Greatest League in the World 2024 [new thread available]

hardybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118207063#Comment_118207063

It tells you a lot about the weaknesses with the structure of the game in Ireland more generally. Waterford wasn't particularly well run in recent years but it wouldn't have the scale of a club like Cork who look like an absolute basket case - they should be challenging for the Premier Division title every other year with the level of support they have.

However there is a very weak link between schoolboy football and LOI clubs, and pretty much no link at all between junior/intermediate football and LOI. In Waterford rather play junior league and never step up to LOI, in Cork the Munster Senior League is the main show in town.

In my opinion the clubs in Munster would have an easier time competing with the GAA and rugby for talent if there was a clearer development pathway, if it was easier to play at LOI level without needing to travel big distances and if facilities were better.

topmanamillion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118207198#Comment_118207198

Powers management of Waterford was throw money at them and hope they land in Europe. After they were thrown out of Europe he threw the toys out of the pram even though he was in the wrong.

The FORAS lads at Cork got off to a good start but when it came to tightening the budget they seemed incapable of pulling back and having a few sensible seasons of mid-table finishes.

Limerick had POS who preferred watch it all sink than sell it on. Supposedly the main reason Treaty did so well this year was the junior leagues were suspended so the better junior players either played for them or sat it out for a season.

All 3 have tried to throw money at it without doing anything to net structures together and increase community buy in.

hardybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118207433#Comment_118207433

Power had to spend money to get them from Div 1 to 4th in the Premier. He should be credited for rescuing the club and handing it back in a much better condition than he found it.

Cork had the best support in the league and no competition in the second largest city in Ireland. They can't be compared with anyone else in terms of financial mismanagement except for Dundalk.

Limerick is another kettle of fish. Rugby and hurling have a dominant position over everything else.

joeysoap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118206969#Comment_118206969

So had Kenny

joeysoap

Noticed Warrenpoint Town had ‘come on the town’ on one of the signs behind the goals when I was watching NILF highlights tonight. 😅

there seemed to be decent crowds at the ‘bigger’ matches and the grounds appear better than ours. I’m not surprised Aaron McCarey is playing in the NIFL. The standard of goalkeeping appears to vary a lot, from good to awful.

Ohmeha

So Marc Bircham has now been SACKED this morning with just 3 days until their relegation play-off....

Another #greatestleagueintheworld addition

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/crisis-at-waterford-fc-as-manager-marc-bircham-is-sacked-before-fridays-promotionrelegation-playoff-41080359.html

hardybuck

More shambles in Waterford. I can't believe it.

There is simply no league like the League of Ireland.

sonic85

That's brutal in fairness. I hope they can still get the job done but that really throws a spanner in the works. You'd have to think UCD will really fancy it though now that Waterford are in disarray

Pawwed Rig

I thought he did well since he took over. His record was comparable with teams much higher in the table.

Reminds me of Spurs sacking Mourinho a week before a cup final

Oat23

Feel a bit bad for the lad who just moved over from the Bahamas after Bircham working to make it happen for months. Now Bircham is gone and he might end up spending his Friday nights playing Cabinteely and Athlone away.

According to the tweet Bircham made this morning just before 8am he was suspended for 1 week. Then at half-8 Waterford tweeted that he was sacked. Sacked because of the tweet?

I also noticed his tweet this morning has the location as Kings Langley is Hertfordshire. Could the owner have been p*ssed off that he went back to England a few days before the playoff?

hardybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209784#Comment_118209784

I think the owner (Richard Forrest) is a bit of a grafter from the east end of London who owns a chain of children's nurseries. He has one son in the squad who isn't really making the team and another who is knocking around the UK lower leagues somewhere.

Reading between the lines he seems like an enthusiastic sort of guy who has put a fair bit of energy (and probably money) into Waterford but is lacking experience in running a club and being in the public eye. He appointed a young guy called Cowling as club Chairman (his Dad owns Colchester United) but there hasn't been a peep out of him since.

This incident with Bircham is bizarre and out of the blue. He signed a two year contract earlier in the season, and I wouldn't be surprised if he was a bit too forthcoming with his views over text and ended up getting the boot over it. Really unprofessional and unsavory affair which reflects poorly on the club and on the league.

It also appears that there has been some tension about U19 players getting released to train/play with the first team squad. That might have become pretty heated for the last game against St Pat's when only 12 outfield players were available for selection.

The laissez-faire approach from the FAI in terms of club ownership really has to come to an end. There is lots they could be doing as a governing body to help clubs to be run better, but it seems that anyone foolish enough to invest in a LOI club will be welcomed with open arms at the moment.

Ohmeha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209784#Comment_118209784

If he was suspended for a week with the season over on Friday night anyway it would make sense that he had just returned to Hertfordshire

Unless Bircham had threatened to kill the owners family or something whatever dispute with the owner really should have been left on ice to be resolved until after Friday night, crazy time for this to happen to Waterford's players and fans

Dr. Bre

Bircham has said he first heard about it on Twitter

Oat23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210265#Comment_118210265

He has a tweet on his account from yesterday morning too with the location as Hertfordshire. The tweet from this morning says the suspension only came last night after a text convo.

Probably nothing but I found it odd that he was in England yesterday and today when they've got a playoff on Friday.

fullstop

Waterford is an absolute basket case of a club 😄

Ferris_Bueller

A joke really, wonder what happened there. Bircham a bit of a character but I liked him and Waterford and thought they could do OK next year if they stayed up. Slim chance of it now, UCD will be rubbing their hands together. Always some basket case of a club in the league.

Pawwed Rig

Owner is saying he was backed into a corner without going into more detail

topmanamillion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210778#Comment_118210778

Yup, think you'd need to be fairly niave to think a creche owner and a fella with Birchams track record was going to turn it around. Local support is very fickle down there so its left up to cowboys like them and Power.

By Forrests own admission his misses runs the creches and he was bored at home and kind of stumbled on Waterford by accident. He was looking for a lower league club in England.

If pretty much any of the basket case clubs in the midlands/south are going to be successful they need local buy in and support from junior clubs. Benefactors spunking money for a few years is pointless in this league.

topmanamillion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118207999#Comment_118207999

Power blew a wad of cash unnecessarily on getting Waterford out of the FD. It costs upwards of €1 million to get promoted out of a part time/amateur league? No chance.

There was no effort by Power to build structures and links with local junior clubs. He wanted instant gratification and European football. When his wink and a nod session with JD fell through he gave up and the team has been patched together with journey men English lower league players.

While Waterford are better off right now it wont take long for them to drop back to where they were.

NIMAN

Good to hear yesterday that there is 30000 tickets sold so far for the cup final.

Will be the biggest attendance ever by the looks of it.

Let's hope the teams put on a good show for it........And that Pats win!

artanevilla

Hopefully can make the record, with Covid situation a lot of neutrals or less passionate fans will be reluctant.

hardybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118214183#Comment_118214183

A million to get out of the league? That's a new one for me. But he did have to clear a lot of debt, players hadn't been paid and there were only a few hundred turning up at matches.

You're absolutely correct about him not building links with local junior clubs, but he certainly wouldn't be the first or last club owner to do that.

Your disdain for the club is a bit disappointing, I think most genuine LOI fans would prefer to see a good Waterford side in the Premier. Outside of Dublin and Cork, Waterford is way ahead of other counties in terms of producing Irish internationals - and with more kids staying here until they're at least 18 now I think you'll start to see more of those lads coming through the club's academy. It's a bit frustrating that bad owners can come in for a couple of years and sully the club's reputation.

dfx-

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118214174#Comment_118214174

And yet they did turn it around. A big home attendance for 9th place, 40 points and they were more than competitive. The attendance against Rovers and Pats matched the seasons they did better in the table under Power. In no other season would they be in the playoff. Which considering where they were, no local manager was doing.

It's very cynical to be playing down their success and their value and their owner, but that is what we tend to love to do.

- bo -

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118214509#Comment_118214509

I think 30,000+ is superb considering it's really only been the two clubs promoting it.

While they're not worth the time it'd take to type out a long-winded rant, the combines publicity given by the FAI & RTÉ has been worse than even I could've expected, and I had extremely low expectations...

NIMAN

We'd expect nothing more from the FAI to be honest.

And RTE, well to be fair to them, it's not their job to promote it. But if it was some county gaa final they'd be all over it.

tastyt

Yea it’s a **** disgrace really . You’d have to be a fan to even know the cup final is on

ArnoldJRimmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118217654#Comment_118217654

While RTE are guilty of gross negligence on their LOI coverage, I have to pull you up on your last point. If it wasn't for TG4, we'd see no grassroots GAA either! In fact, I'd love to see TG4 take over the LOI rights, think they'd do a great job at promoting the game

shanec1928

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118217851#Comment_118217851

They always did a good job when they used to cover games years back.

Tom2

35000 sold now. It’s going to be a great showcase for the domestic game and both teams have some really skilful players so there’s a decent chance the entertainment value will match the huge crowd.

tastyt

As someone else said it’s amazing that we could have close to 40K at the cup final with absolutely no help from our national tv / Radio / Media compared to the effort put into promoting other sports .

It just shows the massive untapped potential of the league if it was in the right hands and parts of the country weren’t totally forgotten about

shanec1928

any excuse to post this since the record is set to be broken.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF4TOI_CANQ

Gavin "shels"

Always baffled at how Ciaran Kelly got away with them antics two years in a row!

dfx-

We are looking for the negative again. It is set for one of the highest attended cup finals ever between a relatively small fanbase of Pats who average 4,000 when they're winning the league and Bohs, 2nd and 5th in the league.

There isn't the Derry crowds of the late 80s and their huge following or the heyday of the 50s crowds or a 1st v 2nd rivalry, but we are still complaining it should be more.

The biggest LOI critics are LOI fans.

joeysoap

Dundalk are advertising a Black Friday sale. Which has to be a joke of some sort.

topmanamillion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118217173#Comment_118217173

Nah, not buying any of that. 9th place above Longford after gambling on Sheedy as manager with a thread bare squad, now the new owner sacks the manager days before the play-offs supposedly with the fact he wouldn`t play the owners son being a "factor. Basket case stuff on a level Cork and Dundalk could relate with.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118214879#Comment_118214879

E3 million in 5 years to leave them in a relegation play-off when he left. No sustainability and no structures. It`s just not good enough and it`s a mistake thats constantly repeated.

I`ve no disdain for Waterford, that's a bit of a dramatic comment really.

I remember commenting on here around the time that Limerick were promoted that the whole thing was a disaster waiting to happen and being told Limerick were a well run club, they got decent attendances around then too same as Waterford.

I`d agree theres a lot of potential in Waterford with the right people in charge before Power it fell to one or two locals to trudge along in the First Division. Then Power (a swiss tax exile) came in and now Forrest (a board creche owner). There doesn`t seem to be any appetite locally to run the club or get involved in its running which says a lot about it.

fullstop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118223330#Comment_118223330

The point you make about Limerick is very relevant to Waterford a couple of years ago too. The year they came up and were flinging money around the place there were posters on here saying it wasn’t sustainable, to be told by some of the Waterford fans that they were only jealous.

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118222767#Comment_118222767

We already bought Duffy, McEleney and Patching in the pre-Black Friday sale.

joeysoap

thats partly what I was joking about.

with Scottish clubs sniffing around Cleary and Slogett ( and the rest) there’s not much left.i can see Dundalk with a lot of l(xchannel) loans next year

hardybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118223330#Comment_118223330

While you make some valid points, your tone has been pretty disdainful throughout.

I think the elephant in the room with all of this is that there is a fairly slim chance of most LOI clubs breaking even - it's not sustainable and probably hasn't ever been, particularly for those outside Dublin.

The likes of Bohs can break even if they can maintain good support and access to regular stream of quality young players via St Kevin's and from around the general area. Or perhaps Shamrock Rovers who going forward should expect European football every year, the money from which is way greater than other clubs in the league can realistically hope to earn. Sligo are a freak who get huge support from the community in a place where neither the GAA or rugby is particularly strong.

In that context you're realistically hoping from investment from:

a) people with megabucks who see it as a philanthropic exercise;

b) investment funds who can come in and rack up debt at the club's expense before flogging it on to the next guy;

c) those who've landed a few bob but aren't the most business savvy; and

d) the fan owned option which we'll have to see more of.

Waterford had a pretty horrendous recession which it's only really starting to emerge from in the last 2-3 years. Unsurprisingly there hasn't been too many locals willing to put themselves forward as sacrificial lambs for the sake of Waterford United/FC. We've ended up with Power and Forrest - and to a certain extent you've got to just hope for the best in that type of scenario. The FAI seem to have an open door policy for anyone who wants to pony up the cash and invest in a club.

Power thought he could make it work, and very nearly did in fairness. The European thing genuinely crushed him I think, emotionally and financially. An exception that was made for another club wasn't made for Waterford (no moaning there just stating the fact), and I think he suffered financially after investing in a squad built to play in European games after the FAI CEO assured him that he'd get an exception too. COVID then coming soon enough afterwards finished him off, and he's now out of two football clubs - another man with his fingers burned.

I understand that a local was in talks to buy the club from Power in 2020, but wisely backed out of it. The lad Forrest seems like a nice enough fella, but I think we all understand that he (and probably everyone like him who invests in a LOI club) will be gone in a couple of years when he's realised how much of a money pit it is and when he's lost enthusiasm for all the hassle involved.

They've finished 9th overall this season, but were probably 4th-5th in the part of the season after the club changed hands. Fairly respectable when they had to field an U19 team in one of the fixtures (they'd have finished 7th if they'd won that particular game) and didn't have enough players to fill a bench for a lot of games.

Darkglasses

Tony Richardson (Cabinteely club Chairman) has acquired majority stake in Bray Wanderers, the merger/takeover should be confirmed today.

Darkglasses

Statement is up https://twitter.com/BrayWanderers/status/1464187369834360833/photo/1

Can't imagine Bray fans being happy with diluting their identity, and obviously don't expect any of the few hundred Cabinteely fans to go and support a team down in Bray. I think its sad really

hardybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225577#Comment_118225577

Makes total sense if they can have a stronger club and better links to underage and junior football.

Bray is about the same distance to Cabinteely as Blackrock. What they call the club will be interesting.

Darkglasses

It's the same distance as St. Pats and Shamrock Rovers, too

hardybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225712#Comment_118225712

It's not really. Bray and Cabinteely are neighbouring subarbs of Dublin that can probably tap into local clubs and schools in that area.

Tallaght and Inchicore are further away and would have much less in common with Cabinteely than Bray. Also, and quite importantly, the clubs in those two areas just happen to be the top two in the country at the moment and not looking for a merger.

Darkglasses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225769#Comment_118225769

It's 11.7km drive between Stradbrook and Carlisle Grounds and 11.7km drive between Richmond and Tallaght. I'm not suggesting that Pats and Rovers merge - the opposite in fact. Cabinteely and Bray aren't even in the same county.

I think the response of Bray fans is a fairly clear indication that they don't want this, particularly if it means a name change for a club they've probably viewed with complete derision for the last few seasons, I do think that's quite important.

And looking at the underage national leagues, neither club is exactly a powerhouse. Bray & Cabinteely finished last and second last of their U19 Shield group, both 7 points adrift of Dundalk. U17 Bray finished mid-table in the elite phase, and Cabinteely finished mid-table in the Shield. Similar story in the U15s and U14s - fairly average results.

hardybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225829#Comment_118225829

Your argument about distance is fundamentally flawed because you've measured the distance from Stradbrook (which is in Blackrock) to Bray when you should have been measuring the distance from Cabinteely.

Your points about being in different counties is a bit dated as well - they're neighbouring suburbs of Dublin. Supporters will be able to take the Dublin Area Rapid Transport system (otherwise known as the DART) to the games in Bray.

I agree that the name change will be difficult and it'll be interesting to see what they end up with.

Kingp35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225577#Comment_118225577

What a pointless statement, it tells us absolutely nothing! What will the club be named etc? It could basically be the end of Bray Wanderers. I've no interest in supporting East Coast FC.

johnnyryan89

Should keep the name as is. Don't think the name hinders support from people that aren't from the area as much as some would make you believe. Limerick at the time had supporters coming in from Tipp, Clare, Cork, and Kerry at times.

Keep the name and fans that are currently there happy, and work towards building relationships with those in the wider Wicklow and South Dublin community.

Darkglasses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225941#Comment_118225941

I would also like to keep the name as is, Bray Wanderers is a very familiar name in the LOI and anything in-betweeny feels like a total cop out.

My concern is that it's obviously Cabinteely's chairman who has put up the money to buy Bray - he's hardly going to want the Cabinteely name to disappear?

I also thought the statement as a whole was poor. Doesn't really give the Bray fans any confidence about how things are going to go for their club's identity from their new majority owner.

Mushy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225932#Comment_118225932

Sums it up. Think will be a disaster move