Housing Crisis and Objections

At the moment we have a huge housing crisis resulting in ridiculously high rents and full time working couples not been able to afford to buy a home.

The government appear to be getting a lot of the blame for this with the whole voting for “change” that has become popular.

Yet, almost every single new development planned gets delayed badly by objections. To the point were I’ve literally seen people concerned that some old trees are going to be cut down or a football pitch built over. This is happening all over the country.

Then we have people on the waiting list for social housing that only want to live in a particular area. Usually a very in demand area as well.

We all want to moan about housing but nobody wants houses built near them! It’s happening everywhere too so no need to get into individual cases.

We’re contributing to the housing crisis ourselves as much as the government that we just voted out for not getting houses built.

Wesser

Just because there is a housing crisis doesnt mean we shouldn't plan things to look nice and function well. Some monstrosities in dublin built over the years that we will be looking at for 100 years or so. Housing crisis problem is probably going to last for years. No quick solutions there abd more people keep coming into the country as its a great place to live. In the meantime while we are waiting it to alleviate a little we should still try to get things nice.

Wesser

Wesser wrote: »

Just because there is a housing crisis doesnt mean we shouldn't plan things to look nice and function well. Some monstrosities in dublin built over the years that we will be looking at for 100 years or so. Housing crisis problem is probably going to last for years. No quick solutions there abd more people keep coming into the country as its a great place to live. In the meantime while we are waiting it to alleviate a little we should still try to get things nice.

I get your point, but people literally voted a government out of power because they want houses. The party they are mainly voting for are the party claiming to build the most amount of houses, no matter how unrealistic.

Yet I keep hearing about objections every time a development is planned.

We either want the houses or want to spend years first trying to get everything in place before building.

beauf

...act in haste, repent at leisure...

All those poor quality houses and apartments people complain about in bad poorly serviced locations were built the last time we decided planning didn't matter.

We have largely created this crisis. We haven't removed the things causing it this time either.

Idbatterim

listen, people can talk about nimbies all they like. They arent making the planning decisions at the end of the day... it is appalling planning policies that have created this farce. But you have to remember, the farce to us, is what many other homeowners etc want... Dont build near me etc , this is obviously not just an irish problem. Take a read of this great article! The absoplute irony I find is, the workers should pay for everything, live in **** accomodation and a **** commute and many of the objectors are living in social housing or housing both for a pittance decades ago and living off the working people, who have a **** quality of life! Its so ****ed up, its inconceivable!

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/sleepout-to-be-held-outside-south-dublin-co-co-to-protest-rise-in-council-housing-rents-977430.html

read about "de vulneable" here claiming they shouldnt pay an extra E3 a week for their massively subsidies housing! How the hell are they vulnerable? near free accomodation, guaranteed income from you and I every week. They have some gall these parasites! What are the people sharing bedrooms and paying E400 a month classed as? the elite?

i was over in that states, and they would have classed me left wing there, the people I spoke too! but I couldnt give a toss about these entitled spongers, and hiding behind the "vulneable" free pass, pass Go on Wednesday and collect at least €203...

Idbatterim

Wesser wrote: »

Just because there is a housing crisis doesnt mean we shouldn't plan things to look nice and function well. Some monstrosities in dublin built over the years that we will be looking at for 100 years or so. Housing crisis problem is probably going to last for years. No quick solutions there abd more people keep coming into the country as its a great place to live. In the meantime while we are waiting it to alleviate a little we should still try to get things nice.

a quick solution to increase supply, would be to address the farcically low densities!

Greyfox

beauf wrote: »

...act in haste, repent at leisure...

All those poor quality houses and apartments people complain about in bad poorly serviced locations were built the last time we decided planning didn't matter.

Of course planning matters, the problem is were listening to lots of really stupid objections and giving local people way too much power. We need to build loads of new homes and we need to start building up, some of the people blocking the way of this happening are sc*m.

smurgen

Legislation should be changed to tackle the objections process.nimbyism needs to be tackled head on. Just because you overpaid for your house doesn't mean you have a right to the space outside it's boundaries.society does not guarantee the value of your asset nor should it.

dxhound2005

The good news is that there are lots of empty houses which already got built, objections or no objections. Using even a small percentage of these will be a quicker solution. Also there are thousands of houses on the market at cheap prices away from Dublin. Lots of private buyers from Dublin have moved to the country for the cheaper prices. Their counterparts who cannot afford this solution, can have these properties as social housing.

The numbers from the Property Tax stats, page 13, and the 2016 Census numbers will make it clear to anyone that there is not a crisis of accommodation in this country. Along with a look at properties for sale. The crisis in Dublin is the same crisis as exists in cities everywhere, very high property prices and very high rents.

247,000 properties in the hands of people who pay tax on just two properties. So not Vulture funds. 183,000 vacant properties in the Census. Plenty of holiday homes which could be used if there ever is a crisis.


https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/documents/statistics/lpt/local-property-tax-2019.pdf

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp1hii/cp1hii/

Idbatterim

smurgen wrote: »

Legislation should be changed to tackle the objections process.nimbyism needs to be tackled head on. Just because you overpaid for your house doesn't mean you have a right to the space outside it's boundaries.society does not guarantee the value of your asset nor should it.

I'd have more sympathy for people that over paid! how many are living in social housing or inherited it or bought it for a pittance decades ago! They have no problem using these poor workers now, as cash cows! Morally corrupt!

major interest

Vested interests play a big role in the problem. Councillors/planners/politicians may agree with the sentiment that a dramatic increase in housing is needed but then baulk at putting into practice when said housing is strongly opposed by a minority of locals.

The same locals will not be shy in letting their opposition be known and apply pressure to those with decision making power. It is often the case that a majority of locals will be in favour. However, those in support rarely make as much noise as those in opposition and projects end up being canned.

Idbatterim

major interest wrote: »

Vested interests play a big role in the problem. Councillors/planners/politicians may agree with the sentiment that a dramatic increase in housing is needed but then baulk at putting into practice when said housing is strongly opposed by a minority of locals.

The same locals will not be shy in letting their opposition be known and apply pressure to those with decision making power. It is often the case that a majority of locals will be in favour. However, those in support rarely make as much noise as those in opposition and projects end up being canned.

yeah, have read so many articles on this subejct recently! the rip off property, is a deliberate construct...

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/a-fall-in-house-prices-should-be-our-goal/

Calhoun

Great article on the very subject, we basically are a big bunch of hypocrites who want to complain but not actually take the steps to alleviate the problem.

This is not confined to housing but also transport.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/columnists/housing-crisis-different-standard-when-its-your-backyard-903219.html

Thelonious Monk

We need public transport, shools, facilities and for areas not to be totally car dependent. We just seem to build housing estates with the notion that everyone will own a car, it's ridiculous. We just can't do anything right here so look forward to more sprawl and traffic jams.

Graces7

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The good news is that there are lots of empty houses which already got built, objections or no objections. Using even a small percentage of these will be a quicker solution. Also there are thousands of houses on the market at cheap prices away from Dublin. Lots of private buyers from Dublin have moved to the country for the cheaper prices. Their counterparts who cannot afford this solution, can have these properties as social housing.

The numbers from the Property Tax stats, page 13, and the 2016 Census numbers will make it clear to anyone that there is not a crisis of accommodation in this country. Along with a look at properties for sale. The crisis in Dublin is the same crisis as exists in cities everywhere, very high property prices and very high rents.

247,000 properties in the hands of people who pay tax on just two properties. So not Vulture funds. 183,000 vacant properties in the Census. Plenty of holiday homes which could be used if there ever is a crisis.

***************************************************
When I was about to be made homeless I went round villages etc, knocking at doors, asking about empty houses, Got very proactive.

The consensus in part is that it is more cost effective and less work to rent out n summer in tourist areas. In one area of Connemara that amounted to over 200 good family homes

The other aspect was re houses left empty permanently. Again I asked, why cannot these be opened up? ( They knew my situation) "oh the families wouldn't like it". shrines? Many holiday homes just lie empty all year too.

smurgen

Difference problem of course but shows how vested interests are using the objections process to their advantage

https://twitter.com/idahocafe/status/1229691482476552192?s=19

shesty

major interest wrote: »

Vested interests play a big role in the problem. Councillors/planners/politicians may agree with the sentiment that a dramatic increase in housing is needed but then baulk at putting into practice when said housing is strongly opposed by a minority of locals.

The same locals will not be shy in letting their opposition be known and apply pressure to those with decision making power. It is often the case that a majority of locals will be in favour. However, those in support rarely make as much noise as those in opposition and projects end up being canned.

I would not say a majority are in favour.We live in a place where big developments are being built locally.Some are still under construction.And right now, before these houses are even occupied, the secondary schools are full to bursting with no more room and three of the most local 4 primary schools have a huge number of portacabins out back, including one that had a brand new building built only 2 years ago.There are waiting lists for everything, you can't get a GP, the 'great local transport links to Dublin' are a prime advertising part of any developer's hoarding- the part they leave out is that you can't get parking in the station, you have to fight your way onto any rush hour train and you can't get on the buses (and the NTA want to reduce the express service frequency).

As someone said recently, we have no problem with new people, but please do something about the existing schools/GPs/local facilities FIRST!!Before dumping thousands more people in on top of the towns.Prime example is the secondary school in the town, which is housed in a building built sometime in the 70s or 80s, and has absolutely no more space for pupils....Dept of Education have been lobbied for years to move it to an agreed new site and there is zero movement on it.Another town up the road has a fantastic new primary school that opened about 18 months ago, replacing an old one -a really big complex for about 800 kids, and it is full, with no space.And every day I drive home past two sites in that village, where construction is going on to expand an estate built last year, and building on another new estate.And there is planning lodged for a further 300 houses out the back of the town.Where are all those people going to send kids to school??

Shouting 'build houses' and blaming the locals when it doesn't happen instantly is not a solution.We are so rubbish at integrated planning in this country, we fail miserably at it, and people are getting annoyed.It is not rocket science.

Thelonious Monk

Can they not just hire Germans or Dutch people or something to plan for us seen as we are incapable of doing it ourselves? Even Spain do things very right in some communities, we are just f*cking useless.

1641

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Can they not just hire Germans or Dutch people or something to plan for us seen as we are incapable of doing it ourselves? Even Spain do things very right in some communities, we are just f*cking useless.

I object to that.

Idbatterim

shesty wrote: »

I would not say a majority are in favour.We live in a place where big developments are being built locally.Some are still under construction.And right now, before these houses are even occupied, the secondary schools are full to bursting with no more room and three of the most local 4 primary schools have a huge number of portacabins out back, including one that had a brand new building built only 2 years ago.There are waiting lists for everything, you can't get a GP, the 'great local transport links to Dublin' are a prime advertising part of any developer's hoarding- the part they leave out is that you can't get parking in the station, you have to fight your way onto any rush hour train and you can't get on the buses (and the NTA want to reduce the express service frequency).

As someone said recently, we have no problem with new people, but please do something about the existing schools/GPs/local facilities FIRST!!Before dumping thousands more people in on top of the towns.Prime example is the secondary school in the town, which is housed in a building built sometime in the 70s or 80s, and has absolutely no more space for pupils....Dept of Education have been lobbied for years to move it to an agreed new site and there is zero movement on it.Another town up the road has a fantastic new primary school that opened about 18 months ago, replacing an old one -a really big complex for about 800 kids, and it is full, with no space.And every day I drive home past two sites in that village, where construction is going on to expand an estate built last year, and building on another new estate.And there is planning lodged for a further 300 houses out the back of the town.Where are all those people going to send kids to school??

Shouting 'build houses' and blaming the locals when it doesn't happen instantly is not a solution.We are so rubbish at integrated planning in this country, we fail miserably at it, and people are getting annoyed.It is not rocket science.

Look, I agree with a lot of this! You hit the nail on the head though particularly at one point, they are totally incapable or proper or expedient planning here! So what do you do? not build the houses until those fools have put in the other facilities, which can take years and maybe even be objected to, by the current locals? The other issue is, they dont resolve issues here, even at a local level, until it hits crisis point. Its a farce, but until people start demaning far better, we are stuck with it for now...

LuckyLloyd

smurgen wrote: »

Legislation should be changed to tackle the objections process.nimbyism needs to be tackled head on. Just because you overpaid for your house doesn't mean you have a right to the space outside it's boundaries.society does not guarantee the value of your asset nor should it.

This is the core of the issue. Lots of hand waving about standards and the environment and a million other things, but it all revolves around the idea that ‘I have a right for the surrounding area to remain just as it was when I bought my house’. You don’t have that right and we need a government that uses blunt legislative force to remove your ability to object on frivolous grounds.

thequarefellow

1641 wrote: »

I object to that.

I dont. Planning in this country is horrendous. How many planners were sanctioned for mistakes made during the Celtic Tiger era, ghost estates etc? That's right, none. When there is no accountability there is no improvement.

major interest

smurgen wrote: »

Difference problem of course but shows how vested interests are using the objections process to their advantage

Didn't know about his background - some neck on that guy to be objecting to the events centre. Essentially looking after his own house and to hell with the benefits it would bring Cork.