Domestic Solar PV Quotes 2020

maxdevious

Hi ,ive been reading thru these forums trying to soak up as much info as possible and to be fair the level of knowledge and experience being shared is excellent. I'd appreciate any thoughts people have on these quotes

12 x 340W JA Solar PV Panels – 4.08kW
1 x 3.6kW GivEnergy Hybrid Inverter
1 x 5.2kWh GivEnergy Hybrid Battery Storage
1 x EDDI Power Diverter – For Hot Water
Fully Installed & Commissioned with Monitoring

= €7,442 incl. VAT after grant

same system with a 2.6kWh battery was coming in at €6,307 after grant

same system with no battery €5,578

also got this just to see

Maximum solar install across two roofs:

19 x 340W JA Solar PV Panels (6.46kW)
1 x 5kW Solis String Tied Inverter
1 x EDDI Power Diverter
Fully Installed & Commissioned

= €6,826 incl. VAT after grant.
These are all quotes from a nationwide company and im waiting for quotes back from other installers as well.
Thanks

garo

I'd opt for the 2.6kWh battery quote. 6300 is not a bad price for that. See if you can get them to throw in an extra panel or two and uprate the inverter to 5kW if you won't have an E/W install in which case the 3.6 kW inverter is fine. If you can get that for the same price or even a couple of hundred more, go for it.

DrPhilG

lightson wrote: »

Would seem totally crazy to take private msg off the web and consider it a legit recommendation. Especially if it’s not in public view for scrutiny.

I had PMs from probably half a dozen folk on here. It's a perfectly reasonable recommendation because as Garo said, you're only going to get a quote. It's not like opening the PM is a commitment to buy.

I've contacted most of those PM'd companies and the one I used was best by a mile. Also that same company was recommended to me by 3 separate individuals over the space of about a year.

I agree though that forcing people to send pm recommendations is counter productive. It encourages self serving PMs from installers rather than open discussion.

I tried to contact Mods for clarification on whether it is allowed but nobody has replied.

Recommendations should be allowed publicly provided the person doing so is not an installer or interested party, and they have a certain length of time and clean record on boards.

unkel

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

It was €1.20 per watt installed pre-grant. Now it's through the roof.

It is now €1,20 per watt installed after the grant. Including battery. A bargain to the homeowner.

(courtesy of course of the tax payer and the installer now takes more of a cut than before)

gomamochi1

unkel wrote: »

It is now €1,20 per watt installed after the grant. Including battery. A bargain to the homeowner.

(courtesy of course of the tax payer and the installer now takes more of a cut than before)

I think no had a cheaper unit price per kilowatt from that German warehouse storing ja solar panels. Think it was around 70 odd quid per panel if u r fit to fit them yourself.

DrPhilG

Another possible stupid question...

I know that radiated sunlight generates as well as direct, but I'm just curious about the numbers I'm seeing today.

Half an hour ago the garage was making around 1kw and the house 600w.

Now the garage is up to 2kw but the house has dropped to 300w.

The west facing house panels aren't quite into direct sun yet but I'm curious about why their production would drop even though the sun is on the way up.

There are no clouds at all, clear blue skies.

Tis an ongoing education in here.

Edit I just checked again out of curiosity, the garage has dropped to 1.1kw but the house has gone UP to 470w!

KCross

DrPhilG wrote: »

I tried to contact Mods for clarification on whether it is allowed but nobody has replied.

Maybe post the name and if you dont get a reply from the mods on that then problem solved!

unkel

@Phil - I have reported your post, explaining that this issue needs consideration from the moderators. Hopefully they will change the charter and will allow people to post good references on thread rather than via PM only

KCross wrote: »

Maybe post the name and if you dont get a reply from the mods on that then problem solved!

I have used this approach professionally quite a few times, if I didn't get a reply it saved me a lot of work every month that I was obviously doing for nothing previously

DrPhilG

unkel wrote: »

@Phil - I have reported your post, explaining that this issue needs consideration from the moderators. Hopefully they will change the charter and will allow people to post good references on thread rather than via PM only

I already reported a post with the same question yesterday.

garo

garo wrote: »

Yes and that works fine if you know you are likely to be more competent than the installer. That isn't true for most of the rest of us.

I also know the price that they are buying the hardware for and the gulf of disparity between that, labour rates and the final total.


€1.20 per watt was three years ago when solar was double the price.
Adding a battery extends the payback so I'm failing to understand how that's a benefit.
SEAI are hindering the industry more than helping.


It's not just solar also mechanics, builders, plumbers etc..
The Irish attitude "That's the way we've always done it" seems to justify everything.
It was never right in the first place. We're so far below European bar it's embarrassing.

Can someone explain to me using real world evidence why lead acid is not comparable with li-ion for this application? It's less than 33% the cost and recyclable.
I have both lead is my go-to unless I have to lift it.

SlowBlowin

I have 50 Kw h of lead acid installed (rarely use use more than 20 Kw h), been in for 10 years. Both lead acid and Lithium are fragile, but in different ways and I think if you have a battery in your system you need to know the safe limits of its operation so you can spot trouble when it occurs (even BMS and charge controllers go wrong).

The old engineers adage that "batteries NEVER die, they are always murdered", is as true today as its always been.

Try MorningStar Slowblowin'. They don't fail and they will make the battery behave better than you've seen. The missing link is the charger not the chemistry.
I break all the lead rules except 50% usable....I just derate it like all the li-ion manufacturers do with theirs.

garo

Agreed. On a cost-basis a 5kW install with a non-hybrid inverter is 2500 in materials tops. 1000 for the install is generous. So 3500 you have a top system that will pay for itself in 8 years.

SlowBlowin

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Try MorningStar Slowblowin'. They don't fail and they will make the battery behave better than you've seen. The missing link is the charger not the chemistry.
I break all the lead rules except 50% usable....I just derate it like all the li-ion manufacturers do with theirs.

I know you are a fan of Morningstar, and to a lesser extent so am I, but they have some serious issues for me, so I am looking at MidNite next.

You still need to know the parameters, with Lithium if the temp sensor goes or is incorrectly installed you can murder the batteries in a few hours on a frosty day if you are not aware of their temperature sensitivity.

Midnite!? :eek:

Your dollar...I'd go naked first...actually would...panels straight to battery.

Yeah the setting fire if you charge them subzero is a drawback alright....it'll never take off.

Can you not just shield your cables Slow and ground the shield?

SlowBlowin

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Midnite!? :eek:

Your dollar...I'd go naked first...actually would...panels straight to battery.

Yeah the setting fire if you charge them subzero is a drawback alright....it'll never take off.

I have 3 Morningstar MPPT60s on my system at the moment.

I have had 3 failures in 10 years.

I dont really trust equipment you can blow up from the configuration software, this was a known issue for over 6 years before it was finally fixed in the 1 software update they have done in the last 8 years. The software is really what lets them down, the figures displayed in the web interface are often wrong, but they are a reliable unit (2 of the failures were lightning strike).

I am primarily going to Midnite as I need a hydropower mode, and morningstar do not offer hydro on the tristar range. I hate the styling of the Midnite units.

Ah yes I've seen that. I turn off the array before editing settings or firmware. They'll give you a free new one if it's under warranty.
They do do hydro and wind, better than most actually. Email them.

You'll hate the efficiency and noise of the MidNite more...

SlowBlowin

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

They do do hydro and wind, better than most actually. Email them.

Got one working with wind, but never hydro despite plenty of time spent with support. It never finds the optimum MPPT point, it does not give the turbine the time it needs stablise, so it picks voltages that are not optimum.

SlowBlowin

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

You'll hate the efficiency and noise of the MidNite more...

The noise is not an issue if its audio, or do you mean RF noise ?

Was not aware of poor efficiency with the midnite, thats a concern.

SlowBlowin

I just did a quick search and it seems others back up your opinion:

"I have both the Midnight Classic and the Morningstar MPPT 60. I prefer the Morningstar, it runs cooler (less loss) and is fanless (quiet)"

championc

garo wrote: »

If only everyone here had the time and skills of Sir Liam....:D

It's a hell of a lot simpler that some people think.

I'm sure that the majority of installs have been completed in the one day, and they wouldn't exactly have worked from sunrise to sunset !!!

SlowBlowin

SlowBlowin wrote: »

Got one working with wind, but never hydro despite plenty of time spent with support. It never finds the optimum MPPT point, it does not give the turbine the time it needs stablise, so it picks voltages that are not optimum.

Probably best start a thread of your own slowblowin'


Fan noise drive ya crackt.


You can manually dial in the target voltage on their MPPTs traditionally one would use a TriStar PWM in diversion control.


Sorry for off-topic everyone else...I'll cease and desist diverting the merry-go-round

championc

championc wrote: »

It's a hell of a lot simpler that some people think.

I'm sure that the majority of installs have been completed in the one day, and they wouldn't exactly have worked from sunrise to sunset !!!

Even a bad install works some of the day if that's what you mean. Is fast better than thorough? 1 day install decades long legacy....

tails_naf

How much of a quote is the install? It seems 5kwp kits can be had online for just over 4.5k before the grant, so 1.5k after grant. I've heard quotes for supply and install of 10k for same, so is the install cost really 4.5k? Seems excessive to me as I imagine install is a few days at most. Anyone know of installers who are a little more reasonable?

championc

tails_naf wrote: »

How much of a quote is the install? It seems 5kwp kits can be had online for just over 4.5k before the grant, so 1.5k after grant. I've heard quotes for supply and install of 10k for same, so is the install cost really 4.5k? Seems excessive to me as I imagine install is a few days at most. Anyone know of installers who are a little more reasonable?

You're more wrong than you realize. The installers will be able to buy at trade prices, which will give them an additional margin of at least another 20% !!!

tails_naf

championc wrote: »

You're more wrong than you realize. The installers will be able to buy at trade prices, which will give them an additional margin of at least another 20% !!!

I wish I was wrong in thr other direction!! . So what is a good price for a 5kwp system install, and do you know anyone who's doing it?

rx8

tails_naf wrote: »

I wish I was wrong in thr other direction!! . So what is a good price for a 5kwp system install, and do you know anyone who's doing it?

I replied to your PM with the installer that a few of us have used. Let's know how you get on.

championc

tails_naf wrote: »

I wish I was wrong in thr other direction!! . So what is a good price for a 5kwp system install, and do you know anyone who's doing it?

DIY or DIY with sparks assistance, and better still if you can get a sparks to buy the kit at trade prices for you. Trade prices would roughly be the ex-VAT retail prices.

tails_naf

championc wrote: »

DIY or DIY with sparks assistance, and better still if you can get a sparks to buy the kit at trade prices for you. Trade prices would roughly be the ex-VAT retail prices.

It's a crying shame that with 3k from the govt that you could still do it cheaper buying direct and going with a sparks. I'd say itd be tight, 6k out of pocket with approved installer and grant vs 6k with spakrks getting 1.5k for the job and no grant. Might give a few a bell.... Not sure I'd chance the DIY route, the best I've done is DIY my car charger, and that took me 4 hours of sweating running the 16sq cable!

unkel

tails_naf wrote: »

It's a crying shame that with 3k from the govt that you could still do it cheaper buying direct and going with a sparks.

A crying shame and a waste of tax payers money. Much better spent directly on PV, rewarding home and business owners who install PV themselves by paying them for the production that they export. Rather than pay for the labour and the profit of the middle man (installer)

And if you can install a car charge point yourself, you can also install a full PV system. Blood sweat and tears is par for the course but then the reward is great too

idc

Just curious getting an eddi diverter do people wire immersion so first load is for sink and when that is hot enough it then diverts to second connection which would be bath element? Or just send all surplus to bath immersion and not worry about splitting it

_dof_

idc wrote: »

Just curious getting an eddi diverter do people wire immersion so first load is for sink and when that is hot enough it then diverts to second connection which would be bath element? Or just send all surplus to bath immersion and not worry about splitting it

Wire it to both, but set the bath immersion to priority 1 so it gets the surplus first, but it depends on your setup. Typically in Ireland the bath and sink immersion elements are both included in a common boss which is at the top of the cylinder so the twin elements go down into the cylinder side by side with the sink one being short and the bath one being longer, so it heats more water.

The problem is that normally they share a common thermostat, which is short, so it's measuring the temp at the top of the tank. So if you use the sink immersion it heats the top 1/3 of the water until the stat cuts off. Then if you turn on the bath immersion, because it's a common stat, it won't heat up until you've drained off enough of the hot water to reset the stat.

If you look at the Eddi manual, they have two independent immersion elements coming from the side, one at the bottom and one at the top, and they'd have independent thermostats, if you have that, then probably best to set the sink (i.e. top) immersion to priority 1 so you have a small amount it hot water before trying to heat the rest of it.

Note, I don't yet have an Eddi, but I had been thinking about the above issue to see how suitable it would be.

idc

_dof_ wrote: »

. Typically in Ireland the bath and sink immersion elements are both included in a common boss which is at the top of the cylinder so the twin elements go down into the cylinder side by side with the sink one being short and the bath one being longer,

Yes thats how my immersion is. Sales guy from company doing my install has said electrian just wires eddi in at the fuse board thus I can use existing switch in hot press to choose between heating sink/bath.

_dof_

idc wrote: »

Yes thats how my immersion is. Sales guy from company doing my install has said electrian just wires eddi in at the fuse board thus I can use existing switch in hot press to choose between heating sink/bath.

That doesn't sound like a great solution TBH, you wouldn't be able to program boosting sink or bath like you would be able to do if both heating elements were wired to the eddi, e.g. say you wanted to boost the sink immersion at 5pm to have hot water for washing up etc. but wanted to boost the bath immersion during the night (possibly on night rate electricity) to have a full tank for morning showers, you couldn't do that if you still had a manual sink/bath switch in the circuit.

Maybe you also have a mechanical timer near the sink/bath switch? If so, I'd say they should replace the timer and sink/bath switch with the eddi beside the water tank so keep the existing twin and earth back to the fuseboard.

Or if you want the Eddi near the fuseboard, then they should replace the twin and earth cable from the fuseboard to the immersion with a 3 core and earth to include 2 separate live conductors from the Eddi to the immersion, one for the sink element and one for the bath element.

Of course they're electricians and I'm not, so they probably know best, but it doesn't sound great to me.

idc

_dof_ wrote: »

That doesn't sound like a great solution TBH, you wouldn't be able to program boosting sink or bath like you would be able to do if both heating elements were wired to the eddi, e.g. say you wanted to boost the sink immersion at 5pm to have hot water for washing up etc. but wanted to boost the bath immersion during the night (possibly on night rate electricity) to have a full tank for morning showers, you couldn't do that if you still had a manual sink/bath switch in the circuit.

Will look at doco again, knew about boost but didn't realise I could boost them independently but guess it makes sense especially if had two completely different tanks being heated!

_dof_ wrote: »

Or if you want the Eddi near the fuseboard, then they should replace the twin and earth cable from the fuseboard to the immersion with a 3 core and earth to include 2 separate live conductors from the Eddi to the immersion, one for the sink element and one for the bath element.

Preference would be to have eddi on the landing outside hotpress but due to design of house there is nowhere to put it. on either side of it are 2 doors into rooms! and my wife doesn't want it in anyones bedroom! And I'm guessing electrician won't fit it to the door of hot press!!
Optimal solution would be new cable from fuse board but that means lifting carpets and flooring to go from fuse board/eddi - which again not something my wife is happy about (cable for panels/inverter etc will only impact corner of one so thats okay)

championc

_dof_ wrote: »

That doesn't sound like a great solution TBH, you wouldn't be able to program boosting sink or bath like you would be able to do if both heating elements were wired to the eddi, e.g. say you wanted to boost the sink immersion at 5pm to have hot water for washing up etc. but wanted to boost the bath immersion during the night (possibly on night rate electricity) to have a full tank for morning showers, you couldn't do that if you still had a manual sink/bath switch in the circuit.

Maybe you also have a mechanical timer near the sink/bath switch? If so, I'd say they should replace the timer and sink/bath switch with the eddi beside the water tank so keep the existing twin and earth back to the fuseboard.

Or if you want the Eddi near the fuseboard, then they should replace the twin and earth cable from the fuseboard to the immersion with a 3 core and earth to include 2 separate live conductors from the Eddi to the immersion, one for the sink element and one for the bath element.

Of course they're electricians and I'm not, so they probably know best, but it doesn't sound great to me.

Sounds like he wanted a simple way to link the mains CT clamp into the Eddi rather than running a Cat5 to the cylinder, or using a Harvi

And why can you not locate it inside the hotpress ?

idc

championc wrote: »

And why can you not locate it inside the hotpress ?

Don't know just assumed they got installed somewhere more visible and accessible!! My hotpress not sure it would fit. One side is the tank and the other a maze of pipes !!
Although now I think of it when I visited house with solar already home owner wasn't happy her installer had it on landing wall!!

But sounds be worth talking to electrian for other options.

mp3guy

Looking for PM recommendations for a company to install a 12kW PV system (on an agri shed) w/ a hot water diverter, large battery (8kW+) and a compatible EV charger in the Cork area.

rx8

mp3guy wrote: »

Looking for PM recommendations for a company to install a 12kW PV system (on an agri shed) w/ a hot water diverter, large battery (8kW+) and a compatible EV charger in the Cork area.

PM Sent.

tails_naf

I just looked up my MPRN, it looks like my meter was commissioned at the start of Feb 2011. I had heard its the MPRN issue date thats important, can anyone confirm? Looks like I'm just out a luck...

KCross

tails_naf wrote: »

I just looked up my MPRN, it looks like my meter was commissioned at the start of Feb 2011. I had heard its the MPRN issue date thats important, can anyone confirm? Looks like I'm just out a luck...

Yes, that will make you ineligible for the grant and they will look for an ESB letter confirming that date.

mp3guy

mp3guy wrote: »

Looking for PM recommendations for a company to install a 12kW PV system (on an agri shed) w/ a hot water diverter, large battery (8kW+) and a compatible EV charger in the Cork area.

First quote, more to come;

12.2kW system
36 Qcell 340W panels (25 year warranty)
2x 5kWp SolaX inverters (10 year warranty)
2x 5.8kWh SolaX batteries (10 year warranty)
Solar iBoost hot water heater
Zappi car charger
Power cut switch over

€23,150.4 after grant.

graememk

mp3guy wrote: »

First quote, more to come;

12.2kW system
36 Qcell 340W panels (25 year warranty)
2x 5kWp SolaX inverters (10 year warranty)
2x 5.8kWh SolaX batteries (10 year warranty)
Solar iBoost hot water heater
Zappi car charger
Power cut switch over

€23,150.4 after grant.

So 26150.4 ex SEAI grant?

Have you looked into the TAMS II grant? if its on a Agri shed on a farm.

(tams grants are all + Vat costings, I think the flat rate farmers can also claim the VAT back but im not 100% sure)

Going on the Depts Costings

For the solar array : 14076.8
For the battery : 8907.8
Total: 22984.6

If young farmer you can get 60%, but 40% for normal grant.

If at 40%, the grant would be around 9k. The only thing the grant wont cover is the Iboost and charger, but that isnt covered by the SEAI either.

Worth looking into at least. ( also no faffing around with a BER either, but you will have to have done a farm safety course, and actually get approval for the grant too)

mp3guy

graememk wrote: »

So 26150.4 ex SEAI grant?
Have you looked into the TAMS II grant? if its on a Agri shed on a farm.

If young farmer you can get 60%, but 40% for normal grant.

Yes that's the figure pre-SEAI domestic grant.

Unfortunately not a farmer, just a small holding with horses, bit of hay grown for personal use.

idc

mp3guy wrote: »

First quote, more to come;

12.2kW system
36 Qcell 340W panels (25 year warranty)
2x 5kWp SolaX inverters (10 year warranty)
2x 5.8kWh SolaX batteries (10 year warranty)
Solar iBoost hot water heater
Zappi car charger
Power cut switch over

€23,150.4 after grant.

I don't have a similar size system but i did get quote with power cut failover switch (which appears to be rare - most installers I spoke to only talked about providing 2-3 sockets or sub distribution board with 3 circuits that would operate during a power cut)

Battery System (Alpha)

13 x Bisol 310w Monocrystalline modules (All black modules)*
Alpha 5 kWp Inverter kitted to 5.7kWh storage capacity
Eddi (Hot Water Diverter)
Manual Change Over Switch

€8400 after grant

graememk

idc wrote: »

I don't have a similar size system but i did get quote with power cut failover switch (which appears to be rare - most installers I spoke to only talked about providing 2-3 sockets or sub distribution board with 3 circuits that would operate during a power cut)

Yeah as the output on the ups/eps part of hybrid inverters is only about 13amp, you don't want to be overloading it with a cooker and a kettle at the same time.

sphinxicus

idc wrote: »

I don't have a similar size system but i did get quote with power cut failover switch (which appears to be rare - most installers I spoke to only talked about providing 2-3 sockets or sub distribution board with 3 circuits that would operate during a power cut)

Did you specifically ask for this power cut failover switch or was it offered as a unique selling point? It would definately be something that would peak my interest with the regular power cuts we suffer from

mp3guy

sphinxicus wrote: »

Did you specifically ask for this power cut failover switch or was it offered as a unique selling point? It would definately be something that would peak my interest with the regular power cuts we suffer from

It's non-standard with most domestic installs and most suppliers wouldn't entertain it.

If you've ever seen a rural house with a 16A generator port outside for power cuts it would work the same way, there'll be a big massive isolator switch ahead of the main fuse board that can either be set to draw power from the ESB (+ solar), or from the generator (or solar), or no power at all (kill switch). The added complexity with solar is running a dedicated line from your inverter into that isolation switch. More advanced systems could do this automatically for true uninterrupted power, but that's very rare (and probably very expensive).

At least, this is my understanding.