some Pensioners can cook by electric and still not use the full allowance.

Please itemise this? Thank you so very much.

(237x2)+2.5+9+fuel allowance and that's just the basic entitlements without free travel, TV licence etc. We're fairly well looked after considering we have our mortgages paid and families reared. And a lot better than many countries in Europe or the US.

I hope that helps.

Mad_maxx

Deleted User wrote: »

I have a shaking disorder which affects all of my body but in particular my hands and head. There are many jobs with physical requirements that I can't do, and there's other jobs like some parts of hospitality where my shaking makes some people uncomfortable and therefore I wouldn't get work easily. I could claim disability, but I don't... because there are plenty more jobs that I can do. I was raised by my parents to believe that I could conquer the obstacles that my disorder presented me with, and for the most part, I have.

I know a variety of people on disability benefits, and most of them need the benefit due to their physical/mental conditions, however, as in everything, there are some people who will use anything as an excuse to get a free ride.

i cant even walk properly due to a foot accident , i used to walk four miles daily for exercise , id be in agony if i walked a half a km now , however due to the fact that i have income streams ( pre injury ) which bring in 50 k per year , i dont qualify for any sort of disability

is this right ? , perhaps

as for the " working class " thing , some say its as much a way of thinking - outlook - interests as it is about income

a middle class person might perhaps be more into going to galleries , looking at art , despite earning modest amounts of money , wayne rooney is a multi millionaire , cant imagine he is into high culture that often ?

Jimbob1977

Graces7 wrote: »

The census includes old people?

There are many folk who are disabled in some way including mental illness. So that figure is understandable . Unless a large number of doctors are in error? Certification being needed.

The census accounts for retired people under a separate category (in terms of Labour Force Availability).

In the disability category...

Irish average level of disability: 5%

Limerick Regeneration level of disability: 15%

It's hard to fathom that certain areas are triple the national average.

Idbatterim

would margaret ca$h be considered peasant class or middle class? given that she is on about 80k gross in benefits?

andekwarhola

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

Irish average level of disability: 5%

Limerick Regeneration level of disability: 15%

It's hard to fathom that certain areas are triple the national average.

Could be using a social disability metric.

Rodin

Rodin wrote: »

I hadn't realised it was a 5 year stretch in the joy.
Take some ownership of your life and stop expecting the state to look after you.

Incisive riposte to something I, of course, never said. Well done.

tjdaly

Mother is a university lecturer, dad worked as a day laborer. Honestly, when it comes to women though, I like them trashy (I hope that's not disrespectful).

tastyt

The class thing is all a bit embarrassing really

riclad

I Think working class people work on a low wage, eg supermarket,s ,
taxi driver,s security gaurd , eg jobs that do not require 3rd level education.
if you work in a office you are middle class.Of course plumber,s carpenters earn more than nurse,s or teachers ,so it cannot be just defined by income .Entry level retail workers would be working class .There,s working class and middle class in america too.
if you drive a van or a truck you are working class .
Its to do with education too, many jobs will only accept people who have degree,s even if its simple office work.
if you work in journalism , media, pr, tech you are middle class .
there s plenty of middle class people who have less money or a lower income than a plumber or a brick layer .
If you live in a council local authority housing you are working class .

dartboardio

Yeah actually, what class are people getting 40k in benefits a year?

They have lots of disposable income but it's all free money.

Actually, a certain attitude comes with that too unfortunately. My family have all worked and owned their own houses and recently my aunt married a man with two kids from a previous relationship,

The two kids mum has been on social welfare her whole life and has been given a big gorgeous house out in a nice area in dublin for essentially free from the council.

The two kids, despite their mum being on sw and getting everything handed to her - look down on others and think they are the 'posh' ones

They've actually sneered at my aunt when she said she was buying her own home in finglas, because they don't realise yes they live in a lovely area but that's because it's from the council!

Shocking attitude tbh.

Anyone here on boards identify themselves as working class?

Would your career/income/educational background match the traditional views on working class, and if not, why do you consider yourself to be working class?

lainey_d_123

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone here on boards identify themselves as working class?

Would your career/income/educational background match the traditional views on working class, and if not, why do you consider yourself to be working class?

I identify as working class.

No, my career, income and education don't match the traditional views, but I went in a very different direction to most of my family because I had big dreams about travelling, working abroad, etc. Went to a good university with lots of middle class (and posh) people, got a Master's, didn't earn big money because I graduated into the recession but spent a few years working abroad and learning new languages/cultures. Now I make alright money (not loads, but could potentially make a lot more if I stick in this career path).

I still consider myself to be working class because of my background and upbringing. I haven't had any of the advantages middle class people usually have like educated parents, good schools, growing up in a nice place, family connections, etc. My mentality is still very much working class. I have a scarcity mindset, I worry a lot about money and the future and security far more than any of my middle class friends. I don't think I'd ever be able to not be upset about breaking a laptop/phone or anything else expensive, or order food/drink out without carefully considering the price or get a taxi/Uber home instead of the bus on a regular basis, or any of the other things my friends do without batting an eyelid.

lainey_d_123

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I identify as working class.

No, my career, income and education don't match the traditional views, but I went in a very different direction to most of my family because I had big dreams about travelling, working abroad, etc. Went to a good university with lots of middle class (and posh) people, got a Master's, didn't earn big money because I graduated into the recession but spent a few years working abroad and learning new languages/cultures. Now I make alright money (not loads, but could potentially make a lot more if I stick in this career path).

I still consider myself to be working class because of my background and upbringing. I haven't had any of the advantages middle class people usually have like educated parents, good schools, growing up in a nice place, family connections, etc. My mentality is still very much working class. I have a scarcity mindset, I worry a lot about money and the future and security far more than any of my middle class friends. I don't think I'd ever be able to not be upset about breaking a laptop/phone or anything else expensive, or order food/drink out without carefully considering the price or get a taxi/Uber home instead of the bus on a regular basis, or any of the other things my friends do without batting an eyelid.

But you went to a good university..

you can be middle class and not live in a nice place. I'm from Athlone, when Athlone was one of the biggest ****holes in Ireland (with the crime to match), and family connections have never helped me with anything beyond a place to crash for a few days. My parents and siblings all constantly worry about money, or paying the mortgage (my parents have paid their mortgage off but my siblings haven't), and they worry about what the future might bring that will screw them further.

TBH I'm struggling to understand how you're working class. Or your perception of what us middle class people are like. Most middle class I know would be concerned with all the things you listed. I went to Sligo IT, and then Athlone IT. Hardly exclusive colleges, and not even university standard. I didn't go to a university until I was a mature student and went back on my own steam.

I do find it interesting the way people in Ireland perceive the differences between working class and middle class like there's a huge difference. There doesn't seem to be. Sure, there are working class people on the lower end of salaries struggling to make ends meet, but many of the posters here are describing situations far different than that. Perhaps it's different in Dublin, but in the rest of the country, the difference isn't that large.