Domestic Solar PV Quotes 2020

tails_naf

MAULBROOK wrote: »

Was that the Clover Lads

No, haven't gotten onto them yet. Hard to see they will beat it, but you never know!

unkel

slave1 wrote: »

Does anyone know the cheapest, minimum sized battery I could install to qualify for the grant?

4 dead car batteries. Cost: €0

slave1 wrote: »

Does the battery need to be new?

no

slave1 wrote: »

Can I not just take it out and sell it after getting grant payment?

yes

And to save even more money, you could sell the hybrid inverter after getting the grant payment and replace it DIY with a normal inverter. That should net you another several hundred quid

This goes to show how stupid this grant system is. Mind in all of the above you would need to find yourself an SEAI installer, approved for PV installs, to do the above install for you so the grant can be claimed. That won't be easy

daughy

championc wrote: »

Your East set will have a very limited timespan to produce I think. What is the 1750 producing in sunshine at 09:00, 10:00 and 11:00. I'm assuming that generation then falls off a cliff at about 14:00 ?

Is the East getting any shading from trees or chimneys, tv aerials etc ?

Great to hear you went the DIY route. That's the way to get to know the system inside out.

Its true the east gets some shading, i have a washing line that until maybe 11am runs a shadow all the way over the east panels, so most likely breaking the circuit. i still have get some tigo optimisers and install them but the company I purchased my system from is having awful issues acquiring them from China with this covid dilemma. Il move the washing line if my wife allows it.
I'm going to move the south facing string west facing and add 3 more panels to each string totalling
2.8kw a string, so 5.6kw in totall, I'm just hoping the overall voltage will be OK as the inverter is rated for 600 volts dc input. At 40 volts open circuit and 16 panels, is 640 volts.
Has anyone had an east west panel setup with something similar?
I could go 2 strings of 7 panels at 350 Watts each, 2.45kw each, 560 volts total. Just to be safe.. anyone got any suggestions

daughy

Also, forgot to mention incase anyone didn't see it, electricity prices are increasing, there won't be any point in selling back to the grid at this stage. Might aswell just divert to a car and or hot water.
Thats my next install.

DrPhilG

slave1 wrote: »

Can I not just take it out and sell it after getting grant payment?

I'm considering that. Thinking of a DIY setup instead.

Hadn't considered switching out the inverter mind you.

DrPhilG

unkel wrote: »

And to save even more money, you could sell the hybrid inverter after getting the grant payment and replace it DIY with a normal inverter. That should net you another several hundred quid

Can you have 2 separate inverters and 2 storage systems?

I currently have 6.2kwp and a Solis hybrid inverter. But I could potentially (way down the line) add another 6.2kwp with DIY battery storage via ex EV batteries.

Can I add them separately to the existing system? Can the house run via power from 2 separate inverters? Or would I need to roll all 40 panels through the same system?

daughy

DrPhilG wrote: »

Can you have 2 separate inverters and 2 storage systems?

I currently have 6.2kwp and a Solis hybrid inverter. But I could potentially (way down the line) add another 6.2kwp with DIY battery storage via ex EV batteries.

Can I add them separately to the existing system? Can the house run via power from 2 separate inverters? Or would I need to roll all 40 panels through the same system?

I was thinking along those lines also, you would need another hybrid inverter.
Two lines shouldn't be a problem to the circuit board, to separate circuit breakers etc. Can you have over 12kwp allowed by the esb? I'm not sure, i thought the limit was 6kwp.
You would need if going to the breaker 4 cables, one inverter production and backup, second inverter the same. Would it be possible if allowed to get a 12kw hybrid with your future system with 4 inputs strings? Not sure if it exists?

graememk

unkel wrote: »

4 dead car batteries. Cost: €0

Flooded Lead acid dont qualify for the grant, Gel Lead acid does


I wonder can i get anything out of the dead tractor batteries i have lying about, I think there is 4 in one shed and one waiting to go into a tractor before the winter....

Or they could be completely wrecked lol

unkel

graememk wrote: »

Flooded Lead acid dont qualify for the grant, Gel Lead acid does

Any link to that? I haven't seen that distinction before. But anyway I recently sold high end AGM lead acid batteries for €62.50 each, so 4 of them for €250 will do for a near 5kWh system

mp3guy

unkel wrote: »

Any link to that? I haven't seen that distinction before. But anyway I recently sold high end AGM lead acid batteries for €62.50 each, so 4 of them for €250 will do for a near 5kWh system

Page 14 https://www.seai.ie/publications/Code-of-Practice-Solar-PV-Grant.pdf

graememk

unkel wrote: »

Any link to that? I haven't seen that distinction before. But anyway I recently sold high end AGM lead acid batteries for €62.50 each, so 4 of them for €250 will do for a near 5kWh system

Can you point me in the right direction of them, thats a hell of a lot cheaper than the pylontech batteries...

I see mp3guy posted the seai document.

Side question, how big can you go on a dual string 6kw inverter, say on a 12 degree roof, with one pointing at 50 degrees and the other at 135, (south is zero, west is 90)

Cos when im up there its not much difference to install 2 extra panels per string.

championc

DrPhilG wrote: »

Can you have 2 separate inverters and 2 storage systems?

I currently have 6.2kwp and a Solis hybrid inverter. But I could potentially (way down the line) add another 6.2kwp with DIY battery storage via ex EV batteries.

Can I add them separately to the existing system? Can the house run via power from 2 separate inverters? Or would I need to roll all 40 panels through the same system?

Myself and Unkel (and possibly others) have got two separate inverters - a normal one and a storage one.

The storage inverter will simply have the battery bank connected on one side and then the AC on the other side.

Both of my units are 3kw each, so I have a max output therefore of 6kw. My storage inverter is a Sofar ME3000SP, and you can connect both Lead-Acid's and Lithium batteries, and also connect Pylontech arrays.

So the standard inverter does not connect to the storage inverter - both units are independent. You can therefore have them in two separate locations.

And you, it's all been a DIY install

garo

slave1 wrote: »

Looking at early stage quotes for myself...
8 370W on rear
8 370W on front
Blah blah other bits and pieces but my quandary is the battery, I am a two EV household so would eat any battery when charging at night, and I just don’t think it’s financially worth it but I’m foregoing grant money as I’m going above 2kW system.
Does anyone know the cheapest, minimum sized battery I could install to qualify for the grant?
Does the battery need to be new?
Can I not just take it out and sell it after getting grant payment?

You can easily configure a hybrid inverter to not discharge the battery during night hours. Most new inverters have that feature. In any case, if your consumption is at all typical you will run your (small) battery out before midnight on all but the longest 2 months of the year.

I got a Growatt hybrid inverter and a 2.4 kWh Pylontech battery. The latter should cost close to 700 now at trade prices and VAT. The battery does provide some smoothing. If the oven is on and a coud briefly covers the sun the battery will discharge to reduce grid import and recharge again once oven is off and sun is out again. I did the numbers earlier on this thread. I think the battery saved me ~80 euro last year. If it gets you an additional 1200 grant, it is effectively free.

It doesn't need to be new but your SEAI approved installer has to sign off on it.

Yes you can do whatever you want after getting the grant. Some here replaced the LiFePO4 battery with a cheaper but larger capacity bank of used UPS/EV batteries.

garo

unkel wrote: »

4 dead car batteries. Cost: €0

Car batteries are not the best for deep cycle/energy storage operations. Car starter batteries have a large number of thin plates as anodes. Their job is to provide a lot of current for a short period. You want lead acid batteries with thicker anodes that will last longer providing lower current. Of course, there is no arguing with free.

garo

daughy wrote: »

Its true the east gets some shading, i have a washing line that until maybe 11am runs a shadow all the way over the east panels, so most likely breaking the circuit. i still have get some tigo optimisers and install them but the company I purchased my system from is having awful issues acquiring them from China with this covid dilemma. Il move the washing line if my wife allows it.
I'm going to move the south facing string west facing and add 3 more panels to each string totalling
2.8kw a string, so 5.6kw in totall, I'm just hoping the overall voltage will be OK as the inverter is rated for 600 volts dc input. At 40 volts open circuit and 16 panels, is 640 volts.
Has anyone had an east west panel setup with something similar?
I could go 2 strings of 7 panels at 350 Watts each, 2.45kw each, 560 volts total. Just to be safe.. anyone got any suggestions

54 degrees is pretty steep. Your production from those panels will be max 60% of the south facing panels. But with the washing line you have a much bigger problem. Move the washing line and save on the optimisers.



I have a E/W system and that works pretty well as the W facing panels continue to produce in the evening when most of the consumption takes place. But in your position if the washing line can't be moved, you might be better off going S and W.

unkel

garo wrote: »

Car batteries are not the best for deep cycle/energy storage operations.

Of course they are not. They wouldn't last 100 cycles

I was answering slave1's question though, who was looking for advice to get the full grant (including the battery grant) for as little outlay as possible. As soon as he'd have his grant, he'd dismantle the battery part of it and sell whatever he wouldn't be using.

championc

daughy wrote: »

Its true the east gets some shading, i have a washing line that until maybe 11am runs a shadow all the way over the east panels, so most likely breaking the circuit. i still have get some tigo optimisers and install them but the company I purchased my system from is having awful issues acquiring them from China with this covid dilemma. Il move the washing line if my wife allows it.
I'm going to move the south facing string west facing and add 3 more panels to each string totalling
2.8kw a string, so 5.6kw in totall, I'm just hoping the overall voltage will be OK as the inverter is rated for 600 volts dc input. At 40 volts open circuit and 16 panels, is 640 volts.
Has anyone had an east west panel setup with something similar?
I could go 2 strings of 7 panels at 350 Watts each, 2.45kw each, 560 volts total. Just to be safe.. anyone got any suggestions

Go with the 2 x 2.8kw strings on South and West. The south string will cover most of your morning use. Evening usage is always higher so it makes total sense to build up the West instead. And your inverter will never see the open circuit voltage so I think you'll be ok with the 8 panels on each string.

Invest the Tigo destined money in the additional panels asap

daughy

I would prefer a South /West setup but I'm limited with space, I can easily run panels length ways of the garden but not the width, the 5 panels is the most I can go for the south.
It's looking like a E/W setup, 2 strings of 8.
Capture the morning sun and evening. Once it hits midday the west should activate and take over.
So all in all if your doing a DIY build your looking at approx 6k, for 5.6kw of panels,an Eddie, 5kw hybrid, ground mount, SEAI electrician to commission. You guys that are getting it built for you with batteries are doing very well for some of your quotes, then only upside for a DIY build is you get the privilege of doing it yourself.
Just be careful of some of these companies promises etc.

slave1

graememk wrote: »

Flooded Lead acid dont qualify for the grant, Gel Lead acid does


I wonder can i get anything out of the dead tractor batteries i have lying about, I think there is 4 in one shed and one waiting to go into a tractor before the winter....

Or they could be completely wrecked lol

Thank you, so Gel Lead Acid batteries the cheapest? Any link, you can see where I’m going here....batteries to allow the extra PV above 2kW grant assistance them move them on afterwards

unkel

Your biggest problem is to get an SEAI installer to provide lead acid batteries for not much more than €250 (the smallest Pylontech LiFePo4 with less usable capacity than that retails for around €1200), or even more difficult: for you to source the parts and then for them to sign off on it.

championc

daughy wrote: »

I would prefer a South /West setup but I'm limited with space, I can easily run panels length ways of the garden but not the width, the 5 panels is the most I can go for the south.
It's looking like a E/W setup, 2 strings of 8.
Capture the morning sun and evening. Once it hits midday the west should activate and take over.
So all in all if your doing a DIY build your looking at approx 6k, for 5.6kw of panels,an Eddie, 5kw hybrid, ground mount, SEAI electrician to commission. You guys that are getting it built for you with batteries are doing very well for some of your quotes, then only upside for a DIY build is you get the privilege of doing it yourself.
Just be careful of some of these companies promises etc.

You're likely to get greater output over a whole day with 5 South vs 8 East IMO

DrPhilG

championc wrote: »

Myself and Unkel (and possibly others) have got two separate inverters - a normal one and a storage one.

The storage inverter will simply have the battery bank connected on one side and then the AC on the other side.

Both of my units are 3kw each, so I have a max output therefore of 6kw. My storage inverter is a Sofar ME3000SP, and you can connect both Lead-Acid's and Lithium batteries, and also connect Pylontech arrays.

So the standard inverter does not connect to the storage inverter - both units are independent. You can therefore have them in two separate locations.

And you, it's all been a DIY install

So let's say I added another host of panels (depending on the ESB 6kw limit etc) and a separate inverter.

I now have a Solis hybrid inverter, 3.4kw on one string and 2.8kw on the other. 4.8kWh Pylontech batteries DC coupled.

Then I add another 6kw of panels on a second inverter, with 8kWh of storage in the form of recycled Leaf cells.

The inverters aren't linked, so who takes priority? If both sets of panels are generating 1kw each, and the house base load is 500w, which inverter supplies the house?

Likewise after dark, no generation but both batteries are charged. Which battery will drain to feed the house load?

graememk

unkel wrote: »

Your biggest problem is to get an SEAI installer to provide lead acid batteries for not much more than €250 (the smallest Pylontech LiFePo4 with less usable capacity than that retails for around €1200), or even more difficult: for you to source the parts and then for them to sign off on it.

Also need a hybrid inverters (doubles the price of the inverter) or a standalone ac battery (about 800ish)

mp3guy

DrPhilG wrote: »

So let's say I added another host of panels (depending on the ESB 6kw limit etc) and a sepatare inverter.

I now have a Solis hybrid inverter, 3.4kw on one string and 2.8kw on the other. 4.8kWh Pylontech batteries DC coupled.

Then I add another 6kw of panels on a second inverter, with 8kWh of storage in the form of recycled Leaf cells.

The inverters aren't linked, so who takes priority? If both sets of panels are generating 1kw each, and the house base load is 500w, which inverter supplies the house?

Likewise after dark, no generation but both batteries are charged. Which battery will drain to feed the house load?

The inverters need to communicate to prevent more than 6kW getting fed back to the grid.

garo

To answer your question DrPhilG it depends on which inverter has set a higher AC output voltage.

MAULBROOK

slave1 wrote: »

Looking at early stage quotes for myself...
8 370W on rear
8 370W on front
Blah blah other bits and pieces but my quandary is the battery, I am a two EV household so would eat any battery when charging at night, and I just don’t think it’s financially worth it but I’m foregoing grant money as I’m going above 2kW system.
Does anyone know the cheapest, minimum sized battery I could install to qualify for the grant?
Does the battery need to be new?
Can I not just take it out and sell it after getting grant payment?

You can do what you like after you pay for goods. Just give it a month or two

championc

DrPhilG wrote: »

So let's say I added another host of panels (depending on the ESB 6kw limit etc) and a separate inverter.

I now have a Solis hybrid inverter, 3.4kw on one string and 2.8kw on the other. 4.8kWh Pylontech batteries DC coupled.

Then I add another 6kw of panels on a second inverter, with 8kWh of storage in the form of recycled Leaf cells.

The inverters aren't linked, so who takes priority? If both sets of panels are generating 1kw each, and the house base load is 500w, which inverter supplies the house?

Likewise after dark, no generation but both batteries are charged. Which battery will drain to feed the house load?

I believe one set of storage would be discharged fully before the other would. It's possible that if you had a night schedule to charge storage from the mains / grid, the charging could be pulled from the other storage.

So you are more likely to create a heap of trouble having two separate stores of energy. You'd be better removing any coupled batteries off the hybrid inverter in order to allow a Zappi to better interact with storage.

DrPhilG

Thanks garo and championc.

I'm just speculating at this point. I'm going to get a year under my belt and see what my actual savings are rather than just predicted. Then will decide whether to expand or not.

irishchris

Finally about to get my system installed this week but little worried about the perimeter distance of 500mm. All fine on top and bottom of panels distance but as my hip roof steps in as it rises I might be 100mm short on both sides at the very top and within regulation on the rest of the sides Would this mean refusal of the grant outright or are they that stringent.

Also just wonder how many here have had spotcheck inspections by seai?

DrPhilG

irishchris wrote: »

Finally about to get my system installed this week but little worried about the perimeter distance of 500mm. All fine on top and bottom of panels distance but as my hip roof steps in as it rises I might be 100mm short on both sides at the very top and within regulation on the rest of the sides Would this mean refusal of the grant outright or are they that stringent.

Also just wonder how many here have had spotcheck inspections by seai?

I had site visits by 4 or 5 installers and all were happy to install despite leaving me short at the top and bottom. Even the ones who were claiming the grant back themselves. So I doubt that the inspectors are that sticky.

irishchris

DrPhilG wrote: »

I had site visits by 4 or 5 installers and all were happy to install despite leaving me short at the top and bottom. Even the ones who were claiming the grant back themselves. So I doubt that the inspectors are that sticky.

Excellent cheers. Do you know roughly what distance your were short at both top and bottom? Tried to find pictures of your setup Phil as remember seeing it earlier in posts but can't find it.

garo

I had an SEAI inspection and they were more worried about stickers on my fuseboard than measuring distance from roof edge. I’d say you would get away with 400mm on the sides.

daughy

DrPhilG wrote: »

So let's say I added another host of panels (depending on the ESB 6kw limit etc) and a separate inverter.

I now have a Solis hybrid inverter, 3.4kw on one string and 2.8kw on the other. 4.8kWh Pylontech batteries DC coupled.

Then I add another 6kw of panels on a second inverter, with 8kWh of storage in the form of recycled Leaf cells.

The inverters aren't linked, so who takes priority? If both sets of panels are generating 1kw each, and the house base load is 500w, which inverter supplies the house?

Likewise after dark, no generation but both batteries are charged. Which battery will drain to feed the house load?

]I was thinking about your question, so the solis hybrid has a discharge timer, you could have both inverters set up to discharge at certain times, let's say the first inverter discharges to your house from 6am to 6pm while your second inverter charges your batteries from the solar, then from 6pm to 6am your second inverter activates and discharges to your house while the first charges at a night rate. Understandably its going to cost but it'll be cheaper in the long run.
Just an idea, anyone else think this is viable?

daughy

I have been thinking about my own setup, is it possible to have uneven amounts of panels on the solis 5kw hybrid inverter, i can keep my 5 panel,1.75kw south array and move my east 5 panel,1.75kw array to the west and if possible add 4 or 6 more panels to the new west array.
So west would have either 9 or 11, 350 watt panels. I just remember the guy I purchased the panels from said the two separate arrays need to be the same.

Ballylad

daughy wrote: »

Looking at your quotes for installs with batteries and eddie diverters etc, it hurts me that I built my system myself as you guys are doing very well for these prices, my system right now that I built myself is a 3.5kw split east/south ground mount array, 5kw hybrid solis, i spent approx 4.5k, the only reason I had to do it myself is an installer told me to get the grant the energy rating of my house needed to be a C.... so I had no choice but to install the system myself.
Congrats on the quote

Hi, interested in where you sourced your materials, thinking similar myself, how much was ground mount, did you use ballast ground mount thnks

daughy

Ballylad wrote: »

Hi, interested in where you sourced your materials, thinking similar myself, how much was ground mount, did you use ballast ground mount thnks

I tried to source a steel ground mount but was unable as I was chatting to installers who would do a ground mount for me but wanted to do the entire install and I didn't want that,I just wanted to mount installed so I charged up the brain, so I'm the end I sourced wood, I know it's a bit caveman style but it has survived the last storm we had. The materials with ground spikes for each post, wood etc, blocks, all came to 400 euro.

There are dc isolators connected behind each string connected to the wood post. So 2 dc isolators,
I can't give you the name of where I purchased the panels but I think I can in pm?
I'll attach photos of possible.

daughy

I think this uploaded.

Ballylad

daughy wrote: »

I think this uploaded.

Looks like a good simple job, fair play to you, got quote for 14 panel ballast ground mount excluding ballast for 1800e

daughy

Ballylad wrote: »

Looks like a good simple job, fair play to you, got quote for 14 panel ballast ground mount excluding ballast for 1800e

Thanks for that Ballylad, I just couldn't justify paying for a mount that costs more or less what the panels are worth. It's pretty sturdy though.

championc

daughy wrote: »

I have been thinking about my own setup, is it possible to have uneven amounts of panels on the solis 5kw hybrid inverter, i can keep my 5 panel,1.75kw south array and move my east 5 panel,1.75kw array to the west and if possible add 4 or 6 more panels to the new west array.
So west would have either 9 or 11, 350 watt panels. I just remember the guy I purchased the panels from said the two separate arrays need to be the same.

Absolutely can do that. There is nothing anywhere to say that the number on each string should even be close to being equal - so 5 and 11 would be perfectly acceptible

daughy

championc wrote: »

Absolutely can do that. There is nothing anywhere to say that the number on each string should even be close to being equal - so 5 and 11 would be perfectly acceptible

Hi Championc, I really appreciate your reply. Thank you

DrPhilG

irishchris wrote: »

Excellent cheers. Do you know roughly what distance your were short at both top and bottom? Tried to find pictures of your setup Phil as remember seeing it earlier in posts but can't find it.

I think I was about 6cm short top and bottom, can't remember.

DrPhilG

daughy wrote: »

I have been thinking about my own setup, is it possible to have uneven amounts of panels on the solis 5kw hybrid inverter

I've got 9 panels on one side and 11 on the other.

daughy

DrPhilG wrote: »

I've got 9 panels on one side and 11 on the other.

Thank you DrPhilG, i appreciate your help
Apologies for asking the same question, I just read page 48 or so of the forum and you had the same dilemma. Will read up first ðŸ‘

daughy

DrPhilG wrote: »

Install is happening on Tuesday & Wednesday next week. 6.2kw total, half on the South facing garage, half on the west facing back of the house.

Zappi 2 also.

No water diverter, but I've got a wifi enabled immersion switch ordered so I can kinda manually divert if it happens to be a scorching day and I'm generating more than I'm using.

€50 for the switch beats the pants off €500 for an Eddi.

Just read your post from a few months ago, I'm going for an Eddie and a zappi, but for the Eddie if anyone knows, I have that wifi switch but hadn't installed it yet, is the Eddie OK with being switched on and off and still keep its memory?

championc

daughy wrote: »

Just read your post from a few months ago, I'm going for an Eddie and a zappi, but for the Eddie if anyone knows, I have that wifi switch but hadn't installed it yet, is the Eddie OK with being switched on and off and still keep its memory?

Why would you want to that ? What are you trying to do / avoid ? It's likely you can achieve what you want with settings

daughy

championc wrote: »

Why would you want to that ? What are you trying to do / avoid ? It's likely you can achieve what you want with settings

Basically if I had a zappi and a car on charge I would switch the Eddie off through the WiFi, I would hate to think the hot water diverter is taking the energy from the zappi. Just an idea, if I just use a wifi switch with no diverter in place it would consume the 3kw until the tank is at the desired temp, being ireland the weather is very temperamental.

DrPhilG

daughy wrote: »

Basically if I had a zappi and a car on charge I would switch the Eddie off through the WiFi, I would hate to think the hot water diverter is taking the energy from the zappi. Just an idea, if I just use a wifi switch with no diverter in place it would consume the 3kw until the tank is at the desired temp, being ireland the weather is very temperamental.

The whole point of the Eddi and Zappi being linked is that if the Zappi is set as the priority, it will always charge first.

The Eddi only kicks in if the car is full, not plugged in, or if the surplus is below 1.4kw which is the minimum that the Zappi needs to start a charge.

Mickeroo

daughy wrote: »

Basically if I had a zappi and a car on charge I would switch the Eddie off through the WiFi, I would hate to think the hot water diverter is taking the energy from the zappi. Just an idea, if I just use a wifi switch with no diverter in place it would consume the 3kw until the tank is at the desired temp, being ireland the weather is very temperamental.

You can set it to prioritise one over the other without messing about with wifi switches, they're designed to work together.

daughy

Mickeroo wrote: »

You can set it to prioritise one over the other without messing about with wifi switches, they're designed to work together.

Thank you Mickeroo, I appreciate that. Tnx guys