Domestic Solar PV Quotes 2020

garo

slave1 wrote: »

I have to say, I don't understand the logic of it though....

Why not? As long as the second inverter is connected before the CT clamp you have a picture like this:


House load

---

|
Hybrid inverter

---

|

---

||--
Mini Inverter

---

|


where || is the CT clamp. It sees what is going into the house or out of the house and controls what power goes into the battery based on that. It can even draw AC power from the mini-inverter if needed.

Deagol

garo wrote: »

Why not? As long as the second inverter is connected before the CT clamp you have a picture like this:


House load

---

|
Hybrid inverter

---

|

---

||--
Mini Inverter

---

|


where || is the CT clamp. It sees what is going into the house or out of the house and controls what power goes into the battery based on that. It can even draw AC power from the mini-inverter if needed.

Power doesn't have a lag in it though according to where in the line it's connected, power flow direction and current changes are all effectively instantaneous to all the CT clamps irrespective of were they are mounted. In fact, the lag will occur in the polling of the CT clamp by the respective inverter which muddies the water further.

Or am I being exceptionally thick here ?

graememk

Deagol wrote: »

Power doesn't have a lag in it though according to where in the line it's connected, power flow direction and current changes are all effectively instantaneous to all the CT clamps irrespective of were they are mounted. In fact, the lag will occur in the polling of the CT clamp by the respective inverter which muddies the water further.

Or am I being exceptionally thick here ?

The inverters response to changes is very quick, I know someone who's doing fancy power monitoring for industry and they can sample at insane levels, something like 16000 times a second. But he's mostly looking at the waveform, being able to really accuratly measure power is a side effect of it.

So yeah, the ct that is on the main tails at the meter monitors the flow in or out.

Assume no battery is charging for now.
If the hybrid inverter is putting out 2kw and the second inverter is putting out 2, and the house is drawing 1, there would be a potential excess of 3kw being exported,

The hybrid knows that its putting out 2 kw. But there is 3 kw being exported. There is a missing 1kw from somewhere that still could be captured in the battery.

Without a ct on the feed from the second inverter, it can only see the effects of it, not the actual output.

Everything would work fine.

Only thing that would be screwed up is the consumption statistics, as to work out the house consumption you take the grid input/output(negative) and add it to the solar output.

al2009

Could i get pm's with munster based PV installers please? Perferably ones that you've had experience with.

MAULBROOK

al2009 wrote: »

Could i get pm's with munster based PV installers please? Perferably ones that you've had experience with.

PM sent

al2009

Thanks for the pm's folks, much appreciated!

sebdavis

Whats the max panels you are allowed? I have 19 but I hear people have installed more? I have never gone over 5kWh

Deagol

sebdavis wrote: »

Whats the max panels you are allowed? I have 19 but I hear people have installed more? I have never gone over 5kWh

As I understand. There is no limit on number of panels. But there is a limit on how much grid connected power you are allowed. Bear in mind that if you have 8kw of panels connected to a 5kw inverter, you are still limited to max of 5kw of grid power by the inverters ability to convert the 8kw of DC / Solar power to AC 'grid' power.

You cannot have more than 6kw grid connected power so you cannot have say 24 panels and two 5kw inverters for instance. You could have >6kw of solar but you'd have to have anything over the 6kw connected to off grid devices (say directly to immersion heaters).

At least that's my understanding, I could be corrected yet though by someone else

MAULBROOK

sebdavis wrote: »

Whats the max panels you are allowed? I have 19 but I hear people have installed more? I have never gone over 5kWh

I have 20 @ 6.2kw and no planning permission. I'm not really worried about the PP.

MAULBROOK

Delete

MAULBROOK

Today

slave1

sebdavis wrote: »

Whats the max panels you are allowed? I have 19 but I hear people have installed more? I have never gone over 5kWh

Throw up whatever you want, I’ve filled both aspects of my semi roof with 36m2 of panels...

Tarant

I assume your house fuse is 63Amp (some have 80)single phase, which is the bottleneck, correct me if I am wrong. That's max 14.4kw

graememk

Tarant wrote: »

I assume your house fuse is 63Amp (some have 80)single phase, which is the bottleneck, correct me if I am wrong. That's max 14.4kw

Nothing to do with your main fuse, Its ESB rules
https://www.esbnetworks.ie/new-connections/generator-connections/connect-a-micro-generator

They don't (well officially) recognise export limitation, But you can put as much panels up as the inverter can handle on the DC Side.

Deagol

Tarant wrote: »

I assume your house fuse is 63Amp (some have 80)single phase, which is the bottleneck, correct me if I am wrong. That's max 14.4kw

Technically that's probably not far from the truth but... it might be very risky to put in larger AC side (ie, inverter with >6kw capability) as the new smart meters will certainly have the capability of noticing it. I'm not sure would happen but I'd not like to find out - if nothing else, what is the advantage if you cannot be paid for more than 6kw anyway? If you wanted to use solar to power say mining PC's or a hot water storage tank then you might as well connect off grid and stay on the right side of the 'law'?

blue chuzzle

on the 50cm rule:

just curious, whats it there for? is it a safety thing?

real question: If my roof is connected to my neighbors roof, that's not an edge, so i can go right up to that boundary without breaking any rules, right?

actually, on the feed in tarrif - as far as i can see its for new systems installed after july only and you will need a C level or higher BER on the building to qualify - is this correct?

thanks!

Deagol

blue chuzzle wrote: »

on the 50cm rule:

just curious, whats it there for? is it a safety thing?

real question: If my roof is connected to my neighbors roof, that's not an edge, so i can go right up to that boundary without breaking any rules, right?

actually, on the feed in tarrif - as far as i can see its for new systems installed after july only and you will need a C level or higher BER on the building to qualify - is this correct?

thanks!

The 50 cm rule is simply because if you put the panels close to the edge, the wind can get under them and lift them up - I was told by a roofer that in fact they could rip the battens up and then lift the entire roof off!

The FIT in July is not decided yet. But there has been indications that you will possibly need a B or better BER. This is I think , to stop people putting up solar to make money but at the same time have a badly ineffecient house. In other words, they want you to spend money first on simpler things like insulation.

blue chuzzle

Deagol wrote: »

The 50 cm rule is simply because if you put the panels close to the edge, the wind can get under them and lift them up - I was told by a roofer that in fact they could rip the battens up and then lift the entire roof off!

The FIT in July is not decided yet. But there has been indications that you will possibly need a B or better BER. This is I think , to stop people putting up solar to make money but at the same time have a badly ineffecient house. In other words, they want you to spend money first on simpler things like insulation.

Ah, makes sense on the wind thing - that backs up my hope that I can use the space right up to my neighbours part of our shared roof - the 50cm rule is tricky on my roof as it slopes to the front, back and also to the gable end so the south facing part is like a rectangle with a triangle attached.

Interested to see how little concern there is around the number of panels vs planning permission in these conversations, has anyone actually got planning permission specifically for solar?

My roof will only fit about 7 panels anyway so it's not an issue in my case unfortunately.

I see the zappi has a 1.4kw activation - that's higher than I expected, feels like a 2.5kw system might be too small to effectively use that? Anyone with a small system is a zappi charger effectively? Home all day and will be in future too.

KCross

blue chuzzle wrote: »

actually, on the feed in tarrif - as far as i can see its for new systems installed after july only and you will need a C level or higher BER on the building to qualify - is this correct?

It won’t be just for new systems.
And the BER requirement will likely be tied to the grant, like it is already, not the FiT.

graememk

blue chuzzle wrote: »

I see the zappi has a 1.4kw activation - that's higher than I expected, feels like a 2.5kw system might be too small to effectively use that? Anyone with a small system is a zappi charger effectively? Home all day and will be in future too.

Yeah to get any benefit from it, it needs an 1.4kw excess to start, above your normal house load. Getting a zappi over a cheaper charge point just for solar isn't worth it with a small system.

Well I'm a C1 looking to get into B category, so happy there

garo

blue chuzzle wrote: »

I see the zappi has a 1.4kw activation - that's higher than I expected, feels like a 2.5kw system might be too small to effectively use that? Anyone with a small system is a zappi charger effectively? Home all day and will be in future too.

graememk wrote: »

Yeah to get any benefit from it, it needs an 1.4kw excess to start, above your normal house load. Getting a zappi over a cheaper charge point just for solar isn't worth it with a small system.

I wouldn't be so sure. You could get a cheaper system with a non-hybrid inverter and no battery and spend some of that money getting a Zappi. You can control how much initial export the Zappi needs to get going. So you could theoretically set the Zappi to start when there is 700W excess and it will take the rest from the grid. If your car is home during the day and you have a south facing roof there is a good chance you charge your car with the Zappi at least four months of the year.

graememk

garo wrote: »

I wouldn't be so sure. You could get a cheaper system with a non-hybrid inverter and no battery and spend some of that money getting a Zappi. You can control how much initial export the Zappi needs to get going. So you could theoretically set the Zappi to start when there is 700W excess and it will take the rest from the grid. If your car is home during the day and you have a south facing roof there is a good chance you charge your car with the Zappi at least four months of the year.

That's no better than charging on night rate!

garo

graememk wrote: »

That's no better than charging on night rate!

Agreed at 700W but if you set that as the threshold there will be times when you are producing more excess and that's going into the car. So overall you come out ahead. You can also set the threshold to 800W or 900W or whatever. With a 2.5kW south facing system you'd be producing close to 2kW on a sunny day and you are likely to have a large excess a lot of the time.

championc

garo wrote: »

Agreed at 700W but if you set that as the threshold there will be times when you are producing more excess and that's going into the car. So overall you come out ahead. You can also set the threshold to 800W or 900W or whatever. With a 2.5kW south facing system you'd be producing close to 2kW on a sunny day and you are likely to have a large excess a lot of the time.

Let's be real here - you will only get 2kW for between an hour or so either side of solar noon, and that's on days with perfect sunshine. And to think of only getting 1.4kW into the car in a whole hour sounds pretty pointless when you can charge the same amount in quarter the time at night. So overall, if you have a 2+kW system, you might be better connecting the car to your granny charger, at the slowest rate.

garo

championc wrote: »

Let's be real here - you will only get 2kW for between an hour or so either side of solar noon, and that's on days with perfect sunshine. And to think of only getting 1.4kW into the car in a whole hour sounds pretty pointless when you can charge the same amount in quarter the time at night. So overall, if you have a 2+kW system, you might be better connecting the car to your granny charger, at the slowest rate.

Not really. For a due south 35 degree tilt a 2.5kW system would give you >2kW for 4 hours from mid April to late August assuming full sunshine. The advantage of the Zappi is it will stop automatically when you turn on the oven or put on the kettle and restart again.



Whether it makes financial sense depends on whether the person already has an EV charger, how much it will cost to get a Zappi what their base load is and how often the car is at home during the day. And of course how much the grid export payback rate is.

Deagol

Deleted User wrote: »

Well I'm a C1 looking to get into B category, so happy there

My original 2.1kw system brought the house from C1 to B3 (and I changed all the lights / bulbs to LED from the previous owners almost total reliance on incandescent!) so you should be good. I'm half tempted to get another BER done now with the 6.1kw system to see if I'd get to B2

slave1

blue chuzzle wrote: »

I see the zappi has a 1.4kw activation - that's higher than I expected, feels like a 2.5kw system might be too small to effectively use that? Anyone with a small system is a zappi charger effectively? Home all day and will be in future too.

..and just to let you know, that 1.4kW is an EV protocol, nothing to do with Zappi, for all EV's out there the minimum charge they will take is 1.4kW

KCross

slave1 wrote: »

..and just to let you know, that 1.4kW is an EV protocol, nothing to do with Zappi, for all EV's out there the minimum charge they will take is 1.4kW

Not totally true... It takes ~1.4kW to start the session but many EV's will go much lower than that before the session stops.. as low as 500W.

So, once the session starts at 1.4kW and then if a cloud rolls over and you have say, only 800W of excess, some cars will continue to charge at that 800W. The Zappi is quite happy to let the charge session continue in that case.

deravarra

slave1 wrote: »

Throw up whatever you want, I’ve filled both aspects of my semi roof with 36m2 of panels...

There was (and still could be) limitations under planning regulations about the amount of roof space covered by solar panels.

Did you ever look into what your local authority had in their regs?

slave1

Local Authority regs have never been updated from the case where Limerick Co Council lost against a lady who plastered her roof and (after appeal) won her case.
No Council will chase after that case.

MAULBROOK

deravarra wrote: »

There was (and still could be) limitations under planning regulations about the amount of roof space covered by solar panels.

Did you ever look into what your local authority had in their regs?

Well that's me fuxked with 20 panels, to be fare one next door neighbor has doubled the size of their house and the other neighbor is building a 7ft swimming pool with feck all planning permission.

SD_DRACULA

Can anyone suggest a decent company that does a full solar pv install that others have used around here?
Looking for a 4kwh system with maybe a battery.
PM me the details

DrPhilG

SD_DRACULA wrote: »

Anyone used...

There's a ban on naming suppliers in the thread, so you'll probably get edited.

championc

DrPhilG wrote: »

There's a ban on naming suppliers in the thread, so you'll probably get edited.

I think you could ask for opinions to be sent by PM

DrPhilG

championc wrote: »

I think you could ask for opinions to be sent by PM

I know, I've probably sent 50 over the last 6 months on request.

I was just letting the other poster know that they were going to get in trouble for posting the name of an installer.

championc

DrPhilG wrote: »

I know, I've probably sent 50 over the last 6 months on request.

I was just letting the other poster know that they were going to get in trouble for posting the name of an installer.

No, I think the issue would be more if you made comments about a particular installer, particularly something negative.

DrPhilG

championc wrote: »

No, I think the issue would be more if you made comments about a particular installer, particularly something negative.

But the poster here was asking for comments about a particular installer, which is highly likely to lead to the situation you describe. Plus his comment has now been edited, just for naming a company.

Also the rule isn't just about negative comments. My solar PV quote is widely regarded as one of the best value this thread has seen. I have almost entirely positive comments about my installer, the only down side being that his CT clamp positioning needed adjusted.

Yet I have to keep his company name private, then respond to dozens of PMs asking for the info, rather than just posting it once and for all in the thread and saving the bother.

The rules as I understand them are more to prevent advertising than to prevent public negative comments about a company. Yet from an advertising perspective there is no difference in me saying "Joe Bloggs is the best installer in Ireland" or me saying "I know who the best installer in Ireland is, PM me for info"!

It's a stupid rule.

championc

I don't see a difference between asking someone to PM their experience with a Solis Inverter and a installer XXXXXX. If you want specific information or opinions on something, I'm not sure as to how you are going to get what you want otherwise

DrPhilG

I'm not even sure what point you're making.

The rule says no mentioning company names (a rule I think is stupid).

I pointed this out to the poster to prevent them getting in trouble.

The poster (or the Mods) have now edited it.

MAULBROOK

There was a shameless attempt by a chancer of an installer to post his company and phone on this thread a few weeks ago.
Personally the PM work perfectly as you can give your opinion on what pro/cons of a set up to go for.
No one is forcing anyone to send PMs or to respond to them.

DrPhilG

MAULBROOK wrote: »

There was a shameless attempt by a chancer of an installer to post his company and phone on this thread a few weeks ago.

Didn't realise that.

Still, the same installer could just post on the thread pretending to be a customer and then reply to the resulting PMs.

At least if posted publicly he could be quizzed and challenged.

slave1

That installer would be found out, especially if sending unsolicited PMs

gomamochi1

championc wrote: »

I don't see a difference between asking someone to PM their experience with a Solis Inverter and a installer XXXXXX. If you want specific information or opinions on something, I'm not sure as to how you are going to get what you want otherwise

How come the likes of richer sounds can have threads and give advice etc though solar installers cant?

slave1

They’re paying for the privilege surely

blue chuzzle

in terms of the 50cm rule, is the apex of the roof an edge? would the test of an edge not be "can I fall off it"?

is there ambiguity there?

Boscoirl

According to my installer it’s 200mm from the top of the roof

KCross

blue chuzzle wrote: »

in terms of the 50cm rule, is the apex of the roof an edge? would the test of an edge not be "can I fall off it"?

is there ambiguity there?

Boscoirl wrote: »

According to my installer it’s 200mm from the top of the roof

The wording in the SEAI guidelines are

The distance between the plane of the wall or a pitched roof and the panel shall not exceed 15 cm;
The distance between the plan of a flat roof and the panel shall not exceed 50 cm;
The solar panels shall be a minimum of 50 cm from any edge of the wall or roof on which it is to be mounted;

They also have this in their checklist

Array is not minimum 500mm from roof edge
Array is not 200mm below the ridge tile

So, it sounds like the measurement is taken from the bottom of the ridge tile, not "the point where I fall off it"!

handpref

Has anyone gone down the non- grant route?
House was not occupied before 2011 so no grant available.

Looking for a recommendation for a standard solar install-
Just got a quote of €10,100 all in for a non battery 5kwp system which is crazy and makes one wonder what is going on.

Any advice on who does good work outside the grant system would be appreciated-

slave1

handpref wrote: »

Has anyone gone down the non- grant route?
House was not occupied before 2011 so no grant available.

Looking for a recommendation for a standard solar install-
Just got a quote of €10,100 all in for a non battery 5kwp system which is crazy and makes one wonder what is going on.

Any advice on who does good work outside the grant system would be appreciated-

Grant/no grant should make zero difference, you should be looking around the €7k mark for that install, my 7.4kWp with battery setup was €8.6k before grant so that's what I'm going on...