Greatest League in the World 2024 [new thread available]

eire4

Zebra3 wrote: »

Being honest, if they got legal advice that it would be hard to prove, then yes.

Well I don't know about professional football clubs but I would not think highly of any lawyer who told me go ahead and do something illegal because it would be hard to prove. No thanks.

Liberta Per Gli Ultra

hardybuck wrote: »

Desmond is coming in effectively as a benevolent donor.

A bit like when Gordon Gekko saved Bluestar.

In fairness to Desmond, he was known for his benevolence towards Charlie Haughey in the 80s and 90s.

Annd9

topmanamillion wrote: »

Shams have gone it alone and Bohs are piggy backing off of Kevins'.

.

Regarding this set up between the big schoolboy clubs and loi teams . How long is this destined to last ? Are the schoolboy clubs happy with this arrangement ?

I see both Shamrock Rovers and Shelbourne have gone it alone in this regard with broadstone and Shels basically owning the Aul . Have other clubs (Bohs ,pats etc) any backup plan if the agreement falls apart ? Although I'm not sure how heavily reliant pats are on players coming in from the underage feeder clubs .

hardybuck

Annd9 wrote: »

Regarding this set up between the big schoolboy clubs and loi teams . How long is this destined to last ? Are the schoolboy clubs happy with this arrangement ?

I see both Shamrock Rovers and Shelbourne have gone it alone in this regard with broadstone and Shels basically owning the Aul . Have other clubs (Bohs ,pats etc) any backup plan if the agreement falls apart ? Although I'm not sure how heavily reliant pats are on players coming in from the underage feeder clubs .

If it's done well it works for all parties. The likes of Kevin's will benefit from having a pathway for their players to play LOI, national underage leagues, and hopefully all the way to international level. However the odd year in the national underage leagues (U13, U15, U17) etc. is a disaster.

The national leagues are generally a good idea though. Years ago you'd have lads from all parts of the country joining Dublin clubs to play at the best possible standard and maybe catch the eye of a scout.

However in my area (Waterford) the lads who are good enough to make it over the years have stayed at home and the lads who weren't quite at that level did the 4 hour weekly trips to play schoolboy which is insane when you think about it.

grayzer75

Annd9 wrote: »

Regarding this set up between the big schoolboy clubs and loi teams . How long is this destined to last ? Are the schoolboy clubs happy with this arrangement ?

I see both Shamrock Rovers and Shelbourne have gone it alone in this regard with broadstone and Shels basically owning the Aul . Have other clubs (Bohs ,pats etc) any backup plan if the agreement falls apart ? Although I'm not sure how heavily reliant pats are on players coming in from the underage feeder clubs .

On the flip side, what do Shels or Rovers do if they don't generate income from these academies - particularly Rovers, are they gonna keep throwing money at it indefinitely?

Bohs and Pats have had very strong underage teams, their link ups with local clubs seems to work for all parties involved so why throw money at an academy?

I spoke to a Brentford fan recently and he told me that the best thing the club did financially was to scrap their academy as it was just draining resources.

ArmaniJeanss

Zebra3 wrote: »

Being honest, if they got legal advice that it would be hard to prove, then yes.

The player would have to be an almost once-in-a-generation talent for a club to take that risk and expense though. The club would have to believe that he has much more than the normal low percentage chance of 'making it'.

FIFA don't really have to 'prove' wrongdoing - it's more of a balance of probability thing.

And the expense - instead of being able to cheaply farm the player (a room in a digs house, organise his education), you'd have to pay to move & house an entire family including multiple brothers and sisters and provide for all their educations, jobs for the parents etc.
How many young Irish players will be considered to be worth that extra investment when there's young UK players of similar ability?

johnnyryan89

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

And the expense - instead of being able to cheaply farm the player (a room in a digs house, organise his education), you'd have to pay to move & house an entire family including multiple brothers and sisters and provide for all their educations, jobs for the parents etc.
How many young Irish players will be considered to be worth that extra investment when there's young UK players of similar ability?

And when a club has to go through that much effort why would they be doing it for an Irish player when there's plenty of options out there. But you'll definitely get some families that will take the chance and relocate themselves, especially those that moved here from say African countries or Eastern Europe.

Like hopefully now we see some of the talented teenagers that leave Ireland at 16 actually getting chances in the league and playing senior competitive. What did Bazunu play like six games and Man City bought him for 400k was it?

topmanamillion

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

And the expense - instead of being able to cheaply farm the player (a room in a digs house, organise his education), you'd have to pay to move & house an entire family including multiple brothers and sisters and provide for all their educations, jobs for the parents etc.
How many young Irish players will be considered to be worth that extra investment when there's young UK players of similar ability?

The expense really isn't that big of an issue for any of the English clubs still running academies. Anthony stokes cost Arsenal about 500k when he was 16 between the club buying his family a house in London and employing his father at the club.

I just don't see this Shangri-la moment for the LOI from Brexit where top Irish talent will all be forced to stay at home. The infrastructure simply isn't there to take advantage.

English clubs have the resources and clout to find a way around any FIFA rulings. Either by securing another exemption or by farming young players out to feeder clubs.

Best case scenario is the likes of Dan Cleary or Simon Madden stay here and never get a few years chasing a dream in England before being found out to be not good enough to have a top level career.

Annd9

grayzer75 wrote: »

On the flip side, what do Shels or Rovers do if they don't generate income from these academies - particularly Rovers, are they gonna keep throwing money at it indefinitely?

Bohs and Pats have had very strong underage teams, their link ups with local clubs seems to work for all parties involved so why throw money at an academy?

I spoke to a Brentford fan recently and he told me that the best thing the club did financially was to scrap their academy as it was just draining resources.

My question is has there been an agreement for how long this will last with the underage clubs ? I see great benefits with it as seen with Bohs in particular .

The only concern I have is the schoolboy teams might get a bit pissed if they feel they're missing out on € with any big moves but thats to be expected .

Regarding the academies , so do Brentford have no underage teams at all or just no central base for underage teams ?

I personally think it's great that Rovers and Shels have somewhere all their teams play from . For Shels both their boys and girls play in the Aul and I'm pretty sure they have teams at every age group so makes sense having one location . Surely renting pitches for matches and training can't be cheaper in the long run ? I know broadstone cost a bit but again you would think it evens itself out over the years .

grayzer75

Annd9 wrote: »

My question is has there been an agreement for how long this will last with the underage clubs ? I see great benefits with it as seen with Bohs in particular .

The only concern I have is the schoolboy teams might get a bit pissed if they feel they're missing out on € with any big moves but thats to be expected .

Regarding the academies , so do Brentford have no underage teams at all or just no central base for underage teams ?

I personally think it's great that Rovers and Shels have somewhere all their teams play from . For Shels both their boys and girls play in the Aul and I'm pretty sure they have teams at every age group so makes sense having one location . Surely renting pitches for matches and training can't be cheaper in the long run ? I know broadstone cost a bit but again you would think it evens itself out over the years .

I'm not sure what the agreements are with the local clubs.

I believe in Brentford's case they decided they couldn't compete with the other academies near them so decided not to waste anymore money. They have started picking up 16-18 year old players released by premier league academies and bringing them through their reserves onto the first team.

Gavin "shels"

Annd9 wrote: »

I see both Shamrock Rovers and Shelbourne have gone it alone in this regard with broadstone and Shels basically owning the Aul . Have other clubs (Bohs ,pats etc) any backup plan if the agreement falls apart ? Although I'm not sure how heavily reliant pats are on players coming in from the underage feeder clubs .

If only Shels owned the AUL :pac: they pay a fair whack as far as I know for renting pitches for the senior team for training, underage/academy too.

Shels are very interlinked across the teams/academy, there's academy & women's teams people on the Board of Directors, etc...

Annd9

Gavin shels wrote: »

If only Shels owned the AUL :pac: they pay a fair whack as far as I know for renting pitches for the senior team for training, underage/academy too.

Shels are very interlinked across the teams/academy, there's academy & women's teams people on the Board of Directors, etc...

I'd imagine it's not cheap but at least you have a base to work from , do Shels have any stake at all in the Aul ? Pretty sure boys and girls dressing rooms were just built up there specifically for them .

Annd9

grayzer75 wrote: »

I'm not sure what the agreements are with the local clubs.

I believe in Brentford's case they decided they couldn't compete with the other academies near them so decided not to waste anymore money. They have started picking up 16-18 year old players released by premier league academies and bringing them through their reserves onto the first team.

That's how it was here until very recently u21s, reserve's then 1st team so we will see how the academy setups get on in the next few years . Hopefully they work out we need kids staying a bit longer to develop as young adults before they head off if good enough.

joeysoap

A few years ago Niall Quinn said Sunderland paid £29m in wages to players who would never play for Sunderland. I assumed at an academy. Didn’t Chelsea get fined for poaching Leeds academy players a few years ago. I think junior clubs being feeder clubs for loi clubs is good for everyone. I think Dundalk are linked to Malahide.

hardybuck

joeysoap wrote: »

A few years ago Niall Quinn said Sunderland paid £29m in wages to players who would never play for Sunderland. I assumed at an academy. Didn’t Chelsea get fined for poaching Leeds academy players a few years ago. I think junior clubs being feeder clubs for loi clubs is good for everyone. I think Dundalk are linked to Malahide.

Vinny Perth connection?

joeysoap

never thought of that. So that door closes. There’s one young player ( came on against rovers) who transferred from malahide. I think hes Ireland underage

topmanamillion

Annd9 wrote: »

My question is has there been an agreement for how long this will last with the underage clubs ? I see great benefits with it as seen with Bohs in particular .

The only concern I have is the schoolboy teams might get a bit pissed if they feel they're missing out on € with any big moves but thats to be expected .

When the underage teams came in a few years ago (a directive from UEFA) the FAI blocked the likes of Kevins and Joeys from entering a side because they said Dublin was well enough served and the idea was LOI clubs would develop players on a national basis.

There was plenty of p1ssing and moaning from the likes of Kevins` to the point where they even looked into sticking a side in the First Division so they could get into the underage leagues.

Joeys essentially took over Bray, a Joeys money man now owns Bray and the "Bray" underage sides play in Joeys colours with an SJB academy badge on their shirts.

To answer your question on how long it lasts in its current set up. Who knows. Could be its a longterm thing, could be a host of clubs cave under the pressure of running 5 teams on a national basis with no gate receipts and a few schoolboy clubs step in and take over the under age leagues.

Gavin "shels"

Annd9 wrote: »

I'd imagine it's not cheap but at least you have a base to work from , do Shels have any stake at all in the Aul ? Pretty sure boys and girls dressing rooms were just built up there specifically for them .

Don't believe there is any stake - Shels do have some of their own facilities up there afaik.

joeysoap

Like climate change , it affects us all

Time to tell the big conglomerates to take a hike. Any bets if this happens it’ll be €25 to view?
Per match

https://news.sky.com/story/top-english-clubs-in-bombshell-talks-to-join-european-premier-league-12109175

topmanamillion

joeysoap wrote: »

Like climate change , it affects us all

Time to tell the big conglomerates to take a hike. Any bets if this happens it’ll be €25 to view?
Per match

https://news.sky.com/story/top-english-clubs-in-bombshell-talks-to-join-european-premier-league-12109175

Probably just a ploy to bend UEFA over a barrel and guarantee the big boys CL places every year while at the same time shutting the door on the CL to the peasants of Europe.

dreamers75

Just blow it up lads.

https://twitter.com/paulohehir/status/1318571256862703619


PPG to sort it.

Liberta Per Gli Ultra

UEFA to cut prize money over next five seasons (RTE)

Champions League and Europa League prize money will be cut over the next five seasons as European football's governing body UEFA grapples with the financial impact of the Covid-19 pandemic, The Times has reported.

pgj2015

joeysoap wrote: »

Like climate change , it affects us all

Time to tell the big conglomerates to take a hike. Any bets if this happens it’ll be €25 to view?
Per match

https://news.sky.com/story/top-english-clubs-in-bombshell-talks-to-join-european-premier-league-12109175

I would never pay to watch a game on tv, soccer, gaelic whatever. I would rather never watch any football on tv if that happened. motd would be ok along with going to watch LOI games.

BonnieSituation

joeysoap wrote: »

Like climate change , it affects us all

Time to tell the big conglomerates to take a hike. Any bets if this happens it’ll be €25 to view?
Per match

https://news.sky.com/story/top-english-clubs-in-bombshell-talks-to-join-european-premier-league-12109175

I'll be watching as much of this as I do the Champions League (after the LOI interest ends) ie. feck all.

European soccer ate itself long ago, this is just the last gorge before the rectal explosion.

Rather looking forward to it tbh.

I think the only game of any sport I have ever paid to watch ever was, as far as I recall, Pats v some Icelandic team back in 2011 (I will stand corrected) where it was being streamed for something like 4 quid.

dreamers75

No more gaff parties


https://twitter.com/McDonnellDan/status/1318946582511964162

joeysoap

Should have said that a month ago. Don’t fulfill a fixture, lose the points.

dundalkfc10

The FAI have not said one thing on social media about Dundalks game tonight.

If ever a time was to try promote the LOI and they couldn't care less

Oat23

It's a bit weird that BT are putting Dundalk's game on BT 1 tonight. Arsenal are on BT 2 and Rangers are on BT 3.

Top billing for the Town. :pac:

davycc

Good luck Dundalk I'll be giving you a short..
You have a great potential first game.
Hope you hammer those Norway dudes ,.!

joeysoap

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

The FAI have not said one thing on social media about Dundalks game tonight.

If ever a time was to try promote the LOI and they couldn't care less

If it was the hooped minions of beelzebub the FAI would be all over it.

I really don’t know how the FAI could have handled it better but the game against Arsenal is their 6th match 17 days. And their match against Rapid their 8th in 23. Not ideal. Part of the problem was postponed matches against Derry and Pats.

Dillonb3

Dundalk team in, only major surprise is Mountney so going defensive from the looks of things

https://twitter.com/DundalkFC/status/1319301510182932487

joeysoap

Between first team and subs only Nathan Oduwa ( who went off against Bohs) and Jimmy Corcoran (3rd goalkeeper) missing.

ionadnapokot

Where is McEleney?

davycc

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Where is McEleney?

On the bench sadly.

Dillonb3

Mon the town!!! well worked goal

Dr. Bre

Cracking goal

Dillonb3

Not playing too bad here, only worry is we're relying on Duffy and Mountney to keep covering for Leahy and Gannon...can't see them doing that for the full game.

Hoban is giving there shaky defense a few scares

davycc

A cracker from Dundalk fill your boots we want 3!!!

kksaints

Good stuff from Dundalk so far. Hope they can keep it going for the second half.

PTH2009

Let's hope Dundalk use up all there energy tonight and we ambush them Sunday

Tbh Waterford don't have the players

Ferris_Bueller

Doing well out there. Great goal and Hobans unlucky to be ruled out. Feel like they will struggle to keep Molde out but not impossible for them to score again.

topmanamillion

Molde have turned it up a few gears.
Seems inevitable they'll score soon.

Dillonb3

Molde going up the gears badly need to keep hold of possession for a few mins

topmanamillion

Was coming a long time. Dundalk will do well to hang on to the point, being beaten all over the pitch since half time.

Dillonb3

Too many dropping into defense when they have the ball, leaving midfield completely open

Edit: Dundalk players starting to look very tired all over

Zebra3

If ever the phrase "a game of two halves" could be applied to a match....

Dundalk will need more of that first half performance if they're going to get anything from the group.

The_Kew_Tour

To be here is a achievement in itself. But once Molde up the gears Dundalk had no answer.

joeysoap

Hoban’s goal very unlucky to be ruled out, but in 50:50 situation you can expect that in Europe. I thought the referee had a good game but in a fifty/fifty situation I’m not convinced you should have Finnish referee where a Norwegian side is playing. Molde deserved their win for their 2nd half performance. Matches catching up on Dundalk who looked ok in the first but looked tired in the second..

joeysoap

PTH2009 wrote: »

Let's hope Dundalk use up all there energy tonight and we ambush them Sunday

Tbh Waterford don't have the players

You’d be slaughtered in Europe


I’m not being fair. Maybe Waterford would do well Europe. Two extra points against Dundalk, one point against Finn Harps and one point against Shels, and your in the driving seat.

TV only see the ‘glamour’ matches ie cutting straight to the Arsenal match. Unfortunately the LOI don’t work like that. Good interview with Filippo


https://youtu.be/fEq9NG90exA

PTH2009

joeysoap wrote: »

You’d be slaughtered in Europe

yeah more than likely but €€€ for the club and it would be great after what happened in 2018/19

4th doesn't guarantee Europe and its crazy this season with so many teams in contention too finish there.