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Has it worked anywhere

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    #92
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,504 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    GreeBo wrote: »
    These high rise/density houses that people are advocating here...where do we think they are going to be built?

    Do we want high rises in Stepaside and Cherrywood?

    Stepaside has no public transport, Cherrywood is going to be a disaster once all those apartments come online, and its also going to negatively impact Sandyford, Dundrum and everyone along the way.

    High Density needs to be in the city centre, to avoid people having to travel anywhere to work imo.

    Stepaside is with in a pleasant walk to the luas and so is cherry wood, what is your definition of public transport.


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    #93
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    GreeBo wrote: »
    These high rise/density houses that people are advocating here...where do we think they are going to be built?

    Do we want high rises in Stepaside and Cherrywood?

    Stepaside has no public transport, Cherrywood is going to be a disaster once all those apartments come online, and its also going to negatively impact Sandyford, Dundrum and everyone along the way.

    High Density needs to be in the city centre, to avoid people having to travel anywhere to work imo.

    Did anyone suggest Stepaside?

    Of course you would build them city centre or near to the city centre. Why is everyone making up reasons that nothing can be done.


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    #94
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    GreeBo wrote: »
    These high rise/density houses that people are advocating here...where do we think they are going to be built?

    Do we want high rises in Stepaside and Cherrywood?

    Stepaside has no public transport, Cherrywood is going to be a disaster once all those apartments come online, and its also going to negatively impact Sandyford, Dundrum and everyone along the way.

    High Density needs to be in the city centre, to avoid people having to travel anywhere to work imo.

    in the docklands and on browfield sites, other areas like the core, should be mid rise, like 8-10 floors. Redevelop old industrial estates as proposed, a good few of these are on luas line. The thing about cherrywood is, its going to be a town centre itself. The likes of cherrywood, is a half asses solution, much of it 5-6 floors, why not double this or thereabouts? then you bring the metro out to cherrywood instead of sandyford and extend further down south, as were the original plans... Then people living in the areas get better public transport and it can support more new development. Whats the alternative? lop 5 floors off my ten floor proposal and simply double the land use, a few minutes down the road? thats the idiocy of the current system...


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    #95
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    GreeBo wrote: »
    These high rise/density houses that people are advocating here...where do we think they are going to be built?

    Do we want high rises in Stepaside and Cherrywood?

    Stepaside has no public transport, Cherrywood is going to be a disaster once all those apartments come online, and its also going to negatively impact Sandyford, Dundrum and everyone along the way.

    High Density needs to be in the city centre, to avoid people having to travel anywhere to work imo.

    the city cente as a location, yes, is the most urgent, 21,000 homes completed here last year? how many of them were in central dublin? 900! It is beyond a joke! DCC have done their best to bring us this crisis for years "oh look its not a cereal box with a set back" lets shoot it down :rolleyes:


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    #96
    ChikiChiki
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    GreeBo wrote: »
    These high rise/density houses that people are advocating here...where do we think they are going to be built?

    Do we want high rises in Stepaside and Cherrywood?

    Stepaside has no public transport, Cherrywood is going to be a disaster once all those apartments come online, and its also going to negatively impact Sandyford, Dundrum and everyone along the way.

    High Density needs to be in the city centre, to avoid people having to travel anywhere to work imo.

    It should be docklands. People could actually walk to work.


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    #97
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,339 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    the city cente as a location, yes, is the most urgent, 21,000 homes completed here last year? how many of them were in central dublin? 900! It is beyond a joke! DCC have done their best to bring us this crisis for years "oh look its not a cereal box with a set back" lets shoot it down :rolleyes:

    Which parties are running DCC?


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    #98
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    Which parties are running DCC?

    a mix of them isnt it? listen, all the coucils are responsible for this farce. A post above mentions the docklands. The irish glass bottle site is near it, E412,000,000 paid for it in 2006 and yes , you did read that figure right, went into NAMA. Many of the blocks in it are 4-5 floors, because there are few houses 30-40m away. The people in these houses are complaining there isnt enough social housing in the development for their kids! So we deprive housing to hundreds or thousands extra, because of a handful of people? this place is a banana republic!


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    #99
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,164 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Did anyone suggest Stepaside?
    There is already high density is stepaside.
    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Of course you would build them city centre or near to the city centre. Why is everyone making up reasons that nothing can be done.
    Excuse me, I'm not "making up reasons", I'm asking where are people actually suggesting these sites are and how many people can be housed in these areas.

    If you actually read my post you would see what I suggested the city centre is the only possible location that would work once the buildings are built, however we need to be realistic about how many high rise apartments we can build within the canals.

    Its a lot cheaper to build on a greenfield site rather than in the city centre, see the childrens hospital for an example.


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Stepaside is with in a pleasant walk to the luas and so is cherry wood, what is your definition of public transport.

    "A pleasant walk"? Come off it. How pleasant would that walk have been over the last 3 weeks?
    Its 15-25 mins depending on where you are in Stepaside and depending on Glencairn or Gallops stops.

    Best of luck getting on the luas anywhere North of Cherrywood once those apartments open.


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    #100
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    GreeBo wrote: »
    There is already high density is stepaside.


    Excuse me, I'm not "making up reasons", I'm asking where are people actually suggesting these sites are and how many people can be housed in these areas.

    If you actually read my post you would see what I suggested the city centre is the only possible location that would work once the buildings are built, however we need to be realistic about how many high rise apartments we can build within the canals.

    Its a lot cheaper to build on a greenfield site rather than in the city centre, see the childrens hospital for an example.





    "A pleasant walk"? Come off it. How pleasant would that walk have been over the last 3 weeks?
    Its 15-25 mins depending on where you are in Stepaside and depending on Glencairn or Gallops stops.

    Best of luck getting on the luas anywhere North of Cherrywood once those apartments open.
    Sorry if I came across as rude, wasn't really directed at you, just a lot of people coming up with reasons that we can't do it rather than suggestions. We are in agreement on city centre though.


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    #101
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    as if they will develop good transport here, thats proven. They need to put the new accomodation close to existing villages and good transport etc, which cuts down the need for driving or means you dont have to drive. this low density, just means further expansion and sprawl!


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    #102
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,339 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    Yurt! wrote: »
    The monthly rent is €1,550 for a one-bed, €1,990 for a two-bed and €2,499 for a three-bed. Most of the tenants are from abroad, the Irish ones are on HAP.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0218/1116105-vesta-apartments-twinlite/

    Find this part difficult to believe:

    'He said the current sales price for suburban property does not cover the construction costs for builders.' I'd translate that as 'we can make a killing on build to rent in this market here lads.'

    If this is part of FG's success story of loads of new units coming on stream, count me out of the celebration party.

    Your translation of this is taking an apple and complaining that you don't like it as an orange.

    What they are saying is that it's more cost effective to build apartment blocks than housing estates. Given the equivalent suburban land area, it's too expensive to build houses based on what buyers can afford due to central bank rules.


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    #103
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    Your translation of this is taking an apple and complaining that you don't like it as an orange.

    What they are saying is that it's more cost effective to build apartment blocks than housing estates. Given the equivalent suburban land area, it's too expensive to build houses based on what buyers can afford due to central bank rules.


    You're drawing inferences from what the spokesperson said that simply aren't there. He made no mention of houses.

    '...as it was uneconomical to build and sell individual apartments.'

    That, I suspect, is PR b*llocks saying that they can't turn a buck selling apartments to individual buyers in the current climate.

    Funds however, can make a killing on rental, and they know the political and social climate does not look kindly on this activity.


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    #104
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    Yurt! wrote: »
    You're drawing inferences from what the spokesperson said that simply aren't there. He made no mention of houses.

    '...as it was uneconomical to build and sell individual apartments.'

    That, I suspect, is PR b*llocks saying that they can't turn a buck selling apartments to individual buyers in the current climate.

    Funds however, can make a killing on rental, and they know the political and social climate does not look kindly on this activity.

    Especially when said funds don't have to pay taxes like average joes have to .


    https://twitter.com/paddycosgrave/status/1230120193290051587?s=19


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    #105
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,164 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    smurgen wrote: »
    Especially when said funds don't have to pay taxes like average joes have to .


    https://twitter.com/paddycosgrave/status/1230120193290051587?s=19

    How is that the governments fault?


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    #106
    jester77
    Registered Users Posts: 11,264 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    smurgen wrote: »
    Start looking at German cities also and you'll see almost all of them hammer Dublin.Salaries more of less the same as Dublin while rents are 50-90% cheaper e.g Hamburg.oh and don't look at the childcare cost comparison unless you want a heart attack.

    https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Germany&city1=Hamburg&country2=Ireland&city2=Dublin

    Well, it is nigh on impossible to find a place to rent in Hamburg. You will usually have 50+ people at a viewing. Rents are controlled which keeps the prices down.

    Regarding child care, you pay through taxes. If I was working in Dublin on the same salary as here I would have an extra 300 or 400 in my pocket every month after tax.

    Same for health care, I pay well over 600 a month for my mandatory health insurance and that doesn't even include my kids, they are extra. Plus I have to cover the first €600 of medical costs per year before I can make a claim on the insurance.

    If you want good services, you have to pay for them.


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    #107
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Well, it is nigh on impossible to find a place to rent in Hamburg. You will usually have 50+ people at a viewing. Rents are controlled which keeps the prices down.
    yes, which would be the same in dublin, if not worse in dublin. if you even make it to the viewing stage in dublin, you have done bloody well


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    #108
    solidasarock
    Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭solidasarock


    Anyone can walk around Dublin for a half hour and see all the empty, rotting buildings and see the "we dont have room" excuse isnt worth its salt.

    The wider centre of Dublin is so decrepit and run down compared to every other Western capital city I have been to.

    There will always be issues and supply and demand is never perfectly in sync but we could be doing a lot better with the space we have.


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    #109
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    solidasarock wrote: »
    Anyone can walk around Dublin for a half hour and see all the empty, rotting buildings and see the "we dont have room" excuse isnt worth its salt.

    The wider centre of Dublin is so decrepit and run down compared to every other Western capital city I have been to.

    There will always be issues and supply and demand is never perfectly in sync but we could be doing a lot better with the space we have.

    YEAH and the biggest cuplrits are those incompentent morons in DCC , in their ivory towers! talking about this histroric core and how we should never change! The state of much of the historic core, is incredible, given we have now had two booms. Then a modern business district in the docklands with class architecture and a new vibrant city quarter? No, we get a suburban looking business park with cornflake boxes :rolleyes: and people trekking in from 50km out, when they could just take a lift 50m down and walk to work :rolleyes:


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    #110
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,946 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    solidasarock wrote: »
    Anyone can walk around Dublin for a half hour and see all the empty, rotting buildings and see the "we dont have room" excuse isnt worth its salt.

    The wider centre of Dublin is so decrepit and run down compared to every other Western capital city I have been to.
    You only need to look at the gaping gap in the west side of O'Connell St to get an idea of the waste of space going on.

    But gods forbid Agnes and Paddy have to look at 30m tall monstrosities on their weekly shuffle to collect their pensions...:rolleyes:


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    #111
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,146 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    This is an example of how we're in the state we're in

    https://twitter.com/TomLyonsBiz/status/1230776591665582080


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    #112
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,164 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    This is an example of how we're in the state we're in

    https://twitter.com/TomLyonsBiz/status/1230776591665582080

    But this is a city council, not the government.


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    #113
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    the docklands and the failure it is, really sums it up here. Looks like some failed suburban business park :rolleyes:


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    #114
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,146 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    GreeBo wrote: »
    But this is a city council, not the government.


    I'm not quite sure if you're being sarcastic here...

    Anyone that points all the blame at the government just shows that they don't understand the issues involved.

    DCC and other councils hold a lot of blame too (as does NIMBYism etc).


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    #115
    KaneToad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,387 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    jimwallace197 wrote: »
    There is always a demand for housing especially for housing in preferred locations so high housing costs and issues around housing will always be there.

    Take our own country for example, how much of a housing crisis would there be if the government took a harder stance on this and insisted on people who are availing of rent allowance/Hap or social housing to not have a choice in the county where they avail of this free housing.

    Yes, you will have the argument that some people who are not in well paying jobs need to live in the capital also but would it be impossible for them to find a job of this type in another location where housing costs are not so high. Also,no one has the divine right to a property or a house.

    We as a country are far too soft on this. I see it every week where people who are incredibly entitled expect to live close to their family and friends without contributing anything towards the cost

    Not every job in Dublin city is high paying. Its elitist to suggest that "free" housing should only be outside he city.


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    #116
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    You only need to look at the gaping gap in the west side of O'Connell St to get an idea of the waste of space going on.

    But gods forbid Agnes and Paddy have to look at 30m tall monstrosities on their weekly shuffle to collect their pensions...:rolleyes:

    There's more to it than that though.
    There is a very strong cultural and legal aversion in this country to the idea that property rights can be circumscribed for the public good. As a result speculators can leave derelict eyesores in Dublin city centre and elsewhere with impunity. The vacant site tax was a novel departure to address this but doesn't go far enough and is loopholed fairly easily.

    This contrasts markedly with many other countries.


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