WiFi between 2 houses 250m with trees in way

cojo78

Hi,

Does anyone have any experience of connecting two houses with internet across a distance of approx. 250m, with lots of trees in the way?

The main house has Eir fibre broadband wired, with a WiFi router. The second house is rarely used, doesn't have a phone line etc. I'd like to investigate the possibility of connecting the second house via ethernet or alternatively some sort of antennas.

Ethernet would be travelling over our own land, but would.have to cross the road. I think I could use an existing drain for this.

The antenna option would be affected by the trees which run between both houses. I suppose I could clear some branches (a lot of branches) to achieve a clear line of sight...but I'd rather not.

Any ideas?

antodeco

How much/often would the BB be used in the other house? You can get decent enough mobile broadband that might be more suited to the house. The cost of running cables etc, and equipment, would probably be more expensive that the cost of actual BB for the other house.

cojo78

antodeco wrote: »

How much/often would the BB be used in the other house? You can get decent enough mobile broadband that might be more suited to the house. The cost of running cables etc, and equipment, would probably be more expensive that the cost of actual BB for the other house.

Hi,

I'm aware of that, and normally use my phone's hotspot. Works well, but I would like to have a full time internet connection there for security purposes. It's an isolated house in a rural location.

crashplan

Max distance for ethernet connection would be around 100 meters without repeaters in the system. At a distance of 250 meters you would need a fibre connection between the 2 houses. If the phone signal is good a 4G data modem would be a cheaper and easier solution for always on connection for security etc.

cojo78

crashplan wrote: »

Max distance for ethernet connection would be around 100 meters without repeaters in the system. At a distance of 250 meters you would need a fibre connection between the 2 houses. If the phone signal is good a 4G data modem would be a cheaper and easier solution for always on connection for security etc.

Thanks, I'm aware of that. I'm looking for suggestions of how to connect to the internet from the main house connection. I'm aware of 4G modem options.

crashplan

Outdoor wifi extenders may work but would probably require more than 1 extender to get the 250 meters thru trees. TP Link do a few different models available online.

loyatemu

you can buy point-to-point outdoor kits that operate as a wireless ethernet connection, but the trees would probably still cause problems.

ED E

Thats within range of multimode. Run the fiber, two SFP optics, two small switches. Done. No electrical potential problems, no lightning risk. Inert.

Edge8 x 2 = 350€
SFP x 2 = €40
Fibre = 100-200€

The Real B-man

ED E wrote: »

Thats within range of multimode. Run the fiber, two SFP optics, two small switches. Done. No electrical potential problems, no lightning risk. Inert.

Edge8 x 2 = 350€
SFP x 2 = €40
Fibre = 100-200€

Then all the conduit work

ED E

Direct burial might be appropriate, out of scope for me.

65535

Just a thought - are they electrically run from the same transformer - would a mains extender work ?

MrMusician18

ED E wrote: »

Thats within range of multimode. Run the fiber, two SFP optics, two small switches. Done. No electrical potential problems, no lightning risk. Inert.

Edge8 x 2 = 350€
SFP x 2 = €40
Fibre = 100-200€

No need for that expensive gear. A pair of media converters and pre terminated fibre will do the job.

You could always put the antennas at a height over the trees, or if it was a tree Grove you could use an additional pair of links (say powered by solar) to go around the trees

JustAThought

why go to ll the expense and drama -
most people have wifi on their phones - if the house is rarely used why bother -most people who visit would have s smartphone and their own portable wifi. Trees take a lifetime to grow.

ED E

JustAThought wrote: »

why go to ll the expense and drama -
most people have wifi on their phones - if the house is rarely used why bother -most people who visit would have s smartphone and their own portable wifi. Trees take a lifetime to grow.

Read the thread, its for CCTV.

like to have a full time internet connection there for security purposes. It's an isolated house in a rural location.

Lucifer

Check this out. Might be suitable for what you want

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKCYFicd2NI

oscarBravo

65535 wrote: »

Just a thought - are they electrically run from the same transformer - would a mains extender work ?

Definitely not.

Lucifer wrote: »

Check this out. Might be suitable for what you want

900MHz is licence-exempt in the USA, but it absolutely isn't here - not a good idea.

loyatemu

300m of armoured fibre cable here is going to cost you the bones of a grand (& if you don't use armoured you're looking at digging and installing ducts). Definitely want to look for a wireless solution.

65535

oscarBravo wrote: »

Definitely not.

So the OP has tried it ?

bk

Probably cheaper and easier just to go with a mobile hotspot.

Gomo, €13 per month for 80GB of data + a 4G router. For the cameras use ones that use local storage (either NVR or SD cards) rather then cloud storage, Notifications and the odd check on the cameras should be fine within the 80GB cap on gomo.

oscarBravo

65535 wrote: »

So the OP has tried it ?

A mains extender won't work if the respective sockets are on different MCBs, never mind if they're in different houses. They barely work if they're plugged into extension leads.

Lewis_Benson

Mpoint to point antennae is your best bet if you can clear the trees.
This is probably best posted in Net and comms.

KOR101

This is what I use. No trees about 150m in my case but absolutely does the trick.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Antenna-Booster-Laptop-Caravans-Motorhomes-White/dp/B00BBU7BNM

KOR101

KOR101 wrote: »

This is what I use. No trees about 150m in my case but absolutely does the trick.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Antenna-Booster-Laptop-Caravans-Motorhomes-White/dp/B00BBU7BNM

looks like an inexpensive option but only seems to work with a laptop?

(seemed like OP was thinking of using an alarm system)

could possibly create a hotspot from a laptop that is connected to this I suppose.

kippy

The biggest issue here with any of the point to point wireless stuff is that you'll have an initial investment made and not really know whether it will work well enough or not without having had to set it up/configure it. Bit risky.
Any physical setup is going to require Fibre and all that that entails. Messy and expensive I'd think.

Finally, as others have said the most efficient and best option is a 4G wireless router with a GoMo or 3 unlimited SIM in it.
Less than a €100 for the wireless router, €10-20 per month for the SIM.
Should do everything required, with a less complex and expensive setup, with less to go wrong.

Indeed, if you had a spare unlocked smartphone around the place you could use that as your wireless router/hotspot and save another €100.

MrMusician18

loyatemu wrote: »

300m of armoured fibre cable here is going to cost you the bones of a grand (& if you don't use armoured you're looking at digging and installing ducts). Definitely want to look for a wireless solution.

Have to say I'm surprised at the advice the OP is getting here, and armoured cable enterprises level switches! For a few piddling cameras?! Armored cable is the best of course and the absolute right way to do it, buried a metre below ground with warning tape and the like. This is not of course the cheapest way, since you'd be looking at well north of 5k for the trenching alone. So does the OP need the kind of resilience that an install like this offers? He's not running a mission critical server farm in this second house, just a few CCTV cameras and a network connection - I doubt it

50m of multimode SC/SC cable can be picked up online for $25 delivered. Fish that through the necessary length of wavin for protection, using couplers for to get the length you need (also offers the advantage that if a section gets damaged, the whole line doesn't need replacing). Some people think fibre needs to be babied, it doesn't, just don't manhandle it or pinch it. 10/100 media converter pairs can be picked up cheap too, I got two, three years ago for $12/pair.

The mobile 4g solution mightn't be that so straightforward, particularly for remote viewing. As far as I know, only 3 Ireland don't do carrier NAT and can provide you with your own IPV4 address on request. It won't be static so you'll also need a DNS service. It's an absolute pain in the hole and would recommend the OP avoid. Use P2P links or fibre.

antodeco

Just something to give you an idea of a 4G connection (I know you said you dont want to go down this route, but just to give you an idea of what I do). I run 3 seperate sites of CCTV, all running on a 4G connection. 1 x Vodafone, 1 x Three and 1 x GoMo. I use onsite recording (SD Card), with live notifications. I dont go over 50GB a month, unless I am sitting there watching the camera live (which is also an option, but you will be using about 5GB a day depending on how many cameras are being used). I am able to remotely log in a view all cameras as needed. I use a Huawei B3500 on all sites, local 32GB SD card in each camera, and basic IP Cameras. It just meant additional portability if needed. I have 7 cameras in total (2 x 2 site, 3 x 1 site).

randombar

cojo78 wrote: »

Hi,

Does anyone have any experience of connecting two houses with internet across a distance of approx. 250m, with lots of trees in the way?

The main house has Eir fibre broadband wired, with a WiFi router. The second house is rarely used, doesn't have a phone line etc. I'd like to investigate the possibility of connecting the second house via ethernet or alternatively some sort of antennas.

Ethernet would be travelling over our own land, but would.have to cross the road. I think I could use an existing drain for this.

The antenna option would be affected by the trees which run between both houses. I suppose I could clear some branches (a lot of branches) to achieve a clear line of sight...but I'd rather not.

Any ideas?

I use ubiquiti Nano stations between a couple of houses, 350m +, some branches in the way, not many, so far it has been bullet proof.

nagel

what type are the trees in the way, if there evergreens los could be a problem . if not as garycocs said a pair of nanostations, I have a pair of loco m2,s linking shed 400 m away no problems in 6 years since they were set up. head over to crosstalk solutions on youtube for configuration advice

loyatemu

MrMusician18 wrote: »

50m of multimode SC/SC cable can be picked up online for $25 delivered. Fish that through the necessary length of wavin for protection, using couplers for to get the length you need (also offers the advantage that if a section gets damaged, the whole line doesn't need replacing). Some people think fibre needs to be babied, it doesn't, just don't manhandle it or pinch it. 10/100 media converter pairs can be picked up cheap too, I got two, three years ago for $12/pair.

it's 250m (and that's as the crow flies from what the OP says), where are you planning to put this wavin pipe? The cable I linked to (which I didn't recommend on account of the price) can be buried directly.

something like this should do the job if you can get line-of-sight:
https://wifigear.co.uk/ubiquiti-airmax-litebeam-lbe-5ac-23-kit

KOR101

KOR101 wrote: »

This is what I use. No trees about 150m in my case but absolutely does the trick.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Antenna-Booster-Laptop-Caravans-Motorhomes-White/dp/B00BBU7BNM

I should add that the person I connect to has their router in the corner of a room well way from the window. Surprising but true.

bk

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The mobile 4g solution mightn't be that so straightforward, particularly for remote viewing. As far as I know, only 3 Ireland don't do carrier NAT and can provide you with your own IPV4 address on request. It won't be static so you'll also need a DNS service. It's an absolute pain in the hole and would recommend the OP avoid. Use P2P links or fibre.

Most modern IP cameras come with cloud service that allows you to receive notifications and view the live feed without needing to mess with Dynamic DNS, etc.

I've Yi Cameras that cost just €20 that can do this. They can take an SD card for local recording, which you can then view via their app and cloud service.

KOR101

KOR101 wrote: »

I should add that the person I connect to has their router in the corner of a room well way from the window. Surprising but true.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Antenna-Booster-Laptop-Caravans-Motorhomes-White/dp/B00BBU7BNM

would be certainly worth trying.

you could send it back to amazon for only the cost of return postage if it didn't work and only costs £40 to begin with.

but does seem like it needs a laptop (to connect to and then to create a wifi hotspot from that laptop on the laptop's built-in wifi for other things to connect to) so unless the OP has a spare one (any old one would do), may not be an option.

niallb

How big are the trees really?
Can you see any of the other house at all from the top of your house?
A few branches between you might block a lot less than a wall in a house.

It's only 250m, and a pair of nanostations or more powerful equivalent would have no problem with a much greater distance with a clear line of sight. They take power over Ethernet and are small, light and easily mounted.

What's your budget for this?

cojo78

niallb wrote: »

How big are the trees really?
Can you see any of the other house at all from the top of your house?
A few branches between you might block a lot less than a wall in a house.

It's only 250m, and a pair of nanostations or more powerful equivalent would have no problem with a much greater distance with a clear line of sight. They take power over Ethernet and are small, light and easily mounted.

What's your budget for this?

I got up on the roof yesterday. The line of sight is completely obscured by trees and branches these days. I've found a spot where the growth may be lighter, and I could try to clear some branches...but there's a lot. Not dense, just a lot.

I've looked at a kit including Ubiquit Nano Loco 2s, but I have no experience with these, and I'm unsure if be able to clear the view sufficiently. TV Tech Ireland is selling a 'preconfigured' kit for €165 on Adverts.

From what I can gather, I connect one nano to the router in House A, and the second to another router in House B, and it works. Not sure if switches are required at either end. If they are this pushes up the price.

KeRbDoG

To the OP - I have both two houses connected via single-mode fiber optics and another house by a point to point wireless.

The point to point link I have isn't that long (200m-ish) and it goes through trees at an angle, I can't go above them - and while during the summer the speed slightly drops, it still just works. Not the fastest but it works and quite stable but it doesn't get a massive amount of use. I have Ubiquiti NanoBeam AC units. The UBNT NanoStation Loco M2 units you mention are a good bet, their radios are 2.4Ghz which should pass through trees better than only 5Ghz units.

The fiber link can be done on the cheap, if you just want to put down a small trench you can use hydro pipe. Pre-terminated obviously handy if you don't have access to a splicer(man). Media converter both ends, for a 1G stable/fast link. Easy when you know how etc.

The antenna solution is worth trying first, worst case you can sell them on adverts/eBay/here if they don't work out.

From what I can gather, I connect one nano to the router in House A, and the second to another router in House B, and it works. Not sure if switches are required at either end. If they are this pushes up the price.

One end can be plugged into whatever internet/router unit you might have. The other end, depends on whats already there, if you are planning for Networked CCTV you prob already have a network plan for that location so bodge it in there

cojo78

KeRbDoG wrote: »

To the OP - I have both two houses connected via single-mode fiber optics and another house by a point to point wireless.

The point to point link I have isn't that long (200m-ish) and it goes through trees at an angle, I can't go above them - and while during the summer the speed slightly drops, it still just works. Not the fastest but it works and quite stable but it doesn't get a massive amount of use. I have Ubiquiti NanoBeam AC units. The UBNT NanoStation Loco M2 units you mention are a good bet, their radios are 2.4Ghz which should pass through trees better than only 5Ghz units.

The fiber link can be done on the cheap, if you just want to put down a small trench you can use hydro pipe. Pre-terminated obviously handy if you don't have access to a splicer(man). Media converter both ends, for a 1G stable/fast link. Easy when you know how etc.

The antenna solution is worth trying first, worst case you can sell them on adverts/eBay/here if they don't work out.


One end can be plugged into whatever internet/router unit you might have. The other end, depends on whats already there, if you are planning for Networked CCTV you prob already have a network plan for that location so bodge it in there

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. The kit sold by TV Tech Ireland looks to have everything I need. I can experiment with positioning the receiver, and clearing some branches, as the trees aren't dense, but there are a lot of them. It's worth trying, and selling the gear if it fails.

I think that's what I'm going to attempt first.

Thanks for all the input. I'll report back once I've made an attempt to connect.

The Cush

This is the kit from their own site - https://www.freetv.ie/wireless-bridge/

YouTube setup video here - https://youtu.be/hrEEOV5oA8Y

KeRbDoG

The Cush wrote: »

This is the kit from their own site - https://www.freetv.ie/wireless-bridge/

YouTube setup video here - https://youtu.be/hrEEOV5oA8Y

Great video btw

Marlow

cojo78 wrote: »

I got up on the roof yesterday. The line of sight is completely obscured by trees and branches these days. I've found a spot where the growth may be lighter, and I could try to clear some branches...but there's a lot. Not dense, just a lot.

Anything 2.4 GHz or 5 GHz won't work reliable so.

And also, not sure if this has been mentioned: Nevermind the restriction of cat5e/cat6 of 100m, there is gear that you can do 100 Mbit/s full duplex on cat5e/cat6 over a length of 1km .. but that's neither here nor there.

Building regulations and connecting 2 premises with a copper cable, you'd be in trouble. Alone from a fire prevention perspective.

Fibre is your only friend. And the stuff is dead cheap these days.

/M

gearoid!

This is quite old, but decided to post my opinion just in case someone will find it viable.

You can use a point to point wireless bridge. You can search for it online. Saw one model from Tenda, it's pretty cheap. It's called MW6.

You can order one, set it up on a pole, high enough for clear line of sight. Then switch it to Access Point mode. Next, set your wifi router to client mode and connect to the MW6 AP - this is where you're main internet should be at.

Or setup 2 MW6 and pair them using wps.

You could also try FTTH to connect two nodes using Fiber.

Another feasible option would be, setup one router on each point/node and one should act as client while the other is server. Then install external/outdoor antenna to each router. You can google for Poynting WLAN-61 wifi router antenna

akasudonim

Marlow wrote: »

Building regulations and connecting 2 premises with a copper cable, you'd be in trouble. Alone from a fire prevention perspective.

Marlow would you mind expanding on that please? I have two buildings connected via CAT5 in a buried Hydrodare water pipe - wondering how that contravenes building regs, especially from a fire perspective?

Marlow

akasudonim wrote: »

Marlow would you mind expanding on that please? I have two buildings connected via CAT5 in a buried Hydrodare water pipe - wondering how that contravenes building regs, especially from a fire perspective?

A lightning strike can travel from one premise to another on the copper cable.

If it's not been installed by a certified electrician and signed off, it becomes a liability.

/M

nagel

Marlow wrote: »

A lightning strike can travel from one premise to another on the copper cable.

If it's not been installed by a certified electrician and signed off, it becomes a liability.

/M

I am not disputing what you say

does this not also apply to eircom lines Ok they have some protection using gas discharge to earth
, but with a direct lightning strike they offer some protection,
also there are lots lines going directly between offices /garages to houses

and is there not a similar risk with esb lines going into houses

oscarBravo

nagel wrote: »

I am not disputing what you say

does this not also apply to eircom lines Ok they have some protection using gas discharge to earth
, but with a direct lightning strike they offer some protection,
also there are lots lines going directly between offices /garages to houses

and is there not a similar risk with esb lines going into houses

ESB and phone lines have grounding designed into the network, and even at that, I've seen some horrific damage done to homes due to lightning strikes on phone lines.

The question is: how would you go about ensuring that you haven't created any grounding problems by running a copper wire between premises? And, if you don't know how to answer that, should you be running copper wires between premises?

Marlow

oscarBravo wrote: »

ESB and phone lines have grounding designed into the network, and even at that, I've seen some horrific damage done to homes due to lightning strikes on phone lines.

Also, ESB lines are all fused.

Any DIY installation is unlikely to have that sort of stuff taken into account.

/M

Gooey Looey

Also phones are powered from the exchange, not your house

Marlow

Gooey Looey wrote: »

Also phones are powered from the exchange, not your house

Generally yes.

That's exactly the culprit, where lightning hits most often: if somebody has a cordless phone, router, modem, alarm system, an answering machine or a fax machine (the last two not so often anymore) connected to the phone line and hence also plugged into the power in the house.

That's when a lightning strike on the phone line fries every other appliance in the house.

But yes, with a traditional phone that never was a problem.

/M

mikeecho

I'm in the process of setting up sharing my internet connection with another house that's about 100m away.
There is a few trees in the way, but I don't think it'll be an issue, as I can currently see their WiFi (Huawei dongle) from my location.

I opted for a pair of Ubiquiti nano M5 loco's
I'll be using the window mounts and both locos will be mounted internally.
I had to buy poe injector's as well. (€170 all in , Inc shipping & insurance)

They are claiming to have a 10km range, so 100m with a few trees, shouldn't be a problem.. and if they are, a chainsaw will remove a few branches.

Gooey Looey

mikeecho wrote: »

They are claiming to have a 10km range, so 100m with a few trees, shouldn't be a problem.. and if they are, a chainsaw will remove a few branches.

You need to Google "Fresnel zone clearance"
Clear line of sight doesn't mean just barely visible. A tree is the worst obstacle to try get a signal through, especially when full of leaves and moving, worse when wet. You'd be better with a hill in the way (*_*)

Marlow

mikeecho wrote: »

There is a few trees in the way, but I don't think it'll be an issue, as I can currently see their WiFi (Huawei dongle) from my location.

Seeing their dongle is not enough, nor the issue. It only becomes apparent, when you connect and try to push some bandwidth across said connection. That's when things go to pot.

The SSID (signal), you can even receive from reflections.

/M

mikeecho

A chainsaw will fix that problem