Domestic Solar PV Quotes 2020

championc

How hard can it be to knock up a ground frame yourself ????

There are plenty of bushwhackers in the states with videos of diy installs on wood frames

DrPhilG

BER Assessor just left. He reckons I'll probably be up from a C2 to a B something with the installation of the solar, and moving from an open fire to a stove recently. Also dry lined the end wall but he says that doesn't have as big an impact on the rating as it would in an older house.

Deagol

championc wrote: »

How hard can it be to knock up a ground frame yourself ????

There are plenty of bushwhackers in the states with videos of diy installs on wood frames

I did some very basic calculations on wind strength / area etc and found that any mounts I did myself would be likely to turn into flying objects first really good storm. The amount of force generated by 12sqm of panels being caught by 160km/hr wind gust is quite phenomenal.

On the other hand the cost of the panels is not high enough to make me panic about it.

TBH, I'd love to give it a go but I'd need to find a competent electrician to tie it in but so far I'm finding refusal's to work on equipment they didn't install or they didn't buy.

garo

Is a roof mount completely out of the question for you?

Deagol

garo wrote: »

Is a roof mount completely out of the question for you?

Not entirely - but the current 2.1kw is on the garage roof and there's only enough room for maybe 3 more panels. THe other side of the roof is shadowed by trees so not an option.

Right beside the garage I have an unused 3 foot high raised 'flower' bed that faces south. I thought it would be ideal. The house roof faces south but that aspect is dormer so a bit messy in terms of panels and access.

One of the installer is going to call in and give some advise on what they think will work so maybe will get clearer idea then. Thanks to everyone who's advised / helped / PM'd so far - all the advise is appreciated.

garo

A dormer is not completely out of the question. You may need to get a few optimisers but I got 8 panels above the dormer on my roof. A few optimisers would surely be cheaper than shelling out an extra 1-2k for the ground mounts.

JJ O Malley

Hi all. Deliberating getting PV panels for some time. I've read that the grant comes to an end in December. Also heard that surplus can be sold to the grid starting 2021. It seems a no brainer to get it now if this is correct. I expect there will be a big rush over the next month or so. Am I correct on this, any possibility they would say that those who got the grant can't sell back?

I'm based in galway. Could someone please recommend a company to install?

I'm struggling to understand why I'd get batteries if surplus can be sold to the grid. Why not use ther grid as a battery selling surplus and buy back as needed. Ive got a couple of quotes and found the batteries are very expensive. Maybe better off paying for more panels and saving a few grand.

Im told to only get glass-glass panels not glass foil. Anyone know how critical this is? Apparently glass-glass will be less problematic.

Looking forward to learning all about solar / PV.

Cheers
John

Glass glass? Is it a conservatory roof yer installing? More weight, more expense. Nah.

I'm a in the no-battery camp. Probably a sore subject at the mo so I'll shut up.

unkel

We're all hoping for a feed in tariff (us being paid for the electricity we send back to the grid) and yes you are right, there is much less of a benefit of a battery if we get paid for our production

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

I'm a in the no-battery camp. Probably a sore subject at the mo so I'll shut up.

Not at all. It would be a sorry state of affairs if we couldn't discuss stuff here.

mp3guy

If you get a lot of power cuts batteries make more sense.

garo

mp3guy wrote: »

If you get a lot of power cuts batteries make more sense.

Not unless you shell out extra for a proper cutover system. Most installs are grid ties which means when the power goes you solar system shuts down.

mp3guy

garo wrote: »

Not unless you shell out extra for a proper cutover system. Most installs are grid ties which means when the power goes you solar system shuts down.

Right, yes. It's definitely not clear cut.

And a battery big enough to meet the load demand unassisted by the grid which has to be at least 6kWh usable. It's kindov a feature that's claimed but doesn't reaaallllyy work in practical applications.

Or it does but with a disproportionately high pricetag for the performance.

I suppose you could always stick some lead on the li-ion terminals just for the occasion....meyeah...I would. Not every day though Fred.

garo

unkel wrote: »

You are not quite right there. Most SEAI subsidised PV installs with battery do have an emergency power outlet as standard. When the power goes, that outlet will have power. Obviously the power in your house will not be automatically restored (unless you have some sort of cut over system as you say)

Correct. If you have the EPS outlets wired up right you can get power to a dedicated circuit. But not to the house as a whole.

Studers do it seamlessly.

Oh wait they're non-compliant! Meh, way better, these things are amaze-o-boxes.

unkel

garo wrote: »

Not unless you shell out extra for a proper cutover system. Most installs are grid ties which means when the power goes you solar system shuts down.

You are not quite right there. Most SEAI subsidised PV installs with battery do have an emergency power output as standard. When the power goes, that output will have power. Obviously the power in your house will not be automatically restored (unless you have some sort of cut over system as you say)

I have wired the EPS on my outdoor battery inverter to a waterproof outdoor single socket. Last time the power went (for well over an hour) here in Lucan, I hooked up an extension lead to it and plugged my fridge freezer into it. At the same time I took out my eBike battery, hooked up a 48V inverter to that and made diner in the oven (air fryer)

And I connected a 25m cable to the inverter in the frunk of my EV permanently connected to my car's battery all the way up to my attic so I could still run my PC (working from home)

KCross

unkel wrote: »

You are not quite right there. Most SEAI subsidised PV installs with battery do have an emergency power outlet as standard. When the power goes, that outlet will have power. Obviously the power in your house will not be automatically restored (unless you have some sort of cut over system as you say)

SEAI regs require the panels to be auto shutoff when the grid goes so once the battery is dead the lot is gone even if the sun is shining.

Don't do this at home kids!

KCross

KCross wrote: »

SEAI regs require the panels to be auto shutoff when the grid goes so once the battery is dead the lot is gone even if the sun is shining.

Just pull the master fuse of the CU and fire her back up!

KCross

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Just pull the master fuse of the CU and fire her back up!

There are DC isolators connected to the panels which won’t turn back on until the grid comes back on and those isolators are meant to be near the panels ( so not in a convenient place)

Only if you do it their way! :pac:

I've never harmed a line worker! Brothers from another mother!

bobbyy gee

Deagol wrote: »

Not entirely - but the current 2.1kw is on the garage roof and there's only enough room for maybe 3 more panels. THe other side of the roof is shadowed by trees so not an option.

Right beside the garage I have an unused 3 foot high raised 'flower' bed that faces south. I thought it would be ideal. The house roof faces south but that aspect is dormer so a bit messy in terms of panels and access.

One of the installer is going to call in and give some advise on what they think will work so maybe will get clearer idea then. Thanks to everyone who's advised / helped / PM'd so far - all the advise is appreciated.

get a welder to make a frame for you you could do it on site you buy material he brings welder

or you could bolt it all together
make sure it can tilt summer and winter so you get all the sun



https://www.simplifiedbuilding.com/projects/how-to-build-a-solar-panel-frame

KCross

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Only if you do it their way! :pac:

Of course, but not their way, no grant!

Now if you had a loverly AC coupling inverter that can make a microgrid and a means of dumping/throttling surplus power that'd enable the fireman switch again because there's a live feed (with the main CU disconnected)

KCross

KCross wrote: »

Of course, but not their way, no grant!

I tried applying for the grant waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyy too expensive twas.

...and the hardware was not enticing.

QED:

Ya call that a battery disconnect?



or that?




Spare me!

That's a Battery Disconnect

unkel

KCross wrote: »

SEAI regs require the panels to be auto shutoff when the grid goes so once the battery is dead the lot is gone even if the sun is shining.

Panels don't "auto shutoff"

But yes once the battery is drained, a SEAI grant conform system will no longer provide power.

I think they're refering to the firefighter safety switch and anti-islanding.

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Panels don't "auto shutoff"

I don’t understand. If the DC shunt disconnects due to the grid going down then the panels are shutoff and it’s automatic... auto shutoff!?

Call it what you will, no power anyway.

And if the battery was at a low state of charge when the power went you are in the same boat as someone with no Solar PV system.

Caspero

JJ O Malley wrote: »

I'm struggling to understand why I'd get batteries if surplus can be sold to the grid. Why not use ther grid as a battery selling surplus and buy back as needed. Ive got a couple of quotes and found the batteries are very expensive. Maybe better off paying for more panels and saving a few grand.

I'm looking at a new system and agree with this...particularly if you have an EV which of course has a battery inside it...far larger than the ones generally installed in houses. So either feed back to the grid or to the car would be the most rational thing.....except that the grants are larger if you get a battery with your PV system.

Which brings up the question: What is the smallest and cheapest battery, or alternatively the most resalable battery that you can get away with while still meeting the grant criteria?

JJ O Malley

mp3guy wrote: »

If you get a lot of power cuts batteries make more sense.

Thanks for replying. We dont get many power cuts so wouldn't really feature in my decision. Also based on the responses it sounds complicated. Well above my head anyhow!!

Thanks
John

JJ O Malley

unkel wrote: »

You are not quite right there. Most SEAI subsidised PV installs with battery do have an emergency power output as standard. When the power goes, that output will have power. Obviously the power in your house will not be automatically restored (unless you have some sort of cut over system as you say)

I have wired the EPS on my outdoor battery inverter to a waterproof outdoor single socket. Last time the power went (for well over an hour) here in Lucan, I hooked up an extension lead to it and plugged my fridge freezer into it. At the same time I took out my eBike battery, hooked up a 48V inverter to that and made diner in the oven (air fryer)

And I connected a 25m cable to the inverter in the frunk of my EV permanently connected to my car's battery all the way up to my attic so I could still run my PC (working from home)

Ha, pretty inventive. I'd have ordered a chinese, taken the day off and gone fishing ðŸ˜.

Cheers
John

JJ O Malley

Caspero wrote: »

I'm looking at a new system and agree with this...particularly if you have an EV which of course has a battery inside it...far larger than the ones generally installed in houses. So either feed back to the grid or to the car would be the most rational thing.....except that the grants are larger if you get a battery with your PV system.

Which brings up the question: What is the smallest and cheapest battery, or alternatively the most resalable battery that you can get away with while still meeting the grant criteria?

Good question. I'm surprised by the battery prices, suspect u would lose money if selling on the battery. Worth finding out anyhow. Let me know if you figure it out!

Cheers
John

JJ O Malley

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Glass glass? Is it a conservatory roof yer installing? More weight, more expense. Nah.

I'm a in the no-battery camp. Probably a sore subject at the mo so I'll shut up.

Thanks for the reply. I just read that glass-glass is more robust over time. I've no clue if this is accurate.

If anyone could recommend a company in the west or even nationwide who services the weat I'd appreciate it. Looking for good value obviously 😊.

Cheers
John

AndyBoBandy

Hello Folks, Complete Noob here when it comes to Solar PV, but we really want to get it installed, and it's quite a big thread to go through.

Initially we are looking at the Electric Ireland offer, which is a 2kWp set up with 6 panels I believe, for €5,200 (with €1,800 grant available, bringing the cost down to €3,600, with a diverter to the immersion).

When they say a 2kWp system, is that what it would produce on an average day? 2kW?

Is the Electric Ireland offer worthwhile? or is it a load of crap, just to get folk onto the 'Free solar Electricity' bandwagon?, but not actually worth it??

We are both home based, so have 3 computers running during the day, as well as other ancillary items like Fridge, TV's, Smart lights etc...
Would 2kWp be sufficient, or should we be looking to go larger?

The plan would be to install a battery down the line for any excess generated solar and night rate charging.

garo

The EI offer is crap. Run away from it.



How much daytime energy do you use? You want approximately 1-1.5 kWp installed for every 1000 daytime units you use in a year. Solar output varies considerably based on time of the year (and the tilt and orientation of your panels). For instance my 4.8kW E/W split system can produce 30kWh in a day in high summer but maxes out at 2kWh in the middle of winter.


The only reason to go for a battery is that you get a 1200 Euro additional grant. Always ask for quotes with and without battery. Also to get a grant your house must be rated C or better and be built before 2011 (MPRN date).

AndyBoBandy

When you say daytime units, and you talking about how many kWh I'd use during the day in a year? a very quick look at my meter tells me I've used roughly 7kWh per day over the last 3 weeks...

The house was a C3 when we bought back in 2014, and have converted the attic, and installed a new composite hall door since then which will have improved the rating. Will I still need a fresh BER cert for SEAI application?

slave1

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

..Will I still need a fresh Bar cert for SEAI application?

Yes, part of the grant approval process, even if you were A3 prior, new cert required

JJ O Malley

slave1 wrote: »

Yes, part of the grant approval process, even if you were A3 prior, new cert required

Hi there. Any idea of the cost for this certification?

Cheers
John

garo

A BER ranges from 180-300. Obviously depends on size of the house. An apartment might be cheaper still.

KCross

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

When they say a 2kWp system, is that what it would produce on an average day? 2kW?

No, its the max the system is designed to generate... so its a best case scenario, more or less.

In reality, as garo said, it will vary wildly day to day as to how much you actually generate.

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

We are both home based, so have 3 computers running during the day, as well as other ancillary items like Fridge, TV's, Smart lights etc...
Would 2kWp be sufficient, or should we be looking to go larger?

The plan would be to install a battery down the line for any excess generated solar and night rate charging.

With both of you at home and you have an EV you should consider diverting the excess to the EV rather than investing in a battery (which will have a 15yr+ payback time).

The biggest battery you will ever need "is coming soon" in the form of a Feed-in-tariff. News of that expected in Jun 2021 and you'd need one of the new smart meters to avail of it whenever it happens... it could be a few years out but its highly likely at this stage.

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

The house was a C3 when we bought back in 2014, and have converted the attic, and installed a new composite hall door since then which will have improved the rating. Will I still need a fresh BER cert for SEAI application?

A new BER will be required as far as I know. They basically want to know what the BER is AFTER you install Solar PV.

You mention 2014... was the house build before 2011? Thats a must have requirement.

garo

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

When you say daytime units, and you talking about how many kWh I'd use during the day in a year? a very quick look at my meter tells me I've used roughly 7kWh per day over the last 3 weeks...

The house was a C3 when we bought back in 2014, and have converted the attic, and installed a new composite hall door since then which will have improved the rating. Will I still need a fresh BER cert for SEAI application?

Yes I meant daytime units. I assume you have day/night rates. If you are using 7kWh per day average - I assume you don't have electric showers or hob? - and ideally you'd want a longer time average, you are looking for a 3-4kW system. Get 4kW, maximize the grant because marginal cost of additional panels is low and you can also charge the car if you have a Zappi. (Cue unkel saying it will never pay for itself :rolleyes:)

Of course if you are solely motivated by payback time and are not willing to tolerate a slightly longer payback, you may be better off going with a smaller system without a battery. But as always, get quotes from a number of installers and for a number of options from each.

You will need a new BER. Many installers include it in the package.

AndyBoBandy

KCross wrote: »

You mention 2014... was the house build before 2011? Thats a must have requirement.

Yep, we bought 2nd hand, house was built circa 1999

AndyBoBandy

garo wrote: »

Yes I meant daytime units. I assume you have day/night rates. If you are using 7kWh per day average - I assume you don't have electric showers or hob? - and ideally you'd want a longer time average, you are looking for a 3-4kW system. Get 4kW, maximize the grant because marginal cost of additional panels is low and you can also charge the car if you have a Zappi. (Cue unkel saying it will never pay for itself :rolleyes:)

Of course if you are solely motivated by payback time and are not willing to tolerate a slightly longer payback, you may be better off going with a smaller system without a battery. But as always, get quotes from a number of installers and for a number of options from each.

You will need a new BER. Many installers include it in the package.

We have a Day/Night meter, no electric shower or Electric Hob (Electric Oven, though when used, would be evenings only)

We do have an EV, so it's a very good shout of diverting the excess to the car rather than the grid (until at leat FIT happens), would mean swapping out the current charger with a Zappi. But this might not be an option every day so the battery is still appealing so as not to waste a drop - also then we'd have teh option of charging a battery at night rate to help out during daytime in the winter months...

We're not really motivated by instant payback period (I think). We're happy to pay up front for the right system to reduce our overall long term costs. i.e. We both earn decent money now, so we want to do as much as we can now to reduce our outgoings in the future when we've perhaps taken our feet off the gas work wise.... make hay while the sun shines.

KCross

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

We do have an EV, so it's a very good shout of diverting the excess to the car rather than the grid (until at leat FIT happens), would mean swapping out the current charger with a Zappi.

Not just Zappi but it is the better known/tested one at this stage.

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

But this might not be an option every day so the battery is still appealing so as not to waste a drop - also then we'd have teh option of charging a battery at night rate to help out during daytime in the winter months...

Its a catch-22 in some ways.... yes, you wont waste a drop by storing it yourself (if you get a large enough battery) but you are paying up front for every one of those drops by paying for the battery. You need to carefully examine the numbers and decide if you are just fooling yourself or not.

i.e. do you want to give your money to a battery manufacturer with a 15yr payback crossing your fingers that it will last long enough to give you a payback not to mind to be quids in.... or do you want to take your chances and cross your fingers for a FiT in a few short years where it will probably cost you nothing extra and you start to get paid for your excess (money in, not money out).... i made up my mind on that a while back.... people still seem obsessed with batteries in here though. Its your call but look at the numbers.

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

... also then we'd have teh option of charging a battery at night rate to help out during daytime in the winter months...

That has been discussed before as well and its not worth it and reducing the life span of the battery, which is limited by its cycles (charge/discharge).

AndyBoBandy

True, it's a much sounder option to use the car as the storage battery, and then hope FIT happens. (I can then truly say that my driving is powered by the sun).

Worst case it's going to cost me the price of a Zappi, and the car would be plugged in during the day probably 90% of the time anyway...

Seeing as it's a fairly big thread, what's the net ballpark figure for a 3-4kWp installation people are seeing?

KCross

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Worst case it's going to cost me the price of a Zappi, and the car would be plugged in during the day probably 90% of the time anyway...

You can offset that cost by selling the one you have.
The Zappi aint cheap so its unfortunate that you have already drawn that grant... it will make payback longer but keep your eye on the ball... FiT!

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Seeing as it's a fairly big thread, what's the net ballpark figure for a 3-4kWp installation people are seeing?

You should be aiming for €4500 after grant for a non-battery system for 4.2kWp.

kanuseeme

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

True, it's a much sounder option to use the car as the storage battery, and then hope FIT happens. (I can then truly say that my driving is powered by the sun).

Worst case it's going to cost me the price of a Zappi, and the car would be plugged in during the day probably 90% of the time anyway...

Seeing as it's a fairly big thread, what's the net ballpark figure for a 3-4kWp installation people are seeing?

I know a battery is expensive, but I can see its value in grid down situation,
something just to keep the food from spoiling in the freezer, powering a few lights ,tv internet etc.

Something to keep the kids occupied would pay for itself in 5 minutes IMO.

JJ O Malley

homewardbound11 wrote: »

I’m only starting out on this embark but can anyone please PM me suppliers/ installers in the west ( Mayo) . I’ve a large east west roof that can be used . As for options I’m completely bamboozeled with all the terminology . All i know is from unkel is to install as many panels as I can . After that I’ve a lot to learn .

Hi there. Could you please send me on details of a recommended supplier/installer.

Kind regards
John