Domestic Solar PV Quotes 2020

DrPhilG

Checked with the installer. Dropping the Solic hot water diverter would only drop the overall price by €160.

KCross

DrPhilG wrote: »

Checked with the installer. Dropping the Solic hot water diverter would only drop the overall price by €160.

Thats not so bad then. I thought you were getting an Eddi or iBoost or one of those €500 ones.

DrPhilG

KCross wrote: »

Thats not so bad then. I thought you were getting an Eddi or iBoost or one of those €500 ones.

Well that's the thing...

I'd prefer an Eddi as it seemingly integrates better with the Zappi. No sense in getting the Solic if the Zappi treats it like a battery and sends excess to there rather than the actual battery, or if it sends there all the time rather than exporting (once there is a FiT).

But the Eddi would of course be in the price range you mention, and in the event of a FiT would become a €500 paperweight.

championc

DrPhilG wrote: »

I'd prefer an Eddi as it seemingly integrates better with the Zappi. No sense in getting the Solic if the Zappi treats it like a battery and sends excess to there rather than the actual battery

Two words of caution :-

1. If you get a Hybrid Inverter, you cannot get the Zappi to even see let alone prioritize charging a car. The hybrid inverter will always charge the batteries with surplus first.

2. If you had a separate storage inverter, you can prioritize MyEnergi products over the battery charging, but note I said "products" since if you have a Zappi and an Eddi, both will be done first before the battery.

If you only had a Zappi, and didn't connect it, then the batteries would recharge. Also, if surplus was less than 1.4kw, it would again go to the batteries.



So you cannot set a priority like Zappi, Batteries, Eddi. Maybe one day they might give this option.

I'm generally referring to ECO+ mode on a Zappi. You could go for ECO which will draw power from both the PV and batteries

mikep

Hi all

I am thinking of bundling an system installation with other work that has to be done on the house.

Does anyone think it might be wise to hold off until further government plans are announced, particularly the July stimulus...maybe a resurrection of the HRI??

championc

mikep wrote: »

Hi all

I am thinking of bundling an system installation with other work that has to be done on the house.

Does anyone think it might be wise to hold off until further government plans are announced, particularly the July stimulus...maybe a resurrection of the HRI??

If you were getting anything done with the roof, get the roof brackets installed. That doesn't need to include the mounting rails. The rails can clamp onto the brackets at a later stage.

But there no benefit in holding off on anything, unless your sole motivation would be based on incentives

DrPhilG

championc wrote: »

So you cannot set a priority like Zappi, Batteries, Eddi. Maybe one day they might give this option.

I'm generally referring to ECO+ mode on a Zappi. You could go for ECO which will draw power from both the PV and batteries

Damn there is no end to the info overload, lol.

My only worry would be that the excess would be flogged to the grid at 5c instead of into the car and saving 8c.

Sonif I make life more straightforward, sack the water diverter and just have 4 options for what is produced.

Am I right in thinking that the first port of call will always be to run the house and the choice only applies to excess over and above the house needs?

So for the excess, does it then prioritise:
1 - battery
2 - car
3 - grid
?

championc

DrPhilG wrote: »

So for the excess, does it then prioritise:
1 - battery
2 - car
3 - grid
?

Correct if you get a Hybrid Inverter. The minimum (based on Type 2 specs) power required to charge a car is 1.4kw.

Of course, with your proposed system, your battery will be filled in no time on a good day. I've no idea as to whether you can control the rate of charging of a hybrid connected battery, but it may be more beneficial to have the battery charge gradually across part of the day, while charging the car simultaneously.

Search YouTube for the EV Puzzle channel and look at his latest video about this very subject

DrPhilG

championc wrote: »

Correct if you get a Hybrid Inverter. The minimum (based on Type 2 specs) power required to charge a car is 1.4kw.

Of course, with your proposed system, your battery will be filled in no time on a good day. I've no idea as to whether you can control the rate of charging of a hybrid connected battery, but it may be more beneficial to have the battery charge gradually across part of the day, while charging the car simultaneously.

Search YouTube for the EV Puzzle channel and look at his latest video about this very subject

I'll have a look at that video tomorrow, thanks.

Do I have control over the order of prioritisation? As in, could it be set to go:
1 - house
2 - car
3 - battery

Since the car only charges with 1.4kw excess, then a lower amount would trickle the battery to full and charge the car when the excess is high enough.

championc

DrPhilG wrote: »

I'll have a look at that video tomorrow, thanks.

Do I have control over the order of prioritisation? As in, could it be set to go:
1 - house
2 - car
3 - battery

Since the car only charges with 1.4kw excess, then a lower amount would trickle the battery to full and charge the car when the excess is high enough.

It will always be house first, but it really cannot be battery after car with a hybrid inverter since the battery will gobble up the power before it's surplus is made available for anything else, or exported.

A Zappi can only read the surplus power that leaves the inverter. It cannot read the power generated prior to power being diverted to the battery, since that battery is essentially onboard.

If the battery was linked to it's own separate inverter and was it's own separate system (like a Tesla Powerwall), then it can in that configuration be measured.

DrPhilG

Just another reason to cancel the water diverter then I suppose.

The more potential destinations for the excess, the more complicated it gets. If its definitely house 1st, definitely battery second, then a choice between Zappi or export depending on how much is spare, it seems a bit more straightforward.

Just might need a fair bit of tweaking.

championc

DrPhilG wrote: »

Just another reason to cancel the water diverter then I suppose.

The more potential destinations for the excess, the more complicated it gets. If its definitely house 1st, definitely battery second, then a choice between Zappi or export depending on how much is spare, it seems a bit more straightforward.

Just might need a fair bit of tweaking.

The Zappi is a fantastic piece of kit. You will be future proofed if the likes of an Octopus Agile tariff finds it way to Ireland.

In time, for those with separate Powerwalls, it will surely be possible to charge a car before a Powerwall, or have both charging concurrently, without needing to "fudge" the settings to make it happen

DrPhilG

What would be your recommendation for the breakdown of panel placement?

Garage is mostly south facing with a hint of west.

House is mostly west facing with a hint of north.

I've got 18 panels coming, how would you split them? During the day the standard usage going by the monitor I have attached is about 0.7 with it obviously increasing after 5pm when we get home from work. Battery is 2.4kWh and I've ditched the water diverter.

During the day I could run washing machine and tumble dryer on timers or via smart connection to use up the excess. We normally tend to run them overnight on cheaper tariff but running them from excess would be even better. We would easily do a dryer load once a day.

Evening we have cooking, (oven is electric) TV/Sky, occasional electric shower etc. Plus I can plug the car in at that stage.

So how do I best maximise the system? Max I can have on the garage is 10. On the house I have loads of space so as much as I can fit on one string of the inverter. I have 18 panels quoted, but I could add another 2 and stay within the 6.5kwp max.

MAULBROOK

DrPhilG wrote: »

What would be your recommendation for the breakdown of panel placement?

Garage is mostly south facing with a hint of west.

House is mostly west facing with a hint of north.

I've got 18 panels coming, how would you split them? During the day the standard usage going by the monitor I have attached is about 0.7 with it obviously increasing after 5pm when we get home from work. Battery is 2.4kWh and I've ditched the water diverter.

During the day I could run washing machine and tumble dryer on timers or via smart connection to use up the excess. We normally tend to run them overnight on cheaper tariff but running them from excess would be even better. We would easily do a dryer load once a day.

Evening we have cooking, (oven is electric) TV/Sky, occasional electric shower etc. Plus I can plug the car in at that stage.

So how do I best maximise the system? Max I can have on the garage is 10. On the house I have loads of space so as much as I can fit on one string of the inverter. I have 18 panels quoted, but I could add another 2 and stay within the 6.5kwp max.

Check out suncalc.net.
you can see the orientation of the sun for the year and make a call from that.
its bacic but handy

DrPhilG

MAULBROOK wrote: »

Check out suncalc.net.
you can see the orientation of the sun for the year and make a call from that.
its bacic but handy

I take it that site is more user friendly on a laptop? I can't make head nor tail of it on the phone. I can move the focal point around etc but I have no clue what the lines equate to.

I'll have a look next time I'm on a desktop/laptop.

MAULBROOK

DrPhilG wrote: »

I take it that site is more user friendly on a laptop? I can't make head nor tail of it on the phone. I can move the focal point around etc but I have no clue what the lines equate to.

I'll have a look next time I'm on a desktop/laptop.

desktop/laptop far better, play around and you will get the hang of it.

phester28

http://suncalc.net/#/51.8871,-8.4681,19/2020.07.17/08:55

if i had 4 x 300 east from the above and 3 west

My east get perpendicular sun at about 8.30am but from 1pm to 3pm they will have sun but what % of Wp would you expect from them during this time. How close to the test 1000 irradiance curve is our summer sun?

I am still guessing what my setup will get once installed not in the form of KWhr but just peak as I may not have enough say 2Kwp to run washing machine totally off grid

I'm waiting on the all clear from the submission of the NC6 form now and hopeful that I can get a 4th west facing but its very tight so will have to wait until they are up there fitting

MAULBROOK

phester28 wrote: »

http://suncalc.net/#/51.8871,-8.4681,19/2020.07.17/08:55

if i had 4 x 300 east from the above and 3 west

My east get perpendicular sun at about 8.30am but from 1pm to 3pm they will have sun but what % of Wp would you expect from them during this time. How close to the test 1000 irradiance curve is our summer sun?

I am still guessing what my setup will get once installed not in the form of KWhr but just peak as I may not have enough say 2Kwp to run washing machine totally off grid

I'm waiting on the all clear from the submission of the NC6 form now and hopeful that I can get a 4th west facing but its very tight so will have to wait until they are up there fitting

http://suncalc.net/#/51.8872,-8.4679,19/2021.01.01/08:55

1st jan is the lowest

championc

Can I suggest that you look as to what time it is when the sun hits your west facing house roof. It will be dependent too on the slope / pitch of the roof. As every day now goes by, the sun will get lower, shallowing out that angle.

So does your west facing roof have a fully unobstructed view of the horizon to the South West around to the West ? I mean, no bushes or trees, no hillsides.

A south facing panel will today get sunlight from maybe 07:00 to 19:00 - about 12 hours. It may be that your west panels will only see sunshine from 12:00 to 21:00 - so about 9 hours.

However, with those 9 hours, they are well covering your higher teatime and evening usage better, and it could be said the overall coverage is therefore 07:00 to 21:00 - so about 14 hours.

Given that you have potential for large generation and small batteries, there is a chance on good days to deplete the batteries and recharge them during the same day.

Decisions, decisions !!!

DrPhilG

championc wrote: »

Can I suggest that you look as to what time it is when the sun hits your west facing house roof. It will be dependent too on the slope / pitch of the roof. As every day now goes by, the sun will get lower, shallowing out that angle.

We're on top of a hill, so an almost clear line to the horizon. Late night blurry pic attached (I'll take a better one tomorrow), plus a pic of the front of the house to show angle of house and shed.

championc

That nearly looks like a 45 deg slope on the roof ? So it would be good for you to get an idea over the weekend as to what time of day it is before sunshine would hit panels on that roof

However, with a solid concrete back yard, and assuming the back of the house is facing west, that surface will reflect light better than tarmac or grass, so should help gains on bright cloudy days

DrPhilG

championc wrote: »

So it would be good for you to get an idea over the weekend as to what time of day it is before sunshine would hit panels on that roof

As in the main house roof? So what time the sun pops over the top of the house and starts lighting up the back of the roof.

I'll try to check tomorrow.

Actually I have a cctv camera on the corner of the garage facing into the dog run.

I might swivel it around tomorrow so it's facing the back of the house instead. Then even if I'm out, I can play back to see when the light hits it.

championc

There really is a sizable difference in output between when then the sun is somewhat visible behind a cloud layer, and not being visible.

So on a sunny day, panels in the shade of the (house) roof ridge really will only produce 1 or 2 hundred watts, until the sun's rays hit them.

Geeyfds53573

6.5 kwp max - thought it was 6? Or is that cause the 6.5 will only produce <6?


quote="DrPhilG;114063855"]What would be your recommendation for the breakdown of panel placement?

Garage is mostly south facing with a hint of west.

House is mostly west facing with a hint of north.

I've got 18 panels coming, how would you split them? During the day the standard usage going by the monitor I have attached is about 0.7 with it obviously increasing after 5pm when we get home from work. Battery is 2.4kWh and I've ditched the water diverter.

During the day I could run washing machine and tumble dryer on timers or via smart connection to use up the excess. We normally tend to run them overnight on cheaper tariff but running them from excess would be even better. We would easily do a dryer load once a day.

Evening we have cooking, (oven is electric) TV/Sky, occasional electric shower etc. Plus I can plug the car in at that stage.

So how do I best maximise the system? Max I can have on the garage is 10. On the house I have loads of space so as much as I can fit on one string of the inverter. I have 18 panels quoted, but I could add another 2 and stay within the 6.5kwp max.[/quote]

garo

DrPhilG you are overthinking it. Put 10 on the garage and rest on the house. It is always a trade off between maximising total production and matching it against usage. The exact orientation and slope of your roof is far more important and that’s something you can’t do anything about. Shifting a couple of panels from roof to house vice versa will have small impact in the long run.
PS: You have a nice steep angle on your roof. Thank your lucky stars and get on with it.

Geeyfds53573

Hi guys - a few questions please - if the battery and inverter are in one unit and the software allows you to input times to charge/discharge the battery is this not a way to stop the battery charging first thing in the morning?
i.e. priority for hot water

Also if you have separate arrays is there a way to see what they produce separately?

Is the SolarEdge individual panel monitoring System expensive and is it worth it for installs with potential shading loss ?

garo

I can answer the first two questions:
Yes if your inverter allows timed priority you can stop the battery from charging first thing and let the diverted soak up excess above house usage.
If they are in separate strings yes if your inverter monitoring software allows it.

Geeyfds53573

Thanks garo as always
Any inverter software you are aware of that allows monitoring of separate arrays?
Any inverters that takes 3 arrays as input?
Just on query above them queries is 6kw the limit for micro generation? Can you put more assuming it’s won’t make 6? And if it did?

garo wrote: »

I can answer the first two questions:
Yes if your inverter allows timed priority you can stop the battery from charging first thing and let the diverted soak up excess above house usage.
If they are in separate strings yes if your inverter monitoring software allows it.

DrPhilG

9:20pm, sun finally dropping out of sight.

Guaranteed once the system is installed, I'll not see a sunset like that til next May...

garo

Geeyfds53573 wrote: »

Thanks garo as always
Any inverter software you are aware of that allows monitoring of separate arrays?
Any inverters that takes 3 arrays as input?
Just on query above them queries is 6kw the limit for micro generation? Can you put more assuming it’s won’t make 6? And if it did?

I have a Growatt SPH and the Shinelink software allows viewing output of the two panels arrays separately.

I don’t know of any single phase inverter the usual companies are currently installing that takes three strings but I am sure they exist. Might be more expensive.

PV inverters clip excess input so if your inverter is rated 6kW and the panels are generating 6.5, the .5 just gets lost. No big deal and totally normal.

championc

garo wrote: »

PV inverters clip excess input so if your inverter is rated 6kW and the panels are generating 6.5, the .5 just gets lost. No big deal and totally normal.

But you could be heading for exceeding the max input voltage. Input voltages shoot up in cold weather (cloudless frosty winter days)

unkel

championc wrote: »

But you could be heading for exceeding the max input voltage. Input voltages shoot up in cold weather (cloudless frosty winter days)

I know that applies to your inverter, but for most inverters this limit is really high. I have a very commonly used Solis inverter, it's 3.6kW max output and the max input voltage is 600V, that's like 18-19 panels (or near enough 6kwp)

DrPhilG

Apologies, but can anybody confirm the query of a 6kw maximum per household?

The installer says its 6.5kw but others here have said 6kw.

Anyone have a link to the answer? And is this a legal limit, a grant limit or a planning limit?

unkel

What inverter was the installer suggesting of using? Not many would be 6.5kW, more likely 6kW. In which case you are within the ESB limit of 6kW (even if you have say 7kwp in panels)

DrPhilG

unkel wrote: »

What inverter was the installer suggesting of using?

It's a 5kw Solis Hybrid inverter.

https://zerohomebills.com/product/solis-rhi-5k-48es-5kw-solar-hybrid-inverter/

unkel wrote: »

the ESB limit of 6kW (even if you have say 7kwp in panels)

That was what I was curious about, who sets this limit. I'm looking at 6.2kw in panels but I wasn't sure what the point of that ESB limit is, and whether exceeding that would raise any eyebrows with the SEAI or the council.

If the 6kw limit is on what I'm allowed to generate rather than what I'm allowed to install in terms of panels, then I'm fine.

unkel

You're fine with a 5kW inverter so! No matter how many panels you get installed.

DrPhilG

unkel wrote: »

You're fine with a 5kW inverter so! No matter how many panels you get installed.

Happy days.

phester28

Just a quick question about roof penetration for an East West split.
I have vents on one side and it was mentioned to bring cables up and over the top of the roof and bring both sides through the vent.

I would have thought through the fasia and soffets on each side would be more correct

MAULBROOK

Renewable Energy Support Scheme.
MY question is, What's in it for us Solar PVers?

garo

phester28 wrote: »

Just a quick question about roof penetration for an East West split.
I have vents on one side and it was mentioned to bring cables up and over the top of the roof and bring both sides through the vent.

I would have thought through the fasia and soffets on each side would be more correct

I got different ideas from different installers on this. One wanted to use a special waterproof passage within a tile (not vent) another wanted to go through the edge tiles and then use soffits and fascia, the third - which I went with for other reasons - brought them over the top of the roof. I wasn't crazy about that solution but they didn't tell me exactly what they were going to do before they did it. It was a case of don't worry we will handle it.

The first company actually had the best suggestion to take the cables from one side and run them under the converted attic floor to bring the two sets of cables together.

irishchris

Looking at getting a 2.4kw system in shortly and have site visit tomorrow but would ideally prefer not to have inverter in attic. Have hipped roof so no gable and attic area is very small and gets excessively hot in summer. Utility which would be 15-20 metres from panels would be ideal location. Is there any issue with this and have any of you done similar. Cheers

aaronsola

a 6.5kW installed capacity in general terms is 5.4-5.7kWh NET production due to the losses in your system. So a 6kW PV inverter is perfectly fine, you do not need to worry about it. The loses are due to the resistance of the components and the efficiency of your inverter. Depending what type of components you use you will ALWAYS have between 15-20% loss versus the installed solar panel capacity!

unkel

Just saw a production of 3750W coming out of my 3.6kW inverter. Not complaining

aaronsola

aaronsola wrote: »

Depending what type of components you use you will ALWAYS have between 15-20% loss versus the installed solar panel capacity!

I disagree, I can do better. The trick is don't convert to AC.

DrPhilG

Install is happening on Tuesday & Wednesday next week. 6.2kw total, half on the South facing garage, half on the west facing back of the house.

Zappi 2 also.

No water diverter, but I've got a wifi enabled immersion switch ordered so I can kinda manually divert if it happens to be a scorching day and I'm generating more than I'm using.

€50 for the switch beats the pants off €500 for an Eddi.

unkel

Any link to that switch?

DrPhilG

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/SMFSTWIFI.html?source=adwords&ad_position=&ad_id=415703895087&placement=&kw=&network=u&matchtype=&ad_type=&product_id=SMFSTWIFI&product_partition_id=927956798058&campaign=shopping_switches_sockets&version=finalurl_v3&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgYHWp-nh6gIVOYBQBh0-6wzAEAQYAiABEgL-_vD_BwE

I got mine on Amazon for £48.

DrPhilG

Also my tumble dryer is clinging to life by a thread and has been for a while. So when I replace it I'll be getting one with smart control so I can turn it on remotely too.

garo

DrPhilG wrote: »

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/SMFSTWIFI.html?source=adwords&ad_position=&ad_id=415703895087&placement=&kw=&network=u&matchtype=&ad_type=&product_id=SMFSTWIFI&product_partition_id=927956798058&campaign=shopping_switches_sockets&version=finalurl_v3&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgYHWp-nh6gIVOYBQBh0-6wzAEAQYAiABEgL-_vD_BwE

I got mine on Amazon for £48.

Note that the difference between this switch and iBoost/Eddi is that the switch is On/Off whereas the diverters only direct excess so can modulate amount of power going to your immersion. Still something is better than nothing. And you could set up some IFTTT rules if so inclined.

DrPhilG

garo wrote: »

Note that the difference between this switch and iBoost/Eddi is that the switch is On/Off whereas the diverters only direct excess so can modulate amount of power going to your immersion. Still something is better than nothing. And you could set up some IFTTT rules if so inclined.

Oh yeah I know it's nowhere near as complete a solution as an Eddi etc, but it's a tenth of the price so better than nothing.

When I told me wife I was getting it (she's not amused at the loss of the Eddi) she said "why haven't we had this for years"?

We have very sparingly used the immersion over the years, partly because it's expensive, partly because we usually have hot water anyway due to the oil use, and partly because we're wary of forgetting to turn it off again (done this a few times).

So the option for a short boost if we're leaving work and she wants a bath etc is great, plus if monitoring apps etc helps a little with managing excess, even better.