Greatest League in the World 2024 [new thread available]

irish_goat

245 fans being allowed in the Brandywell tomorrow. New stand (i.e. the old stand) only as the Mark Farren stand is used for subs, staff etc. Lucky enough to get a ticket in the members raffle myself.

tastyt

Lot of talk on pat kenny show this morning about trying to save tolka and just give it and dalymount a refurbishment. A lot of the argument around the women’s team in shelbourne not being allowed play in dalymount .

This looks like it’s going to get drawn out again and again and the new dalymount will never happen . To be honest since it’s been paired back to 6k I’d actually rathered they did a job on both stadiums and just get it done.

Tchaikovsky

joeysoap wrote: »

100 allowed in Oriel tomorrow. On the terraces and shed - stand reserved for Officials.

Might be a sign that Peak6 are going to bale? :pac:

Tchaikovsky

irish_goat wrote: »

245 fans being allowed in the Brandywell tomorrow. New stand (i.e. the old stand) only as the Mark Farren stand is used for subs, staff etc. Lucky enough to get a ticket in the members raffle myself.

Very jealous; enjoy!

Oat23

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

Might be a sign that Peak6 are going to bale? :pac:

I was listening to the press box pod earlier and James Rogers said he thinks Peak6 are on the way out and he heard they had already tried to sell. Is he reliable?

artanevilla

If they can get funding for a white water rafting centre, they can get funding for two municipal stadiums.

Pawwed Rig

artanevilla wrote: »

If they can get funding for a white water rafting centre, they can get funding for two municipal stadiums.

The problem is that they are so close together. The council won't pay for 2. There is a good argument for Shels to move out of the city to a place like Coolock/Whitehall/Artane to a new development. The ground share is a terrible idea imo. Suits the council but doesn't benefit the league at all.

artanevilla

#keepShelsoutofArtane

joeysoap

Oat23 wrote: »

I was listening to the press box pod earlier and James Rogers said he thinks Peak6 are on the way out and he heard they had already tried to sell. Is he reliable?

Depends

He had David Healy as manager
Then Jim mcGuinness
Then Vinny Perth
Then Jim Magilton

Now he says Perth is in the frame again.

A public house clock is right twice a day.

Oat23

joeysoap wrote: »

Depends

He had David Healy as manager
Then Jim mcGuinness
Then Vinny Perth
Then Jim Magilton

Now he says Perth is in the frame again.

A public house clock is right twice a day.

Was that not Gerry Malone or was it both of them?

Amirani

tastyt wrote: »

This looks like it’s going to get drawn out again and again and the new dalymount will never happen . To be honest since it’s been paired back to 6k I’d actually rathered they did a job on both stadiums and just get it done.

Council aren't going to renovate 2 stadiums under any scenario.

Gavin "shels"

Save Tolka Park officially launched at 7pm today with some excellent national media coverage throughout the day!

Official Website which includes the proposal available here savetolkapark.com/proposal, it's also linked in with UpLift in the Support section to email your local Dublin City Councillors.


https://twitter.com/SaveTolkaPark/status/1403076001471492097

dreamers75

Gavin shels wrote: »

Save Tolka Park officially launched at 7pm today with some excellent national media coverage throughout the day!

Official Website which includes the proposal available here savetolkapark.com/proposal, it's also linked in with UpLift in the Support section to email your local Dublin City Councillors.


https://twitter.com/SaveTolkaPark/status/1403076001471492097

Why now and not a few years ago? Afraid of the FAI and JD or just need them to pay off debts at the time so played along?

Best of luck 👍

CSF

dreamers75 wrote: »

Why now and not a few years ago? Afraid of the FAI and JD or just need them to pay off debts at the time so played along?

Best of luck ðŸ‘

I feel like you may not have been following goings on at Shels if you think it’s been silent consent from the fans until now. Obviously the level of organisation has recently stepped up a notch, and fair play to those responsible for that.

joeysoap

Oat23 wrote: »

Was that not Gerry Malone or was it both of them?

Me bad. Got mixed up.



Dundalk missing a few tonight. This policy of signing non Irish players coming back to bite them. Shields is suspended, Dommigan returns. Dundalk to ‘take’ back Patching when the loan is up? ( and Andrew Quinn later?)

dreamers75

CSF wrote: »

I feel like you may not have been following goings on at Shels if you think it’s been silent consent from the fans until now. Obviously the level of organisation has recently stepped up a notch, and fair play to those responsible for that.

Fans have not been silent but the club was from what I can see, wondering whats changed?

Am I right regarding FAI/Debts?

dan1895

The club is still silent and that may be for some kind of legal reason.
When this move/redevelopment was first proposed, Dalymount was to be a 10,000 seater category 4 stadium costing about €20m. It is now a 6,000 seater category 3 costing almost twice as much. Hopefully that change gives Shels some room to pull out.

We have also seen next to no work done on the project and the final design process hasn't even started as far as I'm aware.

howiya

dreamers75 wrote: »

Fans have not been silent but the club was from what I can see, wondering whats changed?

Am I right regarding FAI/Debts?

No your not right. Nothing has changed. The club's ownership have nothing to do with this and have no comment to make. They are still supporting the move to Dalymount.

This is supporter and community driven.

howiya

dan1895 wrote: »

The club is still silent and that may be for some kind of legal reason.
When this move/redevelopment was first proposed, Dalymount was to be a 10,000 seater category 4 stadium costing about €20m. It is now a 6,000 seater category 3 costing almost twice as much. Hopefully that change gives Shels some room to pull out.

We have also seen next to no work done on the project and the final design process hasn't even started as far as I'm aware.

It's quite likely that its for a legal reason. I'm sure there's agreements in place re the move.

I'm more cynical and think it's no coincidence that we have new owners who see potential in us getting access to a brand new stadium despite the fan base being largely opposed to it.

hardybuck

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

The problem is that they are so close together. The council won't pay for 2. There is a good argument for Shels to move out of the city to a place like Coolock/Whitehall/Artane to a new development. The ground share is a terrible idea imo. Suits the council but doesn't benefit the league at all.

Not only is there another LOI stadium in Council ownership around the corner, there's a huge amount of other community and recreational facilities in the area.

I respect the fans group who are campaigning to save something they love, but those making decisions on this item will have to look at this objectively, and consider a broad range of issues.

doney84

Hi, can anyone confirm if the streams on LOITV have a cast option similar to what WatchLOI had?

joeysoap

They are advertising 110 games 79c a game, that’s them all .

Kind of silly that all 3 of tonight’s of clash with

A) each other
the Euros
C) all the 1st division games

overshoot

joeysoap wrote: »

They are advertising 110 games 79c a game, that’s them all .

Kind of silly that all 3 of tonight’s of clash with

A) each other
the Euros
C) all the 1st division games

It is poor that the mid season break was before the euros rather than starting this weekend, could have easily shifted times around Ireland v andorra

dan1895

hardybuck wrote: »

Not only is there another LOI stadium in Council ownership around the corner, there's a huge amount of other community and recreational facilities in the area.

I respect the fans group who are campaigning to save something they love, but those making decisions on this item will have to look at this objectively, and consider a broad range of issues.

What facilities would these be? There were speakers from both Home Farm and Drumcondra AFC at the launch last night talking about the lack of facilities in the Drumcondra area.

overshoot

dan1895 wrote: »

What facilities would these be? There were speakers from both Home Farm and Drumcondra AFC at the launch last night talking about the lack of facilities in the Drumcondra area.

Both clubs would be within 4.5km driving of both dalymount and Morton stadiums... They have their own pitches on top of other soccer clubs in the area.
Irene sports club is right next to tolka with tennis, pitch and putt, bowling greens, another pitch and putt off Philipsburg AVE, skate park and pitches in fairview, the handball centre at Croke park, other Astros dotted around... Belvedere rugby across the river, st Vincent's, na Fianna gaa, Basketball at mountjoy and courtlands...

While I'd like to see tolka kept at least as a recreational space and we should always be trying to provide more sports facilities... The area isn't that short either

dan1895

The points made by both Drumcondra and Home Farm was they want to keep all their teams in the Drumcondra area but currently cannot. They don't want to be going to Phibsboro or Santry. The redevelopment of Tolka including a full size hybrid pitch helps both clubs keep their teams in the area.

Good points also being made about the Shelbourne and Bohemians women's teams who have not been factored into the Dalymount move. Shels have a number of internationals who ply their club trade in Tolka. Is the expectation is for athletes of their stature to downgrade their playing environment to the Oscar Treanor or the AUL?

CSF

overshoot wrote: »

Both clubs would be within 4.5km driving of both dalymount and Morton stadiums... They have their own pitches on top of other soccer clubs in the area.
Irene sports club is right next to tolka with tennis, pitch and putt, bowling greens, another pitch and putt off Philipsburg AVE, skate park and pitches in fairview, the handball centre at Croke park, other Astros dotted around... Belvedere rugby across the river, st Vincent's, na Fianna gaa, Basketball at mountjoy and courtlands...

While I'd like to see tolka kept at least as a recreational space and we should always be trying to provide more sports facilities... The area isn't that short either

Do you see a common trend among the facilities you mentioned?

Dr. Bre

Kick the dogs out and move into shelbourne park

dan1895

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Kick the dogs out and move into shelbourne park

Moving back to Ringsend was explored years ago by the Trust I think. Absolutely no potential in it.

Annd9

overshoot wrote: »

Both clubs would be within 4.5km driving of both dalymount and Morton stadiums... They have their own pitches on top of other soccer clubs in the area.
Irene sports club is right next to tolka with tennis, pitch and putt, bowling greens, another pitch and putt off Philipsburg AVE, skate park and pitches in fairview, the handball centre at Croke park, other Astros dotted around... Belvedere rugby across the river, st Vincent's, na Fianna gaa, Basketball at mountjoy and courtlands...

While I'd like to see tolka kept at least as a recreational space and we should always be trying to provide more sports facilities... The area isn't that short either

Unfortunately a lot of the amenities you have mentioned are either gone ,going or not in any way suitable for our youth .
The pitch and putt on Philipsburgh AVE is gone along with the one on Griffith AVE . One is currently being built on the other is waiting for planning permission .

The Irene is an old folks club which is not very
welcoming to younger members from my own experience (who under the age of 60 plays bowls anyway? ) . Skateparks , handball alleys and public parks with hugh anti social problems do not solve the problem of facilities for sports teams in the area .

Na Fianna have something like 4,000 members but only own 1 pitch in the area , similarly St Vincent's only own 2 pitches .

Having seen so much housing development in the area with 1000's of more units planned for Clonliffe collage , St Vincent's hospital , behind the Irene club itself and multiple developments on the grace park road , I find it very disheartening that not one public amenity has been announced for the area .

I've lived in the area for over 30 years, I feel my kids will have literally nowhere local to play sports in decent facilities .

CSF

The mad thing about this is that if this was some League 2 team in England, people would be up in arms about it.

Drumpot

Annd9 wrote: »

Unfortunately a lot of the amenities you have mentioned are either gone ,going or not in any way suitable for our youth .
The pitch and putt on Philipsburgh AVE is gone along with the one on Griffith AVE . One is currently being built on the other is waiting for planning permission .

The Irene is an old folks club which is not very
welcoming to younger members from my own experience (who under the age of 60 plays bowls anyway? ) . Skateparks , handball alleys and public parks with hugh anti social problems do not solve the problem of facilities for sports teams in the area .

Na Fianna have something like 4,000 members but only own 1 pitch in the area , similarly St Vincent's only own 2 pitches .

Having seen so much housing development in the area with 1000's of more units planned for Clonliffe collage , St Vincent's hospital , behind the Irene club itself and multiple developments on the grace park road , I find it very disheartening that not one public amenity has been announced for the area .

I've lived in the area for over 30 years, I feel my kids will have literally nowhere local to play sports in decent facilities .

This is a major issue I’d have with many councils. Building houses everywhere without any amenities or regard for impact on area. You can bet your ass that both stadiums would end up as apartments at some stage down the line.

I’ve very fond memories growing up and going to games at Tolka. Seems like a lot of people fall back on the practical and financial costs of the stadiums which is only one side of the debate. Sell off that horrible spire in o Connell street and maybe ditch a few of the more narcissistic cultural plans politicians pump money into so they will be remembered and honoured. What was wasted on the Bertie bowl could of funded the redevelopment of both stadiums. It’s amazing how money matters when it’s a specific thing being mentioned but nobody actually cares about all the ambiguous wastage from all aspects of government and public services.

I’m hoping to bring my children to tolka park as it Opens up. It would be superb if they could do some work on the stadium but help it retain the old look and feel. Doesn’t need corporate bars etc.

hardybuck

dan1895 wrote: »

What facilities would these be? There were speakers from both Home Farm and Drumcondra AFC at the launch last night talking about the lack of facilities in the Drumcondra area.

There is an abundance of parks, you're close to the seafront, there are rugby clubs, GAA clubs, soccer clubs, tennis clubs, golf clubs - you name it.

I don't think the community would benefit from having two publicly owned LOI grounds within 3km of each other, that's just not a good use of public resources.

Perhaps the fan group should try and buy it from the Council.

Alternatively the Council should give the use of it to the likes of Home Farm, Drumcondra FC, Belvedere, Na Fianna, St. Vincent's etc.

dan1895

Where is the seafront in Drumcondra? Public parks don't cut it for a club the size of Home Farm.
Dublin's North Inner City is the most densely populated area in the state. There should be a plan to increase amenities in the area not reduce them.

artanevilla

dan1895 wrote: »

Where is the seafront in Drumcondra? Public parks don't cut it for a club the size of Home Farm.
Dublin's North Inner City is the most densely populated area in the state. There should be a plan to increase amenities in the area not reduce them.

The sea sometimes comes up the river into Tolka Park itself sure.

dan1895

artanevilla wrote: »

The sea sometimes comes up the river into Tolka Park itself sure.

That it does. Why anyone would want to build homes there is worrying.

howiya

hardybuck wrote: »

I don't think the community would benefit from having two publicly owned LOI grounds within 3km of each other, that's just not a good use of public resources.

Who is "the community"? They are different areas and different communities.

hardybuck

dan1895 wrote: »

Where is the seafront in Drumcondra? Public parks don't cut it for a club the size of Home Farm.
Dublin's North Inner City is the most densely populated area in the state. There should be a plan to increase amenities in the area not reduce them.

Clearly you didn't make full use of the 5km from home during lockdown then!

hardybuck

howiya wrote: »

Who is "the community"? They are different areas and different communities.

Regardless of what you describe it as there's no sense in having two publicly owned LOI grounds within 3km of each other.

If keeping the ground for recreational use is the genuine objective, then a viable alternative might be to put astro on it and turn it a multipurpose facility that a range of different sports clubs in the area can have equal access to.

CSF

hardybuck wrote: »

Regardless of what you describe it as there's no sense in having two publicly owned LOI grounds within 3km of each other.

If keeping the ground for recreational use is the genuine objective, then a viable alternative might be to put astro on it and turn it a multipurpose facility that a range of different sports clubs in the area can have equal access to.

In practical terms, how do you think the situation would realistically differ at LOI level if the grounds were say 10 km from each other?

howiya

hardybuck wrote: »

Regardless of what you describe it as there's no sense in having two publicly owned LOI grounds within 3km of each other.

If keeping the ground for recreational use is the genuine objective, then a viable alternative might be to put astro on it and turn it a multipurpose facility that a range of different sports clubs in the area can have equal access to.

There already is two publicly owned LOI grounds within 3km of each other.

Dublin City Council owned Tolka Park long before they acquired Dalymount. Maybe that was the time to argue that there doesn't need to be two publically owned LOI grounds. I don't recall you making that argument in 2015 when they bought it. If I'm wrong feel free to correct me.

Should we get rid of Donnybrook, RDS etc? Sure the Aviva is around the corner. These grounds aren't publically owned but plenty of exchequer funding has and will go into them.

You're focused on the 3km but it's irrelevant really. Are you saying you'd be happy for public money to be spent on another LOI ground if it was further away? What's the optimal distance?

irishmanmick

hardybuck wrote: »

If keeping the ground for recreational use is the genuine objective, then a viable alternative might be to put astro on it and turn it a multipurpose facility that a range of different sports clubs in the area can have equal access to.

The objective is to save Tolka Park, the argument is that it is a public amenity for the community. Therein lies one of the biggest flaws of this campaign, would saving Tolka Park provide an amenity for the community? For me it doesn't tick that box, the pitch would be used by Shels exclusively (or 90% exclusively). But it wouldn't provide somewhere for other clubs to play / train.

Another flaw is the figures mentioned in the proposal. The proposal mentions the cost of Dalymount a few times, without addressing the fact that the Dalymount redevelopment has been fully costed, not estimated (as this proposal has been), and is much more expensive. How is it that the same work can be cheaper to do 3km from the other one? It mentions that the Dalymount Redevelopment is likely to rise in cost again due to inflation in the construction industry, while at the same time implying that a Tolka redevelopment would be immune to this same increase.

I do wonder if the plan was not to move to Dalymount, but to move to a new Stadium shared with Bohs that was not Dalymount or Tolka, would Shels fan be starting this campaign? I fully understand Shels fans point of view on that point

dan1895

Where have you seen that Shels would have exclusive use and if you have seen that why are the other Drumcondra clubs backing this campaign?

Annd9

I'm not sure people commenting on this here have fully read the proposal ? It specifically says it will be open to other clubs to use , it's the main reason I hope the campaign is successful .

topmanamillion

Annd9 wrote: »

I'm not sure people commenting on this here have fully read the proposal ? It specifically says it will be open to other clubs to use , it's the main reason I hope the campaign is successful .

Don't all these proposals include buzz words like "community" "inclusivity" "amenity" and "multipurpose"? Very wishy washy meaningless stuff.

This league must hold the world record for PDF plans and stadium mock ups!

irishmanmick

But how is a football stadium a public amenity? Will the Drumcondra U8s train on the pitch Monday & Wednesday 6-7pm? The Home Farm Over 35s play on every other Friday night? How will is be used as a public amenity? It will host Shels games and it may host a handful of 'big' games for the likes of Home Farm or Drumcondra but it won't be a full access amenity for them. The same argument exists for any stadium.

If the argument is for public amenities, then as another poster has mentioned, there is many better uses for the site than to build a football stadium.

hardybuck

CSF wrote: »

In practical terms, how do you think the situation would realistically differ at LOI level if the grounds were say 10 km from each other?

In practical terms, and in relation to that part of Dublin, if there was a 10 km distance separating the grounds there's a strong chance that they'd be owned by two different Councils and they'd be facilities enjoyed by the residents of two different urban areas.

howiya

hardybuck wrote: »

In practical terms, and in relation to that part of Dublin, if there was a 10 km distance separating the grounds there's a strong chance that they'd be owned by two different Councils and they'd be facilities enjoyed by the residents of two different urban areas.

So only one facility per local authority. What should Pats do?

hardybuck

howiya wrote: »

There already is two publicly owned LOI grounds within 3km of each other.

Dublin City Council owned Tolka Park long before they acquired Dalymount. Maybe that was the time to argue that there doesn't need to be two publically owned LOI grounds. I don't recall you making that argument in 2015 when they bought it. If I'm wrong feel free to correct me.

Should we get rid of Donnybrook, RDS etc? Sure the Aviva is around the corner. These grounds aren't publically owned but plenty of exchequer funding has and will go into them.

You're focused on the 3km but it's irrelevant really. Are you saying you'd be happy for public money to be spent on another LOI ground if it was further away? What's the optimal distance?

I think it was clear from 2015 onwards that when the Council had to step in and buy the second facility that something had to give.

Funnily enough all the facilities you mentioned are, in addition to being privately owned, multipurpose facilities which many different clubs and sports get to use on a regular basis.

Regarding the proximity of grounds, yeah I think each of the Dublin Council areas should have a team. There isn't a LOI team in Fingal at the moment, there's stadia like Morton Stadium that could be utilised, and I'd be happy for public money being used to support Shelbourne's move to somewhere like that. Did wonders for Shamrock Rovers.

CSF

Annd9 wrote: »

I'm not sure people commenting on this here have fully read the proposal ? It specifically says it will be open to other clubs to use , it's the main reason I hope the campaign is successful .

To be fair, when have people on the Internet ever not wanted to be contrarian about things they know very little about?