Domestic Solar PV Quotes 2020

DrPhilG

Good to hear, it sounded good to me alright.

@gomamochi1 that's the boys alright. I can't remember though, didn't you get the bigger battery? They had originally quoted €11k pre grant which was already pretty solid, €7.4k after grants.

I dropped the battery down to the standard 2.4kWh. My best case calculations suggest that the bigger battery would only give me an extra €40 a year so essentially more than 27 years payback on the extra, lol.

I'm still haggling, they only have a standard 5 year warranty on the inverter. I'm going to see if they'll add the extended 5 years for 10 total.

DrPhilG

unkel wrote: »

I think that's the best deal we have seen in this thread so far. Nice one!

I'm just waiting for confirmation of the price by email. I've been working off the €11k one and cutting bits off.

DrPhilG

More silly questions...

1 - If the inverter is only able to cope with 6kw input, and I've already got 6kw on the roof, then in theory I can't add any more on the house.

However...
Given that you'll rarely (if ever) get the full 6kw from the panels, could I still add 2kw on the house so that when the sun is setting and the garage panels are (for example) only getting 4kw, the 2kw on the house will produce the other 2kw for full power?

I'll stick with the 6kw for now as that's under the grant. But I will have the cabling in place to future proof if I wanted to add 2kw on the house later. I know I could split the 6 into 4 on the garage and 2 on the house but I'm just looking at all options.

DrPhilG

Silly question number 2

How hard is it to add batteries later? The install will have a 2.4kw Pylon battery and the installer is quoting €1100 for another 2.4kw.

But if I picked up another battery down the line, second hand or if the prices dropped etc, are they easy to configure into an existing system?

OnLooker

Looking into expanding the capacity on my hot water tank as part of this project.

Would anyone have any tank recommendations and a ball park figure on the install cost? Thanks again

DrPhilG

DrPhilG wrote: »

I'm just waiting for confirmation of the price by email. I've been working off the €11k one and cutting bits off.

DrPhilG wrote: »

I'm still haggling, they only have a standard 5 year warranty on the inverter. I'm going to see if they'll add the extended 5 years for 10 total.

Bingo!

Got the 10 year warranty thrown in, same price.

championc

DrPhilG wrote: »

Silly Questions
1 - If the inverter is only able to cope with 6kw input, and I've already got 6kw on the roof, then in theory I can't add any more on the house.


2 - How hard is it to add batteries later? The install will have a 2.4kw Pylon battery and the installer is quoting €1100 for another 2.4kw.

But if I picked up another battery down the line, second hand or if the prices dropped etc, are they easy to configure into an existing system?

1. To the best of my knowledge, the inverter max rating will be to a particular voltage. Most 24v panels have a mid to high 30's volts, so while the current may be low to zero when the sun is setting, the volts could still be high.

You have to adhere to the voltages on the panel specs since in cold winter cloudless skies, the voltage shoots up.

2. It may well just be a base of changing the capacity from 2.4kw to 4.8kw or whatever

DrPhilG

Solar grant approved, charger grant submitted and pending.

PS my total capacity is down to 5.6kwp, went with the 310w panels instead of 340w for aesthetic reasons.

Still a great price.

garo

DrPhilG wrote: »

Silly question number 2

How hard is it to add batteries later? The install will have a 2.4kw Pylon battery and the installer is quoting €1100 for another 2.4kw.

But if I picked up another battery down the line, second hand or if the prices dropped etc, are they easy to configure into an existing system?

Adding batteries is super easy. I plan to add one if they become affordable and there is no FIT. See this thread and search youtube for videos.
https://powerforum.co.za/topic/3606-advice-required-adding-an-additional-pylontech-battery/
Excellent quote by the way. I am so jealous. Should have waited another year for the install. Mind PMing me the name of the company just for my curiosity?

garo

DrPhilG wrote: »

I dropped the battery down to the standard 2.4kWh. My best case calculations suggest that the bigger battery would only give me an extra €40 a year so essentially more than 27 years payback on the extra, lol.

This was absolutely the right decision.

garo

DrPhilG wrote: »

More silly questions...

1 - If the inverter is only able to cope with 6kw input, and I've already got 6kw on the roof, then in theory I can't add any more on the house.

However...
Given that you'll rarely (if ever) get the full 6kw from the panels, could I still add 2kw on the house so that when the sun is setting and the garage panels are (for example) only getting 4kw, the 2kw on the house will produce the other 2kw for full power?

I'll stick with the 6kw for now as that's under the grant. But I will have the cabling in place to future proof if I wanted to add 2kw on the house later. I know I could split the 6 into 4 on the garage and 2 on the house but I'm just looking at all options.

As championc said it really depends on voltage and current limits.
Max voltage on JA 310s is 40V. https://www.jasolar.com/uploadfile/2018/0803/20180803102956815.pdf

You cannot add more than 13 based on the operating voltage here:
https://midsummer.ie/pdfs/solis-hybrid.pdf
I would keep it down to 12 possibly lower to be safe but I honestly don't have the expertise to make that call.

DrPhilG

garo wrote: »

You cannot add more than 13 based on the operating voltage here:
https://midsummer.ie/pdfs/solis-hybrid.pdf
I would keep it down to 12 possibly lower to be safe but I honestly don't have the expertise to make that call.

???

If I can't have more than 13 panels, why is the installer quoting me for 18?

KCross

DrPhilG wrote: »

Well...

My latest quote is 6kwp JA panels, 2.4kWh battery, Solax water diverter, 5wk Solis hybrid inverter, tethered Zappi charger, plus the usual monitoring etc.

€9.9k total

€3.6k in grants (solar + charger)

€6.3k net.

Since your on a roll with your negotiating skills try to hit them for the Zappi hub as well. It’s worth getting imo.... you’ll probably tell us it’s already included!

You mentioned monitoring above. I presume that’s just the default Solis monitoring? With the appropriate CT clamps the Zappi hub gives good overall house detail/graphs.

DrPhilG

KCross wrote: »

Since your on a roll with your negotiating skills try to hit them for the Zappi hub as well. It’s worth getting imo.... you’ll probably tell us it’s already included!

You mentioned monitoring above. I presume that’s just the default Solis monitoring? With the appropriate CT clamps the Zappi hub gives good overall house detail/graphs.

Well it's all on hold given the info from Garo above!

garo

DrPhilG wrote: »

???

If I can't have more than 13 panels, why is the installer quoting me for 18?

Sorry I should have clarified. That's 13 panels per MPPT. So a total of 26. So theoretically you'd get 8kW input.

Read the documents I linked

DrPhilG

garo wrote: »

Sorry I should have clarified. That's 13 panels per MPPT. So a total of 26. So theoretically you'd get 8kW input.

I don't understand much of what you said and I have no idea what an MPPT is...

But I think it means that 8kw is the most I could attach to that system, the 5.4kw going in initially is all good, and in theory I could have a perfect sunny day and produce/use the full 5.4kw.

I was about to transfer the deposit but stopped when I saw the previous post, lol.

garo

Yes that's what I meant. The Solis is a dual MPPT inverter. That means you can attach two sets of panels, say East and West facing. You don't want panels facing different directions on the same MPPT as that reduces output from all panels on the MPPT to the lowest producing panel unless you add optimizers to each panel.

Long story short. I think you are good to go and you can probably add another 2kW on top of the 6kW but you'll need to line up your ducks regarding voltage, current, max wattage on either MPPT string not exceeding 4kW, and panels on same MPPT string facing the same way. And after all that your output will still be capped at 5kW.

This is a good starter article if you want to understand MPPT.
https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2014/02/dual-mppt-defined-understanding-mppt/

gomamochi1

KCross wrote: »

Since your on a roll with your negotiating skills try to hit them for the Zappi hub as well. It’s worth getting imo.... you’ll probably tell us it’s already included!

You mentioned monitoring above. I presume that’s just the default Solis monitoring? With the appropriate CT clamps the Zappi hub gives good overall house detail/graphs.

It includes the zappi hub i think.

DrPhilG

garo wrote: »

Yes And after all that your output will still be capped at 5kW.

Lost me again...

Why bother with a 6kw system never mind an 8kw if you can't use more than 5?

DrPhilG

gomamochi1 wrote: »

It includes the zappi hub i think.

Did your quote list the hub? Mine doesn't.

Just says 1 x tethered Zappi charger.

Hub is less than €100 though I think, wouldn't be hard to add in.

The quote is for the Solic 200 diverter, not Solax I think I said before. About half the price of the eddi I think.

garo

DrPhilG wrote: »

Lost me again...

Why bother with a 6kw system never mind an 8kw if you can't use more than 5?

If you have a 5 kW inverter it will never output more than 5kW! What do you think the 5kW in the inverter’s specification stands for?

DrPhilG

garo wrote: »

If you have a 5 kW inverter it will never output more than 5kW! What do you think the 5kW in the inverter’s specification stands for?

Yeah but it has a 6.5kw input so I'm confused again (no surprise).

Why have the capacity to receive 6.5kw if it's never going to be able to use it!

DrPhilG

Just been in touch with the installer.

Myenergi hub is optional. So presumably about €100 extra. Doubtful I'll be able to haggle further as I've already accepted and done the grant approval.

Eddi is an option, but he says the eddi only has a 1 year warranty while the Solic has 10.

Thoughts? Any benefit of the Zappi over the Solic?

DrPhilG

DrPhilG wrote: »

Yeah but it has a 6.5kw input so I'm confused again (no surprise).

Why have the capacity to receive 6.5kw if it's never going to be able to use it!

Simplified answer from the installer.

installer wrote:

The inverters work better under pressure ie you would fit a 3.6 inverter for a 4 or 4.5kw system rather than a 4 or 4.5 inverter as you say it would never get to full capacity as it is measured in light per square meter.


What it means, with your system it would maintain a higher output for longer with the 5kw inverter than it would with a 6kw inverter meaning you are not losing out. Your system 5.4 in theory will produce 5.4 x 0.8 = 4320kwp at full capacity

The 0.8 is the average figure for Ireland ie 800watts of light per square meter. If you were living in Cork it would be over 900 as you are future south.

championc

DrPhilG wrote: »

Yeah but it has a 6.5kw input so I'm confused again (no surprise).

Why have the capacity to receive 6.5kw if it's never going to be able to use it!

1. Oversizing systems is to give you enough power to run the house load on sh1te days like these currently.

2. The max output is only at around solar noon, and then drops off. So your output will be far less mid morning and mid afternoon.

Look at my live system data via the link in my posting on the Monthly Solar Performance thread. That monitoring is free with Sofar Inverters

DrPhilG

So Solic vs Eddi

Seems to be about a €200 price difference plus the eddi has less warranty.

Not worth it so?

Gazzler82

OnLooker wrote: »

Looking into expanding the capacity on my hot water tank as part of this project.

Would anyone have any tank recommendations and a ball park figure on the install cost? Thanks again

I got an an indication of a 1k to go from 120l to 300l all in. Didn’t proceed.

OnLooker

Gazzler82 wrote: »

I got an an indication of a 1k to go from 120l to 300l all in. Didn’t proceed.

What make/type of tank was that quote for?

garo

DrPhilG wrote: »

Yeah but it has a 6.5kw input so I'm confused again (no surprise).

Why have the capacity to receive 6.5kw if it's never going to be able to use it!

6.5kW is the capacity if every single panel is receiving direct sunlight at a 90 degree angle.You won't get that most of the time in Ireland so you will be producing less than 6.5kW. I have a 4.8 E/W system and the max I have seen is 4 kW. It all depends on tilt and orientation. You get 6.5kW so that when it's cloudy you produce 2kW rather than 1kW.

And no Eddi/Solic are hardly worth the extra money unless you use immersion to heat your water instead of gas/oil.

unkel

DrPhilG wrote: »

Simplified answer from the installer.

"The inverters work better under pressure ie you would fit a 3.6 inverter for a 4 or 4.5kw system rather than a 4 or 4.5 inverter"

Yeah that's a load of bollix. It was a rule of thumb in ancient history because inverters back then were very inefficient if not under near full load. For current gen inverters that's not the case - they will be near peak efficiency whether they are loaded 50%, 100% or 150%

That said, there is little harm in having more watt peak panels than your inverter. I have that myself, my inverter is 3.6kW max and my panels add up to 4.1kwp

Gazzler82

OnLooker wrote: »

What make/type of tank was that quote for?

Tank plus installation. Didn’t bother looking any further

irishchris

New to this and looking around at some quotes. This one is for 3k along with the grant. What are people's thoughts on its value?

Solar PV 4.2kw – 14 Panels
x14 SolarWatt ECO 60M 300 Watt All Black
5kw Growatt SPH5000 Hybrid Inverter
4.8 kwh Pylontech Li-ion Battery
Monitoring kit -ShineLink
EDDI Immersion diverter kit (optional)
Roof mounting kit, wiring sensors relays etc

Geeyfds53573

So you pay 6k are they SEAI approved? That’s as good as a spec I’ve seen at that price but some of the more knowledgeable guys here might comment on the equipment- could I get a pm on the the company details please and any others you get that come near this figure please.

irishchris wrote: »

New to this and looking around at some quotes. This one is for 3k along with the grant. What are people's thoughts on its value?

Solar PV 4.2kw – 14 Panels
x14 SolarWatt ECO 60M 300 Watt All Black
5kw Growatt SPH5000 Hybrid Inverter
4.8 kwh Pylontech Li-ion Battery
Monitoring kit -ShineLink
EDDI Immersion diverter kit (optional)
Roof mounting kit, wiring sensors relays etc

_dof_

Geeyfds53573 wrote: »

So you pay 6k are they SEAI approved? That’s as good as a spec I’ve seen at that price but some of the more knowledgeable guys here might comment on the equipment- could I get a pm on the the company details please and any others you get that come near this figure please.

Seems to be the best quote by a good margin that I've heard of. Please send me PM with the company name.

unkel

irishchris wrote: »

New to this and looking around at some quotes. This one is for 3k along with the grant. What are people's thoughts on its value?

Solar PV 4.2kw – 14 Panels
x14 SolarWatt ECO 60M 300 Watt All Black
5kw Growatt SPH5000 Hybrid Inverter
4.8 kwh Pylontech Li-ion Battery
Monitoring kit -ShineLink
EDDI Immersion diverter kit (optional)
Roof mounting kit, wiring sensors relays etc

Surely €3k is a typo? The cheapest quotes in this thread for a similar system are around €6k

Geeyfds53573

I'd assume so too.

DrPhilG

Looks like someone got the price of the system and the value of the grant mixed up.

irishchris

Yes think I may have been tricked by the numbers here https://pvsolarireland.com/seai-solar-pv-grant/

Separately decided to go with 2.1kw system with different supplier. New to this so anything I should be looking at or tips? What are people's opinions for A 2.1 system? Too small?

unkel

How can you have decided if you don't really know how much the quotes you got will actually cost you?

DrPhilG

I've asked before, a long time back, but I'll go again.

Does anyone ever actually apply for planning for these installations?

KCross

DrPhilG wrote: »

I've asked before, a long time back, but I'll go again.

Does anyone ever actually apply for planning for these installations?

Shhh!

py

py wrote: »

12 * JA Solar 340W panels
2 * 2.4K Pylon Tech battery
Solis invertor
Iboost

€6,600 after grant.

Any thoughts?

This is for a S-SE facing house. Family of 4, with myself likely to be based 100% WFH going forward. The other 3 are school based so they'll be at home when school is off. No electric vehicles and unlikely to be for 5+ years.

py wrote: »

So an update to this.

Increase of the above panels to allow for 16 of them and then an upgraded inverter would add €1,500 to the quote. Original quote above is actually €100 over, seems I fat fingered the post so it should've been €6,500. Based on the discussions in here the past few days, I'm going to see if I can get a quote for the install without the battery and hybrid inverter. The DIY installs that a few have discussed is defo out, we've got a slope of 45 degrees on a 2 storey house so it's not something I'm going to tackle.

Got a quote for a non battery/iboost system.

16 * JA Solar 340W panels
5Kw Solis invertor

€5,700 after grant.

Trying to work out repayment duration. What sort of usage % of the power generated would people expect for a non battery/iboost system? 30-40%?

KCross

py wrote: »

Got a quote for a non battery/iboost system.

16 * JA Solar 340W panels
5Kw Solis invertor

€5,700 after grant.

Trying to work out repayment duration. What sort of usage % of the power generated would people expect for a non battery/iboost system? 30-40%?

So, 4kWp with battery was €6600
You've now asked for 5.4kWp with no battery and its €5700

Why did you increase the number of panels?

There is a point of diminishing returns in relation to the number of panels you put up UNTIL there is a FeedInTariff.

If you want to future proof it for that then fair enough but we have no sight of when FiT will come and what way it will be constructed price wise. It could be pittance or it could really make sense to super size your system... we just dont know.


If I were you I'd stick with 4kWp (no battery) and get the price down under €5k (€4700ish).
If you are happy with the 5kWp you should probably get a higher capacity inverter.

DrPhilG

KCross wrote: »

Shhh!

Is that:

A - nobody does it because nobody ever checks for it?

B - it's disputed, don't open up that can or worms again?

C - you don't need it.

KCross

DrPhilG wrote: »

Is that:

A - nobody does it because nobody ever checks for it?

B - it's disputed, don't open up that can or worms again?

C - you don't need it.

lets just say I havent heard of too many on here applying for it. None of the installers I spoke to were asking for it and just replied with ("thats up to you... wink wink nod nod")

If you have a particularly backward council that have nothing better to do they might chase you but I doubt they will... you have to take your own chances on that.... anyone near you have it done, see how they got on?

DrPhilG

There's a few Donegal folk on here who had had installs.

Anyone want to comment? By PM if you think Big Brother may be watching.

So essentially it is a requirement but nobody does it and the council rarely check.

Also didn't Limerick council go after some woman last year and she beat them in court?

KCross

DrPhilG wrote: »

Also didn't Limerick council go after some woman last year and she beat them in court?

yup, they forced her to remove a load of the panels first though! She has subsequently won the appeal so I presume she is putting them back up.
https://www.limerickpost.ie/2019/07/25/landmark-planning-decision-to-allow-limerick-solar-panels/


regulations havent changed yet though.

DrPhilG

KCross wrote: »

yup, they forced her to remove a load of the panels first though! She has subsequently won the appeal so I presume she is putting them back up.
https://www.limerickpost.ie/2019/07/25/landmark-planning-decision-to-allow-limerick-solar-panels/

regulations havent changed yet though.

Found this on the Donegal council site:

Donegal Coco wrote:

Q - Do I need permission to install a solar panel?

A - No, provided that:

• the total aperture area of any such panel, taken together with any other such panel previously placed on or within the said curtilage, shall not exceed 12 square metres or 50% of the total roof area, whichever is the lesser.

• the distance between the plane of the wall or a pitched roof and the panel shall not exceed 15 centimetres.

• the distance between the plane of a flat roof and the panel shall not exceed 50 centimetres.

• the solar panel shall be a minimum of 50cm from any edge of the wall or roof on which it is mounted.

• the height of a free-standing solar array shall not exceed 2 metres, at its highest point, above ground level.

• a free-standing solar array shall not be placed on or forward of the front wall of a house.

• the erection of any free standing solar array shall not reduce the area of private open space, reserved exclusively for the use of the occupants of the house, to the rear or to the side of the house to less than 25 square metres.

Does 50% of the total roof area mean 50% of the property roof, or 50% of the area of roof its on?

I'll be covering almost all of one side of the garage, but only about 15% of the combined house & garage.

Mickeroo

DrPhilG wrote: »

Found this on the Donegal council site:




Does 50% of the total roof area mean 50% of the property roof, or 50% of the area of roof its on?

I'll be covering almost all of one side of the garage, but only about 15% of the combined house & garage.

It will be more than 12 square metres so you technically need planning I would have thought.

KCross

DrPhilG wrote: »

Found this on the Donegal council site:




Does 50% of the total roof area mean 50% of the property roof, or 50% of the area of roof its on?

I'll be covering almost all of one side of the garage, but only about 15% of the combined house & garage.

Thats the standard regulation across the country it seems.


At 6kWp you will be exceeding that regulation by a very wide margin!
Its the 12 square metres bit you would miss.