Greatest League in the World 2024 [new thread available]

PGE1970

Ben,

Is Jordan Adeyamo getting a game?

artanevilla

Was there anything in the FAI's recent plan to cover the standard of refereeing?

ben.schlomo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118734814#Comment_118734814

He started last night due to a suspension for Waweru. He was awful, as was the whole team, first half. Came out 2nd half with a rocket up his arse. Combined brilliantly with Dimas for the opener, they linked, it went wide , Dimas crossed and Jordan scored with a super placed header.

His second half was a huge improvement, his link play was better and he looked more confident. Hopefully it keeps going that way.

PGE1970

He's very quick Ben but a bit of a headless chicken.

He's very likeable and game though and I hope he does well.

topmanamillion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118735144#Comment_118735144

Massive issues with retaining refs at grassroots level which naturally feeds into the league. Two thirds of new refs leave within 2 years because of abuse. And last weekend a ref in his 60s was beaten up during a game and had his bicycle trashed. Who'd sign up for that?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/extra.ie/2022/03/03/news/irish-news/soccer-referee-60s-chased-beaten%3famp=1

NIMAN

Happy to get the 3pts at Tolka, despite not playing great. Thought we were always in control, and with Duffy to come into the team it should make us a lot more attacking.

Shels had a good shape and defended as a team, and it's often hard to break that down. Had a bit of luck with the goal ok, keeper seemed to spill a relatively easy header to McEleney.

Rovers already beaten twice, perhaps this league might be a lot tighter than I thought it would be. Thought Rovers would walk it this year.

joeysoap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118735144#Comment_118735144

What we want is consistency.. what Paul McLoughlin considers normal Hennessy deem a penalty. (Dundalk would never have won the fai cup in 2020 if McLoughlin was the ref) as for McGraith ....he’s resuming where Buttimer left off. And these are the better ones. Most of them belong in a hone for the bewildered.....when a ref blows his whistle you just don’t know if it’s a free out or penalty he’ll give. As for assistant referee.... a corruption of the word assistant.

Pawwed Rig

Even in EPL with VAR at their disposal there is still discontent with refereeing. It might be something we just need to live with.

I don't know why anyone would want to be a referee in football. Zero respect with the real fear of assault and for what? A few quid that will make no real difference to your life

joeysoap

Agree it’s a pointless task, doesn’t stop us groaning when we see whose in charge though. 😰

joeysoap

I'll take that. Sligo didn't have a shot on target in the entire game. Dundalk had 1. Sounds like a cracker.

Not

Oat23

Poor game on an awful pitch. Both teams had a few chances though. Keena flashed a shot wide when through after a Neil Doyle howler where he didn't stop the game after getting hit with the ball. Banks also hit the top of the bar with a header.

Draw probably fair but there won't be many classics on that pitch until it's sorted.

Can't complain too much about the start. A win at Pats, a draw in Derry and another against Dundalk. I'd have taken 5 points from those in pre-season.

3,250 in attendance.

damemcd

in the interests of consistently...and calling out gougers....will Pats be doing anything about the bottle throwing sections of their stand?

Drumpot

Was disappointed with shels on Friday. There was a good crowd, massive que outside just before kickoff, I felt like a champ strolling past to walk in the season ticket holders entrance.

Im hoping they are being very defensive early doors to get some points on the board and will expand out with a more attacking tactic as the season progresses. Their best spell was just after HT but it didn’t last long. They look very vulnerable at the back, particularly when they go a goal down the system seems to useless (as they don’t pose a threat).

Have to say I’m really enjoying getting down to Tolka. Shame petrol prices are going up so much , I’ve a 90km round trip that’s starting to pinch.

joeysoap

Odonnelll hopeing there no first timers in sligo as he says 'they wont be back

You' can say what you like about Shamrock Rovers but the pitch iis always good.

Is that due to sdcc or Rovers or a bit of both?

NIMAN

Thought the Tolka pitch looked poor too. Very bumpy.

But we have just come out of the winter, pitches usually not in great nick this time of year, but they will improve.

irishmanmick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118735807#Comment_118735807

Absolutely agree. The abuse refs get at grassroot level is a real issue. I genuinely don't know how they manage to get enough refs to fulfil fixtures. No amount of money would have me do it.

chopperbyrne

Looking through Rovers fixtures list, and seems to be quite a few Monday evening matches.

Anyone know why this was done?

I can take my youngfella to a match on Friday evenings fine because he has no school the next day, but no way I can bring him on Mondays. I drive up from Carlow, so it's way too late to be getting him home.

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118744797#Comment_118744797

I think maybe because there are more games this season, so more midweek, or as they often are in loi, Monday night games.

DvB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118744797#Comment_118744797

I'm in the same boat re: bringing my kids to the games, Fridays are fine but Mondays unfortunately with us having 8pm KO's means they'd get home too late so they miss out.

topmanamillion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118744797#Comment_118744797

Fixture lists are always congested. It'll be the same for all the sides in Europe in particular.

Season runs from 18th of February to 4th November, which is 37 weeks.

There's 36 league games +FAI Cup +Europe. You see the problem?. They're trying to get as many Monday nights in now because if a few sides progress in Europe they'll be looking for fixtures to be rearranged.

Obvious thing would be to extend the season but the part-timers can't afford that. They give 40/42 week contracts and they need a few weeks for pre-season.

Ohmeha

4 midweek round of games out of 36 really isn't too bad at all for what is nearly a full-time league. Front loading those midweek fixtures to the first half of the season during the cold dark months definitely less appealing for families than during the summer months but it's necessary for easy rescheduling of re-arranged fixtures in the 2nd half of the season

Oat23

Interesting article from Neil O'Riordan. I agree with what he says. The sporadic broadcasting of games does not help. Even as a LOI fan there were several times last season I didn't realise a game was on RTE until right before it started or was already in progress.

If they are unwilling to commit to broadcasting more games it's pointless. The lad from RTE has used the "viewing figures" as an excuse in the past, but if you show games randomly every few weeks and barely advertise them how are you going to increase those numbers?

I remember during a world cup/euros a few years ago at the end of RTE's coverage Darragh Maloney said something like "there's no football tomorrow but we'll be back on air Saturday", completely ignoring the fact RTE had a LOI game on the Friday night. Could've promoted the LOI game there, but let's be honest the lads working on the tournament for RTE probably didn't even know it was on.

Without weekly matches, RTÉ is not helping raise awareness of the league in a meaningful way.

The live broadcasts become something someone might happen to catch rather than habit-forming ones which people set out to watch.

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football/8469996/rte-weekly-matches-league-of-ireland-raise-awareness/

topmanamillion

RTE are never consistently going to show 30+ LOI games.

And there's no alternative because no-one else wants to show them.

RTE do contribute a 6 figure sum towards the league so there's a clear financial benefit to having them involved.

I remember following the league and it was only a highlights show on TV3 with Paul Osam and Trevor Welch sitting on stools trying to find talking points in dodgy footage. We now have social media and instant goal footage. Night and day stuff.

Some of the best LOI goals do very well on social media with a few getting a couple of 100k in views and a few even getting millions. That kind of exposure is never happening for the league of terrestrial TV and its where the league should focus its energy. Let RTE do whatever,we're not going to change them.

On a side note Mark Scanlons comment this week that a good few relatively big leagues in Europe aren't getting anywhere near the TV money we'd expect got me a bit curious to look into it and he's right to be fair. The Czech league (both Prague clubs and Victoria Plzen) gets £5 million between 16 top flight clubs. The Swiss league (Young boys, Basel, Zurich) shares £17 million between 10. You could argue people attend games in those countries and thats their main source of income but I think its a good example of the surprisingly low TV money that leagues with a decent European pedigree get. They are also countries where football is the only show in town. The EPL TV deal has probably thrown off peoples perception of what is realistic.

irishmanmick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118755152#Comment_118755152

But they are perfectly capable of showing 30+ LOI games. If football is on very Friday night, people will watch it. Pubs will put it on if no other game on, just to have sports on their screens. It builds habits if it's on every Friday. But as @Oat23 said, you don't even know when the sporadic games are on. They don't push them on their social media platforms even.

I agree with the article completely, think FI/LOI should move away from broadcasters that don't commit to showing game every week.

RTE contributing 6 figure sum to league? Never seen that before? I thought the FI/RTE deal was to show Irl games but included contract to show x amount of LOI games. No separate contract for LOI

topmanamillion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118755377#Comment_118755377

Move away from RTE to who though? It`s RTE or no live TV games at all. That's the choice. There are other sports as well that will legitimately be looking for that same spot. I don`t buy the "If football is on every Friday night, people will watch it" comment. The days of state broadcasters are numbered. Personally, I stream most of my content now. It would be out of the ordinary for me to turn on RTE so even if every RTE ad was about a LOI match I wouldn`t see them and I`m assuming most are like me. There`s so much choice out there now with streaming the days of being stuck watching whatever RTE or any TV station decides to put on are long gone.

As for the 6 figure sum Dan McDonnell covers it here -

"Similarly, the contract with main broadcast partner RTÉ also includes the rights for two senior international friendlies and women's international matches so clubs are now working off the belief that the value of the LOI element also comes in at around €250,000."

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/daniel-mcdonnell-15m-target-shows-road-that-league-must-travel-38519142.html

irishmanmick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756869#Comment_118756869

You've answered your own question there, move away to LOITV as sole broadcaster. I'm absolutely in the same boat as you regarding watching TV. But I do watch sports events on TV, that's where you don't see RTE doing advertisement. If you watch a watch on Sky, they give you a run down of the matches they are showing over the weekend about 15 times. RTE could advertise games at the many sports events they do broadcast, it's basically the same target market. I watch GAA / Rugby / Football all on RTE. Also, they don't advertise the games on their social media, something which I follow (although in fairness, they have been doing much better on that front lately).

The €250k is a value attributed to a part of a contract, tied into the deal that allows RTE to broadcast Ireland games. It's not a separate payment of €250k for the LOI games. If the Ireland games were not there then RTE would not be paying €250k for LOI games. RTE show 15 games a season, that would be over €16k per game for the rights to broadcast an individual match. No chance they are paying that, and Neil O'R confirms as much in his article saying clubs don't get anything for games.

Definitely disagree on the habit forming though, I grew up watching Italian football on Channel 4 cos they had a highlight show on the same time every week. Knew all the players & teams. Watched Inter play Liverpool last night, and didn't know majority of Inter players. No chance I could name all clubs in the league.

topmanamillion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118757868#Comment_118757868

Show me a semi-decent European league that jettisoned any sort of a live TV deal in favour of a 100% online streaming service locked behind a paywall? It doesn`t exist because even a league with as big of a draw as the EPL wouldn`t do something as daft as that, taking all the risk on themselves in an area they have zero knowledge of. They`d leave that up to the TV companies and pocket their guaranteed cheque every year. There`s also a serious oxymoron in trying to broaden the appeal of the league by taking it off free to air and locking it behind a paywall.

I`m unsure what point your trying to make in this next bit. Of course RTE wouldn`t show LOI games or give 250k towards the league if it wasn`t for the Ireland games. Fact is League and international rights are bundled so they have to and they do. It costs money to run the league, the 250k contributes to those costs. Now in theory each club could be given 16k each year and we could all say that's TV money and each game RTE shows is worth 16k to the clubs shown but it would be fairly pointless as clubs would probably have to give it back to cover ref costs and the likes. It`s also more equitable that it benefits all clubs rather than a select few.

Neil O'Riordan is a good journalist but he also works for a tabloid newspaper and he`s trying to sell papers in a very competitive market. "Clubs get nothing apart from the 250k RTE pay to the FAI as part of the bundled International/league deal which is used to cover costs in the league" doesn't have the same ring as clubs get no TV money which is technically true but a bit disingenuous and more likely to rile up LOI fans so they spread word of his column on social media and places like Boards.ie.

I presume we`re talking about Serie A mid 90s or earlier when it was comparable with the current EPL as the leading league in the world and a destination for super stars. You were following the best league and players in the world playing out of decent stadiums in-front of bumper crowds. Easy to form a habit of watching that. The reason you lost interest is is because it`s a pale comparison to its heyday not because Channel 4 stopped doing a weekly highlights show. No comparison to be made with the LOI and by that logic the Highlights show on LOITV should be an international phenomenon because its going to be on every week at the same time.

irishmanmick

@topmanamillion

The premier league has been behind a paywall for 20 years and it doesn't seem to have done too badly. If people want it enough they will pay for it. Your issue must be that no other league has done it via a streaming service. You posted above that the days of traditional TV stations are numbered & streaming is the future. This thread is full of oxymorons now.

You said that the LOI rights is worth €250K citing Dan McDonell's article from 2019. RTE pay x amount for the Ireland games & as part of the deal FAI make them show x amount of LOI games. They would happily pay the same amount of money and not have to show LOI games. The FAI use €250k of said deal to contribute to running the league, given that exactly what a football association should do. Revenues can be earned from LOITV by clubs for these games instead. I'm not taking billion dollar TV deals, but they are getting nothing now, no matter how it's dressed up. If the LOI / FAI continued to build the LOITV brand it could bring in revenues they currently don't get. 

If you take a look at the last Extratime.com attendance report, between 19 LOI clubs there is an average attendance of approx. 25,000 fans for all the clubs in total. Last report was pre-covid but it seems attendances are on the up anyway. If you managed to convince 50% of that number to purchase a season pass for €100 (all games – which I think is very reasonable), 12,500 * 100 = 1,250,000. I’m not saying this will happen overnight but surely is a realistic target is done correctly over few years. €1.25m less running costs of service and the clubs will still be miles ahead of what they currently get. 

Don’t want to get into argument of habit building, I was like 10 watching Serie A highlights. It had nothing to do with it being the best league, I didn’t know anything about standards. I watched it cos it was a football show on TV. It could have been the Scottish or German league and I wouldn’t have known any better. I think watching things regularly builds habits, you don’t. We agree to disagree on that (but how else can we explain Eastenders 😉)  

Ferris_Bueller

It's a bit of a chicken and egg scenario with the LOI and a TV deal. Generally I'm a semi-believer in if they show it regularly on RTE or TG4 or whatever channel that eventually the viewing figures will go up. I'm far from a GAA fan but the odd weekend if I am at home and flicking through the channels I will leave it on, can't imagine I am alone in that. Whether we would ever get viewing figures big enough to justify showing it every week I'm not sure.

I think going solo with the streaming would potentially be a terrible move, I would say disastrous but it doesn't get too much worse than the present. You are going to find it very hard to attract fans if they have to pay for a stream, you are preaching to the converted with a paid streaming service. I've been a LOI for 20 years nearly and I haven't paid for a streamed league game since the 2020 campaign when I bought a season pass, last season I didn't bother. I don't think LOITV is a bad thing but that should not be our sole way of watching games on TV/screen.

irishmanmick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118759485#Comment_118759485

Interesting, what's your issue with streaming games? I mean WatchLOI was a terrible service, no replays, co-comms etc. LOITV is better without being a full TV production. Like, if it was a full TV production like a Sky Sports match would you have an issue with it being a stream then?

The service has improved massively since WatchLOI with plenty of space to improve still. If the production was better would you be willing to pay then? Or just not interested in paying to watch LOI on TV?

I'm the same as you with sports, if there is sport on the TV I'll watch it. Half follow Leinster from seeing URC games on tele, but will always watch hurling matches however is playing.

Patrick2010

Why would regular attenders at LOI games be interested in buying a season pass to LOITV when they'll probably be at most of the home games?

I've a season ticket for Tallaght but I'll buy a pass to watch most of Rovers away games.

artanevilla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118761944#Comment_118761944

I'd likely buy one even though I'd attend most home and away matches. Useful for watching back games or watching other teams fixtures etc.

Remember the season pass covered all games, not just your own teams.

I'm not going to pay 7 euro to watch Pats Drogheda but I might turn it on on a Friday evening if my team aren't playing.

irishmanmick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118761944#Comment_118761944

Same boat as me. I'll be at Bohs home games but want it for away games. 18 away games at €7 a game is more than a €100 season pass (€126) . So it would make sense for you to buy a season pass. Most weekends there is 1 game on the Sat, give you access to this too.

TBH, I'd pay a premium on the away games to get a season pass for all games. I think €150 would be a fair price. includes access to all games. But judging by many on here and other places might be a bit steep for many.

I think if they did a bundle deal with your season ticket / membership, extra €100 to include season pass.

These are the things they need to explore. I don't want to go back to the days of watching extratime.com text updates for away matches.

topmanamillion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118759339#Comment_118759339

The premier league is a behemoth with a bidding war every time its TV rights go out to tender, no comparison to the LOI.

The league is a live event best enjoyed at the games. To go on TV you need polished stadiums and capacity crowds on a regular basis. Most grounds haven`t got proper TV gantry's or any of the facilities needed for TV. Instead its cameraman suspended 50 feet in the air on cherry pickers and chip-vans behind goals. Watching some games on TV only serves to reinforce a stereotype of the league and probably does more harm than good.

"If people want it enough they will pay for it."

No, they wont, they`ll illegally stream or not bother. The WatchLOI games are showing up on dodgy boxes and IPTV all the time.

TV companies/general public aren`t interested in the LOI apart from a few pockets around the country and they are not interested in paying to watch it going by the WatchLOI figures when from 2020 when it had the definition of a captive audience.

Shels v Pats on the opening night averaged 52,000 on live TV. That game had the draw of a full house and Duffs first competitive game in senior management. He`d been doing interviews with media for weeks beforehand so the game was very well advertised.

The following week Derry and Shams was the live game. An average audience of 21,000 for a game with Jack Byrne and a Derry side with a lot of hype around them. A re-run of Fr.Ted will do about 4 times that. And you think locking games behind a pay-wall will improve those numbers?

They are back of a match box numbers if ever I saw them. Firstly, the league weekly attendance is nowhere near 25,000 its about 14,000 based on those Extratime.com figures. Also. clubs don`t want season passes as they are afraid it will hit them at the gate. So they`d be getting E100 and losing multiples off that on match nights from that person sitting at home.

In 2020, during the height of lockdown when there were no - live events, cinemas, pubs, restaurants, foreign trips and all the leagues match goers were siting at home - 4,700 bought a season pass, 6,000 bought match passes and another 6,000 season ticket holders were given it free. That's a total of 11,000 people with season passes and 6,000 individual match passes (not 6,000 people remember, presumably some people bought multiple passes).

So the league couldn`t even sell the pass to all its match goers never mind the general public during a lockdown but its going to make E1.25 million off of streaming?

srfc d16

I really don't understand why they don't offer a monthly pass for it like most other streaming services. Set up your monthly payment for x amount of money. You get access to LOITV for the month of your subscription. If Spotify, Netflix, Prime, Patreon etc. all use this process it's fair to assume it is industry standard to do it in this way.

Would you use netflix if every time you wanted to watch a show you had to take out your card to make payment? It is an extra obstacle that will prevent people using your service.

I would charge €20 per month. Would be around 160 per year or you can just take it out while on holiday and cancel when you get home if you are a home and away attendee. Some people, myself included, will watch games involving other teams on night that my team isn't playing. Increases viewership and exposure for advertising. I will not pay €7 for a game not involving my team but if I have the sub already paid for the month there is a good chance I will stick it on.

Another way of creating income would be sell the pre roll advertising to a company instead of having an ad for the league that you obviously already know about there. This may be a contractual issue with Airtricity but if not they should be sold.

artanevilla

One of the arguments is that they fear it will stop people going to the games, which means they don't know their market at all.

tastyt

We are making the same mistake again though lads , streaming is selling the league to the people who already watch it . Yes 100% it’s a good idea and a great service for fans especially to see their teams away games .

But it absolutely is no replacement for the national broadcaster when it comes to growing the profile and gaining interest . If it’s tough enough to get people watching games as a casual fan on rte Friday nights at 7:30 you have absolutely no chance of these people going looking for it behind a pay wall online

it’s totally letting the national media off the hook when the fai should be constantly in their ear

srfc d16

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118763745#Comment_118763745

I get what you are saying and selling the league is important but if they had gone about the LOI tv in a better way they would have more subscribers from within the hardcore that they could use as evidence when approaching the broadcasters to show that there is an audience for the product.

You can want national tv exposure and a good streaming service at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive in fact I would argue that they are complimentary

irishmanmick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118763525#Comment_118763525

No future in streaming, no one watches games on terrestrial tv when they are on. Why even bother then. Complete lack of ambition here, opinions like this in the league & FAI are exactly why we are where we are.

The premier league is a behemoth NOW. It didn't start that way.

They are not matchbox figures, they are the sum of average attendance for each club as per Extratime.com. The av. weekly attendance of league is around 14,000 cos half the teams are away each week.

10,700 season passes were sold year 1 (nobody got them for free, you had to purchase a ST/Mem & got it in leui of going to games). Hit that target again at €100 per season pass, it's over a million in revenues.

Nobody watches LOI games for the stadia, I don't care if there is a chip fan behind the goal. Wouldn't stop any LOI fan

Agree with @artanevilla clubs don't know their market if they think any LOI fan will skip going to game over watching it on TV.

irishmanmick

@srfc d16 Yeah, exploring different revenue models is a great idea. Absolutely need to maximise revenue within the core LOI support. Selling ads during streams also another idea someone mentioned. Spent so much time looking at terrible images of a single sponsor during halftime breaks

Pawwed Rig

The bigger issue for me is that if I am watching a match as a neutral I wanna be able to switch to another match if the one I am watching is heading for a dreary nil nil. Not gonna spend another €7 to do that but would happily have paid the €200 or whatever to have them all available on demand

howiya

The idea that people will pay a couple of hundred quid for a season pass is fanciful judging by the amount of rovers and bohs fans on social media that won't pay the €7 for tonight's game.

artanevilla

Looking forward to watching Young Sheldon tonight myself.

Hammer Archer

Tonight's game between UCD and Derry has been postponed because of a waterlogged pitch. Good that it was decided early for the Derry players and fans.

cdeb

A postponement unfortunately echoed in the front cover of the match programme for the game!!

https://www.ucdfc.ie/programme?pgid=kzzng86o-885a32f4-8600-47fc-a304-05233f68a8ee

Hammer Archer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118768231#Comment_118768231

Someone moved the fcukin wheelbarrow, didn't they?

johnnyryan89

Treatys home game against Longford also postponed. Feel for the Longford fans that probably found out a half hour before kick off when they arrived for the game. It's bad enough at anytime but with the price of fuel ATM it's even worse.

Cape Clear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118769953#Comment_118769953

Is that the 3rd game that has been cancelled/moved from the Market's field this season. 4 weeks into the season and Longford have only played one game.

tastyt

Shambles again from treaty

And they wonder why they can’t get the Limerick public behind a league of Ireland side

Oat23

Sligo Rovers haven't even left 3rd gear and are 2 up. The Drogs defense is a bit of a shambles.

Nando Pijnacker is quality.